Beware of Smiling Russian Bears!

Janusz Onyszkiewicz, a former Polish defense minister and chairman of the Council of Euro-Atlantic Association, writing in the Moscow Times:

Remember the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, aimed at enshrining “commonly shared values” between Russia and the European Community? Signed in 1994, during the hopeful early days of Russia’s first-ever democracy, the agreement was bolstered in 1999 by the creation of the European Union’s Common Security Defense Policy.

Both sides often refer to this desire to forge closer relations as a “strategic partnership.” But as French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel meet President Dmitry Medvedev in Deauville, France, on Tuesday, it would be wise to recognize that the Kremlin seems to be changing the terms of this nascent relationship.

In the wake of Russia’s apparent departure from democratization during Vladimir Putin’s presidency and of the wars in Chechnya and Georgia, the European Union has adopted increasingly cautious language, sounding less optimistic about the prospects of a real partnership.

Thus, the European Security Strategy, adopted in 2004, says only the following: “We should continue to work for closer relations with Russia, a major factor in our security and prosperity. Respect for common values will reinforce progress towards a strategic partnership.”

Russia’s August 2008 invasion of Georgia produced a sterner variation: “No strategic partnership is possible if the values of democracy, respect for human rights, and the rule of law are not fully shared and respected.”

Russians, meanwhile, are struggling to reconcile their disparate views on Europe. Some profess to be “sick and tired of dealing with Brussels bureaucrats.” As Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of the State Duma’s International Affairs Committee, put it, “In Germany, Italy, France, we can achieve much more.”

Kosachev and others do not believe that the EU is committed to serious talks on hard security. This is a Russian imperative — and with good reason. How to deal with Russia on security issues — particularly on energy security — is one of the most divisive issues facing the EU. Despite their commitment to speak to Russia with one voice, various EU countries negotiate with Russia bilaterally whenever possible (especially over lucrative business contracts), congregating under the EU umbrella only when necessary. That gives Russia great scope to play one country against another.

Russia, meanwhile, harbors deep disappointment with the West for its actions after communism’s collapse. During the era of Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, it was assumed that the West would stick to the essence of its Cold War containment policies. Russians expected that once their country was seen to be no longer confrontational and expansionist, it would be treated as a legitimate partner, not as a defeated enemy. It would retain its status alongside the United States on the world stage, its territorial integrity would be unquestioned, and it would be left to manage its domestic affairs without outside interference or criticism.

Growing resentment toward the West has reinforced the Kremlin’s enduring penchant for the concepts of great global powers and spheres of influence, as well as the flawed belief that international relations is a zero-sum game in which others’ gain is Russia’s loss. Thus, Moscow cannot accept that more robust multilateral institutions, confidence, cooperation and interdependence could assure international security. On the contrary, Russia’s loss of superpower status is completely unacceptable.

Economic growth during the Putin years was combined with the defeat of Georgia, both of which were regarded in Russia as the beginning of a great political comeback. These two successes provided the confidence needed to try to remodel the trans-Atlantic security architecture. Medvedev’s proposed trans-Atlantic security treaty would enshrine the principle of avoiding external force to resolve national disputes, which would rule out international intervention in the conflicts affecting the North Caucasus, including Chechnya.

The status quo would be reinforced further by the principle that no country may increase its security to the detriment of another. But what remains unclear is who decides what is detrimental. Worse, the freedom to join military treaties, stipulated in the Helsinki Accords of 1975 and in other major international agreements like the Charter of Paris for a New Europe or the Charter for European Security, is ominously omitted. The expansion of military alliances, such as NATO, would be declared a threatening measure.

Europe should react to this Russian proposal. It should first acknowledge that Russia has a critical role to play in trans-Atlantic security and that it should be treated not only with caution, but also with respect. At the same time, a range of institutions already deals with the issue: the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the NATO-Russia Council and the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council, to name only a few. These existing institutions might need to be reinvigorated and fortified, but there is no need for more of them.

Second, the principle of the indivisibility of European and U.S. security, so fundamental during the Cold War, remains valid. Security initiatives should therefore first be discussed bilaterally within the NATO-EU framework. Only then should a common position be presented at the OSCE. Speaking to Russia with one voice is absolutely essential.

