EDITORIAL: Saved from the Russian Meat Grinder


Saved from the Russian Meat Grinder

If you stare hard at the twin girls pictured above on the left, you’re immediately struck by now much they resemble their mother and father, at right.  But when you look at the background of the photo and learn more about them, you’re even more struck by the fact that these girls are Russian, their parents are American, and they were adopted at the age of two from one of Russia’s infamous hell-hole orphanages.

A quarter million children live in such awful places in Russia, and over three-quarters of them end up convicts, drug addicts or prostitutes.

When Mike Allen, a top-gun American fighter pilot, and his wife Pam adopted Galina and Svetlana (now Jessica and Jennifer) in 1994, they had whooping cough, malnourishment and were dressed in boys’ clothes.  “I hope more people saw our story and adopted kids from Russia at that time, because kids really needed to get adopted. There was a lot of sick kids besides us,” Jessica remarked as she gazed upon her former homeland for the first time in her conscious life.

But whether they saw the story does not matter, unfortunately.

American adoptions of Russian children dropped from 5,826 in 2004 to 1,079 in 2010 because of a merciless bureaucratic crackdown on American parents by the Kremlin.  Russia’s insane rulers attempt to use a few rare cases of abuse by American parents to justify this action, but the real reason is obvious:  The population of neo-Soviet Russia is dwindling rapidly because the best and the brightest are being driven out by the lack of freedom and those who remain live such short, pathetic lives that they have little time or opportunity to repopulate.

Russia is, in other words, adopting the neo-Soviet solution to population control:  Don’t let the people leave.  Russia is slowly turning into the same type of slave state that the USSR was, and this ought to be truly terrifying to the entire world.  Today, the children are denied emigration. Tomorrow, it will be the adults.

And if the children are kept in the country, this does not mean Russians will care for them. Russians view these children as outcasts, untouchables, garbage, and they will leave them to fester in godforsaken orphanages, to turn to drugs, alcohol, crime and prostitution as the only way out. Better that, in the warped Russian mind, than life in America.

The cruelty of Russia’s rulers and of her people towards these quarter million helpless children suffering in silence is absolutely barbaric and beneath contempt.  Russians are prepared to allow tens of thousands of children to ruin their lives, in terrible pain, rather than allow them to live comfortably and happily in the USA just because they cannot handle the embarrassment of watching them leave.

Russia will pay a stark price for this cruelty, just as the USSR did.


70 responses to “EDITORIAL: Saved from the Russian Meat Grinder

  1. …quarter million children live in such awful places in Russia, and over three-quarters of them end up convicts, drug addicts or prostitutes.<<
    Its true,,But more disgusting that russian authorities NEVER punish rapists and abusers of women- but they punish the VICTIMS of rape and sexual abuse i e the girls/women themselves..

    I have read a horrible article that many minor prostitutes got kind a child-prison,,During soviet time it was Detskaya Kolonia – kind of prison for minors,,It seems that these Child Colonys still exist ?

    Btw, one russian blog wrote that the orphanages in russia are Club for pedophiles

  2. But what about disabled children and adults? Im sure their life is much more horrible..

    There are many videos on Youtube about bad condition on the institution for disables in Serbia and many other east-european countries..

    But no one video with the same issue from russia..
    I do not believe that situation of disabled in russia is much better than in other east-european countries.,probably worse

  3. Im astonished! It seems that now its worse than at the soviet time,,

    Russian children forcibly taken away from their biological parents into public care by the authorities just because biological parents are ‘poor’..
    Didnt they have enough orphans in Russia?

  4. Dr. Anja, you’d better go Honduras, Guatemala or Southern Mexico in search of “unhappy children”. I assure you there are millions of them wishing “to live comfortably and happily in the USA”. The only problem still remains the US/Mexico border fence “protecting American freedom” from the people across the border.
    There are parts of the world much closer to the US with millions of orphans to be adopted by millions of “child-free” US buggers.
    Why Russia again if I may ask you??? It appears to be a problem North America not Russia only.
    Yet another example of sadistic, primitive American propaganda fit for idiots inside “GoodOl’ USA”.

    • At least the US has to build fences to keep people out, rather than you Russian vermin who used to have to build fences to keep people in…..

