EDITORIAL: Sean Guillory, Damnable Liar


Sean Guillory, Damnable Liar

Yeah, you're better without the mouth, Mr. Guillory. Much better.

Sean Guillory, an avowed Marxist and atheist, has been blogging about Russia since October 2004.  In the six and a half years since then, according to the counter on his blog, he has received just under 310,000 visits — that’s less than 50,000 per year, less than 140 per day.

By contrast La Russophobe, which has only been blogging for five years, has received nearly 2.8 million visits — that’s almost 560,000 per year, more than 1,500 per day.  In other words, we have over ten times more traffic than Sean.

The reason for that is pretty simple. Sean tells lies about Russia, and sensible people aren’t interested in lies.

On February 18, 2011, in a comment responding to a comment from Jeremy Putley, Sean wrote:

I’ll just say this much. First, it doesn’t surprise me that someone who works for an investment company to be a partisan for Khorodkovsky. When it comes to generating fictitious capital, MBK is one of the gods in the investment pantheon.

Sean’s post was about attempting to minimize the significance of revelations by Natalia Vasileva, the aide to Viktor Danilkin (the judge who recently sentenced Mikhail Khodorkovsky to more years in a Russian prison in Siberia), that Khodorkovsky’s trial was rigged by the Kremlin.  In all honesty, to us the post and Sean’s comments upon it read like Sean was high on drugs when he wrote them.

For instance, perusing the quotation above, do you notice how Sean didn’t pause for a second to wonder whether someone like himself, who is an avowed Marxist, might not be too credible on the question of whether a capitalist like Khodorkovsky had been falsely imprisoned? To wonder whether he might look like ridiculous baboon impugning anyone else’s objectivity on that question? It’s quite breathtaking, isn’t it?  But that’s what you get if you’re a SRB reader.  Lies and deception, self-delusion and nonsense.  It’s why folks tend to stay away.

On February 20, 2011, in another comment responding to a comment on the same post, Guillory stated:

On Khodorkovsky’s theft and possible involvement in murder. It’s funny. Before MBK was crushed by Putin, the Western press had no illusions about his antics. In 1997, the NY Times accused MBK of looting funds from the Bank of New York. From reading David Hoffman’s account of how MBK wrestled control of Yukos through setting up shell companies and offshore accounts it seems clear that he was a swindler. But now that MBK is a victim of Putin, that past has been whitewashed, and now no Western paper would dare besmirch his good name. The thing I don’t understand about the whole MBK thing is why he’s the alpha and omega. Why does he get so much attention? Yeah, sure he was targeted by Putin and remains so. I get that. But why has MBK been turned into some kind of saintly martyr? Why does he, of all people, generate so much passion? And yes one can be outraged at both the conduct of the trial against MBK and how he got his money. I just wish that that outrage at the system revolved around a more sympathetic figure, or at least one I think got his comeuppance.

It wasn’t 1997 when the Times published reports about Khodorkovsky, it was 1999.  The Times didn’t write about Khodorkovsky at all in 1997.  Did you know that Sean was a professor of history?  Odd he could be wrong about a thing like that, isn’t it? Especially since it’s not hard to check such facts, just go to the Times Topic for Khodorkovsky and click the “oldest first” button to display its articles in that date order.

And in April 1999, when the Times did first write about Mr. K,  it clearly pointed out that Khodorkovsky was no different than Jay Gould, who was never arrested by the U.S. government of course.  Nor, of course, was Mr. K ever charged with any crime by any Western prosecutor at any time.  But Sean didn’t care to mention any of that. Maybe he has a mental block where people like Jay Gould and Mikhail Khodorkovsky are concerned. Oh, wait a minute, that’s right. He does.

What’s more, in January 2003, many months before Khodorkovsky was arrested by the Kremlin as he tried to begin a presidential bid, the Times prominently reported how Khodorkovsky was leading the charge to implement Western-style honesty and transparency in Russian corporate life.  So actually, it’s perfectly clear why the West was appalled by his clearly political arrest and his neo-Soviet show trial.  And the only reason Sean doesn’t “understand” that is because his mind is too clouded with his own noxious, unprofessional, disgraceful lies.

So Russian “history” according to Sean Guillory is a very surreal place indeed.  And that’s just Sean’s comments on his own post.  Dare you imagine what the actual contents of that post might be like?

Start with the headline.  in his February 20th comment, Sean states:  “I’m not doubting Vasileva’s sincerity. I don’t think she’s lying, nor do I actually doubt her claims.”  Rather odd, then, that the headline of the post should be “Vasileva Bombshell: Big Claims, Little Evidence,” isn’t it?  One could almost think Sean was about five years old, regurgitating such sophomoric inconsistency.

Then move on to the premise:  Khodorkovsky is dirty, and Western approval of him is crazy.  But if that’s true, why in the world would the Kremlin need to rig Khodorkovsky’s trial? As is his wont, Sean doesn’t care to say. He doesn’t need to, you see, because everyone knows that everything Sean says is and must be true.

