EDITORIAL: What happened in the Skies above Smolensk

EDITORIAL

What happened in the Skies above Smolensk

The smirking Russophile rabble would like you to believe that when nearly 100 Polish citizens, including the country’s president, perished when their jet liner crashed at a military airfield outside the city of Smolensk, the Poles themselves were to blame.

You should tell that rabble to drop dead.

The only reason the President of Poland was on that plane is that, because of his harsh criticism of the Putin dictatorship, Vladimir Putin crudely refused to allow him to participate in the official commemoration of the Katyn atrocity committed by Russia during World War II, forcing the President to make a separate trip to Russia in order to do so.

And the only reason the crash occurred is that the crude, backwards, crumbling airport in Smolensk, like virtually every other such facility across the length and breadth of Russia, was not equipped to allow a plane to land by wire, was not equipped with staff who could speak English, and was so laughably incompetent that its advice could not be taken seriously by the Polish pilot.

It is, therefore, not inaccurate to say that Russia murdered the President of Poland, and no thinking person can deny that Russia was pleased when it learned he would not be able to call Russia to account for the Katyn massacre.

Russia will, of course, deny any culpability of any kind for this appalling loss of life, just as for decades it denied any culpability for the massacre in Katyn itself, even trying to blame that atrocity on the Germans.  Even now, Putin attempts to argue that Poles were guilty of war crimes against Russians in World War I, so it was “understandable” for Stalin to lash out against them in the next war.  Presumably, this also justified Russia’s annexation of Poland throughout the Cold War, its decades of brutal torture and abuse.

Given that Russia itself has been convicted many times of state-sponsored murder, kidnapping and torture in Chechnya, by Russia’s own twisted, insane “logic” any acts of terrorism that the Chechens can conceive are justified against Russia.  Yet, of course, when Chechens take those actions all Russians ever do is scream and wail as if they are utterly innocent victims and no claims of the Chechens could justify retaliation against them.

This is the childish Russian mind at is most embarrassingly hypocritical.  One standard for Russia, one for the rest of the world. A nation this unhinged cannot long survive.

233 responses to “EDITORIAL: What happened in the Skies above Smolensk

  1. Dude, there’s lots of things about Russia that aren’t exactly up to standard, but you seem to be taking things to a rather absurd extreme in this article.
    Ok Putin didn’t invite Kachinski to the Russian-Polish Katyn commemoration ceremony, but was he really supposed to, Putin is Russia’s prime minister so he invited his Polish counterpart, Tusk and everything went OK.
    I don’t see anything wrong with Putin’s suggestion that Stalin might have been settling scores with the Poles for some 30 thousand Russian/Soviet POW’s captured by the Polish troops after the Red Army’s botched attempt to take Warsaw in 1920 who later died in Polish captivity. I mean those POW’s did die in Poland, it’s a fact. Of course Putin’s theory that Stalin may have wanted to avenge those POW’s is pure speculation and a rather big stretch but still, after years of denial Putin did publicly admit that the Polish officers buried in the Katyn forest were executed by the Soviet NKVD. Somehow you manage to present even that as some sort of an evil ploy by Putin.
    Now as for the crash itself, the airstrip in Smolensk that the Polish plane was trying to land on when it crashed is a military airfield, and it does have equipment for instrument assisted landings, the only problem is that the equipment that the Russian air force uses is incompatible with the ILS used by commercial airlines.
    What’s so incompetent about the advice to divert that the air traffic controllers at Smolensk airport gave to the Polish plane. There was fog, the plane and the airfield had incompatible equipment so the air traffic controller knew they wouldn’t be able to guide it in properly so diverting to another airfield with better visibility conditions was the most logical/safest course of action, Minsk, Vityebsk, Moscow and Bryansk could all have been reached within minutes; in fact ironically the fog cleared a couple of hours after the flight, if they’d have diverted to Minsk, a mere two hours later they could have flown back to
    Smolensk, which would have taken them all of maybe 20 minutes. Anyway, the way things unfolded you can’t even accuse the Russian side of manslaughter through negligence. They did everything by the book. And you go and say ‘it wouldn’t be inaccurate to say that Russia murdered the Polish president’
    Like I said earlier there’s lots of things about Russia that deserve criticism but when you go making such totally insane suggestions all you do is lose credibility. Shame, really.
    Imho you could have talked about how Russia is so economically backward that a city of over three hundred thousand people, i.e. Smolensk, doesn’t even have a proper airport so that the only place the Polish plane could land was a now defunct military airbase, or something along those lines, rather than make completely outlandish accusations about how Russia can be considered to have murdered the Polish presidents simply on the basis of the fact that his pilot chose to land on a crappy airfield in thick fog.