Third, the idea implicit in Medvedev’s plan — that Russia should have veto power over all security-related decisions of NATO or the EU — must be rejected. Given that Russia’s own new military doctrine presents NATO as the country’s top potential danger, its leaders can logically claim that NATO enlargement undermines Russian security.

Russia should nonetheless be consulted on all major security issues. NATO-Russia consultation during the drafting of the latest NATO Strategic Concept is a good example — an approach that Russia itself rejected before adopting its new military doctrine. Consultations on Medvedev’s security plan should also include other former Soviet-bloc countries, such as Ukraine.

The best way to proceed on the Medvedev plan would be an OSCE declaration similar to the one adopted in Istanbul in 1999 — that is, a political resolution, not a legally binding treaty.

According Russia more formal recognition as a great power might help EU and U.S. efforts to engage its leaders in a serious security dialogue. But no treaty should be signed as long as the sincerity of Russia’s commitment to the norms of international behavior remains in doubt.

42 responses to “Beware of Smiling Russian Bears!

  1. I guess there’s no common sence to talk to American vassals in EU on security measures. Strictly speaking most of them are nations occupied by the US. Kosachev is absolutely right in that respect. The best advice to Medvedev to secure peace and stability in EU would be to set the Russian nuclear forces on automatic trigger targeting the US territory, the dog not its EU wagging tail.

  2. rts:

    Why do you think your nuclear weapons will even work?? FSB grand theft negatively effects the military as well as the people. No part of Russia is immune .

  3. Sorry RTS, the US does not oppress its allies, it is Russians who are so universally loathed in Europe that they could only maintain the Warsaw pact by invading countries who refused to toe the line and instituting a nearly 50 year reign of terror.

    EU states can choose to agree or disagree with the US, such as over the invasion of Iraq, without fear the US will overthrow their government.

    Meanwhile, the Russian fascists try to undermine or overthrow governments simply for those governments attempts to persue their own national interests rather than those of Russia.

    People in the future will wonder how we failed to excise the cancer that is the Russian state.

  4. @in 1994, during the hopeful early days of Russia’s first-ever democracy

    More like during the early days after the end of Russia’s second-ever democracy.

    (First: February-November 1917, second: 1991-1993.)

    • Andrew-Robert. Now Andrew again?

        • Manfred Steifschwanz

          Pas d’Andrew en vue; alors il vous faudra écouter de nouveau au vieil ivrogne connu comme Manfred Steifschwanz — ça devrait vous plaire énormement, n’est-ce pas?

          Andrew replied to rts above to the effect that

          >> Sorry RTS, the US does not oppress its allies >>

          In one sense, Andrew is correct for a change: Thanks to US global plunder, Western Europe’s living standards have increased immensely. Britain, Germany, the Nordic countries etc. have all been transformed into parasitic, mall economies in accordance with the US template. As before, it’s the Third World that ultimately foots the bill. The main danger to Western imperialism is the prospect of a resurgent Russia and the world’s industrial Chinese powerhouse cracking down on the unimpeded flow of the world’s natural resources to the West, this not just to Russian and Chinese advantage but to the world’s downtrodden peoples’ advantage as well.

          • The newest ruling in Russians sharing their “advantage” with “the world’s downtrodden peoples” while rescuing them from “US global plunder”:

            European Court of Human Rights Finds Russia Responsible for the Torture of a Pensioner in Chechnya

            Thursday, October 7, 2010

            The European Court of Human Rights has found Russia responsible for the torture of a Chechen pensioner who was detained by Russian troops in 2000, Russian Justice Initiative and the Committee Against Torture reported today.

            The applicant in Sadykov v. Russia (no. 41840/02) is Mr. Alaudin Sadykov, a school teacher by profession. At the time of his detention he was working in a “burial group” for the Emergencies Ministry and was also fetching and distributing water and supplies for the residents of the Oktyabrsky District of Grozny. At around 10 a.m. on March 5, 2000 Alaudin was distributing drinking water to residents of his assigned district when a group of Russian servicemen in two UAZ vehicles pulled up. They asked Alaudin to get into their vehicle and give them directions. When the servicemen arrived at the location they were looking for, Alaudin asked to be let out; in response, they hit him and put a bag over his head. He was then taken to the Temporary Office of the Interior of the Oktyabrskiy District of Grozny.