Another premise of so-called “liberal” Guillory is that there’s no such thing as rehabilitation.  Khodorkovsky was corrupt in the early 1990s, there’s no doubt of it. He could hardly have been otherwise, since every single person in the country was corrupt. Even today, international studies prove conclusively that Russia is one of the most corrupt major civilizations on this planet, top to bottom, side to side. But unlike, say, Vladimir Putin, Khodorkovsky came around. He realized that honesty was the better policy, and he put his money where his mouth was. He was actually turning his oil concern into an open, accountable, reasonable business by the strictest Russian standards when he was arrested by the Kremlin. That means absolutely nothing to Guillory, though. He doesn’t see fit to mention it. Probably Guillory’s hero is Stalin: Any capitalist makes a mistake, you kill them.  It’s the reason countries run by the likes of Guillory and Stalin always collapse into rubble.

Then there is the actual text of Guillory’s post, which reads like it issued from an opium den.  The first time Sean tries to make a factual assertion on his own, it’s pretty bizarre:  “I’m sure this theory is out there somewhere, Vasileva’s revelation, in particular, will pave the way for Medvedev to ‘pardon’ Khodorkovsky by pointing to his favorite pet project: fighting corruption.” He so sure, in fact, that he doesn’t need to check or document his claim in any manner whatsoever. We can take his word. Umm, yeah.

This comes next:  “What has thus far made Vasileva’s whistleblowing fundamentally different from several of those cases above is that they either personally participated in said corruption or provided documents proving it.”  Sean seems to have forgotten that Vasileva was the judge’s aid and assisted him in carrying out his duties. She’s an eyewitness.  She’s testifying about what she saw happen with her own two eyes.  Duh!  One wonders if Sean was high on drugs when he wrote that sentence.

Then Sean asks Vasileva to produce documents to “prove” she’s right. What documents? What documents did Vasileva refer to as being in existence?  None. In fact, Sean quotes her as follows:  “When there is total control, there is no need to read it, you just need to ask what is in it.”  So there were oral discussions, not smoking-gun written documents.  It seems not even Sean Guillory reads the things written on his own blog. The actual judgment itself, Vasileva claims, was written for Danilikin, and that document has already been published by Danilikin himself.  Nobody has claimed the Kremlin sent the document to Danilikin in an e-mail saying “here’s how you’ll rule.”

What’s more, Sean doesn’t care to mention, Danilikin himself has not denied the reports.  For all we know, Vasileva went public with Danilikin’s blessing.

Sean asks how the judge’s own aid could be “absolutely sure” that the sentence was delivered by the Kremlin.  It’s one of the most idiotic questions we’ve ever heard.  She was there, in a position to watch it happen, that’s how. Sean writes about Khodorkovsky that he is “nothing but a crook and deserves what he gets” yet he himself admits there is no judicial process that has come close to proving this.  In other words, Sean has no direct evidence at all of Khodorkovsky’s guilt, yet dares to challenge Vasileva, who was there to see the events happen.

Oh but wait, he doesn’t challenge her.  He admits he believes she’s telling the truth, and that he trashed her to undermine a famous capitalist, who he hates for because of his blind, rabid ideology, in a shameless smear campaign.

Which is why nobody reads Sean Guillory.

93 responses to “EDITORIAL: Sean Guillory, Damnable Liar

  1. Hm, Guillory… sounds like a rare venereal disease.

  2. “Sean Guillory” from the one side, LR – from another. What’s the difference ? No any…just similar to left and right “ultra” in political marker.
    Truth is always in the middle.

    • You say that, yet you don’t point out any lie that LR has told, whereas we point out quite a number coming from the leftist.

    • “Truth is always in the middle”? Always? Really? Well, truth was certainly NOT in the middle when the Nazis and Soviets invaded Poland. Truth was on the side of the Poles. Period.

      • Simon… Truth is that neither Nazi, nor USSR have any connection to the Russia today. Truth is that mentioning Poland on 1939-th is off-top and “blah-blah-blah”…Truth is that said awful tradegy of Poland in 1939th is nothing else, but the logical end of the policy the Pilsudsky’ govertment run for few years, “dancing” with Nazi and dreaming about redivision of the World together with Nazi. (“Polsko-niemiecka deklaracja o niestosowaniu przemocy”-1934; quarrel with France which was calling for unity against Nazi; rejection call for unity from Czechoslovakia; attack onto Czechoslovakia together with Nazi; etc…) Even in 1938, main political trend in Poland was flwg:

        Sorry, if the history doesn’t suit you ! Nothing against Poles, but…your Government was same same kind as many others///
        think the first

        • @quarrel with France which was calling for unity against Nazi

          You’ve got to be kidding me. Poland (Pilsudski personally) offered France to jointly and preemptively invade Hitler’s Germany first before the Germans would re-arm (in 1933), it was the French who rejected this idea.

          @“dancing” with Nazi and dreaming about redivision of the World together with Nazi. (“Polsko-niemiecka deklaracja o niestosowaniu przemocy”-1934

          In 1932 (two years EARLIER) Poland signed a non-agression pact (“deklaracja o niestosowaniu przemocy” means just that) with the USSR too, was this also evil? And guess who broke it in 1939, in actual alliance with Hitler?