    • @I don’t see anything wrong with Putin’s suggestion that Stalin might have been settling scores with the Poles for some 30 thousand Russian/Soviet POW’s captured by the Polish troops after the Red Army’s botched attempt to take Warsaw in 1920 who later died in Polish captivity. I mean those POW’s did die in Poland, it’s a fact.

      Three problems:

      1. Soviets killed tens of thousands of Polish POWs AND civilians in this war already.

      2. In 1938 they killed more than 100,000 Poles living in the Soviet Union. (Including even the entire leadership of the Polish Communist Party who have fled to Russia.)

      3. For Stalin, the Red Army POWs were “traitors” (see WWII, including his treatment of HIS OWN SON when the Germans captured him).

      4. Stalin didn’t need a reason to kill even his “friends”.

      • And by “killed” I mean murdered. Polish soldiers in 1920 were also routinely killed without being even taken prisoner (even entire military hospitals being burned along with patients and such). Often tortured to death. Especially by the Red Cossacks.

  2. It’s really, really offensive that you, simply disgreeing with our OPINION, claim we are somehow mistaken about FACTS. You ought to be ashamed of your pathetic diatribe.

    You don’t think Putin should have invited the Polish president to a commemoration of mass murder of Poles. You think it’s fine for Russia to retaliate against Poland. Fine. THAT IS JUST YOUR OPINION. We disgree. Your suggestion that you, an anonymous uncredentialed dimwit, must be right and therefore we must be crazed, is utterly ridiculous and offensive.

    You write: “Imho you could have talked about how Russia is so economically backward that a city of over three hundred thousand people, i.e. Smolensk, doesn’t even have a proper airport”

    That’s exactly what we DID say, you idiotic ape.

    We wrote:

    “And the only reason the crash occurred is that the crude, backwards, crumbling airport in Smolensk, like virtually every other such facility across the length and breadth of Russia, was not equipped to allow a plane to land by wire, was not equipped with staff who could speak English, and was so laughably incompetent that its advice could not be taken seriously by the Polish pilot.”

    D’oh! Talk about a loss of crediblity! You spent about FIVE SECONDS reading our post, publishing your comment SECONDS after we published it. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    If Barack Obama excluded Vladimir Putin from V-E celebrations, knowing Putin wanted to come, because Putin was a spy, Russians would not accept that Medvedev was allowed to come.

    Your comment is TOTALLY deviod of ANY source material to back up your claims, and adds ZERO value to our blog.

    Thanks for your lecture about credibilty, blogless, anonymous goon. Stuff it where the sun don’t shine. Your suggestion that you are our friend and support our blog is utter nonsense, and we don’t recall ANY efforts on your part to publicize our blog or advance our agenda. It offends our intelligence for you to suggest you have our best interests at heart, and makes you look like a total fool.

    • Why don’t wash your mouth, probably your American mouth, with some soap before you open it in the future?

      • igorfazlyev, and I read that when your idol Putin recently flew to and landed in Smolenst-North, all the necessary electronics were installed just for this trip (purely his benefit) to allow his plane to land in fog.

        Then when he and his entourage departed all of this electronic equipment was immediately dismantled and removed.

        What say you now?

        • Wow,

          Georg and all his aliases is back with a vengeance.

          • Listen imbecile, I am very intrigued by your initials, RTR! What do they stand for? I bet it’s “RuSSia’s Today Retard”. Unlike you I report under my real Christian name. I have no need to hide like a petty brain damaged jerk under made up initials – as you do.

            And another thing, RTR, me being Georg? Well that’s another one of your lies, to add to the myriads that you have already made up.

            Your usual lying will never work in your case, not ever, as the average blogger to LR happens to be a honest, decent and intelligent person who has much worthwhile information to contribute.

            So unlike you!

            Crawl back into that dung heap that you emerged out from. You belong there.

        • Putin flew in to Smolensk by helicopter both when he attended the Katyn commemoration with Tusk and later on the Saturday to visit the crash site, no extra equipment was installed at Smolensk North.

          • Igor:

            Never mind Bohdan. He is a Uke nationalist. Everything they say is a provocation.

            • RTR you are so pathetic, that I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry at your irresponsible Soviet communist ‘provocative’ remark.

              You don’t even know what the difference between truth and “a Uke nationalist. Everything they say is a provocation.” is!

