EDITORIAL
The Coming Russian Depression
Even by Russian standards, the economic news last week was exceedingly grim.
A new report released by Standard & Poors revealed that as Russia’s population crashes to near 115 million by 2050, a loss of well over 15% from today’s level, and as it ages while younger workers disappear, the country can expect national debt to soar to stratospheric levels nearly six times what Russia produces in value in a given year. Russia will produce less and less value with fewer and fewer productive workers (Russian workers are already among the world’s least productive and most corrupt), yet it will be called upon to pay out more and more to unproductive, aging workers.
S&P’s conclusion was stark indeed: “By 2035, we expect that Russia’s fiscal indicators will have weakened such that they would be more in line with sovereigns currently rated in the speculative-grade category, because, in our view, the projected improvement in GDP per capita would not be able to offset the potential fiscal deterioration.”
Ouch.
Unlike other countries with large economies, Russia’s finances depend entirely upon the sale of crude oil, a finite resource whose price Russia cannot control. We’ve repeatedly reported on the laughable manner in which the Russian stock market bounces around like a yo-yo at the whim of an oil market which is totally controlled by foreigners.
What this means is simple: Russia’s economy has no diversity and therefore no resiliency, no room to use innovation to make up for economic shortfalls.
And, as we report in another editorial today, Russia’s caught between a rock and a hard place. On one side it faces demographic decay, and on the other the fiendish effects of corruption. Russian interest rates must be far higher than they should be because nobody can trust the Russians, especially not other Russians, to do what they say. This wicked economic vice will surely crush the Russian economy, exactly as it did the Soviet economy. We will again see national depression and collapse.
Worst of all, the leaders Russians have chosen to guide them through these perilous shoals are utterly unqualified and indeed incompetent to do so. They are nothing but a clan of proud KGB spies, men who have never run any kind of business, much less a competitive one, and who accordingly have no idea at all what it takes to build a vibrant economy. Even if they did have a clue, they would not act on it, because that would risk creating independent centers of power that could challenge their dictatorial rule.
So Russia is doomed, just as the USSR was doomed, to wallow in inefficiency and corruption until paralysis sets in and the nation, once again, collapses into rubble.
La Russophobe 
Russia’s economy – there is none. It’s merely a resource appendix to the West. Lets keep it as such.
Indeed, very logical. As the Russian population plummets, the amount of oil per capita will skyrocket, making Russians wealthier and wealthier per capita. And this wealth will make them very depressed.
That is a ridiculous lie. Russia is a fractured economy and does not fairly distribute wealth and you cite NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that this will ever change. Russia is one of the most corrupt civilizations on this planet.
Plus, it’ll be pretty hard for Russia to drill oil when all the Russians are dead, won’t it?
Moreover, even a monkey understands that an economy based solely on raw materials cannot support a modern large nation. Inevitably, such an economy will collapse.
True: 115 million people is just not enough to drill for oil, and Russia is not aware of the idea that you can import labor from other countries.
Mister Maimonides,
Russians can do NOTHING without the western technology – so it was decided a while ago that Russia will be a commodity provider to the First World; all investment gear to this concept – you will have to live with this…
Mccusa:
Being a “commodity provider to the First World” is still better than the role of your own country of Poland: the provider of menial labour to UK and Ireland. In fact, some of the wealthiest countries in the World are “commodity providers”.
Hey, Maimonides,
In case you haven’t noticed 95% of Russians live in the holes in the ground all over siberia hungry, drunk, dirty, on their knees – a truly russian slaves – by the way, there is good news for those poor half-animals; chinese are retaking siberia and, obviously, will provide better conditions for those poor slaves. By the way Poland is doing very well indeed – the only country, along with Finland, that survive the crisis very well. Just in order you haven’t noticed; Mainonides, Kleine Schwaine, Podserob, Pisdov, Vorov, whatever your name is…Deary, it makes Polish People soooo happy to see Moscow a truly central asian city where 8 of of 10 ten are not only muslim but also central asian. Russia is one great cosmic failure and it goes from bad to worse every minute…..
No, Mccusa, few Russians live in Siberia. Siberia is underpopulated. And the vast majority of Moscow residents are Slavs and Jews.
And for the 100th time: the word is “Schweine” not “Schwaine”. Even a parrot needs fewer repetitions to learn a simple word than you.
Given that Poles spent most of their history as servants to Prussians and Germans, one would expect them to be able to learn some pidgin German, nicht whar?
Hey, Mainom,
Given that Russians spent most of their history [450years, to be precised] as a slaves to Mongols one should assume that to accpet upcoming chinese domination of whole russia will go smoothly…
Maimonides/Kleine Schwaine/Little Swine/
So you admit that the whole siberia is already Chinese – does it include 1 million chinese who cross non existant chinese/russian every year? The majority of russians [ or to be precise Russian/Mongols] live in siberia e.g., 90% hence 90% of russians live in pure 18th century – do I have to repeat it for the 100th time???? Problem with you is very simple but fundamental – russia has never been exposed to the European culture. Hence, in the interest of Western, Central and Eastern Europe, russia should be kept away from the West as far as possible. The picture looks rather gloomy – russia is being rejected by Europe and Asia – how does it make you feel Maimonides/Klaine Schwaine/Little Swine?????
Dis-moi, mon bébé polonais maladroit: À quoi servent enfin ces platitudes imbéciles que tu rabâches sans cesse ici? On croyerait que les Polonais râlent tout le temps, faute de mieux.
Écoute-moi bien, pauvre con: Pour moi, l’humanité est beaucoup plus grande que l’Occident qui, pour sa part, est une entité surtout génocidaire et parasitaire, sa civilisation aujourd’hui pourrissante de l’intérieur en pleine vue. En un sens, je suis en fait de ton avis, mais plutôt à l’inverse: La Russie aurait se tenir à distance car, contrairement à ces Polonais de merde, la Russie possède encore de la vraie civilisation et de l’independance nationale.