      • …and now Russia is the world’s second-largest recipient of immigrants after the US, including for the thousands of Georgians fleeing from poverty and deprivation…

      • I just desperately wonder:
        fences around Guantanamo — to keep people OUT or IN???

        • “OUT” and “IN”. Like every other functioning prison camp in the world.

          Now you know, you’re welcome.

    • Another fact is that the guards’ guarding a prison are always located on the inside of a the fence or prison to stop the prisoners from escaping out. Just look at any prison or soviet border film to understand its meaning.

      Now in Mexico, the guards (U.S. personnel) are located on the outside of the fence to stop the Mexicans from invading into the U.S.

      But to explain the soviet absurdity of keeping their guards on the inside of their fence, they had the audacity to say that they were trying to keep the Western spies out of their territory. Nothing about keeping their oppressed comrades trapped in their so called socialist ‘paradise’ who would have otherwise fled West, to freedom.

      • Bogdan, where did you spent the last 20 years? …and why are you comparing Soviet prison guards to the US border guards? Soviet border guards, as far as I know have always been on the Soviet side of the border… and the US prison guards are not guarding prisons from outside their territories…

        • AT,

          And where have you been the last 40 years?… I know you have trouble comprehending reality or truth. Never mind just wait until your somogonka haze releases you from your la la land, you’ll feel better than.

          I know that you have trouble understanding English, but that’s your problem, and in your case that’s alright, just go back to sleep and I will wake you when the time is right. In the meantime do not hold your breath comrade.

          • Bohdan, what exactly are you trying to say?

          • Manfred Steifschwanz

            Boredan, I think you’d better take a break. It seems as if your standard of writing is fast approaching that of the drooling Pshek. Turn off your computer and do something sensible for a change.

            • Manfred Limpschwanz (the impotent),

              Me take notice of you, an inveterate communist liar. Ooh you are ‘funny’ in a sick way comrade – ha, ha, ha.

              Like I said before and I repeat myself again! Your cardinal sin is that you judge me by yourself.

              • Is this the case of that rare disorder when people see communists under their beds? I hope he does not decide to defenestrate himself screaming “Communists are coming”. This is rather spooky than boring.

              • Judging you by myself? Not really. After all, I’m a sensible person. Throwing tantrums à la brain damage this, inveterate liar that is way below me. It’s not my Schwanz but your brain which is “limpotent”.

                Hello Boredan my old friend
                I’ve come to shag with you again
                Because a hard-on softly creeping
                Left its seeds while I was sleeping
                And the wishes that were planted in my brain
                Still remain
                Within the realm of Steifschwanz

                • Manfreddo Limpschwanz (the impotent)

                  Hello “sicko,” Ooh do you go on lying comrade imbecile, unbelievably so. Your attempt at poetry is also a dismal ad nuuseam failure, so give up. Remember you don’t have to prove how idiotic or worthless you are – it’s a proven fact of life as far as you are concerned that will never change.

                  • Sorry Boredan: You missed a most convincing piece of evidence of dexterousness on my part. Paul Simon’s original lyrics slightly overlooked the rhyming in order to retain normal English verb conjugation:

                    “And the vision that was planted in my brain
                    Still remains
                    Within the sound of silence”

                    By using a plural subject (“the wishes”), I was able to correct that.

                    You’re a dead loss indeed, Boredan.

  5. Rts,, I agree with you that its not much better in other countries,,
    But you change the issue – cuz THIS site is about the problems in Russia, not in South-America..
    My another point was that Russian authorities , unlike Mexican or Honduras etc, do NOT allowed adoption outside of Russia 2011 while authorities themselves dont care that much about abandoned children..
    Russian authorities behave as the dogs in the manger preventing adoption to other countries while Russians themselves dont care about these children..
    There re about 2 millions homeless children in Russia and almost all of them are drugusers and prostitutes..Many of those children fled from the orphanages,,where they been abused

    • Well, Anja, Russia is poorer than the US, isn’t it, so it has far more serious problems in pretty much every area… There are also about 120 countries that are poorer than Russia where such problems are worse. So what is your point really? The fact that you improved your standard of living by moving from the world’s 56th richest country to the world’s 9th richest country? Not everyone can do that. Meanwhile, Russia almost tripled its GDP per capita during the last 20 years from $3.5K in 1990 to $10.5K in 2010 alleviating poverty and problems you are talking about much faster and much more effectively than most of the world’s countries.