          Here’s the Polish-Soviet pact (“about redivision of the World together with Soviet”, I guess) of 1932 in a pdf form in Polish and in Russian:

          Click to access Soviet-Polish_Non-agression_pact_1932.pdf

          You nashist idiots seriously think everyone is as retarded/brainwashed as you, so your silly lies would go unchallenged?

          • Вов, post just prooves that no one “extract” from history on the particular day, can be truth ! And nothing else… particularly regarding France/Nazi/Poland, the paramount issue that in 1932 neither France not Poland takes Nazi so seriously…and in 1934 and later – it was too late. But it does not change the picture, that in 1934 the Poland signed with Nazi absolutely the same Pact as USSR did later. And that Poland, together with Nazi, did the same with Czechoslovakia, as USSR with Nazi did with Poland few years later.
            Concerning the rest about “nashist” and stupid trash around ))) It’s either sign of progressive sclerosis, or…pure negligence during your 24hrs duty/shift handover )

            • In 1932 (when Poland probably conspired “about redivision of the World together with Soviet” by signing the non-aggression pact with the USSR first, or something?) the NSDAP was simply not at power in Germany yet, so an idea of invading Germany for reason there’s some German opposition party that needs to be put down would be a little bit extreme, don’t you you think?

              Which doesn’t mean Poland didn’t oppose Germany anyway even back then – for example, the “trade war”, ruinous for both countries economically. All this started just after WWI, when Polish insurgents and remnants of German army backed by the Freikorps (volunteer paramilitaries, later largely formed the Nazi SA) fought bitter a conflict for disputed areas, in case of Silesia for several years, and thousands of people were killed on both sides (and caught in the middle). Pilsudski always feared the German revanchism as much as the Soviet “revolutionary” aggression, the anvil-and-hammer situation.

              France had no such problems with Germany until several years after Hitler’s rise to power, and their only real response (besides forming a military alliance with Poland and the UK) was just bunkering themselves in, literally (a form of isolationism really – didn’t work very well for them in 1940).

              Anyway as I said, the Polish non-aggression pact with the USSR came first, long before such a pact with Germany. And there is nothing wrong with just non-aggression pacts as such, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was evil (that’s the right word) because of its secret protocols.

      • On the other hand, maybe Russians admit they were partly responsible for the Nazi invasion?

        • And their part was 50%, exactly the same as Hitler’s. They will never admit that, don’t you agree.

          • How did you compute 50%?

            • 1 is 50% of 2.

              But the truth is some responsibility goes also to the third aggressor of this invasion, that is the Nazi-puppet army of fascist Slovakia, which is a very-little known fact. Their part win the attack was very small, though (just some border areas, causing rather few fatalities counted in dozens or so). It was the same army that later has also invaded the USSR too, and in 1944 they largelly rebelled in the Slovak Uprising.

        • Ask them…maybe they aceept it…but as a partition the only, same as brits and americans, who helped Nazi to bild their power up.

      • Hey Simon,

        And where was the truth when Nazi Germany, Poland and fascist Hungary divided up Czechoslovakia between themselves in 1938 with the help form the British?

        • Germany has admitted its guilt, at least with respect to the world Jewry and to Poland, and paid billions upon billions in reparations, especially to Jews but also very significant amounts to Poland. To say nothing that Poland got a lot of German land after the war too.

          Now, how much has your beloved Fatherland pay to Poland? Bubkes, nothing as far as I know. On top of that, Russians still try to prove that the invasion of Poland was a right thing and it was all Pilsudski’s fault.

          • Exactly as much as Poland paid to Czechoslovakia. Plus it gave to Poland a lot of German land after the war too.

            • Because Poles murdered hundreds of thousands of Czechs,like the Soviets in Poland, too. Or maybe just thousands. Or hundreds. Or dozens. Or several.


              And that’s unlike the Czechs, who murdered thousands of former Czechoslovak citziens during and after WWII, especially ethnic Germans, some of whom were even murdered by the former collaborators.

          • So ? The only background for this ping-pong like is… “Money, money, money. Must be funny…”(c)

  3. Return the deleted post:

    The LR blog is also quickly dying. Look at all last editorials — they are getting ridiculously low (and rapidly decreasing) numbers of comments, with main comments coming from two paid srakatvello trolls “Robert” and “Andrew” who bother everybody by multiple posts that are 1000 lines long. Anyways, that’s a collapse (or a verge of collapse) of LR!

    • nice try, casasrasa, but not – but as we all know everything is relative – retarded russians think that their country is doing great; in spite of almost non-existant russian army [50% muslim], the russian fleet that should be in prehistoric museum – the most modern russian ship is 35-years old, chinese retaking siberia without a single shot being shot, 50% of the young russians are edicted to Afghan heroin; the other 50% are incurable drunks, and Kursk, of course, is on a secret underwater mission, tracking down Americans ……

      • Mccusa, the Russian army is 50% Muslims? Only if the Polish army is 90% Down syndrome sufferers.