Floppy, Russia is not civilised, in fact using the terms Russian and civilised together is an oxymoron.
Russia is a barbaric, genocidal, imperialist state. A place where human life has little or no value. Especially if the people in question are from an ethnic minority.
@ Mccusa:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia
Siberia makes up 25% of Russia’s population (36 million people).
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%83%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8
Often among the demographic threat to Russia’s security mentioned the possibility of a “quiet expansion” of the populous China with regard to the Far East, with subsequent exclusion of the territory along the Kosovo scenario. However, it’s observed [53] that in the entire Northeast Asia the population density obeys laws depending solely on the natural environment, decreasing from the central provinces of China to the north and northeast, where frontier regions in Russia are often more densely populated than neighboring counties in China. From this we can conclude that Russia’s Far East is not too attractive target for immigration, or at least, that the situation is far from straightforward.
According to professional demographers in Russia in the Far East, there are between 30 thousand to 200 thousand Chinese, which is insufficient for the “demographic expansion”. At the same time, China is rapidly losing its capacity for expansion due to the rapid decline in the share of youth in the Chinese population.
—————
Look at it this way: it has been almost 20 years since the borders with China opened up. And in these 20 years, 30 000 to 200 000 Chinese have moved in. That’s 1 500 to 10 000 per year.
Given that there are 36 million people in Siberia now, how long will it take at this rate for the Chinese to become a majority? Divide 36 000 000 by 10 000. You will get 3 600 years. I don’t think the Human Civilization will last for another 36 centuries.
And btw, you should do something to curb your petty infantile swearing. It is perfectly understandable when you are drunk, but you should sober up some day. Plus, people with the mentality of little children shouldn’t drink at all.
Let’s define the First World; US, of course, EU [ that includes Poland], Japan; so indirectly you will be providing gas and oil to Poland, in case you haven’t noticed you russki kacap…
Shame on you comrade Maimonides, what “Russia is not aware of the idea that you can import labor from other countries.” That’s another of your communist bird brained gross lies that you thrive on.
How convenient that you forget all those numerous nations that the ‘Krasnaya Armia” forcibly over ran and enslaved (read in soviet propaganda jargon – peacefully[again read – as in ‘piece of’] – incorporated into its so called paradise that huge NKVD, MVD, KGB GULAG called the USSR. Where they used the millions of enslaved comrades i.e. ZEKS, as free slave labor.
So what’s wrong in your beloved fascist ‘fuehrer for life’ – V V Putin – scooping to this level, I mean after all he still has a few “liberated” countries under his iron grip where the comrades would just love to work themselves to death to create the next Krasnaya (‘red’ as in blood) paradise that makes up your beloved present, mother Russia.
Wow. Simply wow.
Bohdan, dude. Mamonides or whatever his name is was clearly being sarcastic and that would be evident to an ape.
So either your sarcasm detector is broken, or it was made in Ukraine.
Dear chum, you who so calls himself ‘The Australian’.
If Mamonides “was clearly being sarcastic and that would be evident to an ape.” Than chum, as it’s clear to you only, you must be an ape – wink, wink, nudge, nudge say no more I understand you are judging me by yourself!
Another point, what in the hell is a ‘sarcasm detector’, as it’s not an Aussie expression. And that goes for Ukraine as well.
So be man enough to admit comrade, that you are just a recycled Russian ape hiding under numerous aliases, without the guts to use your real name – you know like a little petty criminal does by using numerous different aliases.
Or are you a ‘pome’ ape? Pray tell, which one.
Let’s see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Population_growth_rate
Population growth rate -0.06% (2010)[2]
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Russia currently loses 0.06% per year. By 2050, this means less than a 3% loss, or a loss of about 4 million, taking its population down to 138 million.
How did the math geniuses at Standard and Poor come up with 115 million? No wonder these incompetent morons couldn’t even figure out that subprime mortgages are risky, and caused our economic meltdown.
Hmm, so let’s see. S&P is one of the world’s most respected, largest and most powerful financial institutions, hiring a huge staff of the world’s best and brightest and working with cutting-edge technology.
Maimonides is a ignorant, illiterate, anonymous commenter on a blog.
So it’s obvious: S&P must be wrong, Maimonides must be right.
The question is, how did the genius called Maimonides come up with some sort of prediction that Russia’s population loss will remain constant. There is NOTHING to that affect in the source you cite, you hopeless ignoramus.
Yes, you are right. S&P’s predictions 25 years into the future have always been highly reliable.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-11/russian-debt-may-reach-585-of-gdp-on-demographic-woes-s-p-says.html.
The country’s state debt made up 9.5 percent of GDP, Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin said on Feb. 2.
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9.5% of GDP? Wow! That’s enormous! With such a high percentage of debt, a country will collapse any day! Am I glad that I live in the fiscally sound country of USA…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
‘
As of January 31, 2011, the Total Public Debt Outstanding of the United States of America was $14.13 trillion and was 96.4% of calendar year 2010’s annual gross domestic product (GDP) of $14.7 trillion.
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And 96.4% is not a limit for us! By cutting taxes on the rich and extending unemployment benefits indefinitely, we Americans can hit 1000% in no time. Go USA!
Invest in the US government bonds! No risk there! They are as safe as the mortgages were 6 years ago. If they weren’t safe, would the US government print so many of them?!
You are extraordinarily illiterate, even for a Russian.
A short time ago, Russia HAD A SURPLUS, you gorilla.
And this article is A PREDICTION ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, not what is going on right now.
If you are suggesting US government bonds are riskier than Russian, you are not even worthy of the term ape. Your ignorant remarks would be hysterically funny, were it not for the dire consequences they imply for the people of Russia. In the time of the USSR EXACTLY the same idiotic propaganda was spewed about how great the country was and how bad was the USA. Then the USSR collapsed and disappeared.
