EDITORIAL: Russia, Nation of Pigs

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EDITORIAL

Russia, Nation of Pigs

Russian women who drive subway trains don’t dare dream of the day when they might be allowed to sue their employer for sexual harassment or gender discrimination in terms of their working conditions or pay.  That’s because in order to sue about such things you have to first be employed, and a Russian court ruled last week that women aren’t allowed to drive subway trains.  They are, the court said, genetically inferior to men and therefore to be excluded from such professions as might expose themselves or others to physical injury.

Russia is a nation of male chauvanist pigs and, as far as can be seen, it’s proud of it.

Women are also legally banned from being firefighters in Russia. The U.S., by contrast, has 8,500 female firefighters and seems to be getting on quite nicely, thank you — while Russia has one of the most appalling rates of fatality by fire on the planet.  The list of forbidden jobs goes on, and on, and includes:  steelworkers, freight handlers, slaughterhouse workers, oil riggers and divers.  Never mind that Russian men are habitually drunk, violent and sick, living ten years less than Russian women on average.  Women are inferior in Russia, as a matter of law, so they need not apply for any of these positions.

Now think about this:  If Russian courts are willing to legally exclude women from all these professions, how sensitive would they be to discrimination claims from women in jobs they are allowed to perform?  What luck would a woman have charging her employer with a serious crime, like sexual assault?  It seems rather obvious that women need not apply for that sort of relief any more than for a prohibited job.

The Kremlin’s Health and Social Development Ministry explained the state’s position:  “As for women, the slightest possibility of risk, for a woman herself or other people, must be excluded.”  The paternal state, in other words, is protecting women from themselves.

Here’s a forum posting from a young German woman reflecting on her first experience with Russian men last summer (unedited, we apologize for the profanity):

I’ve been to St. Petersburg from June 22nd to July 2nd. The first 6 days I spend at a girl’s place. She was 32 and asked me if I had a problem if a guy from the south of Russia would spend 3 days in her 1 room flat while I was there. I said it’s ok, silly me. Now, this guy was so annoying! So he started to talk sexist bullshit. Some nice examples: Men have to be clever and strong, women have to be pretty. Woman are good for monotonous work and men take all the risk. when a woman turns 50 she’s pretty much old and worthless, whereas a man, well, he’s still a man, if you know what little chimpanze means (I don’t). Women are basically all the same. There are only 5 types of women and little chimpanze can have 2 or 3 types of all of them (he obviously was mistaken with me, hehe). A woman needs a man to protect her (I had no man at hand – that was the reason he thought I’m easy prey). The “unfeminin” women in Europe are the reason for the many (?) gays here. I could hardly believe all this shit he was talking just to make himself feel superior. At the same time that Russian host said I was acting like a man (just because I had an opinion and stood for it).

The comments will ring true to anyone who has spent time in Russia, and a look at the Putin cabinet certainly doesn’t indicate that the Kremlin is taking a stand against sexism.  Three of the last four U.S. Secretaries of State have been female, but Russia has never had a female foreign minister, nor is there a single woman in any significant position in the Kremlin’s inner circle.  The two most outspoken Russian women of the past decade, Galina Starovoitova and Anna Politkovskaya, were both shot and killed.  Russia’s attitude towards homosexuals and blacks, of course, is equally barbaric, if not worse.

To be fair, Russian women themselves contribute mightily to this problem.  Duma Deputy Svetlana Khorkina, a former gymnast who stripped for Playboy before winning her seat, explained the need for women in the Duma like this: “If having more beautiful girls, my colleagues working here will considerably increase the Duma attendance – we’ll consider it our great input.”

But in a society were women are told by courts of law that they are officially inferior and even a danger to themselves, such attitudes on their part are hardly surpising.  And the consequences are lethal. One Russian man murders his wife every forty minutes, acting with impunity because they know that, in effect, their court system supports them, not their victims. As a result, of course, Russia’s divorce rate is among the very worst on the planet.

No society can survive naked barabarism of this kind, which cannot but destroy the very fabric of the Russian family, for very long.

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114 responses to “EDITORIAL: Russia, Nation of Pigs

  1. When Adam plowed and Eve spun, who was a feminist? :-)

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    Did God say it was illegal for Eve to plow? Was Adam a known drunk, wife killer and homicidal manaic?

    Dude, your head needs work. Seriously. Get some help.

    And, by the way, if you believe women are genetically inferior to men in these jobs, do have the courage to at least say so openly. Don’t be a girlie man!

  2. Do nothing. Russians will die off naturally. AIDS, binge drinking, malnutrition, suicide, assassination, homicide, declining birth rate, hate to ethnic minorities which in fact form majority together compared with “clean” Russian people. In fact Russia is gone now- you have to understand that economically Russia is essentially only Moscow and a few other bigger cities.

    Also some criticism towards Larussophobe. I noticed that LR assumes that Putin is a monster and everyone else just trying to do their innocent business. Putin is of course is not an angel, but essentially what he is trying to do is install controlled democracy. I do somehow support his idea, but not a 100%. The problem in Russia is that there is big income discrepancy and money are acquired in a dirty way. There has been no transparency in Russian history from collapse of communism (of course there has been none during Soviet Union times either). Nowadays entire Russian wealth is in a few hands who has money. Putin had tried to change this. But Russian system is totally rotten. There is impossible to change anything. Putin essentially tried to tell that money in Russia is not everything. That you need power too. In this way a lot of oligarchs had to choose – to leave the country or to try get governmental jobs too. That explains Putin’s seek of totalitarian power. But I am afraid that it is quite too late to fix the situation. There is too much corruption, incompetence and despair to do anything. In a way Putin was right to say that collapse of Soviet Union was last century’s worst geopolitical catastrophe. It was a disaster to live in Soviet Union, but at least there was some kind of a direction. Yes, the communist way had a doomsday at the end and I am not even talking about Stalin’s atrocities and other things. But I sincerely believe that people in Russia were happier than now. Freedom didn’t brought much to most people because they had no idea what it means to be free, they were under constant regime all the time in a history. Now it is just plain survivalism in Russia. Most people are ready to do anything literally. There is no moral. Putin failed to reinstall pride in Russian people. Russia desperately needs leadership. Dispensed democracy is not the worst thing what can happen (and what is happening) when a whole nation survival is at steak.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    Evidence of democratic initiatives from Putin is conspicuous by its absence from your post. You might be interested to know that people said quite similar things about Hitler and Stalin in the early days of their dictatorships, too.

    • A “controlled democracy” is an oxymoron. Just for starters how about getting some basic definitions correct.

    • But isn’t Putin himself now the richest Russian, personally? That’s what they’re saying and this guy really loves the money (remember how he was laundering money in Germany in the early 1990s).

  3. 2LR: By no means. But it was Eve who first tasted the apple of knowledge and thereby brought all sins into the world, including homicide, drunkenness, etc.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    So you’re saying women deserve to be oppressed? And Russia is free to do so, even though the civilized world does otherwise?

    • But Mary cancelled out the sins of eve, and remember who the Lord first visited on his resurrection, the other Mary, Magdelene.

      The Lord wiped out all previous sin with his blood.

      If you are a true Orthodox Christian, you would know the Lord judges not by the sex of the person, but by their deeds.

      • There are few true rooshan Orthodox Christians left today. Do not forget that roosha has been a secular nation for almost a century. It was about 1942 when the kremlin allowed the reopening of a few churches because they needed the church’s support [and blessing] for WWII, and they wanted pulpits for their KGB agents.

      • I am not an Orthodox Christian, I am a Jew. :-)

        LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

        We beg to differ. You are an idiot.

  4. It’s the choice of russian people not to let woman to work as an oil rigger. I’ve just made a call to my sister, asking what does she thinks about it? She thinks woman is not an oil rigger by nature, just like man can’t give a birth to a child – even if he could, it would be disgusting. That’s what woman says.

    That’s more morality then “liberty” in such a position. So the good news: there’s still morality in Russia in comparsion to the “civilised” democratic nations. But we don’t wish to teach you, keep marrying your gays and keep going towards the status of civilised democratic nations of germaphrodites.

  5. >>>And Russia is free to do so, even though the civilized world does otherwise?

    Your main problem, LR, is that you think there are “civilized” world and “barbaric” world. What you cannot understand is that there can be several different civilisations on Earth.