            During Sadykov’s detention, which lasted a little less than three months, the officers forced him to chew and swallow his own hair, severely burned the palm of his right hand, broke his nose and ribs, kicked out several of his teeth, and finally, cut off his left ear. The Court described this last action as a “horrid act of violence” and found it “shocking” that such an act was committed by a police officer who was supposed to be protecting civilians.

            Alaudin also had over three million rubles’ worth of property stolen and looted from his house during his detention.

            In 2002 Alaudin with the assistance of the Russian Justice Initiative brought his case to the European Court of Human Rights, which declared the application admissible in 2009.

            A criminal case was opened into the applicant’s ill-treatment and the theft of his property by the Prosecutor’s office. After five years of investigation with no results Alaudin contacted a regional office of the Committee Against Torture in Nizhny Novgorod. The organization’s lawyers were able to obtain a significant portion of the case file which showed that the official investigation had been suspended multiple times with no justification despite the fact that the violations were obvious and the identities of the officials involved had been established.

            In its judgment the European Court voiced sharp criticism of the ineffectiveness of the investigation, pointing to “remarkable shortcomings” in the course of the investigation which it deemed “absurd” and which highlighted a severe lack of professionalism and the unwillingness of the authorities to bring the perpetrators to justice.


            • Some details of “Russian advantage” in relation to “downtrotten peoples” in this particular case:

              13. At the Oktyabrskiy VOVD the officers intimidated and ill-treated the applicant for several hours. In particular, they severely beat him, cut his hair and forced him to chew and swallow it, pressed a red-hot nail into his hands, forehead, nostrils and tongue and carved a derogatory word “Chichik” on his forehead with a nail or knife.

              14. The officers also questioned the applicant, but made no written record of the interrogation. They asked the applicant where he had fought as a rebel fighter and why there was a list of names in his pocket. The applicant replied that he was a teacher, had never fought and that the list included the residents of the Oktyabrskiy District of Grozny to whom he distributed water. It appears that the officers did not believe him. They told him that he would not leave the premises of the Oktyabrskiy VOVD alive.

              15. The officers then took the applicant down to a basement, stood him against the wall and started shooting around him. They told him that he should “wait a little longer to die” and that they had not “[had] enough of mocking him yet” and took a break.

              16. Some time later they returned to the basement with several other officers and started “playing football” with the applicant. They spent about two hours knocking him off his feet, kicking him and throwing him onto the concrete floor. From time to time the applicant lost consciousness, but the officers brought him round. According to the applicant, he lost most of his teeth and his ribs, jaw, arm and leg were broken as a result of this treatment.


              29. On around 13 March 2000 an official from the Grozny prosecutor’s office (прокуратура г. Грозного), Mr L., visited the applicant and warned him not to disclose the fact that he had lost his ear in detention. Instead, the applicant was told to state that his ear had been cut off by rebel fighters.

              30. On around 16 March 2000 a medical officer, whose first name was Gennadiy, visited the applicant. He put some ointment on the applicant’s ear wound, but did not bandage it. Nether did he examine the applicant or treat his other injuries. According to the applicant, he was attended by medical officers on several occasions while in detention, but never underwent a medical examination or received proper treatment for his ear.

              31. On around 19 March 2000 the applicant was transferred to the basement of another building of the Oktyabrskiy VOVD, where he was kept until his release on 24 May 2000.

              32. The basement was divided into two rooms. One of them, measuring approximately 48 square metres (8 m x 6 m), was used as a torture chamber and contained various instruments, including an axe, a hammer, a sledgehammer, a shovel and scissors. According to the applicant, he was ordered to clean the room once and noticed bloodstains even on the ceiling which was 3m high.

              33. The other room, measuring approximately 9 square metres (3 m x 3 m), was a cell. During the applicant’s detention twelve to fifteen detainees were kept there. The applicant stated that on numerous occasions the detainees were taken to the adjacent room and tortured. He could hear them screaming. Sometimes the door between the two rooms was left open and the applicant could see his cellmates being severely ill-treated. They returned to the cell severely beaten, two of them had their fingers missing and another detainee was brought back unconscious.