I always enjoy S&P predictions. I will never forget how they predicted that the mortgages will do fine, just a few weeks before they collapsed.
This makes S&P predictions for 25 years from now especially reliable and trustworthy, especially because the men, who made them, will be long gone from their jobs by then, and so will S&P due to its inability to predict anything more than 1 day away.
“Then the USSR collapsed and disappeared.”
Yes, in 1991. And the S&P managed to predict this major historical event 25 years earlier, back in 1966? Wow.
I look at the mammals, who predict that Russia’s population will decrease by 27 million from 142m to 115m in less than 25 years and wonder: how can they be human? Any human is intelligent enough to realize that there are at least 15 million of people in Ukraine (where the GDP is 3 times lower) who would love to get jobs and move to Russia, another 20 million in Central Asia, millions each in Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Moldova. And that’s just in the former Russian colonies… How many hundreds of millions of people in India would love to get Russian jobs?
Stopping Georgians from working in Russia and forcing them to live in Georgia is a cruel and unusual punishment. Do you remember how much international outrage Russia caused when it returned some illegal Georgian emigrants back to Georgia in retaliation for Saakashvili’s arrest of Russians and ethnic Armenians on false charges of “espionage”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita
World Bank (2009)
38 Russia 18,945
40 Lithuania 16,745
86 Ukraine 6,327
94 Georgia 4,778
112 India 3,275
114 Uzbekistan 2,879
115 Moldova 2,858
Mister Maimonides;
See below the true numbers for Russia – GNI per capita: US $9,370 (World Bank, 2009) the amount of 18, 945 is in Russian kopecks, of course. 95% of russians live in the holes in the ground all over siberia in pure 18th century- truly russian slaves that never rebel.
Russia’s pathological obsession with Georgia and its President borders on a serious mental disorder. The 18th century methods of aggressions, political assassinations, and political manipulations [e.g., sudden and unexpected ‘attack’ on the Warsaw synagogue in 2004, just one day before the American Congress discussed Poland’s entry to NATO, the collapse of M. Topolanek’s government during Czech Republic EU Presidency, ecological disaster in Hungary, [nobody found the guilty ones], the European lef’t’s, [manipulated by Russia], acccusation of luck of freedom of press in Hungary just before this country took over the EU presidency – and my favorite Russian stupidity – a day after Russia’s attack on Georgia – in Poland, of all places, there were old people holding signs all over Poland ‘ Down with Georgian Agressor!! – it took Polish ordinary people to connect the dots – all these ‘activities’ were instigated by russian embassy in Warsaw and Russian spies all over Central and Western Europe. You russians are truly a laughing stock of the world. Wait and see what will happen in Poland before Polish EU presidency – watch that space….
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNP.PCAP.PP.CD
Country name 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
Poland 13,480 14,640 16,060 17,640 18,440
Russian Federation 11,560 14,570 16,410 19,770 18,350
Sounds interesting: “Coming Russian depression”. Considering that, axiomatically, Russia is long since “on the verge of collapse” (LR’s home-spun pet phrase), what exactly is supposed to be missing from Russia’s current situation in order for it to qualify as outright depression?
Hats off for LR’s creative sophistry!
LA RUSSOPBHOBE RESPONDS:
Granted many find it boring, but it’s too bad you don’t study Russian history a little more. If you did, you’d know you sound EXACTLY like the Russian idiots who said the Tsar could never collapse, and the USSR would live forever (they even sang about that one!). Turned out they were wrong. So are you.
Manfred,
To be fair, there is little doubt that the US economy will soon hit a depression. When this happens, the rest of the world, including Russia, will hit a depression as well, albeit that many countries will not hit it as badly as USA will.
Well, if Usians are to suffer the way the Russians did during the time of unfettered Western corporate plunder (right after the dissolution of the USSR), I’m immensely pleased. Conversely, that sort of hardship will NOT be Russia’s lot this time around. Putin has, after all, reasserted Russian national sovereignty. He is hated by the LR team for a reason!
Ahem floppy, the beneficiaries of “corporate plunder” in the break up of the USSR were Russians, and more importantly, communist party members on the whole.
Hence your hilarious “dissident oligarchs”, love. Outside Russia proper, Swedish banksters are bleeding the Baltic states white. And your beloved Anders Åslund, a violently insane compatriot of mine, should have been put to death — horribly maimed and wounded if it were up to me — at the hands of the Russian people.
Look floppy, the beneficiaries of Russian privatization were almost entirely Russian.
The fact many disagree with Putin and fled the country is beside the point. And Putin is no better, look at the palaces he is building himself.
In case you were too retarded to notice at the time, the reforms undertaken during Yeltsins tenure had started paying dividends well before Putin came to power.
And as for killing Aslund painfully, well I would rather see neo-fascist scum such as yourself and Putin dealt with by peoples justice in the Caucasus. But at least they would make it quick.
As usual, your response is completely void of substance and outright preposterous, albeit less vulgar than usual for a change. Excuse me for not being “duly” impressed by your contrived sophistry. The allegedly “coming Russian depression” as opposed to the alleged presentday situation with Russia “on the verge of collapse” is pure cant. Or an adolescent’s phony play with “advanced” words.
Russia’s problem is trivial compared to Japan’s.
In fact, according to an official estimate, Japan may lose one-fourth of its current population and have 95 million people in 2050. On the contrary, Russia is supposed to have 115 million people in 2050. Which is worse?
Moreover, the IMF estimates that Japan’s gross government debt has already surpassed 200% of GDP and will increase to a staggering level of 250% in 2015. That’s the highest in all 184 countries the IMF has included in calculation. On the contrary, Russia’s debt is estimated to be just over 10% of GDP.