  6. Get real, Agrippa, women were treated as unisex chattel in Russia during the Communist years and rural beasts of burden before the Revolution. That they have access to nail polish the past 20 years doesn’t make the dirty work that they do in Russia any less.

    And just why would gays want to marry heterosexuals? Duh?

    Your comments are so bizarre and illiterate that it is like denouncing the mentally handicapped in responding. If your game is to make Rusians look stupid it’s working. If you are pretending to be a Russian you are despicable.

    • Absolute majority of doctors in Russia is women. I don’t know how it happen, but it’s fact. Same picture with school teachers. Two ministers are women. I don’t disclaim, men’s chauvinism exists in our country, but situation is not so dramatically.

      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

      If you won’t respect the rules for commenting, we’ll silence you. You are not allowed to claim “facts” without posting LINKS TO SOURCE MATERIAL. The next time you try to do so, your comment will be deleted. It is not a “fact” simply because YOU say so.

      Your comment is TOTALLY INSANE. Nobody is saying women can’t work in Russia. We are saying a COURT has ruled there jobs women are not allowed to do. Can you point to ONE SINGLE JOB that courts have said MEN cannot do? Of course not.

      Moreover, doctors and teachers are among THE VERY WORST PAID PROFESSIONS in the count. Did you think AT ALL before you spouted your childish gibberish?

      Isn’t it a bit stupid for you, a MAN, to claim women’s situation is not that bad? Did you ever ASK a woman? Your comment merely shows, in fact, how truly barbaric Russian men really are.

      • The majority of doctors and teachers in Russia are women because both of these professions are grossly underpaid in Russia. Likewise, during Soviet times, a doctor was paid less than an industrial worker, and things have not changed all that much since Soviet times. If your average general practitioner was held in a status as prestigious and as highly paid in Russia as they are in North America, women would not predominate in the field of medicine as is the case.

  7. >>>women were treated as unisex chattel in Russia during the Communist years

    Lies. Latynina told you?

    >>>And just why would gays want to marry heterosexuals? Duh?

    No one forces them to do this. “It’s a free country”.

    >>>Your comments are so bizarre and illiterate

    It’s just english is bizarre language to me.

    >>>it is like denouncing the mentally handicapped in responding

    About LR i can say the same. All these insinuations based on most popular myths about Russia make me laugh, just like attemps of each “civilized” fop to foist russians his/her primitive way of thinking.

    • Dear Agrippa,

      You are a F#@!*^& ignorent IDIOT!

      *>>>women were treated as unisex chattel in Russia during the Communist years

      Lies. Latynina told you?*

      I mentioned in a prior post that the kremlin sent several of my relatives [teenage girls] to the gulags to build railroads in the frozen north in roosha, etc!

      The kremlin treated chattle better!

      Sincerely,
      LES

      • Can’t find it. Tell me more. Please. The story is something that could happen, but something tells me you are just a liar.

        • Dear Agrippa,

          If you say that someone is lying when they are telling the truth, that makes you the liar! By the way, the louder you scream doesn’t make what you say any more true. To the contrary, the louder you scream, the more desperate you must be to shout down the truth! Truth is not dependent on volume or the power of your lungs. Truth is not mindless repetition of rhetoric. The Nazis were big believers in slogans and loud lying. They started out strong and look where they ended up. The arrogance of power deludes you into thinking you get to define the truth, as if truth were some kind of malleable commodity, subject to be determined by those in power. Those in power may believe, may hope that to be the case, but truth is not determined by consensus or by majority vote. And truth is not what you hear on TV just because the mainstream media are broadcasting a message the current administration wishes to promote. In case you don’t know, that’s not truth, that’s propaganda. That’s not informing people, that’s indoctrinating people. And it damn sure isn’t enlightenment–it’s manipulation! Thank God–and I do mean that literally!—we still have enough freedom in this country to express our concerns.

          Sincerely,
          LES

  8. Discussion should be not a personal assault. In any case the fact is that we read these articles, so these issues worries us. Dictatorships are worst social structures. In Russia however most people don’t know what to do with democracy and freedom. Just see documentary Death of the nation or Virginity and you will see what I mean.

    • >>>Discussion should be not a personal assault.

      Hey, you look normal ))

      >>> In any case the fact is that we read these articles, so these issues worries us.

      Only the bad things, both real and seeming, are collected here (and as far as i can see it’s true for the most of the “western” media). No wonder it makes you worry.

      >>>Dictatorships are worst social structures.

      That’s perfunctory statement. Dictatorship is an instrument countries use to pass through the hard times. The instrument cannot be “good” or “bad”, it can be just helpful or useless.

      >>>In Russia however most people don’t know what to do with democracy and freedom

      In Russia, actually, most people know that democracy has nothing to do with freedom. Also, democrats made what even the revolution the civil war, and WWII could not: the destruction of what used to be Russian Empire – and that wasn’t, and could not be the will of people. No wonder russians don’t want it. And no we see that democratic ideas can be sold or used by the governments to fool people. It can protect those who is trying to sell your country, like Khodorkovsky.

      Still the democratic ideas are not buried here. Although US-style democracy is seem to have failed in Russia, ex-USSR states, and even the US itself, many people here are trying to find the type of democracy that is suitable to Russia. Not to say i’m really happy with it – the country is not ready for another experiment yet. Until then it’s our responsibility to pass our children the strong, wealthy, and territory intergal state. We can’t destroy what our forefathers built again just because of will to liberty.

      • So Agrippa, you don’t recognise the right of the people of your former imperial possesions to have freedom and prosperity?
        How Russian.
        You and people like you deserve to drown in the swill of what passes for your “culture”.
        Russia was, is, and will remain a sewer because of fools like yourself.
        If Russia had respected the will of the other former soviet republics rather than trying to dominate them, and apologised for its many crimes, it would have had nothing to fear from them. But instead it has turned them into enemies.
        Even Byelorus is turning on Russia.

        • We’ve nothing to apologise for. But still, what’s lost is lost, through i’d like the empire to be reborn, i don’t ask for revenge. IF there will never be NATO bases, IF they will respect the rights of russian people there, IF they will not insult our country, IF their governments will not try to discredit our common past, IF they will not be shelling russian citisens with GRADs and so on.

          • “i don’t ask for revenge.”

            Revenge? It’s the others who may not be asking for “revenge” (actually rather apology and compensation).

            “IF their governments will not try to discredit our common past”

            Imagine Germans saying something like this to the Poles (or the Russians).

            “IF they will not be shelling russian citisens with GRADs”

            That were only in the last few years handed Russian passports (that they never had before), are not ethnic Russians, who never lived in Russia and who live in another country.

            But Russia may continue to shell “russian citisens” (including ethnic Russians) with Grads (and Uragans, Smerchs, Buratinos – Grad is outdated and in terms of firepower is just nothing to a FAE-based Buratino), right?

            • Effects of an attack on “russian citisens” using a real, big rockets (ballistic misiles, not the Grad peashooters):

              But I think you might even actually enjoyed this (and of course, “nothing to apologise for”).

          • Really, so all the massacres, forced resettlements, cultural and actual genocide do not need to be apologised for?
            Russia is a living example of “those who do not learn from their mistakes are bound to repeat them”
            No wonder almost all of your former empire want NATO bases.

            • If they think NATO basis will save them from anything, they are just dudes. In August 2008, all the world saw what the words of the US Secretary of State “We always fight for our friends” are really worth. :-)

              LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

              Seems they were worth quite a lot. Russian forces were stopped cold on their march to Tbilisi, then booted out of Georgia proper. Then, not a single major nation of the world recognized Russian annexation of Ossetia and Abkahazia, not even China. Russia was humiliated before the world without Americans needing to fire a single shot.

  9. Les

    You must be exaggarating a bit about
    ” several of your relatives [teenage girls] sent to the gulags to build railroads in the frozen north in roosha”. If you are such a US flag-waving idiot, how did you come to have relative in roosha? Are they still there, building railroads in frozen Siberia? But sounds very touchy anyway (for other US idiots).

  10. Les

    I do hope I will recover soon reading your revelations on Russia. Laughing is the best possible cure for idiots like me. I trust you as a doctor.