        • And how many Muslims were drafted in Russia last year, compared to non-Muslims?

        • I know, I know, ruskiy obostranyi bednashka, the truth is painful but you have to accept reality. Denial wouldn’t change anything. And yes, dearie, the “Kursk’ joy and pride of russian fleet, is rotting at the bott0m of the sea and is not on the secret underwater mission fighting americans you retarded russian morons. By the way, some of those 50% russians in your army were ‘immortalized’ on the video – by their heroic action – stealing black and white TV sets and toilet seats from the Georgian peasants…..

      • Manfred Steifschwanz

        Judging by our little Pshek’s literary skills — literally litter — not even Afghan heroin would make much difference. To top it all, he believes we’re ever more impressed by his inane rantings.

        • kleine schwaine,

          Judging by our little katsap’s literary skills – literally litter – tripple the dosage of samogon and heroin might help you to accept reality under chinese….

          • Manfred Steifschwanz

            Being the complete utter imbecile and scum that you are, the eerie corollary question inevitably becomes how much your IQ and your outright depravity deviate, if at all, from the Polish average. Forever substituting this violently insane anti-Russian psychobabble for sensible arguments sort of sheds light not only on yourself but on your country too.

            • Wow, floppy calling someone else scum, thats a bit rich.

              Of course, floppy is the sort of person who adores the USSR and the mass murdering ways of communism, enough said about his character I guess.

              • Manfred Steifschwanz

                Honestly, are you really happy about mccusa’s contributions here? If so, then my drunkards-on-a-park-bench analogy fits the upper echelons at LR perfectly.

  4. I’m only here because this was referenced by Sublime Oblivion.
    It’s another boring tirade about Khodorkovsky, but thank you for the Times article that reminded me just what Khodorkovsky (or any oligarch) was all about:

    “The 39-year-old tycoon does not pretend that he was struck by a revelatory flash on the road to Damascus. Being nice to investors and honest in the market, he says, ”in the short term is to your advantage.” He really doesn’t need to elaborate. Investors have snapped up the cleaner, whiter Yukos, in the process raising Mr. Khodorkovsky’s stake to more than $7 billion and quite possibly making him the richest man in Russia.”

  5. Generally…suggest to cease trash re Poles , russinas and others in WWII…all the participants paid more than enough by their blood and lives. They only my point was the Poles to stop advancing Poland as “the most aggrieved party” and “main victims”, as their politicians do day-by-day for years.

  6. Let me reveal the dirtiest little secret from the WV II – huge number of russian collaborators THE VLASOV’S ARMY. All of them deserted the red army [Vlasov was a general in the red army] and joined the Nazis, took orders from Hitler and slaughtered millions in the name of Nazi. And yet they weren’t truly appreciated by the Germans – the Germans NEVER considered them human…..

  7. …same as many others…and what ? All of them are treated by russians as traitors. Exepts little few “russian liberals” (whom you like so much).

  8. 2 mccusa… In fighting nazi/russians in Kursk area (during WWII) on germans forces were presented by TD SS “Großdeutschland” + PD 225 + PD 332. And in nazi’s “PD 332” 40% was Poles (thanks to Wiki). If to follow to your “logic” – all the poles were “collaborators” ? Don’t shake air for nothing…

    • Aw come on dear Aboanus,

      You do go on with your ridiculous soviet lying trash!! for your information the “Großdeutschland” German division was an elite ARMY (German “Heer”) and not SS, as you so incorrectly state. What next chum? that the Luftwaffe was an SS formation as well?

      You’re a wasted space comrade. So be good enough to crawl back into that slime hole that serves you as a home, and all that ‘somogonka’ too.

      • Shill out and read my post one more time. Where were no any poles in “Großdeutschland” due to they are same grade “slaves” for Nazi as the russians. But 40% of “PD 332”, which act together with “Großdeutschland”(when attacking Kursk) …were Poles. Moreover, during WWII there were captured total about 62k poles for fighting on Nazi side. Commies did not publish it out widely due to purely political reasons… And in no way that FACTS say that Poles were fans of Nazi. They fight a lot against Nazi from start to end, and paid out their price by blood and lives. So, do not try to line up the people using few examples of collaborationists. Also, as per Wiki, in fighting with Nazi for Poland, Red Army and Voisko Polsko lost total about 1 million lives… So, you better to pipe down…

        • @But 40% of “PD 332″, which act together with “Großdeutschland”(when attacking Kursk) …were Poles.

          Not “Poles”, but the Volksdeutsche, the German-Folk – ethnic Germans (and those treated as Germans, like many Silesians and Pomeranians) living in the former Polish territories.

          Sometimes they were qualified as Volksdeutsche against their will, because an alternative for refusing this status was a concentration camp as a race traitor.

          YadVashem about the Volksdeutsche:

          Click to access Microsoft%20Word%20-%206345.pdf

          I have a proposal for you: stop discussing WWII if you are so damn ignorant you only know the things you hear at the Nashi meetups/Russian TV/whatever sources of “knowledge” for idiots.