If Russia’s debt surges to 585 % of GDP by 2050, what about Japan? Nobody knows, but if Japan weathers this crisis fairly well, Russia might come to Japan with hat in hand and have to beg for lessons on the survival.
But Japan, unlike Russia, has a fabulous diversified economy, hardworking honest people, many close friends among foreign nations and a very small territory to populate.
So really, Japan is nothing at all like Russia. And even if they were the same, is it really much comfort to Russians to know that they will meet the Japanese on the way to absolute oblivion? We doubt it very much.
LR,
That is very shrewd of you to notice that Japan has a very small territory with few natural resources, while Russia has a huge territory with huge resources. But does that really make Japan’s economic future rosier than Russia’s?
Actually there are many available possibilities for Russian “authorities” to try and diverse their economy.They may, for example, try and attract people from abroad interested in extreme tourism to the war zones near Sochi – and not just some bored Moscovites looking for some excitement, like these yesterday:
Three tourists from Moscow killed in North Caucasus attack
http://en.rian.ru/crime/20110219/162674457.html
Extreme hunting, too:
Eight hunters killed in Russia’s North Caucasus
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101218/161834150.html
The people behind the highly unusual propaganda of “Did you know Stalin wrote romantic poetry? Proud to be different” would coin-up something like “See Russia and die”, may also work wonders.
Meanwhile, even Kadyrovstan is heavily investing in tourism:
http://rt.com/news/kadyrov-switzerland-chechnya-tourism/
http://chechnyatoday.com/en/content/view/2417/314/
I must admit something. I was once very sceptical about it, but the upcoming event of the Russian olympics is getting more and more interested with the every passing year. It might be an organizational fiasco, but maybe at least the related fireworks (and firefights) can be impressive.
May I suggest another exciting tour around russia – the gulags – they still exist and it is a matter of opening the gates and let russians march in like a bydlo. By the way the gulag system is the only infrastructure that works in Russia – curiosity that should be seen. In the contrary, I strongly advise not to go skiing to the Krasnodar area…….
Hey, Robert, there is a simple way for you to put your money where your mouth is. Let’s make a simple bet: if your beloved islamic “freedom fighters” (aka terrorists) kill even one foreign tourist at the Sochi Olympics in 2014 (and verified by NYT or Washington Post), I will pay you $1000. if not – you pay me $1000. Is it a deal?
Oh hello Ostap, you like making bets.
Why don’t you live in Russia old bean? After all its sooo superior to all western anti-socialist countries.
Come on, do tell us, and don’t give us the “My kids live in the US” line, an amoral piece of filth like yourself is a danger to children, they are better off without you.
So, you feel the separatists will only attack Russians? OK, that sounds about right, but ever heard of collateral damage? Do you have so much respect for their abilities that you are 100% sure they can avoid it?
Whom are you talking to and what sentence are you disputing, LR?
They’re not “my beloved”, and they will do anything if they decide so. Right now the disgruntled natives of Kabardino-Balkaria decided they will shoot any ethnic Russian bored enough to wander into their republic for some stupid reason like extreme hunting or skying in a war zone (where people die every day), and so they do just this. If they decide something else, they will do that. You can keep your Internet dollars (and Internet rubles too).
Thanks for admitting that all this stuff about terrorism at Sochi Olympics is your improbable wet dreaming, Robert.
Wet dreaming?
I say, they will do whatever they will want to do 3 years from now. Anything. 3 years ago the disgruntled natives of the Republic of Kabardino-Balkaria were not shooting Russian hunters and tourists (or even any civilians). I don’t know what they will want to do do 3 years from now, but what’s “improbable” in this?
And while I don’t want any of your Internet dollars if they don’t stage any “criminal underground” [TM] activity in Sochi, I guess I will actually give you 1 bazillion of my Internet dollars if they don’t do anything.
Also,
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kremlins-khloponin-wants-tourism-halted-at-ski-resort/431434.html
The Kremlin’s envoy to the North Caucasus called on Monday for tourism to be halted at the country’s most popular ski resort, where three Moscow tourists were gunned down by suspected Islamist rebels.
Security has been heightened since the Friday night shootout and a spate of other attacks including blowing up a cable car and killing a policeman and an official in Kabardino-Balkaria.
“We must stop receiving tourists,” Itar-Tass cited Alexander Khloponin as telling officials in the town of Tyrnyauz on the main road leading to Mount Elbrus, Europe’s highest peak, which was open for holidaymakers on Monday.
The violence has shocked ordinary Russians and officials alike who see Elbrus as an oasis of calm in the North Caucasus.
Russia’s Tourism Union said the attack on a minibus of Moscow skiers by masked assailants was the first “terrorist” attack on tourists in Russia. It added that about 5,000 tourists visit Elbrus annually.
The tourists were attacked because one of them was mistaken for the daughter of ex-Federal Security Service chief Nikolai Patrushev, a law enforcement source told Interfax on Monday.
Khloponin called on travel companies to “not bring new groups, … explain to them this is in the name of security.” He also scolded the provincial leadership, asking them: “I want to hear from you how this situation was able to happen in this republic of which we have always been so proud?”
also, lol
Russian leader warns of threats to Sochi Olympics
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/02/18/uk-russia-olympics-georgia-idUKTRE71H5AC20110218
Threats from inside and outside Russia “demand heightened attention from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, law enforcement bodies and security structures,” he said in televised comments at the meeting, after a run down a mountain ski slope.
Medvedev appeared to be referring to a brewing row between Russia and Georgia over the Muslim Circassian people, who are originally from the northwest Caucasus and now scattered across the globe.
Members of the Circassian diaspora are demanding the Olympics be cancelled or moved unless Russia apologises for what they say was genocide against their ancestors in the area where the Winter Games will be held.