              Besides why don’t you tell us what the average east German, Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Finn, Pole, Ukrainian, Georgian, Romanian, Hungarian, Czech, Slovakian, Slovenian, Croatian, Bulgarian, Russians and especially the Muslim countries etc. that experienced Soviet Russia think of your past Soviet Russia and now Putin’s current ‘paradise’ ???

  3. President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski, was sentenced to death by Kremlin, for the following crimes:
    for supporting Ukraine
    for supporting Georgia, especially arriving in Tbilisi after Russian invation of Georgia
    for being so courageously anti-Russian in the face of total surrender of the rest of Europe.

    It was just a delayed execution -Russian style.

    • I’d have thought a delayed execution Russian style would have involved polonium in one’s food followed by a slow death in a British hospital.
      Btw it doesn’t really take that much courage to be anti Russian these days, especially in Poland or Ukraine.

  4. Any one who belives the moskali are not
    guilty of an active part in the Plish disaster ,
    either does not know the moskali , or is an
    active supporter of theirs .
    To even imply that there was a communication
    problem because of language differences , is
    more than utter nonsense , since the Polish pilots
    and crew spoke perfect russian . If there was
    a communication problem , it had to be on the
    moscali part , either because of incompetence
    or through negligence , in either case making
    them absolutely culpable .
    The world of course cannot expect anything
    other than lies and denials from a nation , whose
    very existance is build on lies and deception
    and where the national way of life is lying and
    stealing .

    • Quit referring to us as Moskali. Would you like it if we called you “nemitiye khokhli?”

      • Dimwit,

        No one else but a furry eared maskal like you would call anyone such a stupid meaningless term.

        Maskali earned their reputation, now live with it. That is just what you are, Maskal. The shame is in your perception.

        I think that Putin is guilty, and I’m not even Polish. SOBAKI like yourself are perfectly capable of telling a plane to fly low into the trees.

        Directions coming from a tower that uses radar to direct traffic and angle of approach is Normal procedure if other equipment is not compatible.

        Stupid Savok you are for defending mangy incompetent vodka soaked, murdering Moscal bastards.

    • Well said Maksym, you are spot on!

  5. Francis Smyth-Beresford

    It seems odd that pilots who knew how to fly a plane in which all the dash instruments are identified and decremented in Russian would crash that plane because (according to you) they couldn’t talk with a competent English ATC.

    The NYT, not surprisingly, views it differently.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world/europe/12crash.html?scp=4&sq=Kaczynski%20smolensk&st=cse

  6. to larussophobe
    for one, I’m not anonymous, I actually posted using my wordpress.com account and I even have a blog, though I primarily post about IT.
    Like I said there are lots of things Russia can be bashed for, but why don’t you go back and re-read your own article, you state the airfield in Smolensk is crumbling and doesn’t have ILS, fine, those factors definitely contributed to the crash as did the fog, and what conclusion do you draw from those facts? Or what is the opinion you form based on those facts? That Russia ‘murdered’ the Polish president? Now in my book that’s not the reasoning of a sane person, rather that sounds more like a cross between paranoia and schizophrenia. The opinion you offer is not an opinion at all, it’s just craziness. And I’m totally entitled to have an opinion about this whether you like it or not.
    What source material do you want me to have included in my comment? All the facts are common knowledge I’m not disputing them, all I wanted to say is that the conclusions you draw from those facts are totally ludicrous.

    As for all that who should have invited who nonsense – I can’t speak for all Russians but I wouldn’t be bothered one bit if Obama didn’t invite Putin or even Medvedev to VE celebrations. No big deal. Plus in international relations, in case you don’t know, there’s such thing as protocol, if Obama invited Putin instead of Medvedev I personally would find that a bit strange, because far as I know, in international politics the unspoken rule is that prime ministers invite prime ministers and presidents invite presidents, so in this particular situation with Poland, if it had been Medvedev who organised the commemoration ceremony on Wednesday, then he should have invited the late Polish president and since it was Putin who went to Katyn then, it only made sense that he invited Tusk instead.
    Plus what’s the point of inviting someone who you know hates your guts and whose wet dream is to ‘call you to account’ for some fifty year old massacre, and you don’t even know what ‘calling to account’ entails in this particular case? Sure Putin is a spy and a bastard but a complete idiot he is not. He arranged a nice ceremony where he got a nice sound bite in which he both admitted Stalin’s crime and yet also mentioned sort of in passing that at one time the Poles had killed lots of Russians too, so we’re even Steven la de da, so what would have been the point of inviting Kachinski to this little managed PR event, if Putin knew the guy, peace be upon him, would in all probability have caused a scene and embarrassed everyone?