          A classic film about Volksdeutsche in the Pomerania:

      • You’re right, “Großdeutschland” was Panzergrenadier Division…does it change a picture somehow ? In getting stuck to argue to the main issue, you try to deviate to the details… Owned ! )

        • Actually, there was very little Polish collaboration at all, only around 7000 people out of a population of 35,000,000

          Much less than in Greece it turns out.

          Unlike in most European countries occupied by Nazi Germany — where the Germans sought and found true collaborators among the locals — in occupied Poland there was no official collaboration either at the political or at the economic level.[39][40] Poland also never officially surrendered to the Germans. Under German occupation, the Polish army continued to fight underground, as Armia Krajowa and forest partisans – Leśni. The Polish resistance movement in World War II in German-occupied Poland was the largest resistance movement in all of occupied Europe.[41] As a result, Polish citizens were unlikely to be given positions of any significant authority.[39][40] The vast majority of the pre-war citizenry collaborating with the Nazis was the German minority in Poland which was offered one of several possible grades of the German citizenship.[42] In 1939, before the German invasion of Poland, 800,000 people declared themselves as members of the German minority in Poland mostly in Pomerania and Western Silesia. During the war there were about 3 million former Polish citizens of German origin who signed the official list of Volksdeutsche.[40] People who became Volksdeutsche were treated by Poles with special contempt, and the fact of them having signed the Volksliste constituted high treason according to the Polish underground law.
          There is a general consensus among historians that there was very little collaboration with the Nazis among the Polish nation as a whole, compared to other German-occupied countries.[39][40][43] Depending on a definition of collaboration (and of a Polish citizen, based on ethnicity and minority status), scholars estimate number of “Polish collaborators” at around several thousand in a population of about 35 million (that number is supported by the Israeli War Crimes Commission).[44] The estimate is based primarily on the number of death sentences for treason by the Special Courts of the Polish Underground State. Some estimates are higher, counting in all members of the German minority in Poland and any former Polish citizens declaring their German ethnicity (Volksdeutsche), as well as conscripted members of the Blue Police, low-ranking Polish bureaucrats employed in German occupational administration, and even workers in forced labor camps (ex. Zivilarbeiter and Baudienst). Most of the Blue Police were forcibly drafted into service; nevertheless, a significant number acted as spies for Polish resistance movement Armia Krajowa.[43] John Connelly quoted a Polish historian (Leszek Gondek) calling the phenomenon of Polish collaboration “marginal” and wrote that “only relatively small percentage of Polish population engaged in activities that may be described as collaboration when seen against the backdrop of European and world history”.[43]
          In October 1939, the Nazis ordered the mobilization of the pre-war Polish police to the service of the occupational authorities. The policemen were to report for duty or face death penalty.[45] Blue Police was formed. At its peak in 1943, it numbered around 16,000.[46] Its primary task was to act as a regular police force and to deal with criminal activities, but were also used by the Germans in combating smuggling, resistance, and in measures against the Polish (and Polish Jewish) population: for example, it was present in łapankas (rounding up random civilians for labor duties) and patrolling for Jewish escapees from the ghettos. Nonetheless many individuals in the Blue Police followed German orders reluctantly, often disobeyed German orders or even risked death acting against them.[47][48][49] Many members of the Blue Police were in fact double agents for the Polish resistance.[50][51] Some of its officers were ultimately awarded the Righteous among the Nations awards for saving Jews.[52][53]
          Following Nazi Germany’s attack on the Soviet Union in June 1941, German forces quickly overran the territory of Poland controlled by the Soviets since their joint invasion of Poland in accordance with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. A number of people collaborating with the Soviets before Operation Barbarossa were killed by local people. Belief in the Żydokomuna stereotype, combined with the German Nazi encouragement for expression of anti-Semitic attitudes, was a principal cause of massacres of Jews by gentile Poles in Poland’s northeastern Łomża province in the summer of 1941, including the massacre at Jedwabne.[54][55]
          In 1944 Germans clandestinely armed a few regional Armia Krajowa (AK) units operating in the area of Vilnius in order to encourage them to act against the Soviet partisans in the region; in Nowogrodek district and to a lesser degree in Vilnius district (AK turned these weapons against the Nazis during Operation Ostra Brama).[25][56] Such arrangements were purely tactical and did not evidence the type of ideological collaboration as shown by Vichy regime in France or Quisling regime in Norway.[47] The Poles main motivation was to gain intelligence on German morale and preparedness and to acquire much needed equipment.[57] There are no known joint Polish-German actions, and the Germans were unsuccessful in their attempt to turn the Poles toward fighting exclusively against Soviet partisans.[47] Further, most of such collaboration of local commanders with the Germans was condemned by AK headquarters.[47] Tadeusz Piotrowski quotes Joseph Rothschild saying “The Polish Home Army was by and large untainted by collaboration” and adds that “the honor of AK as a whole is beyond reproach”.[47]
          One partisan unit of Polish right-wing National Armed Forces, the Holy Cross Mountains Brigade, decided to tacitly cooperate with the Germans in late 1944. It ceased hostile actions against the Germans for a few months, accepted logistic help and withdrew from Poland into Czechoslovakia with German approval (where they resumed hostilities against the Germans) in late stages of the war in order to avoid capture by the Soviets

        • Aboanus,

          What I got it wrong? hell no!, no way I just set out to prove what a dopey liar you are – and guess what? I succeeded.