      • Not really AT, the gap between rich and poor in Russia is massive. 40% of the population earn far less than they did in 1991.

        Of course you are a beneficiary of Russian government corruption by all accounts, as you so strenuously defend the system that grinds down the working people.

        • Idiot. Just an idiot. Go to the World Bank site and look up the poverty levels in 1991 and in 2011. Also look up the Gini coefficient for Russia and how different it is vs. most countries in Eastern Europe, America, and — what’s the hell — your native Kiwi country. One word for you: uneducated retard. Georgia is just the place for you.

          • What’s the hell, let’s educate the retard. Look up the chart on p.17. The poverty level in Russia in 1992 was comparable to what it is in Georgia now, around 33%. Today, its less than 13%.

            Click to access proj10a.pdf

            • You might find Gini coefficients for the 1990s in this report as well. Compare them to the actual Gini coefficients. Think. Then try to post about the gap between the rich and the poor in Russia.

              • Look, it’s time to accept a simple fact:

                Andrew can not count. Just can not say one number from another. Flawed Georgian education system, you know.

                Write to him in words, like, in the US there is a big gap, just like in Georgia and Australia, and in Sweden the gap is twice as narrow, and Russia is somewhere in between…

  6. Yet another example of sadistic, primitive American propaganda fit for idiots inside “GoodOl’ USA”.<<

    USA isn't perfect,,but Russia is much worse,I do know that cuz i was living in Russia..

    • Anja, in the US you separate poor from the rich and rich from the well-off. In Russia we don’t. That’s the reason why you’re so pessimistic abt Russia.

  7. To Anja:
    Despite the fact you were once living in Russia you seem to be sticking to American logic. I would gladly agree with you “USA isn’t perfect,,but Russia is much worse” on the condition of your giving me definitions of what is good and what is bad. In any other case your remark would seem pointless at best unless you meant yourself as yet another a person in the universe with all your private likes and dislikes. To put it blantly – I like dogs and dislike cats. So dogs are better. Did you meant this, kiddy?
    If you did – think before you say silly things next time.
    (Never miss a chance to keep your mouth shut – as they say in Texas.)
    I am dead sure you’ll be keeping a good company within the blog with the rotten logic like yours.

    To Andrew:
    Yes, you’re rught to a point with “At least the US has to build fences to keep people out, rather than you Russian vermin who used to have to build fences to keep people in…..”.

    It’s time to keep the US military in instead of sending them college money collectors out bombing distant preferably defenseless New Jersey size countries on the opposite side of the world in the name of democracy, freedom and waterboarding proven moral superiority of the US. The idea is very simple as it seems – if they do not them in, do not bomb them out in their homes in 10.000 miles from the US borders.
    Hopefully you got the message dr. Andrew.

  8. rts, you’re changing the subject. The issue is not that Russia is poor. There are plenty of countries poorer than Russia, that don’t force their orphans into prostitution and crime.

    And Russia isn’t poor anyway; the Russians are poor, but the country has immense resources and could be the richest country in the world. So what does that say about Russian political culture? And to be fair, the same goes to Ukraine and Belarus, countries that were privileged during the USSR (arguably even more so than Russia) but still wallow in poverty and underdevelopment. History shows us that the Eastern Slavs have never been able to rule themselves and escape poverty and backwardness, no matter what resources they had access to or how much they stole from their neighbors.

    • I have no idea why you are calling me RTS, but I am not changing the subject. What you are saying is nonsense: the poor the country, the more problems it has, including with orphans forced into prostitution and crime. Russia has more orphans forced into prostitution and crime than the US, but much fewer than Ukraine or Georgia or India, or even China. As far as whether the country poor or rich, this is never measured by the amount of resources a country has. It is measured by the amount of goods and services each of its citizens produces and consumes. Russia has made much more progress in becoming a richer country than any of its post-USSR peers (except for the Baltics) and raised many more orphans from crime and prostitution than, say Moldova or Uzbekistan. And whether a country is rich or not is not directly correlated by its “political culture”. India, which has been a true democracy for 50 years is miserably poor compared to Venezuela, (until recently) Libya, or, for this matter Russia. As what history teaches, people were saying the same of all the BRICST countries…

      • AT you are right that political culture does not directly correlate to a country’s general level of wealth. Very often, unfortunate circumstances are impossible to overcome even with the healthiest and most functional political culture, and with the most competent political leadership. And of course there are plenty of underdeveloped but democratic countries, or countries with a horribly dysfunctional political culture (such as Italy or Hungary) that are doing reasonably well economically.