    I never said I supported your blog or anything of the sort, in fact I only found it today, found some interesting articles but this particular one about the crash in Smolensk is just totally out of control. You state you hope to record the fall of the neo-Soviet union, but with articles like this one you play into the hands of Putin and co, since when Russian person reads an article like this the siege mentality Putin and co has been hard at work to create in us over the past decade will only be made worse, why should Russia be striving to join the proverbial international community if it consists of nut cases like the authors of this article who seem to be hell-bent on blaming Russia for every bad thing that ever happens in the world and see Russian even conspiracies everywhere.

  7. Now just a few words about whether Putin and the Russian leadership might have been behind the crash.
    In theory, of course, one couldn’t put it past people who in all probability were behind the bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow and other cities in 1999, however, imho, the crash in Smolensk just looks too much like an accident, there was really very thick fog on the morning of that day, and not just over the airfield (which would have been too obvious), but over the whole city (I am the source on this one, I was there I saw it with my own eyes). Recently all the hits the Russian security services (FSB, GRU) have carried out have been rather clumsy jobs in which it was almost always obvious it was a hit, what with the blowing up of that Chechen guy in Saudi Arabia or someplace down there or that totally botched polonium execution of a former KGB agent in London. Sure the way the Polish plane flew into trees several hundred metres from the runway is grimly reminiscent of the scene in Die Hard II where the terrorists lower the ground level in the ILS by a couple hundred metres and bring a British airliner in for crashing, but I don’t think the obsolete equipment at Smolensk North is sophisticated enough to pull off a trick like that.
    Russia is in shambles and its airports and roads are doubly so, therefore it’s only natural to expect that when you travel here, especially by plane you run a higher risk of dying in an accident than in Europe or North America.

  8. Have you ever written a paragraph without telling a lie?

    1. No, the smirking Russophile rabble thinks that unfortunate circumstances were to blame. You know.. weather.. trees… stuff like that.

    2. Atrocity in World War 2, was committed by a country called “Soviet Union”. Soviet Union was at that point under a brutal rule of the Georgian native(s). Russia was just a part of Soviet Union and by no means should bear the brunt of blame for the massacre. Georgia was one that produced both Stalin and Beria. Blame them! By the way there are still monuments to Stalin and his wife in Georgia. When did you see monument to Stalin in Russia last time?

    3. I was under impression that the tree was the reason for the crash… well and fog….

    4. He already called for Russia to admit the blame for Katyn massacre.. you know, from Poland. Calling for someone to account for crimes they didn’t commit (once again georgians killing poles on russian territory?) doesn’t require you to stand where the killing took place… so umm yeah…

    5. OK, Poland was part of Russian Empire during World War 1 (dont confuse with modern Russia ok?), the crimes you mentioned happened long after World War 1 was OVER. Also, Russia under Yeltsin already admitted responsibility of Soviet Union (again, don’t confuse them with Russia) in Katyn massacre. So yeah… you are lying again…

    6. Russian geography is very confusing (I know, I know), however please look it up and try to learn the difference between Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia. Ok? I really was trying not to sound condescending, but seriously….

    7. Well.. Russians have survived for quite awhile.. but then again… can YOU write a single paragraph without lying before Russian childish state crumbles?

    • Geeze Gene, you really are a moron, though you sound like RTR so thats not surprising.

      When you said By the way there are still monuments to Stalin and his wife in Georgia. When did you see monument to Stalin in Russia last time? did you engage your pathetic brain first?

      Lets see, in Georgia there is only one statue of Stalin, in Gori, and it is around 60 years old, all others have been removed, and there is a lot of public pressure to remove this last statue too.

      In Russia there are lots of NEW monuments to Stalin, including an ode to him in the recently renovated Moscow metro:

      Re-Stalinization of a Moscow Subway Station

      MOSCOW — A central Moscow subway station reopened this week after a painstaking, yearlong restoration of its initial Stalin-era luster, complete with gilt-trimmed words of praise to the Soviet dictator spelled out around the vestibule’s rotunda that add new fuel to debate about his role in Russian history.

      That debate has simmered this summer, among politicians, historians, human rights activists and religious leaders, at dinner tables and in blogs, after a resolution passed in July by the parliamentary assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe equated Stalin with Hitler for regimes that “brought about genocide, violations of human rights and freedoms, war crimes and crimes against humanity.”