In 2014 it will be 150 years since a Tsarist military campaign wiped out 300,000 Circassians in and around Sochi.
Although recorded by Russian imperial historians in 1864, no nation has recognized the deaths as genocide. Georgia has said it is considering doing so after it was asked by Circassian lobby groups based in the United States, Turkey and Jordan.
The closest the Russian government has come to apologising for the Circassian bloodshed was in 1994, when President Boris Yeltsin said resistance to Tsarist violence was legitimate.
Moscow has accused Georgia of collaborating with al Qaeda and aiding Islamist militants in terrorist activities on Russian soil, charges Christian-majority Georgia has denied.
The Kremlin is struggling to contain an Islamist insurgency in mainly Muslim provinces in Russia’s North Caucasus, some of which border Georgia, a decade after federal troops drove separatists from power in Chechnya in the second of two wars.
The sprawling municipality of Sochi borders Abkhazia, a Russian-backed separatist region of Georgia that Moscow recognized as an independent nation after the 2008 war.
@Although recorded by Russian imperial historians in 1864, no nation has recognized the deaths as genocide.
And not just historians. Some quotes by the Russian civilizers:
Grand Duke Michael: “We wouldn’t leave our duties thinking that Mountaineers are not surrendering. To wipe out the half, the other half needed to be destroyed.”
Earl Lev Tolstoy: “To enter the villages in the darkness became our usual thing. Russian soldiers were entering the houses one by one under the darkness of the night. This and following scenes were such horror scenes that none of the reporters were courageous enough to report them.”
In the congratulating message Czar Alexander II sent to Earl Yevdokimov: “You cleaned up and destroyed the rebellious autochthon nations in West Caucasia in the last 3 years. We can recover the cost of this long bloody war from this fertile land in a very short time.”
http://www.circassianworld.com/new/war-and-genocide/1143-the-reports-and-the-testimonies.html
maimon, most likely they will distroy the facilities in sochi, just before the opening of the olimpics, what about that???
I think right now is when the Russian people in the back country are running out of food. The Putin crowd have no ability at all to plan ahead for hard times and poor crops.
Ron,
They already ran out. According to russophobe sources, 200 million Russian peasants have died of hunger in the last 2 years.
first of all, OF COURSE the vampire putin has no INTEREST in planning ahead regarding hard times. why should he? if things get tough, you can always blame it on the jews or “foreigners”. that’s what the nazis did,after all. secondly, what IS this rubbish about “national sovereignty? it DOESN’T exist! NOBODY is independent or superior (except for israel, started by GOD). and GOD will have a FEW things to say about russia cosying up to iran and other lunatics. the sooner putin gets ….the better. let’s hope it is SOONER!!!
Klaine Schwaine,
La vrais civilisation – am I halucinating?- the civilization of gulags,of total and utter stupidity, barbarity beyond imagination, total disregard for the human rights, the obscene treatment of its own citizens, total luck of freedom and basic rights; shall I go on??? As for integrity – the West sneeze and Russia gets a pneumonia. How can anybody have any respect for Russian people who accept this ‘civilized’ treatment?
mccusa wrote: “Russians can do NOTHING without the western technology”
What can your own Poland do without the western technology or, for that matter, without Mendeleev’s periodic table?
Sure, Russia can do a lot. For example, travel into Space. In fact, it pioneered Space travel and still it is pretty much the only country in the world that can do that safely and consistently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster
The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated over Texas during re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere, with the loss of all seven crew members
Space Shuttle flight operations were delayed for two years by the disaster, similar to the Challenger disaster. For 29 months the station relied entirely on the Russian Federal Space Agency for resupply and crew rotation
————————
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/The_US_Has_No_Option_But_To_Use_Russia_Soyuz_Craft_999.html
The US Has No Option But To Use Russia’s Soyuz Craft
After 2010, the United States will likely be unable to deliver its astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) on its own. For several years Russia’s Soyuz craft will remain the only vehicle available to do that, and the U.S. may find it hard to do without Russian cooperation.
The American concern has not a leg to stand on: Russia has always been noted for the scrupulous observance of its commitments. It never broke them even during the Cold War.
If worst comes to worst, Russia and the European Space Agency could together run the ISS without American participation. Aside from Russia’s facilities for transporting astronauts and supplies to the station, the European Automated Transfer Vehicle – Advanced Return Vehicle (ATV-ARV) system could chip in. Russia and the ESA are also working jointly on a manned transport system expected to be developed by 2015.
According to Vladimir Solovyov, flight director for the Russian segment, ISS systems are already capable of supporting a six-member crew, and in the future with new Russian modules, of bringing it to 10-member strength.
————————
Can Poles do that? In fact, other than cleaning toilets in Ireland and England, drinking beer and eating kielbasa, what else are you guys good at?
Actually Maimonides/Ostap the Bender, the US uses Russian rockets for non sensitive missions, they use their own (and far more powerful) rockets for their own sensitive ops.
http://www.space.com/10657-largest-american-rocket-launched-california.html
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2011/01/20/news/aa9rocket011911.txt?viewmode=fullstory
And Russia has had its fair share of space disasters Ostap.
@Can Poles do that? In fact, other than cleaning toilets in Ireland and England, drinking beer and eating kielbasa, what else are you guys good at?
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_klushino.html
Speaking of England:
http://www.historynet.com/the-forgotten-few-polish-airmen-fought-during-the-battle-of-britain.htm
And that’s how England still exists. (This, and Corporal Hitler being an idiot as usual.)
Don’t forget the battle of Warsaw in 1920
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_(1920)
Where the Poles saved all of Europe from Russian barbarism, at least until 1945 anyway.