        However, when a country consistently wallows in poverty, misery and backwardness, DESPITE extremely favorable circumstances (winning a world war, having a huge empire, milking half of Europe for half a century, having immense natural resources), then it is definitely a matter of dysfunctional political culture which produces inept political leadership. Same with Ukraine: despite extremely favorable historical circumstances, natural resources, and a ready-made industrial infrastructure built by the Russians, they’re even more backward than Russia, and are currently by far the poorest and most crime-infested country in Europe.

        • And you are completely overlooking the fact that the Soviet Union has provided the basic living standards quite comparable with those of the West in the 1960-1970s despite the country’s having been decimated by a war, a repressive political system and a highly inefficient economic system. You are also overlooking the fact that Russia almost tripled its national wealth during the last 20 years, despite a major change in the economic system and and with far less than an efficient political system. I would not quite describe this as “wallowing”. Also, its not clear who benefitted more from the Russian empire. Apart from three tiny countries that were bailed out by the West, all former supposed colonies are doing much worse than the supposed metropoly. This is understandable, as the nature of the Russian Empire was quite different from that of the British or the French empire, or King Leopold’s Congolese posessions. As an Empire, Russia was much closer to Austria-Hungary or to Prussia, with no economic “exploitation” of the supposed colonies by the supposed metropoly.

          • AT, you are an idiot, Russia certainly did economically exploit its colonies/imperial possessions, with the mass exploitation of resources such as grain, metals, etc, etc, etc all at the expense of the local populations.

            Not to mention committing the worst genocides of the 19th century, deliberate planned mass killings and deportations.

            Prussia certainly economically exploited its overseas empire, the German empire at home was actually just a copy of the United Kingdom.

            Try looking up the history of German SW Africa to see what they got up to.

            Also, which of Britains former colonies, aside from the USA, is doing better than the UK? Certainly not India, Uganda, etc.

            As usual your arguments are infantile, uneducated, and without logic or substance.

            • Well, Andrew, the retard is you. First of all, I never mentioned the German Empire did I. Second, Russia, like Austria-Hungary, like the contiguous Prussia, tried to achieve cultural assimilation in some of its parts, but all the subjects of the Empire and later of the Soviet Union were treated pretty much in the same way, and so were the territories. No first- or second-class citizens, like in the British Empire. Same taxes, same rights, same lifestyle, same literacy level, same salaries. No huge gaps in income, freedom to travel, educational levels like there were between India and the UK or Algiers and France or between Belgium and the Congo. Georgia’s and Ukrainian residents within the USSR had the same rights as, say the residents of Perm or Irkutsk. And the GDP per capita was the same pretty much everywhere. Now, an average Georgian makes 4 times less than an average Russian, and the GDP of Belarus is half of that in Russia. And this is after repeated claims that “Georgia is exploited by Russia” or that “Ukraine fees Russia”. Georgia, in particular, with the loss of the “metropoly” lost not only economic support, not only huge markets that fueled the republic’s informal economy in the 1970s and the 1980s, it lost culturally. Georgian film directors, writers and singers lost their audience, and the country’s culture, which used to play an important regional role is vanishing into the oblivion…

            • Oh. That’s why Georgian economy fallen three times below the Soviet times numbers during the first 10 years of Georgian independence.

          • Russia is by far the poorest country in Europe??? What about Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine, Belarus, most of the ex-Yugoslavian states, Turkey, Moldova? I have less info on the crime rate, but the basic street safety in Russia is well comparable to any of these countries.

            • Manfred, what you say about the Swedish bankers is right. I expect Russia’s GDP per capita to come very closer to those of the Baltics. Unfortunately, not because of a spectacular growth of the Russian economy but because of the bloodletting the yesterday’s benefactors inflicted on their protectorates when the money became more needed at home.