          So stop lying “untermensch”. It should be you who should stick to the facts, rather then dreamed up soviet lying propaganda to suit your warped and worthless view of the world’s history, rather then as it actually happened, and then posting them it an incoherent kindergarten fashion.

          You missed your calling dear brain damaged commo, you should have been born and raised to adulthood under Dr. J. Goebbels period as Propaganda Minister! Why? well no one would know to this day that Nazi Germany had actually lost the war.

          • Bravo ! Another one good sign tt you have nothing to say…

            • Aboanus,

              Well spoken! it befits and cements your limited mentality!

              MS will, no doubt, be overtly impressed.

              • Dead wrong, Bohdan: It’s YOU that elicit my grovelling instinct (alongside mccusa). How could it be otherwise, considering that you are the Übermensch here; neither myself, nor Aborigenus. Just one question: What’s keeping Bohdan the Invincible from taking on the Kremlin? Sheer laziness?

                • MS,

                  Again, read my comments of March 21, 2011 at 11.39 am in reply to and addressed to you in “Russia, Drowning”, to describe your character down to a “T”.


                  PS I don’t spam like you do.

                  • Manfred Steifschwanz

                    For being an Übermensch, I’d say you’re not very intelligent or even talented. Just noisily aggressive as fitting for a Zigfeld acolyte.

                    Grow up, kid.

                    • Glad to read your description that I’m an “Übermensch”, (that is when compared to you, ‘dear pathetic untermensch’)! just be good enough to remember this for future reference.

                      Also you must remember, that the Western World has such a thing as freedom of speech. This means that imbeciles/idiots can express their fantasies, lies, propaganda, trash etc “ad nauseam” anytime they please. It is just unreal how you excel in this field, hence what you always express is never intelligent, it is gibberish at it’s worst.

                      O’, o’! I hear Pravda.ru calling you, better run little boy and attend to their trash.

        • @You’re right, “Großdeutschland” was Panzergrenadier Division…

          And the very word Grossdeutschland means Germans + Volksdeutsche.

          @Owned ! )

          Seriously, go back to crawling for Kadyrov.

  9. Aborig-anus, what dirty rats you russians are – if russians collaborate with nazis by millions it is ‘so what’ – if Estonians or Lithuanians fight against soviet barbaric forces committing genocide on the Baltic people they are ‘nazi’ and should be taken to the European Court. By the way, the Vlasovs , everyone of them, while wearing nazi uniforms on their sleeves there was a present day russian flag…..I keep wondering why germans had and still have this total contempt for russians…they will NEVER consider you europeans. live with this….

    • Whom did you wrote it too ? I’m greek… mentime, I’m in doubt to follow to your sick “logic” about Vlasov. Was he good or bad in joining Nazi ? Russins treat him as betrayer…that’s all ! The same as regarding “Waffen SS”. All the rest in your post – pure trash. Especially concerning yourself in respect of who’s an european and who is not.

      • And what is yours ‘sick “logic” about Vlasov’?

        • Waik up…my logic is very clear. Vlasov was the betrayer ! And to judge all the russians for collaboration with Nazi – is the top of stupidity. Because the same is applicable for ALL the others…

          • Actually they are wanting to open a museum in his honor in Russia, in his home town.

          • “The betrayer” of what and when?

            Of Russia, when he joined the Bolshevik side?
            Of the Soviets, when he got captured? (Just surrender was an act of “treason”.)
            Of Stalin, when he turned against his regime?
            Of Hitler, when he came to the Czech rebels’ rescue?
            Something else?
            All of the above?

            • When he started fighting for Nazi Germany, Vlasov betrayed his country and his solemn military oath that he had given.

              • According to “his country”, Vlasov has “betrayed his country and his solemn military oath that he had given” by just being captured – such were realities of 1942. And when he started fighting against Nazi Germany (again) – what then? Betrayal of “his solemn military oath that he had given”, or something?

                Anyway Vlasov is a very conflicted figure (and for me being a Bolshevik means being a bad guy already), but many other Russian collaborators would present much more straightforward cases for some total bastards. For example, Vladimir Gil (Владимир Гиль) of the SD (SS “security” forces), later the NKVD “Soviet partisan hero” (oh irony).

              • He also betrayed his country by serving the communist party Ostap.

            • Remix of “Dumb & Dumber” ? For russians that war was Great Patriotic War” and they treat it the same as Napoleon’s campaign of 1812th…

              • 1812? Oppressed, 100% illiterate peasant slave-conscripts used as cannon fodder in some war against another empire (like if they really cared who were their masters), which featured massive use of the burned ground tactics including but hardly limited to the destruction of Russia’s own capital city? How glorious indeed.