    I know an “expert” on Mexico and Latin America with a university degree, the problem is he doesn’t speak Spanish. Do you speak /read Russian to make posts on editorials like Russia, Nation of Pigs. Don’t you think there could be some misjudgements made in this connection?
    (putting it very mildly)

  11. Yes Agrippa, aglymoff is a well-known expert on his favourite subjects of “NAZY” and “superethnos”. Do you also happen to be one?

    Now excuse me while I’m out to marry a homosexual person, because that’s what we all here are doing now.

    • Good for you. And i’m out to drink a bottle of russian vodka, beat my wife and push the red button, because that’s what we are all doing each and every morning.

      Modern myths are pathetic no matter who’s telling it. All i say is aglymoff is more an expert when it comes to Russia then LR. LR, actually, is myth-teller.

      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

      It’s a fact that Russia leads the world in spouse homicide and divorce. It also has the world fifth-highest overall murder rate. Instead of proposing reforms and solutions, you seek to rationalize and ignore the problems, helping them to continue and destroy Russia, exactly what happened to the USSR.

      Your are a dangerous enemy of the Russian people. Why do you hate them so much?

  12. I for one would prefer a person to be homosexual but monogamous rather than heterosexual but polygamous (or polyandrous, but that doesn’t happen as often, definitely not in Russia). Meaning: if a person doesn’t cheat, I don’t care who they find sexually attractive.

    as much as I hate to agree with Aglyamoff, he’s pretty much right and for exactly the same reasons that LR so kindly brought out. This also tends to be true in the former Soviet bloc. Then again, it doesn’t apply for the doctors/teachers who earn more than regular doctors/teachers – like surgeons, dentists and university professors.

  13. I heard about “NAZY” from you, it’s your favorite subject, not my.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169718/Brazilian-woman-packed-lingerie-turned-away-UK-airport.html

    Heterosexual men in Western Europe are becoming sights, like “Newcastle city centre”:)))

    It’s just joke, I’m not homophobe.

  14. Well Algymuff, it seems that buggery was pretty normal in Russia over the length of its history.

    “Medieval Russia was apparently very tolerant of homosexuality. There is evidence of homosexual love in some of the lives of the saints from Kievan Rus dating to the 11th century. Homosexual acts were treated as a sin by the Orthodox Church, but there were no legal sanctions against them at the time, and even churchmen seemed perturbed by homosexuality only in the monasteries. Foriegn visitors to Muscovite Russia in the 16th and 17th centuries repeatedly express their amazement at the open displays of homosexual affection among men of every class. Sigismund von Heberstein, Adam Olearius, Juraj Krizhanich, and George Turberville all write about the prevalence of homosexuality in Russia in their travel and memoir literature. The 19th century historian Sergei Soloviev writes that “nowhere, either in the Orient or in the West, was this vile, unnatural sin taken as lightly as in Russia.”

    http://community.middlebury.edu/~moss/RGC2.html

    So what are you not telling us about all your special friends Algy?

  15. Nice of you to finally admit it Agrippa

    “PRESS RELEASE

    The World Organisation Against Torture (OMCT) expresses its concern regarding violence against women in Russia at the 31st Session of the UN
    Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

    Geneva, 17 November 2003

    The UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights will today begin its examination of the implementation of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights in Russia. In its alternative country report entitled “Violence against Women in Russia,” which has been submitted to the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the World Organisation Against Torture (OMCT) expresses its grave concern at reports of violence against women at the hands of both private individuals and state officials.

    Although Russia has ratified most international human rights treaties, which prohibit discrimination against women, sex discrimination persists in Russia. Women are discriminated against in politics (with only 7.6% of the State Duma members being women) and in employment (with many expressing the view that in difficult economic times, any available jobs should be given first to men). Discrimination against women in Russia also manifests itself in forms of violence against women, which is prevalent in Russia.

    There is a proverb in Russia which says, “A beating man is a loving man.” Not only is domestic violence common in Russia, it is widely accepted as a private matter. Statistics indicate that the majority of married women have experienced some type of violence within the family and that women are frequently blamed for having provoked the violence. The tendency to treat domestic violence as a private matter is reflected in police response to reports of such violence, making it extremely difficult for women to file complaints. There is no specific legislation outlawing domestic violence in Russia and it seems that this type of violence is not a priority for the government.

    Women in Russia are particularly vulnerable to becoming trafficking victims. With a lack of job opportunities at home, and offers of lucrative employment abroad, Russian women fall prey to trafficking schemes where they are taken abroad and upon their arrival, their passports and other identification papers are seized, and they are forced to work as prostitutes. Trafficking victims are often deported back to Russia, where they have very little social support and are extremely afraid to press charges against the traffickers. Although specific legislation concerning trafficking is in draft form in Russia, it is unclear whether this legislation will be fully effective in offering protection to trafficking victims and preventing further violence.

    OMCT’s report also expresses serious concern about the widespread sexual harassment suffered by women in the work force of Russia. Sexual favours are reportedly a condition of employment for many women in Russia and there is currently no law which prohibits this treatment.

    The ongoing conflict in Chechnya is another context in which violence against women is pervasive. Women in Chechnya are subjected to violence particularly during “clean-up” operations and at checkpoints. Women human rights defenders have also been killed, disappeared, tortured, and threatened as a result of their work in Chechnya.

    Overall, the government has failed to protect women from violence whether at the hands of private individuals or state officials. OMCT’s report concludes that while Russia has a duty under international law to act with due diligence to prevent, investigate, prosecute and punish all forms of violence against women, irrespective of whether this violence is committed by public or private individuals, this obligation has not been adequately implemented at the national level.

    For copies of the alternative report on “Violence against Women in Russia” or for further information on OMCT’s programme on Violence against Women please contact Lucinda O’Hanlon at + 41 22 809 4939 or loh@omct.org.

    OR

    http://www.amnesty.org/russia/womens_day.html

    Every day 36,000 women in the Russian Federation are beaten by their husbands or partners.

    Every forty minutes a woman is killed by domestic violence.

    Official figures say domestic violence is part of the life of every fourth Russian family.

    Or

    http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=1999-00167-007

    Reported incidence and frequency rates of domestic violence in Russia exceed Western figures by 4 or 5 times. Although a grassroots social services movement has emerged to provide services for victims and families, a number of historical and cultural influences unique to Russia present challenges with regard to the problem of domestic violence. These include a history of institutional oppression of women, arcane legal procedures, a shortage of housing and shelters, untrained medical professionals, and widespread misinformation and myths about domestic violence. This article documents incidence and prevalence of domestic violence, cultural and historical influences, legal issues, and specific challenges to ending domestic violence in Russia

  16. To be in line with the EDITORIAL: Russia, Nation of Pigs.

    Mel Gibson has got a pretty Russian barbarian pig from Siberia pregnant and doesn’t look very much distressed. He must know something about women. Trust him, he’s an expert and stop your anti-Russian verbal insanity. Be PATRIOTS just like him.

    • I can think of a few problems here.

      1) Grigorieva just happens to be one of those millions of Russians who feel that it’s better to live in the West. (She emigrated to Australia in 1997, and I think started by moving to the UK in 1992.)

      2) Most people would say that impregnating another woman while you’re still married pretty much disqualifies you as a judge on treating women properly.

      3) And even with that, the only thing that Mel’s recent actions about his beliefs is that he thinks that Russian women are (and more specifically, one specific Russian woman is) attractive. There isn’t a lot of opposition to that idea, even on this site.

      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

      The notion that Russian women are any prettier on average than women from any other country is racist and offensive to us. It’s a myth propagated by Soviet propaganda and pure poppycock.

      • >>>The notion that Russian women are any prettier on average than women from any other country is racist and offensive to us.

        The notion that Russia is a nation of pigs is racist and offensive to us

  17. Dear LR:

    Once you told me that I needed to read your posts more carefully. I respectfully ask that you do the same with mine. I did not write that Russians were MORE attractive than anyone else. I wrote that Mel Gibson choosing a Russian for a girlfriend simply proves that he thinks that Russians are attractive (with the parenthetical statement indicating that this in fact refers to only one specific Russian woman) and has no bearing whatsoever on the issue at hand, which is how the Russian Federation treats its women.

  18. I have to agree with LR. Russian women are not prettier than American women… they are just 30 lbs lighter… on average…

  19. Simtech, personal insults and attachs are the way these people do business, expect nothing less, it comes from the “staff” at La Russophobe, and many commentators love to jump in.

