Nazis and Russians, Birds of a Sordid Feather

A movie review in The New Yorker shows the horrifying similarity of behavior between Russians and Nazis during World War II. In fact, it’s easily arguable that the Nazis were not as a bad as the Russians when it came to murdering innocent people in Eastern Europe:

Claude Lanzmann’s “Shoah,” the shattering nine-hour documentary about the Holocaust, which was first shown in New York in 1985, has, on its twenty-fifth anniversary, reopened here and will soon appear in museums, universities, and select theatres across the country. Back in 1985, the film left me bruised and sore, moved by its clarifying passions and its electrifying rhetoric, and amazed by its revolutionary form. Lanzmann, a French filmmaker and intellectual journalist, omitted photographs, newsreels, and documents (all the usual historical materials), and, instead, reconstructed the past from what remained of it in the present.

He used the testimony of three groups of people: survivors of the death camps in Poland, most of them Jews who worked for the Nazis and either escaped or outlived the camps at the end of the war; Nazi guards and functionaries; and Polish witnesses, some of them farmers living near the camps who respond to memory with a bemused shrug and a few smiles, others villagers who make typical anti-Semitic remarks. And Lanzmann filmed, with obsessive precision and poetic eloquence, the physical remnants, the trains, tracks, and roads that conveyed prisoners to Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz-Birkenau—camps that the Poles left standing, half as memorial sites and half as cursed and loathsome wastelands, and whose environs and interiors he crosses and crisscrosses.

All this was fascinating, but I wondered whether seeing “Shoah” again could teach audiences anything new. And was there not a possible moral danger in fascination—the habit of returning to the Jewish catastrophe over and over for an emotional workout without receiving further illumination from it?

There is, however, a startling new interpretation of the period which makes another viewing of “Shoah” necessary not as an immersion in sorrows but as a fresh experience. A few months ago, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale, brought out a stunning book called “Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin” (Basic; $29.95), which chronicles not just the Holocaust but also the many mass killings perpetrated during the years 1933 to 1945 by both the Nazis and the Soviets, especially in eastern Poland, the Baltic states, and areas nominally within the Soviet Union, such as Ukraine and Belarus.

Parts or all of this vast territory were stormed by armies and occupied no less than three times: first, by the Red Army, after the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939 in effect ceded eastern Poland and the Baltic states to the Soviet Union; then, beginning in June, 1941, by the German attack on the same lands, an assault by three million men which subsequently advanced deep into the Soviet Union; and then, of course, by the Soviet counterattack and “liberation,” which expelled the Germans from the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in 1944 and 1945. Each army was accompanied by killing units: the Nazis by S.S. death squads, German “security police,” and local thugs who were recruited, or intimidated, into doing their part; the Soviets by the secret police—the N.K.V.D.—which, in 1939 (and after), continued the mass exterminations begun on Stalin’s orders in the early thirties, when five and a half million people, most of them in Ukraine, were starved to death. In all, from 1933 to 1945, fourteen million noncombatants died in what Snyder calls the “bloodlands.”

As Snyder demonstrates, the Nazis and the Soviets may have been trying to destroy each other in the ferocious combat of 1941 to 1945, but, if one looks at the entire thirteen-year period that he describes, the two totalitarian powers occasionally acted in a kind of weird concert, in which each side emboldened or even enabled the other. For instance, when the Soviets murdered twenty-two thousand Polish reserve officers in the Katyn forest, in 1940, they were mirroring the German slaughter of the Polish professional classes in German-occupied western Poland. And when the Polish Home Army revolted against the Germans in occupied Warsaw, in 1944, the Soviets, who had encouraged the uprising, fought and defeated the Germans outside the city but then waited for months as the Nazis crushed the Poles inside it. When the Soviets finally entered Warsaw, they not only routed the Germans but, with the help of Polish Communists, suppressed the surviving anti-Nazis, thereby finishing the job of subduing the spirit of Polish independence. Without diminishing in any way the Jewish Holocaust, Snyder insists that it should not be seen as separate from the many other mass slaughters of civilians—the millions of Poles, Belarusians, Balts, and Ukrainians killed for political or ideological reasons, or merely because they were an encumbrance that needed to be cleared away to make space for German or Soviet occupancy.

That kind of large-scale historical account is certainly not what Lanzmann intended. “Shoah” is solely about the war against the Jews. It is, in fact, devoted to one aspect of that war—the transportation of Jews from various corners of Europe to the extermination centers in Poland and the killings by gas, first at Chelmno, where mobile vans were used, and then at Treblinka, Sobibor, and Auschwitz-Birkenau, with their gas chambers and crematoriums. From Lanzmann’s movie, you would not know that by the time of the Wannsee Conference, in Berlin, in January, 1942, in which the Final Solution was openly plotted by the S.S., perhaps a million Jews had already been killed, mainly by shootings in the places where they lived, the bodies dumped into pits and buried. Roughly as many Jews were killed by bullets as by gas in the Holocaust, a fact not widely known to this day. Certainly, we need to know everything, understand everything, feel everything. Snyder’s book, by making an original account of the period in copious detail laid out in sombrely blunt declarative sentences, should expand these three faculties in anyone who engages its grim but lucid exposition. His point about the Jewish tragedy, as I understand it, is that you can’t get the Holocaust straight if you don’t get the entire history of the period straight.

