EDITORIAL
Say “NO”! to Sochi 2014
Abkhazia is a part of sovereign Georgian territory according to every country in the world except Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Nauru. Attending the 2014 Olympics under today’s circumstances would make all of us complicit in cementing in practice Russia’s changing European borders by force, even if we reject those changes in principle.
Those were the words of former U.S. ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker, one of the highest-ranking diplomats to have spoken out so far against the Sochi 2014 winter Olympiad in Russia. Currently the managing director of the Center on Transatlantic Relations at Johns Hopkins University and a senior adviser at the Atlantic Council of the United States, Volker clearly understands that “if the United States and Europe do nothing, we will surely face an untenable situation in 2014.”
At last, while there is still time, the world is turning against the Russian atrocity in Sochi!
Action must be taken now, decisive action that will clearly nullify any effort by Russia to use the Olympiad to justify its wanton aggression against Georgia and its nakedly illegal seizure of Georgian territory. If the world cannot muster such action, then all civilized nations must refuse to attend the Sochi games.
A concerted effort by the world’s democracies could easily make Russia rue the day it lobbied to win the Olympics. The international forum can be used to castigate and condemn Russian aggression in the Caucasus just as Volker advises, and let’s be perfectly clear: Any nation that attends the Sochi games without such action being already in place is complicit in Russian aggression and undermining European security.
La Russophobe 
I wonder what kind of a boycott you would organize if the games were to be held in the US in 2014 and the US was still occupying Iraq and Afghanistan?
The US is pulling out of Iraq. Is Russia pulling out of Abkhazia? We must have missed that. Along with your IQ.
The US went into Afghanistan with an international force and UN resolution behind it. Did Russia have that when it went into Ossetia? We must have missed it. As we missed your IQ.
Russia would be free, of course, to organize a boycott against the USA in that case. The problem would be, of course, that Russia doesn’t have any allies or even friends among civilized, powerful nations, NOT ONE OF WHICH has recognized Russian aggression in Georgia.
You have the mentality of a potato.
LR, you may spit and roar, but there will be NO boycott of the Sochi Games. Even the quoted by you Kurt Volker clearly mentions this in his article. Instead of this, he proposes quite unrealistic steps:
– First, we need to be clear that in today’s Europe, the change of borders by force will not be recognized. (It will be difficult to clear as you did the same with Serbia recently, ignoring the UN decisions. Can lead only to a laughter and Russians will lough at most.)
– Second, in parallel with a non-recognition policy, the United States and Europe should give a renewed push to the Geneva process of negotiations over Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
(They and Russia will just ignore your heroic push. There requirement is: all negotiations after recognizing their independence, as in the Kosovo case.)
– Third, efforts should be reenergized to resolve the region’s other major conflict: the Nagorno-Karabakh territory, which is disputed by Armenia and Azerbaijan. (How are you going to resolve this conflict? And Russia has a full veto here.)
And bla-bla-bla like this… Believe me, the presidents of Abhasia and South Ossetia will stand in between Putin and Obama at the opening ceremony of OG 2014, and Saakashvili will not be allowed even to come because of visa problems.
“The US is pulling out of Iraq. ”
First of all, US is not out of Iraq as of this minute, and only lunatics claim that they know the future.
Second, there are no plans to withdraw all US troops this year. The plan is for partial withdrawal by August 31, 2010:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/27/obama.troops/index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Obama said Friday he plans to withdraw most U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of August 2010. Between 35,000 to 50,000 troops will remain in Iraq, he said.
—————
Third, the Russian troops are in Abkhazia as peacekeepers, as agreed by both Abkhazia and Georgia:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D0%B8_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB_%D0%BE%D1%82_14_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%8F_1994_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0
Fourth, Eugene’s point is perfectly valid: given that USA, Britain and many other countries illegally attacked and occupied Iraq and still have troops in Iraq, it is the height of hypocrisy for US officials to complain about Russia hosting Winter Olympics.
@”the US is pulling out of Iraq.”
Do you have even the most elementary grasp of the goings-on of the world ? Have you bothered to maybe turn on a news channel or read a newspaper ? I understand that you probably don’t get our much, but still, you’d think you’d know that your coutnry of choice is illegaly occupying a nation that is incapable of resistance and milking it of its resources in defiance of the international community.
Oh well,
Here go the usual & daily & often crude and vulgar personal attacks on La Russophobe by the mindless Kremlin defenders, and America haters.
Folks! do you really think that intelligent readers of this site, respect all your RUBBISH?
Thank you, La Russophobe, for telling the truth, no matter how much IDIOTIC abuse these low-lifes heap on you.
And, cancel Sochi! Who needs it?…certainly not the poor locals in that area.
Henry de Montherlant wrote in 1963 (!) :
“A single nation that has succeeded in lowering the intelligence, the morality, the quality of the human race almost throughout the globe is a phenomenon never before experienced since the beginning of time. I accuse the United States of being in a constant state of crime against humanity.