    There is one irony I’d like to point out. Traditionally in Russia women were given clerical jobs. In Russia today, many of the “female” jobs, are the best money makers in the new economy. Banks, insurance companies, and investment companies are FULL of women and the men work as the security guards. Also the office politics tend to be female in nature in these businesses, meaning the men conform to the interactions of the females. The person who brought this law suit has already found a job as a paralegal, her chosen profession, and her 18,000 ruble a month assistant train driver job is something she would not have taken even if she won the case.

    Females drive trams, which appears to be more dangerous and physical then Metro drivers. They have to interact with cars and people on the city streets and in most cities that arn’t SPB and Moscow, manually get out of the train and throw track switches and change the direction of the train. I’ve never seen a metro engineer break a sweat.

    So, yes, the male dominated world is unfair to women who want to work in the low paying, hazardous jobs of Russia, but (excluding metro drivers) isn’t the fact that men are made to do terrible labor jobs a big reason why they die younger? Isn’t the culture of smoking and drinking and low wage jobs a male thing in Russia? If I were a Russian women I would be happy people thought my place with in an air conditioned bank making 4x what my husband made.

    • Actually Marc, women are routinely employed in hazardous and low paying jobs in the chemical industry, steelworks etc.

      The jobs women have in the banks etc, are usually the roles of secretary (read plaything for boss), and counter girl. They do not receive, as a general rule, the high paying jobs although there are of course exceptions.

      Russian sexism and abuse of women is legendary, and unfortunately true.
      A woman is 4 times as likely to be abused, physically, emotionally, and sexually in Russia as in a western country.

  20. “We can’t destroy what our forefathers built again just because of will to liberty.”

    Sadly, your forefathers built nothing but poverty and human suffering in Russia. They destroyed churches, constructed famines, tore families apart, built a KGB and gulag empire and mass murdered in the millions.

    Until you deal with your history, all of its sordidness and decades of lies, your children will inherit nothing of permanent value. They will always be pawns to thugs like Putin.

    I feel sorry for you, Agrippa, whoever you are. You lack courage, curiosity and compassion. You’ve got a mind that is cemented shut.

    • Yes, and sent a man into space. Actually, Russia had history also BEFORE the 1917.

      • Actually your history prior to 1917 was very similar to post 1917.
        Ruthless autocratic militarist government crushing thnic minorities and comitting imperialist genocides left right and centre.
        Even had the proto KGB, the Okrana.

  21. penny oh penny, you can only repeat the old Soviet song. But who built these churches in the first place? Were they not Russians? And who rebuilt the churches after the Soviets? Were they not Russians? Who brought the gulags into light? Solzhenitsyn! Was he not Russian?

    I can also say the Americans tore up families in Africa, enslaved and called them cattle (I mean ni**ers) and killed natives. But the Americans now have a black president, although many here don’t like the fact.

    Don’t judge the Russians, you are not a saint.

    • “I can also say the Americans tore up families in Africa, enslaved and called them cattle”

      And by “Americans” you mean Arabs and Spaniards.

      The Americans killed each other in their hundreds of thousands over the slavery (and other issues). It was the America’s bloodiest war.

    • Americans were never in the African slave trade in Africa. Most African slaves were captured by fellow natives and sold to Arabs at their point of departure to the new world.

      The measure of a country is how it admits and corrects its past wrongs. That black man in the White House has relevance especially since no American living owned a slave and the vast majority of immigrant Americans over many decades had no relationship to anyone that did.

      You aren’t very well informed, Spunky, you aren’t getting that Russians are burying their Soviet atrocities as history is being re-written to that effect and Stalin is being sanitized.

      You really ought to educate yourself on what’s going on in Russia.

      • Well the British, Portuguese and perhaps Americans as well bought the blacks from the Arabs. Although I bet that on the Nigerian coast they bought them directly from Africans. The fact that blacks are still the most dienfranchised, downtroden and ignorant group in your society speaks volumes. But I give you credit for Slavery being long gone. Well it took some time for Civil Rights to happen but still.

        Now you see that in Russia, some change occured quite recentlly after 80 years of a totalitarian regime, of course there will be people who would like to sanitize Stalin but that is unlikelly to happen because Solzhenitsyn is fully available on the market, there is the internet and all attempts on improving Stalin’s image are futile.

        But that is just my oppinion, if I am to learn, how about a link?

    • • penny oh penny, you can only repeat the old Soviet song. But who built these churches in the first place? Were they not Russians?

      • NOPE! Ukrainians built the first church in Kiev in 988. moscow did not exist.

      • And who rebuilt the churches after the Soviets? Were they not Russians?

      • NOPE! The kremlin killed about 3,000+ Ukrainian priests and destroyed or closed all the Ukrainian churches on the Ukrainian land witch they occupied. Ukrainians are still rebuilding and replacing destroyed churches. Meanwhile, the kremlin has reopened or rebuilt rooshan churches so that their KGB agents would have pulpits to stand upon.

      • Who brought the gulags into light? Solzhenitsyn! Was he not Russian?

      • NOPE! Wrong again. He was Ukrainian: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was born in Kislovodsk, RSFSR (now in Stavropol Krai, Russia) to a young Ukrainian[3] widow, Taisiya Solzhenitsyna (née Shcherbak), whose father had risen, it seems, from humble beginnings, much of a self-made man, and acquired a large estate in the Kuban region by the northern foothills of the Caucasus.

      Don’t judge the Russians, you are not a saint.

      • NOPE! Only the KGB can be judge, jury, and executioner?

      • > Ukrainians built the first church in Kiev in 988.

        There were no such things as “Ukrainians” at that time, the state was called Kievan Rus. It was only after the Mongol invasion that Russians were divided into Great Russians, Small Russians and White Russians. But nevertheless, bylinas (epics) of the Kiev cycle were preserved in the Arkhangelsk Region, not in Kiev.

        • Hi Eugene,

          Spin-doctor semantics is useful for useful idiots. Maybe you can tell me when the word Ukrainian appeared, but I will tell you why.

          Muscovy [moskali] stole the name Rus from the Ukrainian people. So, when you say Kievan Rus, you are referring to the present day Ukraine. Ukrainian is an East Slavic language spoken in Ukraine and in Ukrainian communities in neighbouring Belarus, roosha, Poland, and Slovakia. Ukrainian is a lineal descendant of the colloquial language used in Kievan Rus (10th–13th century).

          http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/613050/Ukrainian-language

          Stealing other peoples’ culture, traditions, heritage, etc. is a common policy, procedure and practice of the kremlin.

          Ukraine suffered “colossal” looting during World War II
          Research challenges Russians’ claim that they own many cultural valuables from the independent state

          Mr Kot said Russian museums rarely want to cooperate in determining just how much looted Ukrainian art they possess. At the end of the 1990s, however, Ukrainian researchers learned Russia was in possession of 26 mosaics and frescoes from the walls of the 12th-century St Mikhail’s Cathedral in Kiev that the Soviets destroyed in the 1930s. After years of negotiations, 11 of the frescoes, held in the Hermitage, were returned to Ukraine in two shipments: February 2001 and February 2004. The others remain in Russia.
          [Please read the rest of article at:]

          http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Ukraine-suffered-colossal-looting-during-World-War-II/17455

          Here is a map of Muscovy in 1500AD:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moscow1500.png

          After the moskali occupied Ukraine in the 17th century, the moskali decided to call themselves “greater rooshan” and Ukrainians “Little Russians”. That is when the kremlin’s genocide of the Ukrainian people, history, language, culture, and traditions – began. President Yushchenko has put a halt to this genocide, and has tried to curb the further russification of Ukraine.

          1720. Peter I’s ukase banning the publication and printing of books in Ukrainian.

          1769. Ban on Ukrainian ABC books.

          When the Austrian monarchy made Galicia a province in 1772, Habsburg officials ***RELIZED*** that the local East Slavic ***PEOPLE WERE DISTINCT*** from both Poles and Russians. Their own name for themselves, Rusyny, was similar in sound to the German term for Russians, Russen. Austria adopted the ethnonym Ruthenen (Ruthenians), and continued to use it officially until the empire fell apart in 1918.