          • Manfred Steifschwanz

            AT, I suppose you were referring to the utter Nazi shitholes across the Baltic –“three tiny countries that were bailed out by the West”. If you were not, then never mind. I just wanted to point out that the Swedish banksters have bled these protectorates dry. They fit LR’s pet phrase “on the verge of collapse” perfectly. As an unintended result, a sovereign default in any of these three Swedish de facto colonies might very well hurl the Swedish banks towards the abyss too. Serves them right.

            Last but not least: Hats off to to

            • Manfred, what you say about the Swedish bankers is right. I expect Russia’s GDP per capita to come very closer to those of the Baltics. Unfortunately, not because of a spectacular growth of the Russian economy but because of the bloodletting the yesterday’s benefactors inflicted on their protectorates when the money became more needed at home.

          • Manfred Steifschwanz

            AT, I suppose you were referring to the utter Nazi shitholes across the Baltic –“three tiny countries that were bailed out by the West”. If you were not, then never mind. I just wanted to point out that the Swedish banksters have bled these protectorates dry. They fit LR’s pet phrase “on the verge of collapse” perfectly. As an unintended result, a sovereign default in any of these three Swedish de facto colonies might very well hurl the Swedish banks towards the abyss too. Serves them right.

            Last but not least: Hats off to a most accurate assessment of Russia’s civilized relationship with its near abroad.

  9. …and since Georgia says it is European, what about this Honduras on the Black Sea?

  10. AT you are either a fool or deliberately twisting things. The ideas that the Russian empire compares to Austria-Hungary or Prussia, or that Russia hasn’t exploited occupied territories economically are simply delusional. In fact, even today most of Russia’s resources are in fact not in Russia per se, but in various occupied “republics” (Tatarstan etc). And Austria-Hungary didn’t exploit its colonies? LOL Your grasp of history rivals Borat’s.

    And I didn’t say that Russia was the poorest country in Europe, for the simple reason that I don’t consider Russia to be part of Europe. Ukraine was the country I mentioned. And yeah, Central/Eastern Europe is indeed underdeveloped compared to Western Europe, for obvious reasons. While Western Europe was rebuilt with handouts from the US, the Eastern half of Europe was being pillaged by Russia. So what’s Russia’s excuse for its extreme backwardness? I can’t think of another empire that has been so inept in managing resources.

    • Its you who are delusional. First of all, its unclear why you are calling Tatarstan as “occupied”. Residents of Tatarstan have the same rights and enjoy the same responsibilities are residents, say of Nizhny Novgorod. Both regions enjoy the same standing vis-a-vis the Federal budget. So where is economic “exploitation”? Second, what are the facts of the economic “pillaging”. I can accept that Russia imposed inefficient economic system and limited political freedom in Eastern Europe, but what is one single fact of “pillaging”? And what “extreme backwardness” are you talking about. Last time I checked, there were about 50 countries that are reacher than Russia and about 120 countries poorer than Russia.

      • Or is it “enjoy the same rights and have the same responsibilities” ; )

      • It’s so cool when a Western person with Western traditions of colonialism and Western attitude to colonised people – and a nice complex about it – comes and says: Hey Russki, you occupy Tatarstan!:)))

        I say, hey Westerner, you occupy Americas!

    • Re: Your grasp of history rivals Borat’s.

      Oh, tell me, AWSOME ZADO, tell me the sad stories of Vienna’s treatment of Budapest and Prague was similar to how London treated Delhi and Bombay and to how Bruxelles treated Leopoldville and Kinshasa… And then Andrew will tell me the tale of exploitation of Hanover, Hesse-Kassel, Nassau and Frankfurt by Prussia …

  11. AT, I hate to resort to the ad hominems that are so frequent on this blog, but Andrew is right, you really are an imbecile. What is the purpose of empires, if not economic exploitation? Are empires charity ventures in your delusional little brain?

    If you’re not aware of how Russia bled dry Eastern Europe after WWII, well, then read up, I’m not going to provide you with an education. Next you’ll be asking me what Hitler ever did wrong, or what is the Holocaust.

    And colonial Bombay was better off than any colonial city of the Russian empire at the time. Hell, it was probably better off than any ex-Soviet city today outside the Baltics. And go to any former British colony in Africa and you’ll see that a lot of the older people are nostalgic of colonial times and generally hold the Brits in high esteem. I wonder why things are quite the opposite in Russia’s former colonies.