What he doesn’t emphasize (he says it in passing) is that Hitler’s war against the Jews was an attempt to eliminate an entire people—to efface their identity altogether—whereas Stalin’s campaign against, say, Ukraine was an attempt to eliminate not all Ukrainians but those who conceivably might resist collectivization and the triumph of Communism. But it serves no purpose to get into a competition of horrors, or a competition of chroniclers. Snyder is a historian, and Lanzmann an artist; they are doing different things. Watching “Shoah” again, I recognized, with Snyder’s help, the specialized nature of what it establishes, but its force was not lessened. By relying on the testimony of participants, Lanzmann brought the past into the present—the eternal present, renewed in the act of existential re-creation before the camera. The Nazis offer themselves sometimes hesitatingly, sometimes proudly, with coy avowals of pity for the Jews, or with outrageous pity for themselves as overworked executioners; the survivors speak with hallucinatory vividness. One of them, Filip Müller, a Slovak Jew, was twenty when he was a member of a special work detail at Auschwitz. He describes the layout of the gas chamber; at the same time, Lanzmann’s camera, as if entering Hell itself, moves in flickering light through the chamber. In a second narrative, devoted to his time down the road at Birkenau, Müller describes his desolation when a group of Czechs, who had been kept alive for some months, suddenly faced death, and Müller, no longer able to bear what he was doing (clearing out and burning the bodies), joined them in the chamber, only to be told by several of the women about to die that he had to survive and tell the world what he had seen. Müller’s two stories, in their precision and their melding of horror and emotional saturation, are beyond anything that fiction has given us in the cinema.

Again and again, Lanzmann goes into Birkenau, filming with his camera on the track, passing first through the entrance—a squared-off opening in a long horizontal building—and then stopping at the ramp, where the passengers were unloaded. This is a visionary film that stubbornly traverses the ground. In Pauline Kael’s almost comically obtuse negative review of the movie, published in this magazine, she said of Lanzmann that “the heart of his obsession appears to be to show you that the Gentiles will do it again to the Jews if they get the chance.” But the notion that the Holocaust might happen again is exactly what “Shoah” is not about. It’s about the enormity of its happening once. “Shoah” is a topographic work. Where, specifically, did the trains stop at Sobibor? How many feet was it to the entrance to the camp? Sobibor is now just a scraggly field, but Lanzmann measures the distance, paces it off. He doesn’t ask how morality could have accommodated the Holocaust. He asks how reality could have accommodated it. Far from being a limited work, “Shoah” becomes an enraged metaphysical protest against the nature of existence itself.

67 responses to “Nazis and Russians, Birds of a Sordid Feather

  1. This article is written by a Zionist Jew and the Shoa is also made and constructed by Zionist Jew. In fact, nothing in this article stands for scrutiny because it is built on fiction and lies so that any person, group, or country who question the legitimacy of the hollocoust will be smeared as anti-semitic. These sort of articles and propaganda are intended to make people feel sorry for the Jews and their suffering on the hands of the Nazis. I am one of those people who look at the zionist Jews in Israel and wonder if the Nazis have inflicted pain and suffering on the Jews in the middle of last century as much as the Jews in Palestine have inflicted on the innocent Palestinian people who have have murdred and uprooted from their homes and villages to make room for the so called holocoust survivers and come and live in Palestine. Enough lies we are totally sick of it.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    The article is just a review of a book and a movie, it is the book and the movie whose contents and information are being discussed. Neither the author of the book nor the author of the movie are Jewish and the author of the article is not even stated in our publication. It is the world-famous movie critic David Denby.

    You are an illiterate, ignorant, racist ape.

    • Israelis even cannot refuse to call themselves in a racist “jewish state” manner, despite many arabs and other minorities are leaving there. What the do with Palestinians is genocide, much worse than holocoust.

      • Jeez Casasa, so where are the millions of dead, the gas chambers and death camps, the mass executions.

        Nice try Casasa, but like all things you post here an epic fail.

        Now what the Russians did to ethnic minorities in the 20th and now 21st centuries is far worse than the Nazi holocaust…..

        • Hah! Say that to AIPAC. They will sue you for defamation.

        • You are sick with your “ethnic minorities” ravings. Tell us about “Chircassian genocide” again, but don’t forget to mention of British empire genocide of Indians, or the US genocide of native people. Russians made free almost the whole Europe from fascism and that would make all shallow attempts of small stinky assholes like you to compare nazi and Russians hopeless. You can bark but cannot bite.

          • The Russians enslaved eastern Europe with a government every bit as foul as that of the Nazi Germans.

            Germany killed around 22,000,000 people, Russia killed 62,000,000 people.

            What genocide of the Indians?

            • Oh what a smart body count calculator are you, Andrew! Go further – 62 bln!!!!

              • 10 bln, 22 bln, 62 bln, … overflow. “Andrew” is dead, our only hope is “Cray Jaguar”.

                • He is just a jerk. But the capitalist “liberated” Eastern Europe now got an exclusive privilege of selling its women to the West. The Slavic nations are enjoying the benefits of free market: unemployment, prostitution, drugs, and US military bases.

              • Whoever wishes to REALLY impress on the Western bourgeois surrogate for ‘scientific community’ should set his/her estimate equal to Avogadro’s number. This amounts to a ‘6’ accompanied by no less than twenty-three subsequent 0’s. A suchlike estimate arguably keeps hyperinflationary tendencies in check, even by the crappy standards devised for bourgeois propaganda, ha!

                • LOL, a Stiffy, GE, and Casasa, you all show such subhuman intellect you should be glad that breathing is a subconscious function, if you had to think about it all three of you would have a serious problem.

                  Meanwhile, 62,000,000 dead in the Russian led genocide is a fairly well researched number:

                  Chapter 1. 61,911,000 Victims: Utopianism Empowered 1917 to 1987

                  http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM

                  http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM

                  • Andrew, мой дорогой маленький дурачок:

                    I can’t speak for casasa or for Good Empire, but in my humble case, you’re definitely spot-on as you speak of “subhuman intellect”. Why do you think I’m attracted to this blog?

                    And, just for comparison, 100 million killed — even in just 30 years’ time (1924 – 1953) — is zero, zilch, nada. It’s less than what Western imperialism kills in less than a frigging decade, mind you.

                    • Wrong as usual Viagra addict.

                      Give us some actual figures child.

                      You know, researched figures, not the rubbish you pull out of your overused arse.