          1784. Only “Pure Russian” is allowed as the language of instruction at the Kyiv Religious Academy. {BEFORE THE MOSKALI CAME, UKRAINIAN WAS THE LANGUAGE OF KIEV}

          From 1840 on the term “Little Rus” for Ukrayina and “Malorosy” for Ukrainians began to fall out of fashion. In the 1880s and 1900s, the popularity of the ethnonym Ukrainian spread and the term “Ukraine” became a substitute for “Ruthenia” among the Ruthenian/Ukrainian population of the Russian Empire. In time the term “Ruthenian” became restricted to western Ukraine, an area then part of the Austro-Hungarian state.
          1863. Ban on printing any books in Ukrainian except for “belles-lettres.”
          1866. “Strict surveillance” over Ukrainian belles-lettres is introduced.
          1876. Ban on importing or bringing from abroad any books “in the Small-Russian dialect”; theatrical plays in Ukrainian, public recitals in Ukrainian and even the texts in Ukrainian accompanying the music notes are banned.
          1895. Ban on children’s books in Ukrainian.

          1917 After expelling the government forces, the Rada announced an autonomous Ukrainian Republic, still maintaining ties to Russia, on November 22, 1917.
          1918 On January 25, 1918, the Tsentralna Rada issued its Fourth Universal (dated January 22, 1918), breaking ties with Bolshevik Russia and proclaiming a sovereign Ukrainian state.
          1918 The West Ukrainian People’s Republic was proclaimed on November 1st, 1918.

          Map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_ukraine.png

          1939 on March 15 Carpatho-Ukraine declared its independence as the “Republic of Carpatho-Ukraine”, with the Reverend Avhustyn Voloshyn as head of state.
          “The First Constitutional Law of Carpatho-Ukraine” of March 15, 1939 defined the new status of the country as follows:
          1. Carpatho-Ukraine is an independent state.
          2. The name of the state is: Carpatho-Ukraine.
          3. Carpatho-Ukraine is a republic, headed by a president elected by the Sojm of Carpatho-Ukraine.
          4. The state language of Carpatho-Ukraine is the Ukrainian language.
          5. The colors of the national flag of the Carpatho-Ukraine are blue and yellow, blue on top and yellow on the bottom.
          6. The state emblem of Carpatho-Ukraine is as follows: a bear on a red field on the sinister side, four blue and three yellow stripes on the dexter side, as well as the trident of Saint Volodymyr the Great.
          7. The national anthem of Carpatho-Ukraine is “Sche ne vmerla Ukraina” (“Ukraine has not perished”).
          8. This act comes valid immediately after its promulgation.
          9. map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carpatho_Ukraine_March_1939.png
          10. The Ukrainians’ battle against the Nazi supported Hungarians attack on Carpatho-Ukraine may be considered the first battle of WWII.

          1991 Free, at last! {AGAIN}

          • Addendum:

            Founded in the 12th century, the Principality of Muscovy, was able to emerge from over 200 years of Mongol domination (13th-15th centuries) and to gradually conquer and absorb surrounding principalities.

            In the early 17th century, a new Romanov Dynasty continued this policy of expansion across Siberia to the Pacific. Under PETER I (ruled 1682-1725), hegemony was extended to the Baltic Sea and the country was renamed the Russian Empire. During the 19th century, more territorial acquisitions were made in Europe and Asia.

            http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/07/country_facts/main3242334.shtml

            • Does this make you envious, Les? :-)

              • I was not raised to envy knowingly malicious evil!

                Many sovoks were orphans because their parents were killed by the kremlin; then their children [orphans] were brainwashed by the KGB and manipulated to become rooshan orthodox priests, moles, trolls, etc. The orphans’ training did not include the words – moral, ethical, hurtful, hateful, sinful, etc. When the kremlin rewrote their history books, they also rewrote the dictionaries.

                3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

                3 Бо колись були й ми нерозсудні, неслухняні, зведені, служили різним пожадливостям та розкошам, жили в злобі та в заздрощах, бридкими були, ненавиділи один одного.

                Titus 3
                Chapter 3

  22. Funky:

    You are engaging in a common fallacy called “Tu quoque.” Essentially, you argue that criticism of action A is invalid because the proponent of that criticism is guilty of some wrongdoing.

    Example:

    “Putin ate a baby!”

    “Who are you to talk? I know for a fact that Bush ate two babies!”

    Now the fact here is that Bush’s eating two babies does not make Putin’s eating one baby any less reprehensible.

    My real problem, though, is that the “Tu quoque” attack is invariably the first argument that any Russophile offers up in defense, as if any heinous act by the Russian government is automatically exonerated by the wrong acts of any other nation.

    • I think if Bush ate two babies, and Putin also ate two babies, then it’s wrong to tell that Putin is the worst leader of modern world, and Russia is the worst country (the best… except all the others). The blog is not “politicians-phobe” or “misanthrope”, but “russophobe”, so i think there should be as many as it possible arguments against Russia that are not applicable to the most of other countries. It would be not wise to affirm that Russia is completely free of historical crimes, but i think it’s (maybe it’s sounds a bit cinical) normal for any country. And it is the height of impudence for europeans or americans to accuse russians of being any worse then themselves.

      • Isn’t this “russophobe” a tongue-in-cheek stuff?

        It’s an old tactic of the Russian regime and its supporters to accuse the critics and detractors of “russophobia” (or even sovietophobia – like if it was an odd thing), “double standards” and so on.

      • Btw, what’s a “historical crime”? Are these: http://www.srji.org/en/ a “historical crimes”?

        • Take a look for example at:
          http://www.srji.org/en/news/2006/07/10/

          It took place over 9 years ago (and his body is still not found), so you may say it’s “historical”. So let’s forget “history”, let’s see the present time:

          “Then Colonel-General Baranov, the officer who ordered Yandiyev’s execution, has since been promoted and is currently commander of all Russian troops in the North Caucasus. He has also been awarded the Hero of Russia Medal.”

          And you say it’s “normal for any country” (“(maybe it’s sounds a bit cinical”). I don’t know what country you mean by “any country”, maybe Burma or North Korea.

          • In case you forgot:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

            I wonder if it’s normal even for Burma or North Korea

            oh…
            In late January 2004, U.S. officials released three children aged 13 to 15 (!!!!!!) and returned them to Afghanistan

            охуеть

            • @”In case you forgot:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

              I wonder if it’s normal even for Burma or North Korea ”

              It’s certainly better than in Russia.

              Russia/U.S.: Mothers Of Guantanamo Detainees Fear Sons’ Extradition
              http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/news/2003/08/sec-030805-rfel-150254.htm

              Russian mothers plead for sons to stay in Guantanamo
              http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/09/guantanamo.russia

              But the US governemnt betrayed them and they were “freed” – to be tortured in Russia:

              Russia abused ex-Guantanamo detainees-rights group
              http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N28328392.htm

              Russia and US accused of abusing men freed from Guantanamo Bay
              http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-and-us-accused-of-abusing-men-freed-from-guantanamo-bay-442342.html

              “The US government knew that these men would likely be tortured, and sent them back to Russia anyway,” the report said.

              About the lucky one (that is, if he was not “freed” yet):

              Last Russian at Guantanamo afraid to return home
              http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,COUNTRYNEWS,,DEU,4982d6bf1a,0.html

              @”In late January 2004, U.S. officials released three children aged 13 to 15 (!!!!!!) and returned them to Afghanistan”

              That’s shocking you, that they released the young captives? How many of the young Chechen fighters did not survive the captivity, executed or tortured to death like the others?

              Sample photos:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evstafiev-chechnya-boy-house-burns.jpg
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evstafiev-chechnya-handshake.jpg

              • Oh, and btw (as my previous comment is still awaiting moderation):

                CHECHNYA: Rape and torture of children in Chernokozovo ‘filtration camp’

                Posted: 23 March 2000

                Amnesty International has received disturbing testimony from a survivor of the Chernokozovo “filtration camp” that detainees, including women and children, have been raped and subjected to brutal torture.

                Amnesty International’s field researcher interviewed in Ingushetia “Musa”*, a 21-year-old man, who was held in the Chernokozovo camp between 16 January and 5 February. He was detained in the village of Znamenskiy, while fleeing the shelling of Grozny by bus with his mother and brother. Musa was detained with 10 other men, including two teenage boys.