Catholicism has made man stupid, but it has not degraded him; it has introduced as many good and beautiful things as bad things. The United States have simply degraded humanity. Catholicism has done less harm in two thousand years than the United States in two hundred.”
Eugene, sunshine, when God created Psalomschik, God didn’t intend that anyone would start arguing with this person. Psalomschik was created as a specimen of the ideal mind, ever clear and untouched by the corrupting influence of this world.
So don’t argue with this man. He is created for another purpose, an esthetical one.
No wonder you like Henry de Montherlant.
In 1912, he was expelled from the Sainte-Croix de Neuilly academy for a homosexual relationship with a fellow student.
In Le solstice de Juin (1941) he expressed his admiration for Wehrmacht and claimed that France had been justly defeated and conquered in 1940.
Montherlant died from a self-inflicted[5] gunshot wound to the head after swallowing a cyanide capsule in 1972.
PS I do not care what a lunatic said.
Try not to attack the messenger, and try to analyze the message.
I’m sure you could also classify the many gays in history who have been influential in the arts and sciences as “lunatic.”
Hi Eugene,
I see that you still like to twist words.
I never said he was a lunatic because he was gay.
He condoned the occupation and enslavement of his own country; and, lunatics commit suicide.
to ‘Eugene’:
‘Henry de Montherlant, in 1963 said……’
Wow! now we don’t even need the Bible anymore! We have found the source of all wisdom (according to Eugene!).
Who in the heck? is this neanderthal author, you so highly recommend to us?
Eugene! please lay off the vodka!
Ha! Ha!
Read the words and heed his message instead of being an infantile dolt.
The Bible?
“Lighthouses are more useful than churches” – Benjamin Franklin
“Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents…. Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?… The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning…. And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes… God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy (Incarnation of Christ) is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world… How has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed? ” – John Adams
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter…. We find in the writings of Jesus’s biographers a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticisms and fabrications… The hocus-pocus phantasm of a god like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs…. History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. .. His [Calvin’s] religion was demonism. … I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians… Every Christian sect gives a great handle to Atheism by their general dogma that, without a revelation, there would not be sufficient proof of the being of god… I am not afraid of the priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries, of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering, without being able to give me one moment of pain… The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight… A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution (University of Virginia).. My aim in that was, to justify the character of Jesus against the fictions of his pseudo-followers, which have exposed him to the inference of being an impostor… the follies, the falsehoods and the charlatanisms which his biographers father on him… The fumes of the most disordered imaginations were recorded in their religious code, as special communications of the Deity” – Thomas Jefferson
“The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity” — The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, October, 1831
CANCEL SOCHI! (dear international community, whoever and wherever you are).
Well, well, well…..
“Eugene”, “Dmitry”, ‘Voice of..”, and the rest of you America haters and plain old liars:
You Putler propagandists have given me a good morning laugh, with all your profound wisdom and personal attacks upon myself. Thanks!
I especially like, ‘so don’t argue with this man. He is created for another purpose, an esthetical one’ Ha! Ha!
Well, I guess I was ‘created’ to love truth, which you fellows don’t. Too bad for you and too bad for the Russia you claim to be defending.
And you never tell the truth about America either.
So, continue on here, with your delusions and distortions and exaggerations, with your sour theme song, ‘America stinks, Russia is wonderful!’
To me, you pathetic propagandists are the ‘dolts’.
But, yes, I will not lower myself to your level, and attempt here, to what-? Refute all your lies?
I can see, by your very words, folks, that you all ARE inferior to myself, and my country.
And, READ THE BIBLE! OR, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!
Because, truth, God’s Truth, the only thing that might save Russia, not all your cover-up excuses.
I am not the only one who sees through your mindless/baseless propaganda barrage.
So, talk amongst yourselves, I won’t dirty my hands, trying to play your silly childish game.
Sweet Psalm Singer, Daniel Psalomschick
Dear Psalomschick, the world needs more of you. Don’t stop.
VoR
You are disregarding the historical context and acting like this was written today. Nothing could be further from the truth. Regarding not establishing a religion, the intent was to keep any particular Protestant denomination from taking over like the Catholic Church did during their reign under the “holy” Roman Empire in Europe. That was the INTENT behind the amendment. Otherwise this WOULDN’T BE THE NEW WORLD!!!!!! It would remain in effect the Old world, being ruled over by religious leaders. And the first leader they had in mind to keep him out of their affairs was the Pope.
The tradition of being sworn in on a bible did carry cultural symbolism no? It was done because the Scottish enlightenment was directly tied to being literate (90% in the 17th century) and biblically versed. That’s a cultural phenomenon – that’s a fact. Men like Madison believed that the Christian belief system (10 commandments) was the overriding factor that would make the constitution work or not work based on obedience. No doubt, for THIS REASON Great Weight was attributed to the symbolic act of being sworn into office on a bible. And that tradition has been repeated ever since, regardless of how the nation has morphed into a multi-cultural experiment and the culture or tradition that began the nation is now being revised.