              34. On several occasions the investigator interrogated the applicant about the object allegedly found in his house on 5 March 2000. The applicant was forced to sign a confession stating that the object in question belonged to him. The investigator also questioned the applicant about the activities of his neighbours. No transcript of those interrogations was ever made.


              90. According to the applicant, upon his return home on 24 May 2000 he saw that his dog had been shot, his house partly burnt and his property, comprising his personal belongings and those of his relatives, furniture, an audio system, a satellite dish, looted. Nothing of value remained in the house. The applicant’s two Subaru vehicles and his Oldsmobile car were missing. Later, he found out from his neighbours that while he had been in custody, masked men driving one of his Subaru cars, an Ural truck and an armoured personnel carrier had come to his house on numerous occasions and taken away his property. The men had warned the applicant’s neighbours to stay away from his house, saying that they had mined it.


          • Ah Manfred, like I said, you have been damaging your brains mate.

            Russian resources come from lands where the native population was eradicated by the usual genocidal actions of the Russian state.

            Russian state oppression in the worst in history, over 60,000,000 people murdered in 1917-1991.

            Of course queer folk like Manfred love the old USSR and its massive oppression and exploitation of the worlds poor, not to mention reeducation, labor, and death camps…..

            • Manfred Steifschwanz

              Andrew, cher pétit sot:

              60 million dead in a period of three quarters of a century is anything but impressive. It doesn’t help even to ascribe that number to your common bogeyman Joseph Stalin, thus shortening the time span to just 30 years. As I pointed out in another thread, 60 million is what Western imperialism kills by enforced sanctions and austerity programs in the Third World in less than a frigging decade. If you add to this the want-on death and destruction resulting from reckless, permanent US militarism, you should be able to realise how incredibly stupid you sound. Westerners in general and Anglo-Saxons in particular are just spouting worthless tripe learned by rote. There are NO people in this world who owe preposterous, self-opinioned Westerners an apology whatsoever, dolt.

              • As usual Manfred Softbrain offers not one shred of evidence for his claims.

                Interesting how the Vietnamese prefer the US to Russia including the government.

                Russians are hated pretty much anywhere they “helped” ie introduced repressive communist regimes that destroyed traditional cultures etc etc etc.

                Russians are far more preposterous, self opinionated, racist, despicable and hated that westerners.

                You of course forget to mention that westerners 100 times more in nation building, medical aid, food aid, educational aid etc than Russia or other neo-fasicts states do.

                • Manfred Steifschwanz

                  As regards the evidence, I feel disposed to refer to the blog’s splendid owner, albeit in a slightly different manner: What I say is true, because Kim Zigfeld has NOT agreed. Get it?

                  As usual, a USian opining on no matter what presupposes that since Yankistan is so great, any other opinions are illegitimate and/or irrelevant. That’s precisely the vile National Socialist mindset which Germany embraced for a brief period of 12 years odd but, as far as Yankistan is concerned, is built into its very foundations as a land-grabbing, genocidal Settler Reich of “Manifest Destiny”.

                  Speaking of Western “generosity”, it’s plain (for any non-Yank at least) to see that said generosity is, amusingly enough, not appreciated too much by its would-be beneficiaries. Care to guess what most people in the Global South think about “philanthropic societies” such as the IMF, the World Bank, CIA, and NATO? You had better not guess that, my love.

                • Andrew,

                  Why are you always try arguing with trolls/insane people? Seriously.

                  • Bobby, if the world around you looks psychotic, that’s the world’s guilt, for sure.

                  • Manfreds bester Freund aller Zeiten

                    If you ask me, my contention (for whatever it’s worth) is that Manfred is actually the best and brightest in the, shall we say, “happy crowd” hanging around here. Harsh and immensely humorous at the same time and also fluently in several languages at that! I really hope our cocky Steifschwanz stays with us for a while; he hasn’t posted anything in a couple of days which makes me feel a little uneasy…

  5. Ron | October 23, 2010 at 2:58 pm | Reply
    Why do you think your nuclear weapons will even work?? FSB grand theft negatively effects the military as well as the people. No part of Russia is immune.
    Hopefully you are 90% right. “God bless the USA” and save its people for the next 10%. You meant this???