                “Musa” was severely beaten and tortured several times each day during his detention. On 18 January, he was forced to walk between a “human corridor” of 20-25 masked men armed with clubs and hammers, who beat him and the other detainees as they passed. “Musa” was hit on his back with a hammer which has left him with a fractured spine.

                “Musa” witnessed a 14-year-old girl being raped by a dozen prison guards in the corridor outside the cells in which he and other detainees were held. The girl had come to visit her detained mother and for the price of 5,000 Rubles she was permitted a five-minute meeting. Her five-minute meeting became a four-day ordeal during which she was locked in a cell, beaten and repeatedly raped by guards.

                “Musa” also told Amnesty International about a 16-year-old boy called Albert, originally from the village of Davydenko, who was brought to his cell after being gang-raped and severely beaten by prison guards. One of his ears had been cut off and the guards referred to him by the female name of “Maria”. “Musa” believes that up to 10 men were raped in the camp during his 21-day detention.

                “Musa” shared a cell for one week with Andrey Babitsky, the Radio Liberty journalist.

                Among his other cell mates during his 21-day detention, were a man whose hands had been severely burnt by prison guards with cigarette lighters and a 17-year-old youth whose teeth had been sawn off with a metal file and whose lips were shredded, leaving him unable to eat, drink or speak. “Musa” estimated that 10-15 new detainees were brought to the camp each day. Among those he saw were 13-14 year-old girls.

                His freedom was eventually secured on 5 February by his mother who paid 4,000 Rubles and bought the release of two Russian prisoners of war from Chechen fighters, as demanded by the camp authorities. “Musa” and his mother escaped to Ingushetia and are currently in hiding fearing for their safety after he was identified following an interview he gave about his ordeal to the national NTV channel. According to medical doctors who examined “Musa” after his release, without urgent medical treatment he risks being paralysed for life.

                “‘Musa’s’ shocking ordeal is consistent with other reports that have emerged from the Russian “filtration camps”, despite continual denials by the Russian government to the international community and the media that torture and rape are prevalent in these camps,” Amnesty International said.
                http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=12978

                So I don’t think it may be a real shocker to you:

                “I am terribly scared of a Russian prison or Russian court for my son,” Amina Khasanova was quoted as saying by Gazeta newspaper.

                “At Guantanamo they treat him humanely, the conditions are fine.”

                Her son, Andrei Bakhitov, is one of eight Russian detainees and the newspaper quoted a letter he wrote to his mother.

                “I think that there is not even a health resort in Russia on the level of this place,” the letter said.
                http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200308/s920538.htm

              • HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
                This remains me of german propaganda at the times of WWII, when prisoners of concentration camps “wrote” to their relatives that they are fed, happy, playing chess all the day and so on… ARE YOU REALLY SO F**KING STU**D to believe that

                oh wait…

                HAHAHA…

                wait…

                “Russian mothers plead for sons to stay in Guantanamo”

                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa

                oh wait, there’s more:

                “Mr Bakhitov told his mother that in Guantanamo “everything is fine with me”

                OH GOD… AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

                Himmler would be happy )))

                • Ok, I’ll go ahead indeeed. After the hapless prisoners were betrayed and delivered “home” to Russia:

                  All seven were arrested by US forces in Afghanistan and Pakistan during 2002 and only released from Guantanamo in 2004 on the promise that they would receive “humane treatment” on their return to Russia.

                  Of the seven, all of whom are ethnically non-Russian and come from predominantly Muslim areas, three are in prison, three are in hiding, and the seventh refuses to talk about his experience.

                  (…)

                  Of the seven Russian nationals sent back from Guantanamo the case of Rasul Kudaev, a resident of the southern Russian republic of Kabardino-Balkaria, is the most shocking.

                  Kudaev was initially given his liberty by the authorities but in October 2005 he was accused of taking part in an armed uprising in the city of Nalchik, an allegation he fiercely denies.

                  Although he has not been charged, he remains in custody to this day; according to Human Rights Watch there is compelling evidence that he has been tortured. When his lawyer visited him in custody she noted that he had to be carried because he couldnÕt walk and that “his eye was full of blood, his head was a strange shape and size, his right leg was broken and he had open wounds on his hands.” Two of the other Guantanamo Seven were convicted of blowing up a gas pipeline in Tatarstan, a charge they deny.

                  According to Human Rights Watch confessions were beaten out of them by depriving one of them of sleep for one week and using a gas mask to asphyxiate him until he was ready to sign anything.

                  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-and-us-accused-of-abusing-men-freed-from-guantanamo-bay-442342.html

                  “Immediate responsibility for the suffering of these seven Russian men lies of course with the Russian government. But the U.S. government must bear its share of the blame as well,” the report said.

                  “Given the commonplace nature of torture by Russian law enforcement, it seems implausible that the Americans could have sent home these seven men, branded as they were by the ‘stamp of Guantanamo,’ and expected them to suffer anything less than the misery that they have, in fact, endured,” it said.

                  http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N28328392.htm

                  The report:

                  The “Stamp of Guantanamo”
                  The Story of Seven Men Betrayed by Russia’s Diplomatic Assurances to the United States

                  http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2007/03/28/stamp-guantanamo

                  What welcome was to Andrei Bakhitov (Airat Vakhitov), whose terrified letters begging to stay in Gitmo you apparently found so “funny”?

                  The mistreatment of the former Guantanamo detainees began from the moment they touched down on Russian soil. Airat Vakhitov told Human Rights Watch,

                  When we [first] got to Russia they didn’t torture us, they just dealt with us very roughly, they beat us when we touched down at Sheremetyevo … at the airport, they dragged us down the runway by our feet through the snow and kicked us. When they brought us on the plane [for the onward journey to Pyatigorsk] they kicked us again. They asked who among us was wounded, and whoever said they were wounded got kicked on their wounds.

                  http://www.hrw.org/en/node/10989/section/8

                  One of them was since even killed by the police.

                  RT spin on his murder:

                  http://www.russiatoday.ru/Top_News/2007-06-27/Former_Guantanamo_prisoner_shot_dead_in_Southern_Russia_.html

                  If he was not “returned home”, he would be alive.

                  How are the others nowadays?

                  (Moscow, December 2, 2008) – The health of a former Guantanamo detainee has declined alarmingly in a Russian detention facility, and he should be given immediate access to an independent medical examination and appropriate treatment, Human Rights Watch said today.

                  The former Guantanamo detainee, Rasul Kudaev, has been held for more than three years in pretrial detention in Nalchik, a city in southern Russia, accused of participating in an October 2005 armed uprising against the local government. He was severely tortured in custody. Human Rights Watch urged that Kudaev’s lawyer be present during any medical examination.

                  “Rasul Kudaev has not been convicted of any crime, but prison authorities are putting his life at risk by letting his health collapse,” said Carroll Bogert, associate director of Human Rights Watch. “The Russian government must get him decent medical treatment immediately.”

                  Kudaev is one of seven Russian citizens whom the US government sent back from Guantanamo to Russia in 2004 despite their fears of being tortured and ill-treated back home. Human Rights Watch detailed their harassment and mistreatment by Russian authorities in a 2007 report “The Stamp of Guantanamo”. It is a violation of the Convention against Torture, as well as other US and international laws, to involuntarily return people to a country where they are in danger of being tortured.

                  http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/12/02/russia-ex-guantanamo-detainee-seriously-ill-jail

                  If they stayed in Gitmo, he would be alright.

                  About the remaining last one:

                  Ravil Mingazov, who is from Tatarstan, has reportedly told his mother that he is worried about being arrested if he returns to Russia after being released from Guantanamo.

                  His mother told RFE/RL’s Tatar-Bashkir Service that all the Russian citizens released from Guantanamo in the past have been arrested up returning home.

                  Mingazov has requested political asylum in Germany and is now awaiting a decision.

                  http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,COUNTRYNEWS,,DEU,4982d6bf1a,0.html

                  Laugh now like an idiot you are, go on.

                • “…

                  oh wait…

                  HAHAHA…

                  wait…

                  “Russian mothers plead for sons to stay in Guantanamo”

                  AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa”

                  “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa” is the usual sound in a Russian prisons (and especially the “filtration camps”).