To imply that God wasn’t the ultimate authority of that culture back in that day is incorrect, to say the least, when you take into account the religious culture. You can understand and see that even if you’re not a believer like yourself. Lincoln himself being the epitome of this culture, not being part of any denomination he was more of a believer than the religious. His speeches and letters speak for themselves and need no interpretation. He understood war is a curse and that generation brought it upon itself. Read the 2nd inaugural speech again and again.
This generation does the same and thinks it can avoid a war because it’s clever or more “enlightened” than even Lincoln himself, who was used as a vehicle to teach the nation some great lessons, none of which the left likes to look at, let alone teach. You can deny it as much as you want but it still remains a fact. The homogenous culture before the introduction of the Irish in the 19th century was a Protestant Christian one. The swearing in on that bible, the inalienable rights endowed by the Creator, peaking with Lincoln’s speeches and thanksgiving proclamation was all done in a Christian culture or nation. Not anymore today, but back then it was. So I disagree with you on the paragraph above. Considering most graduates of Harvard and Yale which began as religious schools, today are ignorant of this history, makes it inevitable for us to repeat the same mistakes. For those who forget the past are destined to repeat it.
PS Benjamin Franklin also said, “God heals and the doctor takes the fees.”
“He is ill clothed that is bare of virtue.”
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
The area around Sochi was mostly Ukrainian untill the kremlin exterminated about 99% of the Ukrainians {PRONOUNCED GENOCIDE}.
I never laughed so much! Tell us pls what other areas were ukrainian!
Were the ancient Ukrs the direct descendants of ancient Greeks and Romans?
If you laughed because millions of Ukrainians were murdered by the kremlin – you must be an orphan from the insane asylem. {or KGB or NAZI}
Ukrainian settlement of Kuban first started in 1792 when the Black Sea Cossack Host was given the rights to these lands by the Empress Katherine II. According to the Ukaz of 30.6. and 1.7.1792 these lands were handed over to the Black Sea Cossacks “for eternity”.
For moscali “eternity” = Until we murder you and steal your land and property.
Why is the Ukrainian population in Kuban under 1% today?
Kuban cossacks were hardly Ukros, they were a mixture, and they had their own dialect, based on Russian rather than Ukrainian.
“Why is the Ukrainian population in Kuban under 1% today?”
Because: go home! Get’ from Russia!
When Zaporozhye and Kuban cossaks came into being, there was by far no idea of Ukraine and Ukrainians.
Dear Dimtry,
You are truly clueless!
The word ukraina is first recorded in the fifteenth-century Hypatian Codex of the twelfth and thirteenth-century Primary Chronicle, whose 1187 entry on the death of Prince Volodymyr of Pereyaslav says “The Ukraina groaned for him”, ѡ нем же Оукраина много постона (o nem že Ukraina mnogo postona).[1]
The term is also mentioned for the years 1189, 1213, 1280, and 1282 for various East Slavic lands (for example, Galician Ukrayina, etc),[
Why do I have to repeat it twice?
F*ck off.
The Holodomor affected almost all parts of interwar Soviet Ukraine, but it grew to massive proportions in the republic’s southern and eastern oblasts. It also occurred in the territories bordering on the Ukrainian SSR that were populated mostly by Ukrainians, such as the Kuban and the Don region. Only an insignificant part of the population—the privileged rural Communist functionaries, who were served by a special distribution system—did not experience hunger. Urban inhabitants and industrial regions suffered less, because they received food rations. But the peasants were forced to try to survive on various food surrogates. Consequently mass starvation and disease became rampant, and occurrences of cannibalism were reported. Whoever had the strength fled to the cities, to the industrial Donets Basin, or to Russia in search of food. Peasants who were caught were repressed or returned to their starving villages, where the vast majority perished alongside those who had been too weak or ill to attempt escape.
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?AddButton=pagesFAFamine6Genocideof1932hD73.htm
That the Holodomor was directed against the Ukrainians precisely as a nationality is also shown by the fact that it took place not only within the territory of the Ukrainian SSR, but also in the Volga region and North Caucasus, where at that time a majority of the population consisted of ethnic Ukrainians. Thus, according to the data of the 1926 census, 3,106,000 Ukrainians resided in the North Caucasus, of whom 62% of the population in the Kuban called themselves Ukrainians, while in some of its districts this indicator exceeded 80% and even 90%.
Ukrainians in Kuban in 1926 (apr. 66% of all population before they were exterminated by the HOLODOMOR – today there are less than 1%) Here is a map of the Ukrainians in the Kuban region in 1926:
(p178) – Because of the famine … “It was now possible to settle once and for all with the real and imaginary enemies and to exterminate them more systematically than before.”
(p183f) – Sanger of Moscow Daily News related how tens of thousands of Kuban Cossacks that revolted were deported in 1932, while those that remained starved to death in 1933.
– Witting Williams wrote that the Kuban Cossacks were being deliberately starved, such that whole communities were exterminated.