                    • Come on, darling — do you really expect a subhuman intellect to take on any research? Maybe you’re right, though. It could well be that the appropriate equation reads:

                      x = 1/y

                      where x = amount of people killed by Western imperialism and y = Stalin’s body pile. It becomes even more revealing in the equivalent rendition

                      y = 1/x

                      Since, by your standards, x is all but 0 — to wit, infinitesimal — one REALLY shudders at Stalin’s achievements. Am I in the right here, sage Andrew of unsurpassed intellectual tenacity (pretty, pleeeeease) ?

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      As always, I laugh my *** off whenever LA RUSSOPHOBE proudly announces the verdict as in:

      >> You are an illiterate, ignorant, racist ape >>

      Absolutely correct! You get the readership you deserve, lady.

  2. Soviet killing squads? Soviet People paid 27 million lives to save the world from the Nazis. With all due respect to the horrific massacre of the Jewish people just think about it – it was 27, not 6 million! The West which employed dozens of the former Nazi collaborators as its agents during the Cold War now is trying to wipe out all memories of the enormous Soviet (not only Russian) sacrifice. Seems like there were no Stalingrad Battle when the fate of the whole humanity was at stake. And now that very same triumphant Western Civilization is doing its best to see the body of its former adversary completely decomposed. Vae Victis!
    If you are not too stupid to think that Gen McArthur was the real liberator of Europe check this brilliant documentary shot by the Soviet Jewish director Michael Romm. It’s called “Ordinary Nazism”. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1107208262744084141#
    By the way the Chinese lost about 40 million lives in the WWII. And there’s not outcry about the Chinese holocaust. Why is that so? Were the Japanese exterminators more humble than their German colleagues?

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      Too bad we still have to put up with 300 million National Socialists and their wildly insane rantings about Manifest Destiny and ditto Exceptionalism. The US Settler Empire set the template for Nazi Germany as well as for the latter’s successor, to wit the Zionist Entity, long before these monstrosities came into existence. The US had all but exterminated the Natives very recently and gloated in its crimes in newspapers, books, and films promoted abroad, just as US imperialism continues to do today. Getting rid of the Americans is an indispensa

      • Actually, Russian communism set the pattern for national socialism (nazism) in Germany.

        • Of course. That’s why the Nazis burnt all their German communists alive. Not to mention 27 000 Soviet people that they killed.

          • I think you left a few zero’s off retard.

            However, research shows that of the 27,000,000 people from the USSR (majority non Russians) who died, around 13,000,000(nearly half) were actually killed by the Russian government, and most of those were non Russians.

            Chapter 7. 13,053,000 Victims: World War II Period June, 1941 to 1945

            http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM

            You really are inferior GE.

          • Oh yes, the Nazi party, like Communism, had it’s roots in Marx & Engels works.

            It was the “National Socialist Workers Party Of Germany” after all.
            Though given your obviously inferior education in Russia I guess you missed the bit about socialism.

            Of course it was “Nationalist” Socialism as opposed to the “Internationalist” Socialism of Russia (which was actually nationalist anyway)

            Of course, the Nazi party also followed the edict of Engels that “Russians were a reactionary race and must be destroyed during the revolution”

          • Communists have always rejected indignantly the very idea of comparing communism and Nazism. This is not surprising: the comparison would have been rejected with the same indignation by the Nazis. Yet, the comparison has been made many times over the years by authors such as Waldemar Gurian, Elie Halévy, George Orwell, Victor Serge, André Gide, Simone Weil, Marcel Mauss, and Bernard Shaw. Those who had the sad privilege of being imprisoned both in the Soviet and in the Nazi camps had the opportunity to compare them concretely. One of these was Margarete Buber-Neumann. Part of a group of German communists who had fallen in disfavor with Stalin, she was imprisoned in the Karaganda camp in Siberia in 1937, then handed over by the Soviet secret police (then called NKVD) to the Gestapo at the time of the Nazi-Soviet pact in 1939. Set free from the Ravensbruck camp in 1945, she had this to say: “I do not think a difference of degree ever existed or exists today in favor of the Soviet camps.”
            Her voice was immediately suppressed.

            http://www.alaindebenoist.com/pdf/evil_twins.pdf

  3. “Too bad we still have to put up with 300 million National Socialists and their wildly insane rantings about Manifest Destiny and ditto Exceptionalism. ”

    Really? Last time i checked it was Russia that launched close to a dozen military operations in its “near abroad” since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Not to mention the fact that it is the largest territory on the planet.

    “The US Settler Empire set the template for Nazi Germany as well as for the latter’s successor, to wit the Zionist Entity, long before these monstrosities came into existence. ”

    Lol! You mean those same American settlers that came from Spain, Portugal, Britain and France, wiped out the vast majority of of the native people’s nearly 2 centuries before the entity known as the United States existed served as the template for Nazism? Amazing. The US must own a time machine somewhere.
    Oh, and lets not forget the fact that the brave Russian settler was marching towards the Pacific ocean decades before that monstrous United States existed.

    “The US had all but exterminated the Natives very recently and gloated in its crimes in newspapers, books, and films promoted abroad, just as US imperialism continues to do today.”

    Not nearly as recent as the Russians all but exterminated the peoples of central Asia, Eastern Europe and Siberia. Nor did it ever reach the magnitude.

    • The answer to this creepy lies is simple. Do we know any Native American astronauts? Does the world know any of the Soviet Central Asian cosmonauts? Surely – starting with Toktar Aubakirov. I don’t even mention Caucasian poets, Baltic engineers, Ukrainian scientists. From times immemorial the US was built on the grounds of eliminating the savage people by the so called higher white protestant civilization. Same thing as in India during the colonial rule. Check the statue of Teddy Roosevelt that still meets crowds at the entrance to the Natural History Museum in New York. An honorary white master accompanied by the barefoot negro slave and Indian chief.
      I guess the only contribution the American natives were allowed to make to the world’s culture is Trent Reznor, and his Nine Inch Nails band. You should talk to people like him or Leonard Peltier of how high they grade your Good Empire.