                  And about the one was was later killed – whose mother’s begging you found so “funny” in this article:

                  “Earlier this year Nina Odizheva, the mother of Ruslan, 29, from Kabardino-Balkaria, wrote several times to the US ambassador, Alexander Vershbow, begging Washington to resist Moscow’s calls for extradition. ”

                  Yes, it’s from the same “funny” article:

                  Russian mothers plead for sons to stay in Guantanamo
                  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/09/guantanamo.russia

                  They returned him (despite his mothers’ desperate pleas) and he was killed. That easy.

                  And the US Government shares responsibility for what happened, like the British who had repatriated “Soviet citiziens” after WWII to their fates (some of those people were even commiting suicide on their way “back home”, because what awaited them was worse).

                  “Himmler would be happy )))”

                  Himmler would be happy with no eyes?

                  • “They give me books here and I am held in a clean place. The food is tasty. I want for nothing but freedom. Good people are sat around me”

                    Oh boy… One should be a complete fool to buy this

                    • You find it unbelievable because you assume the rooshan way is the only way?

                    • The place IS clean. Check out yourself, if you don’t believe.

                      About Chernokozovo:
                      http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2000/russia_chechnya4/detention-center.htm

                      Full report:

                      “Welcome to Hell”
                      Arbitrary Detention, Torture, and Extortion in Chechnya
                      http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2000/russia_chechnya4/index.htm#TopOfPage

                      A video from a Russian prison (not even in Chechnya):

                    • Also, Agrippa, you must understand that he really, really, REALLY didn’t want go to HELL (Russia).

                      And they were right, as back in Russia they were tortured, actually killed.

                      The last remaining one still don’t want to go to Russia (but to Germany). And he’s happy he’s still there, for now, while waiting for a third country to receive him and give him asylum.

                      The other guys would be happy being there with him too, but instead they were sentenced to Russia by the American government, the sentence officially called “release” (and one is dead so doesn’t have any feelings anymore).

                      Now, what is happening to a foreign fighter fighter when he’s caught in Chechnya? I never heard of any, so I suppose all of them were simply murdered.

                      If I’m wrong, please tell me about this Russian version of the Camp X-Ray and the treatment of prisoners there.

          • Я то думал еще не так там все плохо…
            Пиздец вообще. “И эти люди запрещают мне ковыряться в носу…”

    • 2Scott:
      Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye’; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye. © J.C. When the USA has such “rafters” as Iraq and Yugoslavia in its eyes it is in no position to reproach Russia for what it thinks to be “straws”.

      • WASHINGTON (CNN) — Dozens of suspected terrorists released by the United States from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are believed to have returned to terrorism activities, according to the Pentagon.

        http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/14/gitmo.detainees/index.html

      • Eugene:

        Very simply, because you use what you posit as inexcusable to justify the inexcusable. By your definitions, I shouldn’t worry about Iraq because Russia has done worse in Chechnya (and vice versa.) Or Putin can reduce Russia to fascism, because at least it’s not as bad as what’s happening in Sudan. This is moral relativism, and it has led to more justification of otherwise unconscionable acts of evil than most any other philosophical position extant.

        I take a different position. Facts are facts, and should be argued on the basis of facts. Wrong is wrong, and should be condemned as wrong.

        The fact is that you and most Russophiles don’t want the US to remedy its ills – you merely want to use American and Western abuses so that you can ignore your own behavior. And THAT is hypocrisy.

        • > The fact is that you and most Russophiles don’t want the US to remedy its ills

          Because it just can’t.

          LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

          Isn’t that what they said when they claimed the USSR would “bury” the USA? Don’t you ever get tired of making a total fool of yourself?

  23. I would also argue that since half a million Russians recently voted Stalin as the Greatest Russian Ever (not a bad trick for a Georgian), then maybe the efforts to rehabilitate him haven’t been as futile as you think.

    • Stalin is an Ossetian.

      • “Stalin is an Ossetian.”

        That’s cool, they can take him too.

      • Actually, this is what makes it interesting. Russians who like Stalin call him Russian (though you’re the first I’ve seen to call him Ossetian – but given not without good reason: Robert explained the whole Dzhugash + vili thing before) and those who don’t call him Georgian. Georgians who like Stalin call him Georgian, and those who don’t call him Ossetian.

        The only thing that stays constant is the guy was personally responsible for the deaths of millions, which puts him in a class of mass murderer only shared with Hitler and Mao.

        • Yeah… and according to the Civilized West, Stalin’s gravest crime was forcing democratically elected leader of the European Union Adolf Hitler to commit suicide. :-) After having passed through the inferno of 1990s, most Russians have forgiven Stalin all his crimes, both actual and invented… for having won the WWII and for having armed Russia with nuclear weapons that remain its “insurance policy” against “promotion of democracy” and “humanitarian bombings” to this day.

          • Maybe you think rule by fear and slaughter made for a golden era. I maintain enough faith in the goodness of the Russian people to believe most of them don’t.

            • Maybe Stalin’s reign was not “a golden era” but thanks to it at least I am not writing you from a bomb shelter during some “humanitarian bombing” of St. Petersburg where I live. And I repeat you again: what you call “goodness of the Russian people” (or rather its naivete) was done away with during the 1990s, the era of “American triumphalism” when Russia was cruelly abused by the “Only Superpower”.

              LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

              The Russian Navy just bombed St. Petersburg, you ignoramus.

              Your attempt to blame Russia’s failure to embrace democracy (Russia has NEVER held a real contested election since the fall of the USSR or been governed by someone who wasn’t a ranking Communist) is pathetic. All the nations of Eastern Europe despite Russia because it cruelly abuses them even to this day, and Russia is now governed by a proud KGB spy who is bad for Russia and the Russians just as Stalin was. Stalin destroyed the USSR and Putin will just as surely destroy Russia. If Russia is destroying itself to spite America, it is a nation of baboons (just like you).

              • In what way did the US abuse poor Russia?
                Russia was the one doing the abusing, in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Daghestan, Ingushetia, and other areas such as Tajikistan.

                • Chechnya, Daghestan and Ingushetia are PARTS OF RUSSIA, you Pindostani ignoramus. It is as though you might say that the “USA abused Texas, New Mexico and California” (which it indeed did).

                  LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                  Ossetia and Abkhazia were PARTS OF GEORGIA, you Rooski ignoramus.

                  • Yes, but like all intelligent people, they intensely dislike Russia. And you were (and are) abusing them.

                    • Chechens are INTELLIGENT PEOPLE? :-D Well, some British and New Zealandian engineers thought so when then went to help “independent Ichkeria” build its cellular phone network… the poor slobs came back with their heads severed. :-(

                      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                      Why do you speak so unkindly about your fellow Russians? You do agree they’re your fellow Russians, right? Because otherwise they’d be entitled to independence.

                      And you do know they live much longer than Russians, right?

              • With all due respect, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there were a grand total of three nations which underwent “humanitarian bombings”. Two of these were in reaction to a deliberate act of war in which thousands of American innocents were deliberately murdered. (Whether Iraq was a legitimate target is debatable, but that’s a discussion for another time.) In fact, your own nation engaged in the right to slaughter Chechens without so much as a whisper of complaint because it was considered part and parcel of that particular campaign.

                The third in the last remaining post-Soviet Russian client state began engaging in its SECOND campaign of genocide against a neighboring people within a period of three years. After the Holocaust, the watchword was supposed to be “Never Again.” At least I think we should be able to manage “Never Again for Five Years or So.”

                All the other nations, including your own, were generally left alone in peace, even though sometimes being left alone in peace meant that they got to engage in mass slaughter (Rwanda and Darfur), nuclear extortion (North Korea), inconceivably ridiculous cults of personality (Belarus and Turkmenistan), or whatever else they intended to do.

                Your real complaint of course is 1) that the US tolerated the explosion of mass corruption in your country and sometimes profited from it. and 2) many of the outposts of your former imperial empire are now our allies instead of yours.

                In the first case, I would posit that some of that has to do with the very military strength that you are so quick to credit – what exactly was it that we were supposed to do? You had missiles and tanks and political influence, so we compromised as thieves and bandits, enriched and enabled by the Soviet system Stalin’s efforts saved, rose up and took all the money. What would you have us do? Prosecute YOUR citizens? Bomb you? That seems to be the very thing you decry so much everywhere else. So we sucked it up and tried to cooperate, doing horrible things like inviting you into the G-8 (the “big kids” club of nations) and sending you lots of nasty nasty money to help you out of the hole.