– Osservatore Romano (August 1934) quotes Stalin: “The Cossacks have a middle-class mentality. I have no doubt that they will take the first opportunity of rebelling against us. We must exterminate them as a class and a caste, and even their memory must be destroyed.”
– Moscow’s aim is clear: the present generation (based on nationhood, religion, family) is to be exterminated to clear the way for the conquest of the rising generation (unencumbered by God, nation or family).
Andrew // March 20, 2010 at 6:37 am
Actually, in 1917, 80% of the population of Sochi were ethnic Georgians. They were exterminated by the Bolsheviks.
LES // May 26, 2010 at 7:09 am
The area around Sochi was mostly Ukrainian untill the kremlin exterminated about 99% of the Ukrainians {PRONOUNCED GENOCIDE}.
———————-
So, was it mostly Georgian or mostly Ukrainian or both? And who exterminated whom in Sochi? Georgians or Ukrainians? Or was it a mutual genocide?
Poor Sochi Inhabitants… I’ve been there and they don’t even know they are all Georgian Ukrainians…
:D
It is quite amusing to see Andrew and LES fight it out for the title of the biggest liar. Sadly, the real natives of Sochi were Adygheans, who were ethnically cleansed out of Sochi by the Czars.
They are called Ubykhs, ethnically close to Adygheans, but not quite Adygheans – something in between Adygheans and ethnic Abkhaz.
They were not “ethnically cleansed”, they left for Turkey voluntarily, and are called Muhajirs (emigrants) in modern Turkey.
Same with Western Turkish muhajirs – Muslim emigrants from Balkans.
Ubykhs mostly left when the Caucasian war ended, in 1860ies, and only those Muslims nomads left, while Christians stayed, and settled Adyghes and Abkhaz muslims stayed in Russian empire too.
Откуда такие детальные знания, Дима?
Дела семейные. У меня есть родственники с Кавказа.
Both Andrew and LES are liars. Here is the ethnic makeup of the city of Sochi in 1900:
http://tms.subtropic.ru/RUS/SOCHI/PEOPLE/
Russian – 20 265 (61,4%)
Greeks – 5 583 (16,9%)
Circassians – 2052 (6,2%)
Armenians – 1,305 (4.0%)
Moldovans – 1,038 (3.1%)
Imeretians – 975 (3,0%)
Czechs – 826 (2,5%)
Poles – 333 (1,1%)
Turks – 254 (0,8%)
Estonians – 175 (0,5%)
Georgians – 52 (0,2%)
French – 19 (0,1%)
—————–
No Ukrainians at all. That is, whatever people with Ukrainian last names lived there in 1900, they all considered themselves regular Russians. This is natural, because there is less difference between Russians and Ukrainians than between Danes and Norwegians.
Oh. Ukrainians in 1900:D
Both authorities and people themselves called the land “Smaller Russia” then. The language was called “Smaller Russian”, and people – “Smaller Russians”respectively.
And yes, of course there wer neither Ukrainians or Georgians there in Sochi.
>> 1930’s In the 1930’s the authentic kobzar tradition of wandering musicians in Ukraine came to an end; there was also a wave of arrests of bandurists in the Kuban. Many of these arrested bandurists received relatively light sentences of 5-10 years camp detentions or exile, usually in Siberia. Also, most of the Ukrainian bandurists were killed!
The Kuban area also suffered HOLODOMOR because, in 1929, most of the area was Ukrainian. The so-called Russians who died in the Kuban and Lower Volga were almost entirely Ukrainians. Entire regions of Ukraine were depopulated and Ukrainians were replaced by Russians.
Here is a map of the Ukrainians in the Kuban region in 1926:
Throughout the 1930s Ukrainian bandurists were constantly being arrested and taken off for questioning which may have lasted some months. Many were constantly harassed. Whereas in the early 1930s those incriminated received relatively light sentences of 2-5 years the period starting with 1937-38 the sentences were often fatal and immediate – death by shooting.
In 1937-38 large numbers of bandurists were executed. Documents have survived of the many individual executions of bandurists and kobzars of this period. So far the documentation of 41 bandurists sentenced to be shot have been found with documents attesting to approximately 100 receiving sentences of between 10-17 years. Often those that were arrested were often tortured to obtain a confession. Sentences were pronounced by a Troika and were dealt out swiftly within hours or days of the hearing. The families of those that were executed were often told that the bandurist had been sent to a camp without the right to correspond.
Many Ukrainian bandurists and kobzars were persecuted by the authorities that controlled Ukraine at various times because of the association of the bandura to the Cossack past and aspects of Ukrainian history which the kobzars would glorify in their songs and epics.
Kobzars were usually blind musicians and poets. When the kremlin exterminated {PRONOUNCED – GENOCIDE} them, the kremlin was also destroying the culture, traditions, and history of the Ukrainian people.
It is hard to establish the exact number of bandurists who were persecuted in various ways. As more information has been coming to light, the number of musicians who were arrested, interned or executed has continued to rise. It is unmatched in any other folk music or bardic tradition in Europe.