Maimonides – talking about toilets – I saw the perfect russian toilet at Kurskii Vagzal – two raws of Turkish toilets facing each other; unfortunately the doors were stolen so those russian animals were squatting, doing their business and facing each other. The antichamber was a true jewel – walls covered with excrement russian style – laywers upon layers of sh##$% up to the ceiling all in shape of human hands almost like a relief – AND ON THIS SH3$%^ WALL THE LENIN’S PORTRAIT WAS HANGING – VINTAGE RUSSIAN CULTURE….
@ mccusa:
I don’t give a damn as to what you claim you saw. Being a Polish ultra-nationalist, you probably don’t even know what a toilet looks like.
Actually he probably knows how to use one, unlike your esteemed Russian ultra nationalist self…
“What I have next to say concerns the Omsk airport men’s room. I regret this. I have noticed that in books by Siberian travelers of the past they don’t talk about bathrooms and that is probably good. I reluctantly break with this tradition for two reasons. First, I am an American, and Americans pay attention to and care about bathrooms. The habit may show childishness and weak-mindedness, but there it is. Second, if the world really is going to become a global community, then some of our trading partners (I’m talking to you, too, China) need to know how far apart we are on the subject of bathrooms.
The men’s room at the Omsk airport was unbelievably disgusting. Stepping through the door, or even near the door, was like receiving a blow to the face from the flat of a hand. No surface inside the men’s room, including the ceiling, was clean. There were troughs and stools, but no partitions, stalls or doors. Everything was done in full view. The floor was strewn with filth of a wide and eye-catching variety. At the urinal raised cement footprints offered the possibility of keeping your feet out of the flooding mire, but as the footprints themselves were hardly filth-free, the intention failed. Certain of this place’s images that I won’t describe remain unexpugnable from my mind. I got out of there as fast as was practical and reeled away into the terminal’s dim lobby.
Soon Katya appeared, also reeling, from her trip to the ladies’ room. The force of revulsion propelled us clear out of the terminal and into its cracked and weed-surrounded parking lot, where we finally risked taking deep breaths again. First we washed with packaged detergent hand wipes. Then, on our hands and the soles of our shoes we poured rubbing alcohol that Katya had brought along. Readers may think us squeamish (And, in fairness to the Omsk airport, later we did discover the public bathrooms reserved for foreigners, which were upstairs in the terminal, and not as bad; also, for all I know, in the new Russian economy the Omsk airport has upgraded it facilities by now.)
But as I would find out, though the Omsk men’s room was especially awful, that kind of bathroom experience is more the rule than not in Siberia. Winter temperatures there often fall so low that in the outhouses, liquid freezes very quickly, and over the months a sort of stalagmite effect is created, growing up through the hole in the floor. As for the holes themselves, only in the nicer outhouses are they made with a jigsaw that cuts them into conventional oval shapes; more generally they are hacked with an ax into fractured parallelograms. In indoor bathrooms within the permafrost zone, the fragility of the plumbing means that toilet paper cannot be flushed away, and so it is disposed of seperately, usually in its own plastic bucket beside the john . . . Again, I apologize.”
http://borkosmurse.blogspot.com/2010/12/fecular-divide-omsk-airport-bathroom.html
Maimonides, I would like to see your toilet you know the russian style; the hole in the middle and two feet- apparently there was a great improvement; a russian scientist added a stick, as a part of the toilet aquipment just to keep wolves away the whole world is impressed!!!
maimon,why should the sh#$%ty toilets in russian bother you you live in excrements….
Voilà qui est intéressant, pour une fois: “toilets in russian”. Est-ce que tout ce discours très avancé de notre misérable Polonais s’agît d’apprendre un seul mot en russe? Ou a-t-il oublié une partie de la phrase? On dirait qu’il manque un substantif au moins après “russian”. Par example: “toilets in Russian cities”.
Wrong, Maimonides. Being a Polish ultra-nationalist, mccusa only needs to place himself in front of a mirror (if THAT’s not beyond his capabilities, of course) to see a toilet! He doesn’t clean toilets for a living. He offers the toilet’s services and flushes himself around here.
See below some famouse ‘russians’
Chaikowski, Malevich, Czerski, Przewalski, Sikorski, Ciolkowski, Catherine the 1st-Marta Skowronska, my favorite Col. Pienkowski – the list is very long – they are civilized and talented because they are ALL POLISH – in case you didn’t know…By the way, Mendeleev was a Jew…..
Really? Let’s start with Tchaikovsky. Remind me why you think he is Polish. Because his last name ends in “-sky”?
BTW, I always wanted to know: is “jet ski” Polish?
Well Igor Sikorski was of Polish, Ukrainian, and Russian background, so fair to include him on the Polish list, especially as his name is Polish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Sikorsky
Kazimir Malevich was born to ethnic Polish parents and baptised Roman Catholic so he can be on the Polish list too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malevich,
Jan Czerski, the great Paleontologist, Geologist and explorer of Siberia was undoubtably Polish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czerski
Nikolai Przewalski, Great explorer, definitely Polish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski
Konstantin Ciolkowski, the great astronautic theoretician had a Polish father, so fair to include him on a Polish list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciolkowski
Catherine the Great had a Polish father and apparently a Swedish or Balt mother, so including her on the Polish list is fair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marta_Skavronskaya
And so on.
Czajkowsi is one of the most popular and common names in Poland.
How about Feliks Dzerzjinskij? In my humble opinion, he’s the one and only Pshek who has really contributed something worthwhile to the titanic struggle for the liberation of mankind. But boy — did he contribute, Iron Feliks!
The only good thing Dzierzynski did – killed a lot of russians….
Another thing he did is setting up a powerful NKVD structure for Katyn. Do you like Felix for that too?
Claro que si, Amigo.
This structure killed him too (and Yezhov and Yagoda after him as well) and Katyn was hardly the biggest massacre of Poles by the chekists.