                As for number two – again, blame Stalin and Putin. You reap what you sow. (Just ask any American soldier in Afghanistan.) Is it that surprising that after almost half a century of occupation and oppression that the nations of Eastern Europe should look to the only other superpower in existence to make sure it doesn’t happen again? Is it that strange that when you try and murder a presidential candidate of a nation, that the people of that nation should express that annoyance by voting for him? Or that when you try to steal the election from him, they should gather in the streets to complain?

                Perhaps someday your wish will be granted and the US will depart from the scene to give way to a new hegemon. Of course, since this will probably be China, perhaps you’ll miss us. After all, at least we don’t have a colonial-era based bone to pick with you as they do. Once you don’t have the US to complain about, you might find that you have less in common than you think, or that your missiles have less deterrent power than you imagined when up against a truly malignant power.

                • At any rate, the Chinese are an ancient and wise nation, unlike the less than 250 years’ old cesspit for the whole world’s human refuse Pindostan is.

                  LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                  Russia would be another of those cesspits, right?

                  • Once upon a time, I was in the center of a discussion with Bobby about why people hate America – call it Yankophobia. I came up with three basic roots:

                    1) The US DOES do bad things
                    2) People are envious of its power
                    3) People look down on Americans as their rejects, seeing them as a lower life form.

                    Bobby of course railed NO NO NO – it’s only number one.

                    Thank you for proving me right Eugene. At least you’re honest in your racism.

                    • For that “racism”, you should thank your democratically elected leaders of the last twenty years. (sometimes in loser-gets-all elections, like Dubya). Zillions of dollars invested into creating a positive image of the USA with the Soviet people in the course of some 70 years went up in smoke in just a few years after the US orchestrated destructive “reforms” in Russia (putting it in debt in the process), expanded NATO to the east in spite of its own promises to the contrary given to Gorbachev and invasions into Yugoslavia and Iraq that showed us clearly what was the real purpose of that expansion! :-(( Just imagine, Scott: you deceived me out of my property, destroyed my house, killed my wife, put my son on drugs, raped my daugther, set my brothers against me… and then you just come and say: “Let’s push a reset button in our relations!”

                  • As for China, my feelings are much like with Russia. I admire the people, history, and culture, but deplore the government, and specifically the subjection of the individual to the power of the state. If anything, I’d have to say that I would favor Russia of the two because, when once upon a time someone in each country stood in front of a tank to stand, the Russian tank driver stopped, while the Chinese tank driver just kept on going…

                    • After a decade of Russia’s kowtowing to the US in the nineties, a whole generation of “Tiananmen tankmen” grew up here. Wait till people from that generation come to power – you’ll cry at night wishing the liberal Leningrad intellectual V.V. Putin back! :-)

                      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                      Name just one action Russia ever took that was “kowtowing”, we dare you.

                      And what makes you think Russia will last long enough for anyone to succeed the dictator Putin?

                    • “invasions into Yugoslavia”

                      No such thing. The only “invasion” (the KFOR mission) was conducted after when Milosevic surrendered (and involved Russian troops).

                • > (Just ask any American soldier in Afghanistan.)

                  BTW, how did those soldiers come to arrive to Afghanistan generous aid from the USA had helped to get rid from Soviet occupation that was soooo BAD? Did they catch that elusive Osama bin Laden? And why do Afghans say: “the Shuravi” (Soviets) were warriors, while the Americans are murderers”?

                  • Eugene, every Afghan I have met despises the Red Army as child murdering scum.
                    One Afghan was telling me about the mines designed to look like traditional afghan toys, so kids would pick them up and take them home.

                    Afghans have repeatedly said the US is nowhere near as bad as the Russians, and the evidence is in the casualty figures. Russia killed at least 500,000 Afghan civillians, the total number of Afghan civillians killed by the US is less than one tenth.

                    • Andrew,

                      The OMAR [Organisation for Mine Clearance & Afghan Rehabilitation] also host an odd sort of Museum which has many of the dozens of types of land mines and UXO they have cleared on display. A highlight has got to be the Russian made “Butterfly” mines. These plastic mines are normally air dropped and have little kind of wings to float them to the ground. They also rather sadistically come in a range of kid friendly colours making them a kind of bizarro world children’s toy. This has rather sickeningly created missing arms a plenty.
                      http://www.carlmontgomery.com/kabul-landmine-museum/

                    • Also,

                      Naturally curious, children are likely to pick up strange objects, such as the infamous toy-like ‘butterfly’ mines that Soviet forces spread by the millions in Afghanistan. (…) Afghanistan, Angola and Cambodia have suffered 85 per cent of the world’s land-mine casualties.
                      http://www.unicef.org/graca/mines.htm

                      According to the survey, about 30% of mine victims in Afghanistan are children most of whom die due to lack of medical facilities.
                      http://www.un.org/cyberschoolbus/banmines/schools/afgbackground.asp

                      And then “the warriors” repeated this in Chechnya:

                      The International Campaign to Ban Landmines, which won the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize, reported that 5,695 people were killed by land mines in Chechnya in 2002, more than double the 2,140 casualties a year earlier. The group said Russian troops and Chechen rebels both use mines in the breakaway Russian region.
                      (…)
                      At the same time, a massive mine-clearing effort in Afghanistan is having the desired effect, lowering the toll from mines from 1,445 in 2001 to 1,286 last year, still the world’s second-deadliest toll. About $64 million was spent last year on mine-clearing operations, four times greater than in 2001, after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban government.

                      Chechnya’s Dubious Land Mine Title
                      Breakaway Russian Region Replaces Afghanistan As Deadliest Nation
                      http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/09/world/main572349.shtml

                • Well said Scott!

    • This only means that efforts to discredit Stalin haven’t been as successful as you think

  24. Pingback: Official Russia | A Savage Case of Child Abuse in Chita

  25. 2Robert: Who bombed Belgrade then – Martians?!

    • Bombing is not an invasion (“invasion by air” is sending aeromobile troops).

      Also most of the former Yugoslavians (Croatians, Bosnians, Slovenians, Kosovars, etc) did not share your objections. Guess why.

  26. 2LR:

    > We beg to differ. You are an idiot.

    It’s better to be an idiot than a Pindostani moron. :-)

  27. Women and children were not the only ones that the kremlin abused and killed:

    Mystery of the Missing Humpbacks Solved by Soviet Data

    ………….killed every whale they encountered, regardless of species, age, size, or sex. Marine biologists on the Soviet whaling fleet in the Southern Ocean recorded the correct data, then turned these over to KGB commissars who created a second set of books with false figures for IWC, say the study’s authors, who have extensively interviewed four biologists through a translator. “The marine biologists had to sign a KGB statement saying they would never release any of their data,” says co-author Robert Brownell Jr., a cetacean biologist with NOAA Fisheries in Pacific Grove, California.

    [MORE INFO:]

    http://travel-dive.com/blogs/scuba_blogs/archive/2009/06/01/mystery-of-the-missing-humpbacks-solved-by-soviet-data.aspx

  28. Les ,
    Bravo ! That was a most enlightening and erudite chronology on the difference between
    Ukraine and Moscovy . No wonder poor Eugene
    could muster only such a feeble minded response . That’s because he is waaaay out of
    his element .
    Srealing another country’s history , heritage ,
    culture and artifacts , does not mean that theirs
    is a common nation .
    I would also add one more difference between
    them ; while Ukraine from the very beginning ,
    was always democratic , Moscovy , was never
    anything but autocratic . Still is .

  29. Oh! It is a very stupid articl.You even have no concept as to live in Russia. Women the same rights as well as men have. As though in other countries there are no fools who raise a hand against the woman? You since a birth have got used that at you all is, and at us everyone is necessary on itself(himself) and the family. At us other moral foundations. If war, in our country all can stand for itself together, and at you only pity hired army which where you will beckon money – there and will go. At many countries even 1/10 our stories are not present, have constructed the country all found, and others discuss – where morals?
    At us the majority of women beautiful, clever and decent and want to marry on love, instead of money. Many girls are more independent than any man and is more successful.
    Victoria. From Russia with LOVE.

  30. I have got the hang of it and I am running with it.
    Wobbling and vibrating place significant stress on many
    parts of the fan and will ultimately shorten its life.
    A little fan put in an exceedingly huge area can definitely not do the job.

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