>> 1937 The demise of the USSR and the opening of archives have shed light on this matter by revealing the results of the previously suppressed 1937 census. According to the 1937 census, the number of Ukrainians, within the USSR in 1937, decreased by 16%. Meanwhile, based on the 1939 census, the population of Russia increased by almost 30%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandura
Pandura
The pandura is an ancient string instrument from the Mediterranian basin.
@”Abkhazia is a part of sovereign Georgian territory according to every country in the world except Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Nauru. Attending the 2014 Olympics under today’s circumstances would make all of us complicit in cementing in practice Russia’s changing European borders by force, even if we reject those changes in principle.”
Let me get this straight, you are citing a quote where the US Ambassador to NATO decries changing European borders by force ? Are you really ? Is that really happening ? And if so, this is the very same US Ambassaor to NATO who oversaw the hacking up of Serbia and the release of KLA war criminals who cannabalized women and children for black-market organs ? I’m sorry if I fail to miss your glaring hypocrisy.
Alexei wrote;
@”Abkhazia is a part of sovereign Georgian territory according to every country in the world except Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Nauru. Attending the 2014 Olympics under today’s circumstances would make all of us complicit in cementing in practice Russia’s changing European borders by force, even if we reject those changes in principle.”
comments;
I heard that excellent joke from Poland that Nauaru got it slightly wrong and recognized independence of Tatarstan instead of parts of Georgia’s territories – Abkhazia and Osetia whoops!!
An excellent joke indeed! An excellent joke, I say. Haw, haw. You Sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Cheerio.
I heard another joke about the former Polish president bashing his own country about the recognition of Kosovo.
Oh. That was not a joke…
according to every country in the world except Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Nauru.
Oh. You forgot to mention, “and Abkhazia itself”.
Well, you don’t understand one very important difference.
Serbia was attacked, bombed and dismembered democratically.
Only done to let the people of Kosovo practice democracy in their new home without interference from the world-famous Serbian dictatorship.
On the contrary, Abkhazia was recognized by Russia in a most dictatorship-like way.
And this was done to deprave the people of Abkhazia of the exciting Georgian democracy, and to subdue this small freedom-loving neighbour of Russia.
See, it’s not hypocricy, it’s democracy.
Now that you see the difference I’m sure you’ll be proud to live on one planet with the US ambassador Dart Volker.
And, yes, Kosovars are grateful to the West:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236301/Bank-blasted-giving-Al-Qaeda-terrorist-100-mortgage.html
Democracy gives birth to more democracy.
Well, in the case of Former Yugoslavia, the Serbs were guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and this was recognised internationally (except in Russia of course).
However, in the case of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, it is the Abkhazians, Ossetians and Russians who are guilty of ethnic cleansing/genocide.
Exactly, Andrew, a genocide it was.
Well, look, after this genocidal genocide of Albanians in Kosovo, can you find a single Albanian there now? All brave Albanians henocidally cleansed from their historical motherland… As to the Serbs, 99% of population of Kosovo are Serbs now. Who can now tell this land was once Albanian? What can show better a genocide it was!
And Abkhazia – oh, are there any Georgians left there? Any Armenians? Any Greeks? No! No, no, and no again! All are Abkhazians, South and North, coast and mountains alike – everybody is Abkhaz, Apsua. Another clear example of genocide!
As to Georgia – well, here’s a democracy! You can see the number of representatives of ethnic minorities, e.g. Russians, Armenians, Abkhaz and Ossets has augmented 20-fold since the independence. New Armenian churches open every week! Look at those Osset-language schools! Those Abkhaz universities! That’s how a real democracy, free of genocidal ambition works!
Now, are you denying that the Georgian population was driven out of Abkhazia in a wave of ethnic cleansing and mass murder?
The city of Sokhumi was majority Georgian until 1993, an Georgians were the largest ethnic group in the province at 47%, while the Apsu were 17%.
This ethnic cleansing was quite well documented by the UN, the Council of Europe, Memorial, and HRW.
Now Georgians are only found in Gali, which really should be part of Mingrelia anyway, where they are subject to repression, no right to vote, no right to learn in their own language etc, etc, etc.
By the way Dmitry, there are Ossetian, Armenian, and Azeri schools in Georgia, as well as Russian schools, especially in Tbilisi, while Abhkazian (Apsu) is the second state language and has been since 1992.
ARMENIANS
Language: Armenian
There are 183 Armenian schools in Georgia. A Department of Armenian Language and Literature exists at the Pedagogical University and Tbilisi State University.
AZERBAIJANIS
Language: Azerbaijani belongs to Ogoz group of Turkic languages.
There are 159 Azerbaijani schools in Georgia. There are Azerbaijani kindergartens in almost every region where Azeris live.