  6. Will the U.S. Lose Europe to Russia?

    As I have said repeatedly, NATO is FINISHED. If European states like France and Germany aren’t willing to pull their weight in Afghanistan: against third world fighters. How on Earth can the US expect “old Europe” to muster its forces to confront a Resurgent Russia or a Rising China?
    NATO’s purpose was neatly summed by its first Secretary General Lord Ismay: “keep the American in, Germans down and Russians out”. The Communism is dead, the Soviet Union no longer exists, what’s the point of NATO?

    France and Germany already vetoed Ukraine and Georgia’s membership of NATO twice in 2008 in April at Bucharest and again at Brussels in December after Russia had invaded Georgia in August.

    Berlusconi not only was he best buddies with Dubya, he is also friendly with Vova too. He has unashamedly boasted of being Russia’s best friend and spokesman in Europe. Sarkozy not to be out done has sold 3 amphibious assault ships to Russia. Merkel despite her pro-US rhetoric has continued Schroeder’s flirtations with Russia.

    There is more chance of Russia joining the European Union, than Ukraine or old NATO ally Turkey. Contrary to what right wingers and pro-Israel sycophants; would have you believe. NATO’s fifth column and Trojan horses are: Germany, France and Italy.

    A new European Security Architecture needs to be constructed that reflects REALITY!

    1) Russo-German-French Axis
    2) US-UK-Eastern Europe-Baltic States Axis

  7. What about China-German-French Axis – Russia, of course will be under total control of China.

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      Dolt. Russia will be under total control by Kim, Robert, and Andrew. And so we’ll all be living happily ever after.

      • manfred Steifschweine wrote;
        Dolt. Russia will be under total control by Kim, Robert, and Andrew. And so we’ll all be living happily ever after.

        with your ‘linquistic’ talents it shouldn’t be difficult for you and th ereast of russia to learn chinese – it will be the mandarin, I gather, the language of your masters…

  8. Warrren | October 25, 2010 at 7:50 pm | Reply
    “A new European Security Architecture needs to be constructed that reflects REALITY!”

    1) Russo-German-French Axis
    2) US-UK-Eastern Europe-Baltic States Axis

    aaausa | October 26, 2010 at 1:01 pm | Reply
    “What about China-German-French Axis – Russia, of course will be under total control of China.”

    They will come and nuke them all axis in the name of democracy, freedom and God. You must know the real face of the Satanic nation – USA.

    President Truman described Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings as “the greatest thing in history of the humankind.”

    They say in Nazi Germany they loved to sing love songs.

    • @President Truman described Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings as “the greatest thing in history of the humankind.”

      Not “of of the humankind”, learn how to cite. It was indeed the greatest scientific programat the time, taht is before the Apollo program. Beating the German and Japanese nuclear programs with no sweat (thanks in part to the “absolute pacifist” Einstein), and the Russians too wouldn’t get it for many years if they didn’t just steal it.

      @P.S. They say in Nazi Germany they loved to sing love songs.

      In the Militarist Japan too (including in Hiroshima and Nagasaki), so what?

      • Manfred Steifschwanz

        As I pointed out before, the LR team inadvertently offers a hell of a lot more insight into Yankistani pathology than into Russia. It’s just not within a Yank’s mental capabilities to even try to understand anything sensible instead of the vile, violently insane US National Socialist drivel. To USians, trashing the planet and creating misery and despair for billions of people is all right — a fair tribute to God’s chosen country. Try to answer this one: Who will miss the USians?

          • Have had enough of him, Robert? Did you notice that almost every post of his includes these ridiculous references to the Nazis? Come to think of it, if you look at his name, it’s possible he or his relatives were members, so maybe he misses all those old good days of Adolf & Co.

            • Manfred Steifschwanz

              Guten Morgen ohne Sorgen! Habt ihr gut geschlafen? Wie gewöhnlich, mein Schwanz ist sehr steif und kampffähig…

              Dear phobes — unlike Hollywood, my references to National Socialism point out something which really DOES contribute to science and, hence, understanding:

              As a European colonial power, Germany was a late-comer. Consequently, it did NOT have to bother about ideological contortions, the latter being available in abundance from centuries of European oppression, killing, and looting overseas, duly corroborated by the ever-so-scientific community of its own making.