Still, they have killed many, many more Russians then poles anyway, including lots and lots of Russian Bolsheviks and their family members (and they killed tens of thousands of Polish communists and their family members too for that matter, like decapitating and more than decimating the entire Polish Communist Party before WWII).
Tchaikovsky, whatever the spelling, is most likely of Ukrainian heritage, but arguably a much more important composer, Stravinsky, clearly was of Polish blood.
What’s the point of digging into the ethnic heritage of the famour/notorious Russians? If we dig, we’ll discover non-ethnic Russian roots in everybody. Zhirinovsky is half-Jewish, Putin is of Finnish roots:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=326398&page=2
Yes, Putin is rumoured to be a Finnish origin. Or more accurately a Karelian origin. His family and ancestors come from the Tver area, where a lot of Finnish Karelians emigrated in the 1600’s. They were persecuted by the Swedish crown and the Swedish Lutheran church, because they wanted to keep their Orthodox religion. So they had to leave their traditional homeland Karelia to move to Tver, which locates near Moscow. These people are said the be the forefathers of Vladimir Putin (in Finnish Puutiainen or Poutiainen).
/////////////
So what? They are all Russians.
Actually his mother is most likely an Ethnic Russian from Georgia.
She is not too proud of sonny boy either.
To be honest Andrew, would you be proud if you had a “sonny boy” like that?
As for me, I would have flushed him down the toilet immediately after he was born. An act that the smart Russians would undoubtedly be thankful for!
maimon, nice try, but putin has nothing to do with Finland, he is a quintessential russian peasant.
And what does Tchaikovsky have with Poland?
Maimonides; Chaikowski had Polish blood.
Rumor has it that Putain is of Chukchi and Russian peasant origin…
liberation of mankind from what tovariszczcszsz kleine schwaine- I thought, you primitive russian hordes learn something from countries like Poland – freedom, democracy – but I keep dreaming russkiye govno, ostaniot v govnie – tam tak uyutno…..
Sorry, Pshek — I’m Swedish. Men för en korkad fåntratt som mccusa är nog de flesta ryssar; rätta mig om jag har fel.
Sorry Katsap – you are a russian mental patient who run away from the mental hospital in moscow – you know the hospitals where dissidents were tortured; and, by the way, don’t insult Swedish people….
I’m not insulting Swedes in general; only those deserving to be insulted or worse — Anders Åslund being a strong case in point.
Poles and USians are a different matter, though.
Is my non-Russian descent, residence, and citizenship disappointing to you, love?
kleine schwaine; so, even russians are ashamed of being russians – and I sympathize with you – to march to the gulags by millions like pigs to the slaughter houses in order to save ‘russian empire’ and failso miserably obviously caused 200% increase in drinking and 500% increase in taking Afghan heroin – this whole enterprise called russia is one cosmic failure. Of course, Poles and USians are a different matter; contrary to the russian/mongols hordes they are civilized – in case you haven’t noticed, dear kacap.
Psheks, USians and Zionazis are not civilized unless that word’s central meaning suddenly amounts to “peoples WAY above criticism”. Delusional, silly bigots such as you will never bé able to grasp the significance of the fact that I’ve singled out Anders Åslund for (very) special treatment. Worse even: Your postings only amount to spewing the same boring, unintelligent, tiresome rants day in and day out.
Ergo: Germany and Russia should carve up Poland once and for all. Polish nation = Worthless country, worthless people, worthless faith — mccusa proves this superbly.
Katsap, China will carve russia once and for all- worthless country, worthless people, worthless faith – Manfred Steifshanz proves this superbly.
Let’s settle this in a more simplified manner shall we chaps?
Name a recent Russian invention you own or use…
……
Correct.
LOL, well said Wal
Ah come on Wal!! Be fair, as after all, you have given us an impossible task to accomplish.
Oh come on Wal,
All great modern inventions come from Andrew’s Georgia, Mccusa’s Poland and Bohdan’s Ukraine.
The periodic table was invented by Medeleyevishvili, the first man in Space was Gagarinko, the greatest living mathematician is Grigory Perelmanski, and the American astronauts travel into Space by means of the joint Georgian-Polish “Soyuz” space ships:
————————
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster
The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated over Texas during re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere, with the loss of all seven crew members
Space Shuttle flight operations were delayed for two years by the disaster, similar to the Challenger disaster. For 29 months the station relied entirely on the Russian Federal Space Agency for resupply and crew rotation
————————
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/The_US_Has_No_Option_But_To_Use_Russia_Soyuz_Craft_999.html
The US Has No Option But To Use Russia’s Soyuz Craft
After 2010, the United States will likely be unable to deliver its astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) on its own. For several years Russia’s Soyuz craft will remain the only vehicle available to do that, and the U.S. may find it hard to do without Russian cooperation.
The American concern has not a leg to stand on: Russia has always been noted for the scrupulous observance of its commitments. It never broke them even during the Cold War.
If worst comes to worst, Russia and the European Space Agency could together run the ISS without American participation. Aside from Russia’s facilities for transporting astronauts and supplies to the station, the European Automated Transfer Vehicle – Advanced Return Vehicle (ATV-ARV) system could chip in. Russia and the ESA are also working jointly on a manned transport system expected to be developed by 2015.
According to Vladimir Solovyov, flight director for the Russian segment, ISS systems are already capable of supporting a six-member crew, and in the future with new Russian modules, of bringing it to 10-member strength.
————————
LOL, the Soyuz is just cheaper than its competitors, it has a lot of failed launches too, luckily just not with astronauts recently, though there have been dozens of close calls.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2008/04/the-real-soyuz-problem-looking-past-the-smoke-and-flames/
Russian launch vehicles are cheap and nasty, and at the moment the cheap part is what budget constrained NASA types are looking at, it is only a matter of time, after all, a lot of Russian Cosmonauts have died, but the Russians don’t talk about (or learn from) their failures.