    • You missed the last 20 years, dude:

      1) There are now MILLIONS less Ukrainians and Georgians, than there were in the Soviet Union.
      2) They do not have 2-3 children no more, like they did in Soviet times.
      3) Their economies are destroyed. Not “virtually destroyed”, quite naturally. Both are failing states. Average (working) person living for about 200$ a month in Ukraine and 50+% jobless in Georgia may well prove this fact.
      4) They have no modern culture. I can name 10s of great artists from both countries in Soviet times, but during the last 20 years there’s just no great artists in either country.

      And now you come and tell us they lived in an empire, like British one was? And that they are finally free from submission, like that of India under Britain?

      I’d say you’re wrong in your parrallels, dude.

  12. Idiot, just an idiot:
    Re: “What is the purpose of empires, if not economic exploitation?” Erm, what is the purpose of a national state? what is a purpose of a multinational republic. Retard.

    Re: “If you’re not aware of how Russia bled dry Eastern Europe after WWII, well, then read up, I’m not going to provide you with an education”. Not just one example? Liar.

    Re: “And colonial Bombay was better off than any colonial city of the Russian empire at the time. Hell, it was probably better off than any ex-Soviet city today outside the Baltics. And go to any former British colony in Africa and you’ll see that a lot of the older people are nostalgic of colonial times and generally hold the Brits in high esteem. I wonder why things are quite the opposite in Russia’s former colonies.” — An idiot and a liar.

    • As for go to any former British colony… I’ve been to many more of those than you would ever hope to visit. And you lie.

  13. AT, how typical of a Russian monkey to resort to insults when unable to articulate arguments. As I said, if you want to learn about what Russia did in occupied Europe, read up. Every country they occupied was plundered. It’s not my fault that you’re an uneducated chump, like so many of your countrymen.

    As for that fact that you don’t understand the difference between an empire and a national state, that only serves as additional evidence to your sheer stupidity.

    • How typical of an anonymous monkey to accuse others exactly of the same thing he/she is guilty of. I’ve read enough to make my statements. Now, argue your position. Based on what I know, there are no reason to say that (i) the USSR occupied any country of Eastern Europe for any extended period of time and (ii) any country in Eastern Europe was “plundered” by the Soviet Union. Now, its up to you to provide evidence of the contrary, since one cannot provide evidence of the absense of a fact. And were not you the first one who resorted to insults having failed to provide evidence? And I realize differences between an empire and a national state, but I reject the fact that economic exploitation is a fundamental difference or a necessary attribute of a multinational state, whatever shape or form it takes.

      • Well, moron, trying to place the burden of truth on me when it comes to well known facts is a bit like asking me to prove that the Holocaust existed. There is plenty of information out there that you could access, but you could start with, for example, this: http://libcom.org/library/Hungary565

        Now that we’ve covered economic exploitation, do you really live in a cave and are unaware that Russian troops were in Central Europe for decades? And do the centuries of occupation of countries like the Baltics, Belarus or Ukraine count as an “extended period of time”? How about the nations that are still under Russian occupation? (Tatars. Chechens, Udmurts, Kalmyks

        I once heard a Russian girl say that Lenin invented electricity. Many other Russians believe similarly crazy things: that WWII started in 1941, or that the USSR “liberated” Europe. You people never cease to amaze me.

        And one last thing. Not all multinational states are empires, moron (that would mean Switzerland is an empire?)

        World English Dictionary
        empire (ˈɛmpaɪə) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

        — n
        1. an aggregate of peoples and territories, often of great extent, under the rule of a single person, oligarchy, or sovereign state

        • Ok. First, what about providing some actually credible source of information. You don’t mean I should take an anarchist site seriously, do you? Second, does the presence of military bases equal to occupation? How many countries is the US occupying by now? By your last definition, the US is an empire: an aggregate of peoples and territories under the rule of a sovereign state. Switzerland is also an empire by this definition since “the great extent” is not a necessary attribute of an empire by this definition.

          • What would constitute a “credible” source for you, AT? Pravda Online? The things mentioned in that article (the warped “trade” system, the SovRoms etc) are pretty well documented, and you could find out more for yourself if you were able to read anything except Pravda.