RUSSIANS
Language: Russian
There are about 150 Russian schools. There are also Russian departments in schools; kindergartens, Russian language and literature departments at high schools, Russian departments in various universities in Tbilisi, Kutaisi, Batumi, Sukhumi, Tskhinvali etc. There are several Russian churches.
http://www.usefoundation.org/view/260
So, compare this to Russian education policy , which is to Russify ethnic minorities:
As of September 1 this year, it is no longer the “subjects of the Russian Federation” — or the so-called titular nationalities in Russia’s dozens of ethnic autonomies — who will decide whether the language, history, or culture of their nominally dominant non-Russian ethnic entities will be taught at state schools.
Instead, individual schools will decide. Or, in practice, the federal Ministry of Education and Science, whose writ runs in those schools. And the ministry has issued guidelines stipulating that no elements of the “national component” are to be taught on state time, as it were.
What this means for Russia’s 21 nominally autonomous republics and other ethnic minorities represented at other levels is difficult to overstate. Their struggle to retain their cultural and ethnic identities in today’s Russia is truly a desperate one.
In the Republic of Bashkortostan, a few thousand demonstrators took to the streets this week, while Tatarstan’s President Mintimer Shaimiyev has said the removal of the “ethnic component” from the educational curriculum is “unacceptable.”
http://www.rferl.org/content/Apparently_Russia_Needs_Just_One_National_Component/1614655.html
As for Serbian genocide in Bosnia, fact.
Recently the Serbian parliament recognised the Serbian led genocide in Bosnia, and issued a formal apology (seems that unlike their Russian “big brothers” they actually have a conscience), and ethnic cleansing by Serbs in Kosovo was also well documented, and this is what brought the axe down on their heads.
159 Azerbaijani schools
Updated (April 2004):
The Kvemo Kartli Region is populated mainly by Azerbaijanis. …no other programs either in Russian or in Azerbaijanian except Vestnik. The inhabitants appealed …to allocate some time for broadcasting in Azerbaijanian, but their application was rejected.
Updated (May 2007):
A new national system of examination, which came into force in 2005, … They face the dilemma – either to learn Georgian or to leave the country.
Sunshine, when was the original document prepared? 1989?
city of Sokhumi was majority Georgian until 1993
in 1917, 80% of the population of Sochi were ethnic Georgians
Georgians – 52 (0,2%)
ethnic cleansing by Serbs in Kosovo was also well documented, and this is what brought the axe down on their heads
Sunshine, may I refrain from further discussing your ideas on axes and genocides at this time?
No D-Tard, you may not.
For the demographics of Abkhazia:
1887 Census
Georgians = 6.0%(4,166)
Samurzakanians = 44.6% (30,640)
(Georgians + Samurzakanians = 50.6%)
Abkhazians = 41.1% (28,320)
Russians = 1.7% (1,216)
Armenians = 1.6%%(1,090)
Greeks = 3.1%(2,140)
Total = 68.773
1989 Census
Georgians = 45.7% (239,872)
Abkhaz = 17.8% (93,267)
Russians = 14.3% (74,913)
Armenians = 14.6%(76,541)
Greeks = 2.8%(14,664)
Total = 525,061
2003 Census
Georgians = 21.3%(45,953)
Abkhazians = 43.8%(94,606)
Russians = 10.8%(23,420)
Armenians = 20.8%(44,870)
Greeks = 0.7%(1,486)
Total = 215,972
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Abkhazia
By the way, the Samurzakanians were chiefly Georgians (Mingrelians):
The rate of intermarriages between the Georgians and Abkhaz was high that resulted in the mixed heritage of the district’s population and the introduction of the special category “Samurzakanians” in the 1897 Imperial Russian census. This group was made up chiefly by the Mingrelians with a minority of Abkhaz. 38% and 35% of the district’s population identified themselves as Mingrelian and Georgian respectively during the first Soviet census of 1926, with another 26% identifying themselves as Abkhaz
As for Sukhumi:
Beginning with the 1989 riots, Sukhumi was a centre of the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict, and the city was severely damaged during the 1992-1993 War. During the Abkhaz siege of Sukhumi (1992-1993), the city and its environs suffered almost daily air strikes and artillery shellings, with heavy civilian casualties.[12] On September 27, 1993 the battle for Sukhumi was concluded by a full-scale campaign of ethnic cleansing against its majority Georgian population (see Sukhumi Massacre), including members of the Abkhazian government (Zhiuli Shartava, Raul Eshba and others) and mayor of Sukhumi Guram Gabiskiria. Although the city has been relatively peaceful and partially rebuilt, it is still suffering the after-effects of the war, and it has not regained its earlier ethnic diversity. Its population in 2003 was 43,716, compared to about 120,000 in 1989.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhumi
In 1805, with Mingrelians acting as intermidiaries, Apsua princes of Samurzakan, Levan and Manuchar went into a protectorate of Russia as “Abkhaz princes, the sovereigns of Samurzakan”.
Georgia asked for Russian protectorate 5 years before.
King George of Georgia in on September, 7th, 1799 wrote in a address to his embassy to Russia:
“My kingdom and realm give immutably and in the Christian faith, and place it not under Protectorate of his Majesty the Emperor of Russia, but give it in full to his authority and in the charge of him, so that from now on, the Kingdom of Georgia will be within Russian Empire, with the same status as all other provinces of Russia.