  4. Good Empire: speaking of collaboration, I suggest you read about the treaty of Rapallo, the Molotov- von Ribbentrop pact and the subsequent economic treaties between the two countries

    • Why don’t you start with the Munich agreement (collusion) first?

      • The Munich Collusion/Pact/Betrayal is indeed worth to mention. The agreement was signed by Nazi Germany, France, Britain, and Italy, and after it all arguments regarding Molotov-Ribbentrop become a double-standard tautology. Right after Munich, Poland, “a greedy hyena of Europe” (W Churchill), annexes parts of Czechoslovakia.

        • While the Munich Accord (may be a Pact) was an act of cowardice and appeasement, especially on Mr. Chamberlain’s part, the British or French got no gain nor territory as a result. It was a shameful display of lack of statesmanship and vision, but it was not more than that.

          Now compare with the von Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement and you will see the difference. Stalin got Latvia and Estonia (Lithuania was added by a later agreement), and about a third of Poland as a result plus a large chunk of Romania.

          So, Stalin had achieved purely aggressive, expansionist objectives as a result. Are you going to deny that?

          And most importantly, from where we stand now, the British and French policies that led to Munich has been universally condemned around the world, as well as inside the UK and France. But you seem to justify the Soviet conduct and policy that resulted in the von Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement. Are you or are you not justifying it now?

          • Oh man….Don’t you understand that the Munich Agreement was the pretext for Molotov-Ribbentrop? The West stroke a deal with the Nazis hoping that Hitler will go east. What were the USSR’s options? To fight a war with Germany and Japan at once? If it was ok for the West to get a peace act with Germans, why should the USSR become a whipping boy? Stalin couldn’t be Hitler’s ally for ONE AND SIMPLE REASON (I understand you never studied history at school, but it makes me sick): the Soviets were already fighting the Nazi Germans since the Civil War in Spain broke out in the 30s (means Soviets killing fascists and vice versa). All the communist world including many Americans was fighting there against the global right wing forces. If you check Soviet propaganda of the 30s you’d be stunned with how fascists were presented there. The famous Alexander Nevsky (where Russians defeat the Teutonic Knights) movie was produced not during WWII but in 1938!!! Meanwhile there were DOZENS of people in the US (Henry Ford and Lindbergh the most prominent) who openly promoted the Nazi cause, met with the Nazis, and invested in the Nazi Germany. Just google “American companies&Hitler”. If you’re still not impressed, my dear friend, here come some educational videos for you:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACmJcJsrRU (shot by the US military during the war)
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKZJJcLJzPs&feature=related (shot and aired by PBS)

            Finally, in case you don’t trust even the original footage go find the Hollywood’s “Good Shepherd” with Damon and Jolie and go to a scene where an American Nazi society assembles for a celebration. There were NO such societies and Nazi sympathizers in the USSR. That is why the Soviet People won the greatest war in human history, saved some nations from total extermination (including Americans), and put an end to the world of colonial exploitation and unmatched capitalism. And that is also why the US had to employ the Nazis to stop the advancement of socialism by all means.

            • Rubbish.

              Germany and the USSR were cooperating long before the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, and long before Munich.

              The Luftwaffe and Panzerwaffe were both originally created and trained in secret in the USSR in the late 20’s and early 30’s

              Learn your history.

              • Your last name is Suvorov, is it? And you work for MI6 history falsification directorate? Then it’s understood. I’m telling you the 2 countries were literally AT WAR since the civil war in Spain broke out. All Soviet propaganda of that time was built on showing the dangers of the fascist capitalism (according to the classics of socialism fascism is the ultimate form of capitalism). Germans were assisting Finland in its war against Moscow. And they offered home to Trotzky. Of course the USSR didn’t give a damn about that and kept doing what that jackal renegade wrote in his “Ledokol” fairy tale.

              • Late 20s??? What’s the f***!! Was that during the Weimar Republic or under Bismark? Or maybe Frederick I of Prussia? “WII for dummies” that was your history textbook.

                • They cooperated during the late part of the Wiemar republic, and right through the rise of the Nazi party up to the beginning of Barbarossa.

                  In fact without the oil and other raw materials supplied by Russia up to 1941, the German war machine would not have gotten anywhere in its invasion of the west in 1938-40.

                  Try again retard, just because you have no understanding of the slime that constitutes Russian history….

                  • maybe u should watch the videos I mentioned first. Even if u don’t trust Russian propaganda you should be pretty open for that of the US Armed forces.

                    • Actually there were a lot of Nazi sympathizers in Russia.

                      General Vlasov springs immediately to mind, and the more than 1,000,000 Hiwi’s who assisted and frequently fought for the Germans in places such as Stalingrad, and even at Berlin.

                      As for Spain, well most of those killed by the Russian “volunteers” in Spain were “fellow” socialists of the wrong school. Try reading Orwell on the subject dickhead.

                      Stalin was Hitlers ally, see the joint invasion of Poland, the joint victory parades, the SS & Gestapo studying the Gulags under the tutelage of the NKVD for details.

                      Spain was a testing ground for weaponry, nothing more. Once the Russians had the data they needed they left the republicans to hang, which considering red terror in Spain killed far more people than Nationalist terror, was probably just as well.

                    • I suggest you learn to read you Sovok moron:

                      http://www.amazon.com/Spain-Betrayed-Soviet-Spanish-Communism/dp/0300089813

                      You do realize that Stalin made the Republicans hand over the entire gold reserves of Spain in return for the limited aid he sent don’t you?

                      That he was more concerned with destroying non Stalinist elements in Spain than ensuring a victory for the Republicans.