            Military occupation does count as well, occupation, dummy. That’s why it’s called military *occupation*. Having military bases with the CONSENT of the host country has nothing to do with military occupation.

            As for your reading comprehension skills, sigh, you’re a lost cause. So Switzerland and the US are a group of nations subjugated by a sovereign or oligarchy, or a centralized state? What planet do you come from?

            • Last time I checked Pravda.ru was a yellow press tabloid, so it is really close to the anarchist site you linked your post to. What is a good source. Hm, an economic study by a reputable professor, for sure. A Word Bank report, any time. A major university-endorsed thesis, possibly. Military occupation. Hm, the Soviet Union had consent of all the Eastern Block governments to station troops in these countries, didn’t it. As for reading skills, I challenge you to find the verb “subjugate” in your definition. “Under the rule of” means “governed by” and both the US and Switzerland are sovereign states. And the rule their territories and peoples. So whose skills are in doubt?

              • There is plenty of historical research on the Soviet plunder of Central and Eastern Europe. As for “consent”, yet another example of Soviet logic. So the military occupation of the so-called “Eastern bloc” was based on the “consent” of the puppet governments set up by the occupying troops? Well, in that case, there is no such thing as an invasion or an occupation, and even the Nazi occupation of, say, Yugoslavia, was based on “consent”.

                Please tell me, who are the emperors of the US and Switzerland? And what is the name of the Herrenvolk that rules over subaltern nations in the US and Switzerland?

                • As far as your last statement is concerned, I am only using your definition. There is nothing in it saying that an empire should be ruled by an emperor. Again, don’t judge others comprehension skills exposing your own lack of such. If you would like to consider other definitions, please be my guest.

                  As for the “puppet” governments, they all were recognized as legitimate governments by all other the world as legitimate governments of their countries. Not one single country claimed the Soviet military presence constituted an “occupation” more than the presence of American troops in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Germany or the Philippines.

                  As for your appeals to “common knowledge” and “plenty of research”, what is one single example documented in a reputable source. Again, a major research institution thesis or just Wikipedia would do. Let’s discuss the details, the context and see whether this can be considered as “plundering”.

                  • As far as serious sources are concerned, come back when you read these for example — let’s take Hungary as an example, as we will surely debate both benefits and losses for East European countries from their trade with the Soviet Union, won’t we. Then we will try to quantify both and will try to come up with a consensus whether it was plundering or subsidization or something in between. Right?

                    Marrese, Michael and Jan Vanous (1983). Soviet Subsidization of CMEA Trade with
                    Eastern Europe, Berkeley University of California Press.

                    Marrese,M ichael and LaurenW ittenberg( 1990). “Implicit Trade Subsidies Within the
                    CMEA: A Hungarian Perspective,Northwestern University

                    • Ze do Caixao

                      Look AT, you may be a full time internet warrior, but I don’t have time to compile a bibliography for you. I already gave you one academic source, with specific examples, and you can check the footnotes and let me know what exactly is that you challenge. If you are a wikipedia fan, you could also enter search terms like Soviet war crimes, Soviet occupation and I’m sure you’ll find plenty of info. I see there’s an entire wiki entry on the SovRoms for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRom

                      Could you also name one Communist government in Eastern Europe that was elected democratically? But eh, I don’t know why I’m bothering. This kind of discussion goes on and on. I can’t keep discussing historical issues with someone who not only has zero knowledge of history, but also insists on making random and outrageous statements. So, ok, maybe on your planet Switzerland has an emperor, Stalin was a sweetheart, and Eastern Europe benefited from Soviet “liberation”, but on planet Earth things are very different.

                      And here’s a more precise definition of empire, since you love wikipedia:
                      An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture[3] — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.

                      So who is the imperial ethnic group in Switzerland and the US?

                    • Well, have I ever claimed that Switzerland is an empire? I said that your first definition of an empire sucks so much that Switzerland can fit into it.

                      As for occupation, US forces are in Saudi Arabia by the invitation of the Saudi Government. The Saudi Government is not elected last time I checked. Does this mean US occupies Saudi Arabia?

                      As for SovRoms, those existed during the relatively brief occupation of Romania, a hostile country in the WWII by the Soviet Uniton, the winning party. And they were to an extent instruments of ensuring that Romania pays for the damage it had inflicted during its aggression against the USSR. Still, the Soviet occupation of Romania did not last for “decades” as you claimed, but hardly a decade and a half.