Further deaths from the Russian launch systems inherent problems are only a matter of time:
Soyuz Fails Again in an Exceptionally Dangerous Re-entry
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2008/space-080422-vick01.htm
And when the US wants to launch some really heavy items into space, they use US made rockets, they also use them when they want to launch something sensitive of course.
The ISS would not exist without the heavy launch capacity of the space shuttle, and it was a remarkable achievement, considering how many times each was flown, compared to the Soyuz launch vehicles and capsules which were all use only once items.
Maimondides, again on Afghan heroin and contaminated russian samogon – what do I keep telling you dearie, stop before is too late you stupid katsap – on the other hand, I think you should continue. ….
The question is whether russian can run ISS without EU e.g., Western techonology – the answer is a resound NO…
Ifou are too stupid to understand what Americans are doing; here is the explanation – they are dropping russians from the future cooperation – you have nothing to offer, and you will never catch up with the American technology; you should start thinking about russia as a third world country with no industry, no technology [skolkovo is such a joke we won’t talk about it], with aging and rotting old nukes, and no future. By the way, in the USA, russia drop out of the radar totally – NOBODY talks about russia – and this the most cruel punishment for you…..
The recent Russian ‘invention’ is a Tea with Polonium’ …..
Cries of Russian collapse are going out of the Russians themselves and the cause of this is the too high self-esteem and the paranoidal idea of the greedy eyes of potential conquerers. For example look at the map of Chinese population which approaches to zero near Russian borders. The Russian collapse is in the reality the collapse of aggressiveness that frightens Russians vary much.
Maimonide! You must fight your Stockholm Syndrome toward Russia and abandon manu–millioned masses of Jewish Obama-voters.
Ben,
I can’t help you. I don’t specialize in treating mental disabilities.
L’effondrement proche de l’état néo-Soviet de Poutine est une excellente chose vu qu’à cette époque la Russie sera majoritairement bicote.
Pas que ça fasse une grande différence, même les chiottes Russe et Arabe,
c’est du pareil au même:
Quant à cet Effondrement-de-l’État-Neo-Sovietique-de-Poutine, les perspectives se partagent évidemment parmi nos chers Russophobes. Quelques-uns rabâchent d’une colonisation chinoise, quelques-autres des musulmans ou de “bicots”. Pourriez vous vous décider enfin? Sinon, la perspective la plus vraisemblable c’est l’épouvante pure — la Russie est les Russes persisteront. Non, non — ça ne peut pas être vrai…
“the country’s most popular ski resort” now looks like that:
Airstrikes, Mortar Blasts on Mount Elbrus
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/airstrikes-mortar-blasts-on-mount-elbrus/431530.html
“Popular ski resorts” in normal/real countries usually don’t look that, but hey, “proud to be different”.
Peace and stability is escalating also elsewhere in the region, too:
Moreover, the decision taken on February 10 to terminate all rail transport on the territory of Chechnya and Dagestan from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. is additional proof that the situation in the region can hardly be characterized as calm (http://www.rian.ru/society/20110210/332925470.html). A similar regulation was in effect in Chechnya during the fierce fighting that occurred there in 1999-2002. Almost ten years later, the Russian leadership has had to admit that it has gone back to measures that first were introduced in the region by Vladimir Putin, the then Russian president, at the beginning of the second Russo-Chechen war. This decision was a further response to the numerous train bombings perpetrated by militants throughout Dagestan for most of last year, including the reintroduction of Russian armored trains. The newly enacted measure will affect rail connections not only between Dagestan and Chechnya, but to and from Azerbaijan as well.
Hi Guys,
Sorry I missed the follow up messages, I just took my Buran shuttle for a drive up the street to have my Faberge Eggs massaged and some chairs made for my periodic table .
I’m quite angry actually, as I had a small collision with an Ekranoplan in the car-park and didn’t get his license plate.
Regards,
Wal
Thanks for the laugh Wal! one needs it after having to put up with the gibberish nonsense that Maimonedes, or is it Mymoron… dreams up.
I suspect its either the marijuana or opium that he flogs to death. I mean what else can it be, but?
“But Japan, unlike Russia, has a fabulous diversified economy, hardworking honest people”
Except that when the pensioners die they get hacked up, put into plastic bags, and tossed in the attic while the family keeps collecting the checks:
http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/ifaonline/news/1732431/japanese-families-claim-dead-parents-pensions
http://www.fool.co.uk/news/investing/2011/01/28/japan-is-dying.aspx
Dear All,
I have just located this article where one of the world’s best drivers places a Russian car in his top 5 best car list.
Another wonderful invention!
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/stig-these-in-your-top-five-20110224-1b6c4.html
Wal wrote: “Sorry I missed the follow up messages, I just took my Buran shuttle for a drive up the street to have my Faberge Eggs massaged and some chairs made for my periodic table . I’m quite angry actually, as I had a small collision with an Ekranoplan in the car-park and didn’t get his license plate.”
To those who are new to LR: Wal’s comment is hilariously funny because in reality, he can’t even drive his own beat up Chevy truck after that DUI incident. NASA and the Russian Space Agency will refuse to send him into Space even if he is the last primate left on earth. Worse come to worse, they will go with the intellectually superior Belka and Strelka.
The only eggs he can afford are chicken eggs once a week, the only culture he has is his yeast culture, the only table that he knows is missing several screws, and the only metal plate that he has is in his cranial cavity.
May we ask why you published the same comment under two different names, creep? Do it again and you are banned.
He has posted under the names Ostap the Bender/RTR/Arthur/Maimonides/Voice Of Reason/Michael Tal….
BTW Gostapo, Wal was funny, you on the other hand are pathetic.
The comment was not pathetic. The comment was the kind of things that children in the “older group” say in kindergarten. :)