                      FOR MANY PEOPLE in many countries, the heroic myth of the Spanish Republic is closely linked to the International Brigades. Nobody can doubt the idealism and self-sacrifice of the volunteers from 52 nations who went in the belief that they could defeat fascism in Spain, yet recent discoveries in Russian archives cast a chilling light on the Comintern organisers who threw away their lives so callously in futile attacks.
                      Even before most volunteers reached Spain, Soviet advisers were planning to destroy their left-wing allies. In September 1936 General Gorev reported to Moscow: “A struggle against the anarchists is absolutely inevitable after victory over the Whites. This struggle will be very severe.” André Marty, the Comintern representative, wrote in October: “After victory we will get even with them, all the more so since at that point we will have a strong army.” And Pravda declared openly in December that the “cleaning up of Trotskyist and anarcho-syndicalist elements will be carried out with the same energy as in the USSR”. The Popular Front alliance was merely a tactic “for the moment”. Stalinists were not prepared to share power with anybody else.

                      Although Stalin had said that he wanted “to prevent the enemies of Spain from seeing her as ‘a communist republic’ ”, Comintern representatives sought total control. Spanish Communists had infiltrated the directorate of personnel in the Ministry of Defence from the start of the war. By March 1937 party members held 27 out of the 38 key posts, and sympathisers held several more. A report to Moscow that month claimed: “The party now has hegemony in the army, and this hegemony is developing and becoming firmly established more and more each day.”

                      Marty wrote about the socialist prime minister in a revealing report to Moscow. Largo Caballero, having been a Communist sympathiser and hailed by their press as the Spanish Lenin, had discovered the reality of their tactics. “Caballero does not want defeat,” Marty wrote to Dimitrov, “but he is afraid of victory . . . Victory means an even greater strengthening of the position of the Communist Party. A final military victory over the enemy means for Caballero and the whole world the political hegemony of the Communist Party in Spain. This is a natural and indisputable thing . . . a republican Spain, raised from the ruins of fascism and led by Communists, a free Spain of a new republican type, will be a great economic and military power, carrying out a policy of solidarity and close connection with the Soviet Union.” Comintern bosses evidently saw the Spanish Republic as a future Soviet satellite state despite Stalin’s desire to hide his involvement.

                      Non-Communist International Brigaders, believing the slogans of anti-fascist unity, were dismayed by Communist hatred of Leftist allies, but party members swallowed the line of the Moscow show trials that “Troskyist-Fascists” were secret Gestapo agents. Stalinist paranoia was exported to Spain, yet Russian historians are starting to believe that the conspiracy theories manufactured in Spain served to accelerate the purges in the Soviet Union.

                      The greatest shock for these “volunteers for freedom”, as the International Brigaders were called, came with the Soviet style of discipline, selecting men at random and shooting them through the back of the head. When one division retreated during the Segovia offensive, General Walter also ordered “the machine-gunning of those who pull back, executions on the spot, and the beating of stragglers”. Even the elite Spanish Communist formation, the 11th Division, was not spared. After it collapsed during the Battle of Brunete, the chief Soviet adviser reported to Moscow: “Lister’s division lost its head and fled. We managed with great difficulty to bring it back under control. The toughest repressive measures had to be applied. About 400 of those fleeing were shot on 24 July.”

                      Soviet reports emphasise the appalling state in which the International Brigades found themselves after Brunete. They had suffered 4,300 casualties out of a strength of 13,353. Nearly 5,000 men were in hospital from disease as well as wounds. The head of the International Brigade camp at Albacete reported to Moscow that the performance of the brigades at Brunete had been affected by “the systematic work of the fifth column”.

                      Every blunder was attributed to deliberate sabotage. General Walter, convinced that the International Brigades had been infiltrated, set up machineguns behind the lines. “The surrender of Brunete and the flight of many brigades were, to a significant extent, the result of panic sown by the ‘fifth column’ that the Fascists had spread around our forces.” The International Brigades even established their own “concentration camp”, called Camp Lukacs. No less than 4,000 men were sent to this punishment camp over the next three months.

                      Stalinist paranoia intensified. During the Saragossa offensive in August, General Walter accused Spanish medical staff of murdering wounded brigaders in hospital through “methods of treating the sick that were patently the work of wreckers”. In addition, “a large-scale Trotskyist spy and terrorist organisation” was suspected in XIV International Brigade. Walter called the Soviet NKVD in Barcelona to come to investigate, but “Brigade commander Sanje took it upon himself to carry out the investigation. He went to work so ardently and clumsily that the arrested man, a French lieutenant, quickly died during interrogation, taking with him the secret of the organisation.”

                      The damage to morale was devastating, yet hardly any brigaders repeated what they had seen on their return home for fear of harming the cause of the Republic. Meanwhile, their Comintern commanders, who revelled in a ruthless devotion to the Stalinist cause, did not imagine that their reports to Moscow would ever be revealed, albeit nearly 70 years later.

                      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article1083169.ece

            • Well, Chamberlain and the French truly and honestly believed that Munich was to ensure peace. They were stupid, naive, cowardly and almost criminally myopic, that goes without saying, but they meant this as something which would achieve peace. They neither sought nor achieved any territorial expansion.

              While Stalin, of course, was just as aggression minded as Hitler was and the events that followed prove it. And to your question what the USSR’s options were there may be many answers. But it was not a legitimate and lawful response to Munich to occupy and annex three independent nations and large portions of two more, followed by killing or imprisoning hundreds of thousand of local Balts, Ukrainians, Jews, Poles and others. Or to attack small defenseless Finland just a few months later. You don’t think that Finland, Estonia, Latvia, etc., attacked themselves, do you? The von Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement was a purely aggressive act designed to partition Eastern Europe.

              And you made me laugh by pointing out that there were no Nazi societies in the U.S.S.R., as if it were possible to have any political non-Communist groups in the Stalin’s country. Which, however, did not prevent formation of Russian Waffen SS formations later on.

              Nobody denies that once the two tyrants started fighting each other, the Red Army exhibit superb qualities and made great contributions toward defeating Hitler. So, I just don’t understand your anti-American and anti-Western ravings and rantings, or your denial of contributions made by Americans, British and others.

              I don’t know if you are a non-repentant Communist or nostalgic about the Soviet times, or just mentally disturbed. In any case your attempts to whitewash and justify Soviet actions and atrocities are pathetic.