    • how can you, little dirty pshek, even judge who are europeans and who’re not?

      • Manfred Steifschwanz

        mccusa is the quintessence of European civilization these days, mind you casasa! Take my words for it as per below.

        “Wär’es nicht für diesen Pschek
        Kannten wir nur Angst und Schreck”

  10. aboriganus, I don’t give a rat’s arse if you are greek or turk, or a russian/chukchi-mixture – you defend the barbaric horror called russia – move there, I suggest Mayak region so contaminated with radioactivity that the generations of monsters are being born there. But who gives a damm, russian lives are cheap….By the way ask germans why they have that total contampt for russiaans, as the rest of the world, for that matter …

    • You can bable-out whatever you like, looser. It does not not change anything in reality. The point regarding Poles is them to stop their bluh-bluh heads in purely artifical paranoya fits and tricks around recent historical events and to line themselves up onto pragmatic policy line. This concerns as their policy within EU, as well as concerning their relations with eastern neighbours. For example in 2010 they achieved gaining up busuness with russians by 40% and this is very good sign that they commenced thinking about own interests. Regarding russians…do not worry about them so much, because it looks as a kind of mental desease. They will survive, as they did many times in the past – that’s for sure.

    • And…greek or turk or russian or chukchi or german…do you have a kind of personal problem with ? If so – my condolence…

  11. 2 Andrew…Mthks for bed-linen like post, proving your “copy-paste” skills ))) But, it’s not a kind of argue, but just a proof that any kind of “conclusions” about whole the ethnic group or a nation, based on exceptions , can not be true and are pure disgusting thing. So, same as 70k poles is not a point to judge about ather 35kk ! Same as 120k Vlasov’s army (half of which were not USSR citizens) is not a ground to judge all the “russians” (actually USSR’ citizens) and your “fellow-countrymen” try to say.

    • Actually Aborigenus, there were several million Russians who collaborated with the Nazi’s, but to be fair there was little to choose between Nazism and Communism.

      • Prove your “several million”…(the rest in your post is trash)

        • Lets see, the Nazi’s persecuted ethnic minorities like the Jews, and killed around 20,000,000 people, the Russian Communists persecuted ethnic minorities like the Chechens, Tatars etc, and killed around 61,000,000 people, my mistake, the Communists were worse.

          They were both socialists however, and followed the proclamations of Marx and Engels about the need to exterminate “non revolutionary” races.

      • O’k, Andrew…hv found your “source” about “several millions”… NKVD and Stalin used to count as “collaborrants” all the people who was on occupied territory (even being within “partizans”), all the captives (even who managed to escape and was fighting with Nazi), even soldiers and officers being temporary in encirclement… Good. No more comments.

        • No, there were several million Hiwi, the German army would have been unable to operate without them.
          In some German divisions nearly 50% of combat strength were Russian volunteers, and at Stalingrad a 25% of combat strength were Russian volunteers. This does not include non combat volunteers, supply, medical, etc, nor the Russian POW’s used for menial jobs.

          The word entered into several languages during World War II when German troops enlisted volunteers from the occupied territories for supplementary service (drivers, cooks, hospital attendants, ammunition carriers, messengers, sappers, etc.).
          This term from World War II times is often associated with collaborationism, and, in the case of the occupied Soviet territories, with anti-Bolshevism (and widely presented by Germans as such). Some Soviet hiwis were pressed into combat in the ranks of the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer) in desperate situations, such as with the German Sixth Army at Stalingrad, where they added up to about 25% (50,000) of the front-line strength. Some German divisions had a higher ratio—for example, the 71st and 76th Infantry had parity between German and “Hiwi” manpower.


          Of course, as a % of population the Greeks may have had a higher rate of collaboration with the Nazi occupiers, but then again, that would fit right in with the Greek tradition of racism.

          Now aborigenus, you have already shown you are not too bright, but come on….

          • That should be several million including hiwi.

            By the end of 1942 there were around 1,000,000 Russians serving in front line positions alone.

            • Andrew, do not touch greeks here, as the only greeks and poles were fighting with gernas – MARGINALLY. All the greeks (around the world) selebrate “Ohi Day”…

              • In 1942 the Greeks were not much of “fighting” as just starving (little know, hundreds of thousands died). That’s not fighting (Greek resistance was only beginning to organize, then of course to fight mostly each other along political lines).

                Very well-organized regular Polish forces were however fighting in Africa and in air and on sea alongside the British Empire and Commonwealth forces and also increasingly the Americans.

                Heck, in 1942 even the Free French forces (including the foreign legion) were fighting much more than Greeks. Later too, but that’s not even the point.

                • If you like to measure dicks…the russians were fighting much-much than all the others. Sorry if it doesn’t suit you…can do nothin with.

                  • Especially in 1939-1940, losing hundreds of thousands of men (more than the German losses) in the Central Europe but somehow failing to kill any Germans. Interesting, isn’t it?

                    • Aside from the Soviet-Finnish war, where else did USSR “lose a lot of men” in 139-40?