                      Now, with your second definiton of an empire, what suggests that empires are based on economic exploitation, but not on the same principles as ethnic states or federations?

                      As you see, you are a deeply confused, poorly informed individual. You need to read more before you write.

                      And I post only (i) when I am on a sick leave and (ii) when I travel and bored to death waiting for airplane connections.

                    • Now, is the United States an empire by your definition? It is is a state with politico-military dominion of populations (African Americans, Asians, Hispanics) who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the ruling ethnic group and its culture (European Americans) — just don’t tell me Obama is African American, Russian Czars were hardly ethnically Russian either.

  14. AT, one of the wonders of this site is how people like you, with pathetic reading comprehension skills (unable to understand even simple definitions), zero knowledge of history, and inability to understand even basic logic (you can’t even see the connection between imperialism and economic exploitation), can accuse anyone of being “confused”. It’s pretty clear you hail from the same island as your friend Bohdan, if you catch my drift.

    I think it’s a quirk of World War II history that countries which were invaded by the USSR ended up paying war “reparations” to their aggressor, and that Hitler’s main ally became the “liberator” of Europe. But I’m not going to keep going into WWII history, especially not with someone who’s too ignorant to have an informed point of view, my initial point was that despite winning a world war and despite all the plundering (call it “reparations” or any other euphemism you will) Russia never evolved into a developed country. At least the Brits, French, Austrians etc were smarter about using the wealth they plundered from other countries.

    As for the US being an “empire”, you’d have to be either very stupid, or blinded by Cold War-era leftist platitudes, or a member of some crackpot group like the Nation of Islam to make such an argument. Ah yes, Obama is in fact “European American”, and African Americans are a distinct nation from “European Americans” (whatever the fuck that means). You really hit the nail on the head there, AT. Not.

    • Well, if by plundering you mean reparations Russia charged from Romania, I give it to you. I have very little sympathy for the post-war Romania and whatever price it had to pay for siding with Russia’s enemy was too small. As for your other statements, well again, accusing others of what you are have so clearly demonstrated you are guilty yourself is a typical rant of bitter Russophobes. Keep ranting, your confused, illiterate person. You even fail to explain what you think an empire is, and then get surprised and indignant how, based on your own words, Switzerland and the US suddenly have to have emperors. Open up your mind and clean the clutter in your head before trying to argue anything.

      • Well, it’s only typical of subhuman Russian filth like yourself to call others what you yourself clearly are. After clearly demonstrating a woeful lack of historical knowledge or ability to articulate anything resembling a coherent argument (which, to be fair to you, might just be attributed to Russian “education”), your only resort is just parroting what I pointed out about you (“no no, you’re confused”, “no no, you’re illiterate”) just like a stupid little kid. You’re pathetic, AT.

        And then I’m not surprised by your psychopathic chauvinistic rants. I’m not surprised you “don’t have any sympathy” for anyone who fought back against Russian aggression, just as you don’t have any sympathy for those who didn’t fight back and were “allies” of Russia but still got occupied and plundered (Poland for example). Russians don’t even have sympathy for their own countrymen, or any dose of self-respect or self-preservation instinct; those are all alien concepts for you.

        • Romania fought against the Russian aggression alongside with Hitler against Russia in WWII. And you say you are literate and not confused? A typical subhuman Russophobe reaction. A lie like the rest of your statements.

        • As for the inability to articulate a coheren argument, Ze, I thought that what you have clearly demonstrated here. Really pathetic.

        • Ze do Caixao, it’s not you’re outright stupid, it’s just you don’t have guts to imagine you may not be right. And your teachers that taught you may not right too. And that there are numbers and statistics that contradict their propaganda, and that numbers are more credible.

          Your problem is lack of courage to accept the facts. And then you’ll have no need to retreat to ad hominems.

      • So AT, Russia should pay massive reparations to all countries occupied by Nazi Germany then.

        After all, Russia was the great facilitator of Nazi militarism by its supply of vital resources to Hitlers war machine.

        And lets not forget, loathsome as the Nazi’s were, they were amateurs compared to the Russians in the mass murder stakes…..

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