              • It’s a great honor to be called mentally disturbed by such a bold and sober person like you.
                “They neither sought nor achieved any territorial expansion.” They knowingly threw Chekhoslovakia into the beast’s jaws. Now u can call them naive! Come on! They wanted the beast to go East. To wipe the Red threat out of the map and finish what was not achieved by the 18 “civilized” armies intervention in the 20s. Btw speaking of territorial integrity what the fck did Americans do in Vladivostok and British in Arkhangelsk in 1918-1919? Were they protecting Russia from mentally disturbed communists? Were Russians invading California to bring it back to Mexico and had to be punished for that? No? Then why are u so outraged about the Soviet Russia getting back its territories (Poland, Finland, Baltic “states” were all part of Russia for hundreds of years until the 1917 Revolution)?
                In reality the Nazis had their foot on the Baltic “state” long before the Red Army had to step in. Some of the puppet “independent” regimes there paid allegiance to Hitler no later than 1938, some were on the verge of the right wing coup-d’e-tats. Poland encouraged by Britain was also in some very friendly relations with the Nazis.
                Finland’s Mannerheim was a distinguished Nazi himself (and a former Tzarist officer), he later took part in the bloody siege of Leningrad.
                So you’d probably want Soviets to stand aside and look at this stuff calmly? When the Abwer trained Trozkiests are waging guerrilla war against USSR from those “independent” territories? Ever heard about shootings and bombs exploding in Leningrad’s theaters and museums?
                So as a westerner and a stubborn “free market” addict you would probably like more commie’s blood to spill. They were not as weak then as they are today.
                In reality the Baltic states had their own communist parties, and those parties in power OFFICIALLY CALLED for the Red Army to get in and defend them from the Nazi takeover. Exactly like the government of Panama called T.Roosevelt for support.

                As for what your Stupidity calls “nostalgia”… You know the Great Depression 2.0 hasn’t even began. The 21% of unemployed US population is a great audience to talk about the benefits of capitalism. Don’t waste your precious Wall St time on me.

                • So, according to you, Poland, Latvia etc. don’t have a right to have independent nations and therefore it was OK for Stalin to invade them because the Tsars did the same earlier? Is that it? Or are you saying that the Baltic countries joined the U.S.S.R. voluntarily? Which one is it?

                  Do you want the restoration of the U.S.S.R.? It’s a rhetorical question and you need not answer. Your intentions are quite clear.

                  The unemployment in the United States is indeed unacceptably high, but it is under 10 % not 21 %.

                  • OMG.
                    I never said that the USSR had a right to invade anybody, because it didn’t invade. I just wanted to show you some flaws in your logic: you are extremely sensitive about Latvia (a part of Russia since 16th century) but usually get offended when asked about independence of Texas or California. Do they have a right to secede in case of another American revolution?
                    As for the unemployment thing you need to study more. There’re two types of it: official and hidden (people given up to look for jobs and are not included in the official surveys). Bloomberg estimates the latter at around 20-21%.
                    That final thing assures me that the USSR will finally be restored. Maybe not in Russia. But there’s no question it will be.

                    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                    The USSR didn’t invade Afghanistan? Not Hungary? Not Poland? It didn’t invade Poland and murder thousands of Polish officers in the Katyn forest, and blame it on the Nazis, one of the most dishonorable acts in the history of warfare?

                    Wow, that makes us feel much better. We had Russia so very wrong!!

                    • Hey you Western Mind! Why are you asking me questions while turning off the “reply” buttob? It’s sooo democratic you know:) No censorship you know:) As for the Molotov-Ribbentrop we’re talking about here the USSR didn’t invade Afghanistan like the US didn’t invade: Panama, Philippines, Cuba, Grenada… the list goes on and on. Do you really want me to continue?

                      As for Katyn, definitely it was the Nazi scheme with a plan to put the blame on Soviets in the propaganda war. The 1st mention about it was in the official Nazi newspaper. All victims were shot with german guns and corpses were packed so accurately that it completely excludes any chance of Soviet participation. Not our style you know:)

                      LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                      We offer you the courtesy, the privilege, not just of posting your “thoughts” on this blog but of advertising your own pathetic excuse for a blog, and you repay us by falsely accusing us of censorship and violating our comment rules by filling your “thoughts” with personal abuse.

                      We repay you in kind. All comments after this one have been permanently deleted. Continue as you are, you will lose your right to comment. Offend us further, and all previously published comments will be deleted. We own this blog, not you, troll.

                    • Actually retard, what you said was Then why are u so outraged about the Soviet Russia getting back its territories (Poland, Finland, Baltic “states” were all part of Russia for hundreds of years until the 1917 Revolution)? and what the British in Archangel and the US in Vladivostok were doing was supporting the internationally recognised government of Russia at the time, which for all its faults (and they were many) was vastly preferable to a government that made the Nazis look like amateurs in the job of mass killings.

                      Russia was and is an evil state.

                    • Well, I’ve heard everything. According to you, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia were not invaded by Stalin, I guess they just invaded themselves or something. They were not a part of the U.S.S.R. but independent countries between 1918 and 1940, and their statehood was universally recognized, including by the U.S.S.R.

                      And Stalin and NKVD had nothing to do with Katyn; those Polish officers must have committed a mass suicide. It cannot be Hitler, they were dead before Hitler attacked Russia. I cannot believe what I am reading.

                      Nothing matters to you, neither the admission by Messrs. Gorbachev and Yeltsin nor the acknowledgment of the fact even by your beloved Paramount Leader for Life nor the archival Russian documents which are now publicly available.

                      To me, denying the Stalin’s atrocity of Katyn is like denying the Holocaust; I am sure you also believe that the latter is the invention of Zionists.

                      You are definitely the most outspoken and unreformed Stalinist or neo-Stalinist who posts here. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you will be.

  5. Who is David Denby? Google the name and see for yourself.You are morally bankrupted to call me name. Your logic left alone.