              Most notably, the US Settler Empire came in very handy as a credible precedent. It had all but exterminated the Natives very recently and gloated in its crimes in films, books, and newspapers promoted abroad, just as US imperialism continues to do today. Hitlerite Germany sought to re-invent the wheel, but the Slavic peoples wouldn’t have it. Sorry, phobes.

      • Bobby, it’s a cool thing that all the West hails Apollo over Vostok. Like claiming the man who invented a car was less significant than the man who invented car windscreen wipers…

  9. Schwanz la bite se prend pour un guardien de Gulag…

    Qu’il crève la gueule ouverte!

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      En Français, la transcription est “Goulag”. La lettre “o” s’associe avec celle qui suit: “u”. Ensemble, elles indiquent le même son que font les deux lettres “oo” en Anglais. Quant à “Poutine”, oublier ce pétit “o” devient assez amusant, n’est-ce pas? :-)

  10. Dickhead prove with every posts that nazi and communist
    are synonyms!!!

    The National-Socialist Ernst Roehm, who put Hitler in power,
    always bragged of being a Marxist-Leninist PLUS German Ultra Nationalist.

    Dickhead Schwanz is a National-Bolshevik…more nazi than Hitler.

    He will end up like Ernst Roehm, with a dozen bullets in his rotten guts!

    • You are quite right about him, Ming. His obsession with Nazis is quite obvious. I mean, every single damn post, day in and day out… I read somewhere that Hitler used to say that the best Nazis were former Commies, now we see it is true

  11. Russia did plenty of its own extermination of natives.

    The Circassian genocide springs to mind (the absolute worst genocide of the 19th century…), or the extermination of the Siberian tribes.

    The mass murder and deportations of Poles, Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Finns, Tartars, etc, all by “peace loving” Russia. The peace of the grave that is.

    Then there is the 20th & 21st century genocide against the Chechens, the ethnic cleansing of Georgians, that sort of thing.

    Really, you are an irrelevant, idiotic, and absolutely hypocritical moron.

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      >> Really, you are an irrelevant, idiotic, and absolutely hypocritical moron. >>

      Absolutely correct, mate! Why do you think I’m attracted to this blog? Extermination, however, is America’s way of doing business, not Russia’s. That’s indeed quite evident from what passes for “culture” and “entertainment” in the West, let alone US military spending. Why do the Yanks constantly whine about anti-Americanism, terrorists, rogue states etc. if Russia is all there is to it?

      • Really Manfred, if you don’t think that extermination is part of the Russian way of doing business, you need to open a history book or two, including recent historical events.

        Russia has a very long history of exterminating troublesome ethnicities and political and religious groups.

  12. Manfred Steifscheine,

    The most important thing is that russians will continue to exterminate its own people -up till know they are doing an excellent job – the combination of hunger, lack of medical help [we can easily called the russian doctors the witch doctors], total lack of hygene, contaminated russian samogon combined with the Afghan heroine is a winning combination.

    • Manfred Steifschwanz

      How reassuring, mon amour. And then what? In all likelihood, USians will then have to deal with the Chinese, the Moslems, Africa, and Latin America.

      Enjoy, silly Yank. May Kim Zigfeld be with you.

  13. Some lunatic , I believe it was that moscovite troll who calls himself ;
    Mannfred Schweinschwanz , bleats something about ” re-surging
    russia ” , there by implying that there was such a thing as ” surging
    russia “. Uh , when was that pray tell ? And what exactly were they
    “surging ” with ? Typical moscovite halucination of an moscovite
    troll , suffering from a typically ” russian ” inferiority complex ,
    who feels compeled to hide behind a german moniker . Does that imbecile really compare his backward , pathetic dung -heap of a
    country to China ? How ? In what category ? Does he really think that
    moscovy will actualy survive ? That Siberia will actually remain
    moscovite for much longer , when there is already a population of aproximately 25 million Chinese there already and the Chinese are already diverting Siberian rivers , without any consern about the
    moscovites whatsoever . With their problems of ; alcoholizm , aids
    epidemic , short life span of the population , extremely high heroin
    addiction , pervasive mental health illness , not to mention negative
    bith rate , and unproportional incresing birthrate of the moslims ,
    the moscovites will in the near future find themselves a moslem country . And where will ” holy russia ” be then ?

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