Царство и владѣніе мое отдайте непреложно и по христіанской правдѣ и поставьте его не подъ покровительство Императорскаго Всероссійскаго престола, но отдайте въ полную его власть и на полное его попеченіе, такъ чтобы отнынѣ царство Грузинское было бы въ Имперіи Россійской на томъ же положеніи, какимъ пользуются прочія провинціи Россіи.
Alexandre A. Tsagareli, „Diplomas and other historical documents concerning Georgia“, SPb, 1898, Vol.II № 175, p. 181
Before you claim Tsagareli is another Russian spy, let me note he’s buried in Mtatsminda Pantheon – same as with Griboyedov despiced by the Georgia’s ruling party.
Yes, and what does that have to do with anything?
Georgia was several different princedoms/kingdoms at that time.
The Kingdom of Imereti (west Georgia) the Kindom of Kartli (east Georgia), the Principality of Abkhazia, the Principality of Samtskhe etc.
By the way, the Princes of Abkhazia were Georgians.
According to the Georgian chronicles, Queen Tamar granted the lordship over part of Abkhazia to the Georgian princely family of Shervashidze. According to traditional accounts, they were an offshoot of the Shirvanshahs (hence allegedly comes their dynastic name meaning “sons of Shirvanese” in Georgian). The ascendancy of this dynasty (later known also as Chachba by the Abkhaz form of their surname) in Abkhazia would last until the Russian annexation in the 1860s.
http://wapedia.mobi/en/History_of_Abkhazia
Can’t stay away from discussing, and write from your phone? Or just don’t have a bandwidth wide enough?:)
Just because you have no historical understanding of the Caucasus D-Tard, is no reason to continue to be an idiot.
But then again you are Russian….
I have no historical understanding of Caucasus.
Oh.
Me:
King George of Georgia in on September, 7th, 1799 wrote in a address to his embassy to Russia:
“My kingdom and realm give immutably and in the Christian faith, and place it not under Protectorate of his Majesty the Emperor of Russia, but give it in full to his authority and in the charge of him, so that from now on, the Kingdom of Georgia will be within Russian Empire, with the same status as all other provinces of Russia.”
Andrew:
Yes, and what does that have to do with anything?
Just because you have no historical understanding of the Caucasus D-Tard, is no reason to continue to be an idiot.
Me:
:D
And then democracy prevails.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/863620.stm
http://www.thelondondailynews.com/albanian-hire-london-%C2%A35000-p-2560.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/albanians-taking-over-london-vice-605315.html
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/12/uk-albanian-misunderstander-of-islam-gets-7-years-for-weapons-hizballah-bomb-making-manuals-suicide.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/focus-my-gun-drives-fear-into-people–once-you-got-money-and-a-gun-you-got-power-580639.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article458061.ece
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/01/29/securitas-heist-five-found-guilty-of-britain-s-biggest-robbery-115875-20302080/
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/10/world/fg-mafia10
And the last one, but not the least funny:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1921296.ece
And, ladies, here’s a comment of an Albanian, 23, who lived in UK for the last 5 years:
I’m from albania I have british now for 5 years when I com to this contri I was only 18 yeas old I did no’t know any think they told Me how to say and what to do my solicitor now i’m in big trubal no one can hellp they just want many the solicitor
What else can we say. NATO was right about bombing those people. I mean, Serbs.
Spreading, and getting closer to Sochi?
Bomb kills three in southern Russia
MOSCOW, May 26 (Reuters) –
At least three people were killed when a bomb exploded in the centre of the southern Russian city of Stavropol on Wednesday, May 26, RIA news agency reported.
Interfax news agency reported that another eight people had been wounded in the blast.
Kadyrov called for creating a special commission that will furnish a more accurate figure, meaning one that is lower than the FSB estimate of 400-500 fighters. Any attempt to come up with an accurate and up-to-date estimate is problematic, however, given that small groups of fighters can and do move easily from one North Caucasus republic to another, especially in summer when foliage provides ample cover.