  6. casasrasa,
    This is this pathological hatread of Poland so typical of Russia, I wonder why, perhaps Polish people are free and never accepted russian domination, while Russians a truly born slaves – that don’t deserv to be free, they don’t want to be free

    • Polish and Russian people are not enemies. Unlike Polish and Russian elites.

      • Good empire, wrote;

        Polish and Russian people are not enemies – it is really difficult to accept that notion – it is not that Polish people hate russians – Polish people have TOTAL CONTEMPT FOR EVERYTHING RUSSIAN. AND, BELIEVE ME, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE….

      • Funny, all the Poles I know hate Russia.

        • Strange Andrew, but all the Poles I know also hate Russia.

          In fact the Poles have a saying, which is “We have two mortal enemies, one from the west (i.e. Germany) and one from the east (i.e. Russia) with the one from the east being by far the worst!

    • Poliaks, unlike Russians, we always slaves of somebody, most recently of USA (BTW this also clearly follows from your nicknames).

      • Treat others like you want to be treated yourself.

      • casasrasa,
        when russkiy gryaz ever been free?? let me guess, casasrassa, during 500 years of mongol yoke when you pathetic russians were reduced to animals [check your slit eyes and mongol fold], you marched to gulags to total humilation, depravation, shouting za rodinu za stalina – YES THAT FREEDOM RUSSIAN STYLE. That’s why the West has TOTAL CONTEMPT FOR RUSSIA. By the way, you had a Polish tsarina Catherina the 1st born Marta Skowronska, illiterate peasant and a hooker who married your ‘greatest’ tsar Pietia vielykiy. You see the difference between great Polish nation and the asiatic russian hordes – the Polish illiterate peasant was good enough for your greatest tsar…….

        • mccusa, you are silly, let me state this once again. Marta Skawronska was Latvian from Daugavpils, not Polish.

          @You see the difference between great Polish nation and the asiatic russian hordes

          Your “great Polish nation” is a nation of historic slaves and wild tribes. They always will suck from the hands of their masters, now USA, before it was Russian Empire, Auistria, Germany. As Winston Churchill said, “Poland is a greedy hyena of Europe” and that says its all. Th rest is your delirium.

          As I already smentioned to you, here in the old Europe (in particular in Germany, my homeland), Poliaks and Polkas do very well their jobs of toilet cleaners, and sometimes they are gradually promoted to clean bathrooms. Hope the evolution will work for you, “great nation” of slaves.

  7. Did Hitler or savage uncivilized pagan barbarians in the kremlin Kill More Ukrainians in World War II?

    Both Hitler and the Kremlin saw the Ukrainian nation as an obstacle to their plans and goals. Hitler wanted Ukraine as German Lebensraum and the Kremlin feared that Ukrainian nationalism and an independent Ukraine would wreck the Soviet Russian Empire. Both were guilty of war crimes and genocide in Ukraine on such a massive scale that they are virtually unequaled in history. We are not speaking here of thousands, or tens of thousands, or even hundreds of tousands of victims of mass murder. We are talking of millions of Ukrainians killed by both Hitler and Stalin.

    The great puzzle is: Did Hitler or the Kremlin during WW II kill the most Ukrainians? Hitler’s crimes in Ukraine have been better documented and are better known. Stalin once said that history is written by the winners. As a victor, Stalin’s USSR was able to hide its genocide of Ukrainians. After the war Stalin said that 7 million Soviet citizens died but we know he was concealing the true higher figures. Nikita Krushchev in 1961 set the death toll in the USSR at 20 million and this seems to be a credible and accurate statistic. Recently Moscow has quoted figures of 25 and 27 million. These new figures are either sheer propaganda or are based on new information about Stalin’s genocide of Ukrainians and other Soviet citizens during the War.

    No documentary evidence exists of Hitler’s order to eliminate all Jews in Europe but we know this is true. Likewise, we have no Hitler order to annihilate the Ukrainians. But we do have the evidence:
    1) Millions of civilian victims perished which could not be “accidental”.
    2) Documentary evidence of the wholesale executions of Ukrainians.
    3) The order to execute up to 100 innocent Ukrainians for one German soldier shot by the partisans.
    4) The Ostarbeiter Ukrainian slaves were to be “worked to death” in Germany.
    5) Millions of prisoners of war were intentionally starved to death in concentration camps.
    6) Ukrainian cities were starved to death according to plan.
    7) Nazi leaders said that Ukraine as the Lebensraum of Nazi Germany would be colonized by German population and some Ukrainians would be used as slave labor. What about the other Ukrainians?
    8) As late as 1943 Hitler refused status to Ukraine and when Ukrainians offered to form an army against the USSR it had to be named Galicia Division until the very last few minutes of the war in 1945 when it was renamed the Ukrainian National Army.
    9) Ukraine’s disproportionate civilian losses compared to military also indicates a special Nazi German campaign.

    It would be naive to think that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi German government was not bent on destroying as many Ukrainian Untermensch as possible in view of the statements which prove it.

    For example, Reichmarshal Goering, who was next to Hitler in power said: “This year between twenty and thirty million persons will die [in Ukraine and] and Russia of hunger. Perhaps it is well that it should be so, for certain nations must be decimated.” — Hermann Goering, Nov. 24-27, 1941 (Dallin p. 123).

    Today all over independent Ukraine there are discoveries of mass murder graves in the suburbs of cities (such as Bykivna in Kiev), and near all the KGB (NKVD) secret police stations throughout Ukraine. The Ukrainian victims of the Kremlin’s Soviet Russia number in the millions. Many Ukrainians are also buried in the mass graves of Siberia. It is unknown how many of these Ukrainian victims of the Soviet system perished during the war years.