                    • While invading Poland, Maimuni, or did you forget about the alliance between the National Socialists and the International Socialists?

                      But of course, those Russians killed at that time were doing so on the side of Nazism.

            • HiWi covers many ethnic groups…and poles as well (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=51). Some ethnic groups of USSR joined HiWi widely (like crimean tatars, baltics – for example). And what ?

              • There were no Polish Hiwis, besides a few so-called “Soviet citizens” (meaning mostly forced conscripts into the Red Army from the territories annexed by the Soviet Union following the aggression of 1939, not many of them) and treated as such. They formed no “Polnische” Osttruppen units or even sub-units that I’m aware of.

                Russians of Polish descent in the German service were treated as Russians and generally thought of themselves as such too, such as the infamous (and Polish-hating) Russian Waffen-SS general Bronislav Kaminsky who by descent was half-Polish.

                The only such (failed) initiative was the grandously-named “Polnische Wehrmacht” project (there was such a thing during WWI) in 1944. Only a few hundred volunteers signed up, never got into the frontlines and were treated as an unarmed labor force not much unlike Todt. In the Hilfspolizei too there was only 1 battalion, the Schutzmannschaftsbataillon 202.

            • Hv found the russian source dd 2006 with breakdown on collaborationists ethically (http://kz44.narod.ru/kollabs.htm)russians ex USSR: total 380k. Does it sence of change somehow the picture ?

              • No, as Russians are well known for falsification of historical facts & documents, and for a cultural tendency towards lying.

                The forerunner of the volunteer formations was a voluntary auxiliary service, of a para- military character, which was started in the autumn of 1941 by the German Commands on the front. On their own initiative, they organized auxiliary units of various services, made up of Soviet deserters, prisoners, and volunteers from among the local population. These so-called “Hilfswillige,” or “Hiwi,” were employed as sentries, drivers, store- keepers, workers in depots, etc. The experiment surpassed all expectations. In the spring of 1942 there were already at least 200,000 of them in the rear of the German armies, and by the end of the same year their number was allegedly near 1,000,000.(2)
                After its first meeting, the Committee for the Liberation of the Peoples of Russia met a few more times in Prague, but it had no opportunity to develop its activity. The end of the Third Reich was approaching with great speed; Besides, German control was constantly hampering the Committee’s work, and all decisions and instructions had to be “coordinated” with the appropriate German commissar. Nevertheless, the publication of the Prague Manifesto made a deep impression on the Russians. First of all, it brought forth a great number of voluntary applications for service in the Liberation Army, a number surpassing all expectations. in one single day, the 20th of November, about 60,000 applications were received.(33)
                33 Ibid, p. 96. Kasantsev states in his Tretia Sila, p. 290, that the number of applications that day was 62,000 , in November grew to 300,000 and at the end of December was 1,000,000.

                From “Russian Volunteers in the German Wehrmacht in WWII
                by Lt. Gen Wladyslaw Anders and Antonio Munoz”


                Also many Greeks collaborated with the Germans, it is impossible for you to deny this.

              • There were no “millions of Russians” but there was 2 million or so of all “Soviet citizens” in all forces, the backbone of them being ex-Red Army. More than the Soviet partisans even together with UPA and eastern AK combined. How does it fit into your narrative?

                • Don’t forget that those numbers are just for those actively serving in the German military, they do not count all those who engaged in civil collaboration.

              • It changes the picture of you being a Greek. How in the world did you manage to read such a large document in Russian if you are not a Russian? Of course, one explanation may be that you are a KGB trained Greek

                • RV,

                  Civilized and intelligent people know more than one language.

                  • If a Greek person should know English or German, it is not surprising. But such an exotic language as Russian? Particularly to an extent to be able to extract specific data from a very lengthy document? I have my doubts.

                    And even with English, I have been to Greece several times and very few people outside Athens or Thessaloniki spoke any English

  12. Before he used an automated translation program (if he used one), he must have known that the document contained the kind of information that was at issue, i.e., in this case the information regarding the umber of collaborationists. How did he know that?

    I don’t read Japanese, and if I am interested in learning about the Shinto religion, for example, by auto- translating a Japanese document having this information, I would not know which of billions documents in Japanese to select for translation, would I?

    • RV,

      Well said and to the point, so that it hits hope perfectly!

    • Regarding “shinto”…Drop this idea…To learn it (means to understand it), you need to clear the brains from all the phobias and hostility – first. This because the basic issue of kami-no-michi, is “rejection of absolutism” . It’s not a religion, but mostly a kind of philosophy…which is unattainable for LR fans.

  13. Bravo ! I was waiting for the moment when you begin “skull measuurements” ))) Chill out…russian and greek are similar for me, I know them both naturally. Two more – a bit worse, because of some minor difficulties may be with modern slang idioms (and “steet languge”). Plus a couple more, quite bad (like english) because of no any practice…especially in writting. If necessary, few weeks will be enough for me to bild my english up to the proper level. Even getting here time-to-time, I grow my english up )
    Re “automated translation” – is good for technical guides the only.

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