http://www.rferl.org/content/Chechen_Leader_Challenges_FSB_Data_On_Insurgents/2052487.html
Ukraine’s first president recalls how his job was once to deny the Holodomor and dispels drought myth
In the chapter “Peredden” (The day before) of his autobiography, President Leonid Kravchuk recalls the shake-up that occurred in the Communist Party of Ukraine after Volodymyr Ivashko was elected leader and replaced Volodymyr Shcherbytsky in Sept. 1989. Seventeen years of zastoi-ful rule under Shcherbytsky – Leonid Brezhnev’s fellow Dnipropetrovsker – brought humanity many memorable moments including Shcherbytsky’s denial that a nuclear disaster had occurred at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant in April, 1986. The Communists were experts at denial and the disinformation campaign against the Holodomor spanned decades. Earlier in his career as a communist ideologist, Leonid Kravchuk was responsible for countering the Ukrainian Diaspora’s public education campaign of the 1980s, marking 50 years of the Soviet terror famine in 1983. That’s when Kravchuk, by his own words, first learned the truth of the matter:
“Thanks to the position of the new leader of the republican communist party, Ukraine saw its first book on the Holodomor. That was, without exaggeration, a bold move. I do not want to speak ill of Shcherbytsky but I could not imagine a similar publication appearing when he was first person of the republic. Ivashko instructed me to collect the necessary materials. I was already familiar with this bitter subject. In the early 1980s many publications began appearing in the Western press on the occasion of the fiftieth anniversary of one of the most horrific tragedies in the history of our people. A counter-propaganda machine was put into motion, and I was one of its “wheels.” It was then, in 1984 I believe, that I first had an opportunity to study a small selection of archival materials. What I read and saw astonished me. It was total terror and I constantly chased away the idea that these pitiful people were doomed to torture by design. That understanding came several years later.”
“When Ivashko instructed me to find materials for the future book, I do not think he could imagine the scope of this tragedy. He had perhaps heard something, but I think he believed that it was nothing but rumors. Volodymyr Antonovych probably thought the publication would dispel those rumors.”
“It soon became apparent that neither Ivashko nor I (already somewhat familiar with these materials) could grasp the entire scope of the evil. With an opportunity to study the materials more closely, I felt a second shock, far more powerful than the one experienced in 1984. The crime was so horrible and the Communist Party’s guilt so apparent, that I lost the ability to think about anything else. I had always enjoyed a strong sleep, even in hostile conditions. But now I first encountered insomnia: the faces of the children killed by famine stood before my eyes constantly. I began to feel remorseful as I realized that I belong to an organization that can justifiably be called criminal. At the same time I did not want to associate the monsters guilty of murdering millions of my countrymen with many of the honest and respectable communists whom I knew and worked with.”
“The selected materials and photographs (one and half thousand, I believe) were passed on to the first secretary. Ivashko telephoned me soon thereafter. His voice was trembling: ‘This can’t be so!’ He refused to believe and I understood why. He ordered a publication ban until such time that evidence was found that the famine was not artificial. Ivashko ordered me to see if there were droughts in Ukraine in those years. I sent a request to the republican Hydromedtsentr state hydrological center but they did not keep those kinds of records. I sent requests to appropriate services in Moscow and they provided very detailed information. It showed that rainfall levels for those years were not lower than acceptable norms. This was a very serious argument and Ivashko decided to raise the issue at a meeting of the politburo. The discussion was not easy, but thanks to the principled nature of the first secretary, the book’s publication was approved. Many were understandably displeased with the decision. However, the most terrifying photographs were not approved for print, and their number was reduced from 1,500 to around 350.”
Kravchuk, Leonid Mayemo te, shcho mayemo: spohady i rozdumy, Kyiv, 2002, Stolittya (392 p.) ISBN 966-95952-8-2 , pp. 44-46, English translation mine
Holodomor-denial on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_denial
Posted by Steve Bandera at 4:14 PM
http://kyivscoop.blogspot.com/2008/05/criminality-of-holodomor-denial.html
For all Russian speakers, a document worth reading:
Les , I laude you on a great and incisive source
of information as to the origins of the Kuban
Kray . You have shown a spectacular amount
of knowledge concerning this question . My
only concern however, is that it is truly like
casting pearls to the swine . Dimitry , Alexei ,
Gregor , Voice of … , and the like , have no use
for facts other then to twist them their own
way . For instance ; why is it that no one has
ever referred to Moscovy as Russia , before
the 18 th century , when Tsar Peter made the
moscovites shave their beards and tried to drag
that dirty , drunken rabble into Europe ?
Why do they keep refeering to Kyiv , as the
Mother of ” russian ” cities ? Why do they
even claim that they are Slavic , when indeed
they are not ? They still try , with utter
absurdity , to use the idiom ; elder brother ,
when it is Rus’-Ukraine , that christened them ,
given them their language and educated them .
There are many answers to these questioins ,
but the short of it is , that they , the moscovites ,
suffer from a tremendous inferiority complex
that paradoxially runs concurrently with an
unusualy high self esteem of everything that
is moscovite .
I admit , it is extremely hard to understand
these two opposing forces , but that is the
” beauty of the moscovite soul ” .
Until they find their OWN roots , and find their
OWN history , they will continue to steal from
others and to try and pass it as their own .
The future of Moscovy is dim indeed , their
government cares nothing for it’s people , there
is no real freedom , the concept of democracy
is unfamiliar to all but a few who have no power ,
the Caucasus is on fire , Siberia sooner rather
then later will split up and most of it will be
absorbed by China , 90 % of heroin from
Afganistan winds up in Moscovy , the aids
epidemic is out of control , alcoholism is rampant , and life expectancy is one of the
lowest in developed countries .
This situation is in no way condusive for
dreams of empires and superpowers . Moscovy ,
will self destruct , become a moslem state ,
or become a Chinese vassal .