    • What a load of crap. Stalin’s collectivization happened in the 30s while Hitler’s atrocities occurred in the 40s. As for the victims you shouldn’t quote the CIA factbook. All these lies and fabrications are known to the world. Millions of people died of the Great Famine in the USSR. And the problem was not limited to Ukraine only. All over Russia and in Kazakhstan people were dying. But please note this was the time of the 1st Great Depression, and horrible things were happening all over the world (check veteran’s march on Washington for starters). As for the so called “victims” of the Soviet advance on Ukraine they were mostly Nazi collaborators like Bandera or Shukhevitch. Many of them were later employed by the CIA. Even after Yuschenko’s removal Ukraine is still under total American domination. So we may hear a lot more about the fabricated “Soviet holocaust”. But all that wouldn’t change the fact that the majority of Ukrainians fought on the Soviet side and it was the Ukrainian national Rybalko who eventually liberated Kiev and Lvov. I’m sure you’re going to stick with the lies that you just iterated. But before that give me a favor tell everybody WHY the US government decided to establish official relations with the USSR exactly when the presumed “holocaust” was on? Was that because the US businesses were selling equipment to the thriving new industrial centers of Soviet Ukraine like Harkov or Zaporoje? In case it wouldn’t be enough for you – watch this
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACmJcJsrRU (shot by the US military during the war)

      Meanwhile there was no question of Ukraine’s “independence” from Russia in the 1930s. First and foremost because historically these nations are so interlocked it’s absolutely appropriate to call them one.

      • Try going to western Ukraine (the half the Russians did not ethnicly cleanse) and say that laddie.

        As for “fabricated Soviet Holocaust”, no it was very real, just as the Soviet crimes against Poland were very real (as were those of Tsarist Russia), the orders to execute the Polish officers and civilians by the Soviet government have just recently been made public by the Russian government, so much for your “Nazi propaganda” theory.

        I think you need to learn to read properly.

        MOSCOW—Russia’s parliament accepted Soviet dictator Josef Stalin’s responsibility for the 1940 Katyn Forest massacre of 22,000 Polish prisoners—a declaration that Poland’s leaders welcomed, cautiously, as a step toward justice for an atrocity that still poisons the two countries’ relations.

        After a two-hour debate heated by Communist objections, parliament acknowledged Friday that archives first unveiled in the early 1990s “show that the Katyn crime was carried out on the direct orders of Stalin and other Soviet leaders.

        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704008704575638990227283162.html

        The document conceded that history could no longer be avoided and that it was time to lay waste to the myths spread by “official Soviet propaganda.”

        “Materials that for many years have been kept in secret archives and have now been published not only show the extent of this terrible tragedy but show that that Katyn crime was carried out on the direct orders of Stalin and other Soviet leaders,” the declaration said.

        http://www.canada.com/news/Russia+admits+Stalin+ordered+Katyn+massacre+Poles/3887985/story.html

        • Look what I found Andrew. An official letter from the chief of the NKVD regarding the Katyn affair. Unfortunately I cannot read it, but the web site provides a translation

          I am not really posting this to convince our Stalinist constituency here; they will, of course, say that it was a Zionist forgery facilitated by the CIA. But to me, it’s a striking document

          • Yes indeed RV.

            Of course, the brain dead Sovoks like Casasa, GE, and Viagra boy will never understand the truth about their state.

  8. One of the less well-known genocides of the period is that of the Dalmatian and Istrian Italians. Dalmatia and Istria had been culturally and politically part of Italy since the fall of the Roman Empire; but after the war of 1859, the Austrian Empire started a strongly Slavicizing policy, in those provinces and those alone – at the same time as the Slavs of Carniola (Slovenia) and Croatia were oppressed by Austrian Germans and Hungarians. As a result, it got the worst of both worlds, being hated by both Italy and the South Slavs (Yugoslavs). When the Italian Army destroyed it in 1918, there was a rush between Italy and Serbia to seize the Adriatic coast, which Serbia won thanks largely to the misguided support of that wretched man Woodrow Wilson – the worst President in American history. Italy got the consolation prize of Istria, the ports of Trieste and Fiume (Rijeka), and, significantly, the historical capital of Dalmatia, Zara (Zadar), whose Italian nationality nobody could deny. End of the introduction.

    By April 1945, thanks mainly to English idiocy and complicity – the English secret services, which managed contacts with the Yugoslav resistance, were infiltrated from top to bottom by Communist agents, two of whom were Kim Philby and Anthony Blunt – the Communists of Tito had triumphed over both the Axis invaders (including the Italians) and their domestic opponents, and turned Yugoslavia into the umpteenth Communist hellhole. They decided to solve the Italian problem, which could easily be seen in Marxist terms, since, quite simply, the Italians were the educated and wealthy layers of society from Trieste to Bar (Antivari); historically, any Slav who made good took an Italian name and learned Italian. Well, nobody will ever know how many people died, but an indication may be got from proven fact. Tito’s thugs took over the city of Trieste for just one month between April and May, 1945. Afterwards, they had to return most of it to Italy. Trieste had, at the time, 200,000 inhabitants. In less than a month, 5,000 were slaughtered. That adds up to 2.5% of the total population. You work it out. And yet the disgusting Communist propaganda had so penetrated even into Italy itself, that when the hundreds of thousands of refugees who managed to escape Tito’s machine guns, torture chambers and caves (the mountain caves of Istria and Dalmatia were favoured places to dispose of industrial amounts of corpses), their own fellow-countrymen in places like Bologna booed them and spat at them under the impression that they were all “fascists”, and many ended up hiding their origins and pretending they were something else than they were. Thus Communism not only slaughtered an ancient and historically important minority, but even made Italians accomplices in the ruin of their fellow Italians. If you did not believe in Hell, I cannot imagine how you would cope with knowing things like that.

  9. I think you are wrong. I am assured.

  10. Russia to keep key Katyn case files classified

    The Russian Supreme Court did not disclose the legal grounds for its rejection of the appeal by rights group Memorial.

    Read more:

    http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/95699/#ixzz1CBPmyEmc

  11. “death camps in Poland ” are You stupid or what? explain me sth, is it too hard to do some research? what Poland? in 1940-1945 there was no Poland on Europes maps. Are You just a stupid ignorant or wise instigator payed by filthy jews to make Poland a sinner of german acts?

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