      World War II, called the Great Patriotic War here, is almost sacred to many Russians. They were offended by the resolution, and it was denounced by the government. The Moscow subway system, built under Stalin by some of the best Soviet artists and architects, is seen as one of his great achievements.

      One afternoon this week at the Kurskaya subway station, one of Moscow’s busiest, many commuters’ heads turned to catch both the grandness of the renovation and the words of the Soviet anthem as it was sung under Stalin when the station opened in 1950: “Stalin reared us — on loyalty to the people. He inspired us to labor and to heroism.”

      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/28/world/europe/28iht-moscow.html

      Stalin museum is ‘an insult to millions sent to death in Gulag’

      The imminent opening of a museum devoted to Josef Stalin has stirred outrage among relatives of the millions he persecuted and has prompted claims that Stalinism is on the march again.

      After a number of delays, a “Stalin museum” dedicated to the once venerated Father of the People is to be opened at the end of March in Volgograd, the Second World War “hero city” once known as Stalingrad.

      The project is being financed by local businessmen but will controversially enjoy pride of place in the official complex that commemorates the epic Second World War Battle of Stalingrad.

      The museum will display a writing set owned by the dictator, copies of his historic musings, a mock-up of his Kremlin office, a Madame Tussauds-style wax representation of him and medals, photographs and busts.

      Svetlana Argatseva, the museum’s curator, said she felt the project was justified. “In France, people regard Napoleon and indeed the rest of their history with respect. We need to look at our history in the same way.”

      Ironically, however, though the former dictator appears to be enjoying a mini-revival. Actors playing “Uncle Joe” are in serious demand as TV and theatrical productions about the Stalin era flourish and the modern-day Communist party says his crimes were “exaggerated”.

      The comeback of a man whose bloodied hands are often compared to Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong, has alarmed the more liberal wing of Russia’s political class. The Soviet Union’s last leader Mikhail Gorbachev has warned that neo-Stalinism is on the march again while Russia’s first post-Soviet President Boris Yeltsin has said he can’t understand why Stalin is still so popular.

      Between 30 and 40 per cent of poll respondents regularly rate Stalin’s achievements as “positive” and a survey last year named him the most revered Communist leader the USSR produced. Admirers cite his turning the Soviet Union into a superpower, the country’s defeat of fascism and the “order” he enforced. According to Mr Gorbachev, Russia is going through a dangerous period.

      “We can see what was seen in the 1930s even now,” he said earlier this week. “Portraits of Stalin and a renaissance of Stalinism can be observed in the mass media and in theatres. Some attempts are being made to preserve Stalinism and this is very serious.”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/stalin-museum-is-an-insult-to-millions-sent-to-death-in-gulag-466911.html

      As for “Georgians killing poles”, sorry moron, but Georgians suffered some of the most severe repressions of all of the Soviet republics under Stalin, a higher percentage of its population were sent to Gulags by Stalin than Russians were.

      Stalin was described by Lenin as “the Great Russian Chauvanist”, he was determined to smash Georgian culture and to Russify Georgians.

  9. The most telling fact is that the Russian first responders – instead of looking to assist survivors that might be wandering around the wreckage – took to shooting at them yelling “Get out of here you whores” – and then laughing.

    And were they warning shots?

    BTW, note around 45 seconds, there is a clear view of a very distant treeline once the camera pans away from the smoke.

    What dense fog?

    • Actually there is fog in the footage, granted it’s not dense enough to make a car drive into a lamp post but it’s pretty thick for a plane flying through the air at several hundred kph and trying to land.

    • Black, I simply cannot believe what you said about OMON? thugs shooting at survivors and calling them names! If what you say is true Russia is a certifiably barbarian nation without a doubt. Please tell me your making this up. I’m surprised this claim has received so little comment on here so far. Really

      • Corey,

        What are you talking about? Where is OMON in that home video? And where is anybody shooting at anybody? And where are the “survivors” in that video?

        Here for you is another copy of that video:

        • Thanks for the clarification. I suppose Blackminorcappulets must be an inventive extremist of some sort. Those are very serious charges to level. After reading LR’s editorial today I have concerns this site might be veering or have veered into extremism. LR said in her editorial, it is not inaccurate to say that Russia murdered Poland’s president. Not inaccurate is the same thing as accurate, in this context. This clear accusation of murder in the face of such underwhelming and circumstantial evidence indicates a somewhat hysterical mentality. Again this hurts the credibility and believability of the blog. If Putin decides to kill Yulia Latynina and LR sounds off on it, it’s just not going to pack the punch it could if she comes up with any more of these editorials for sure. A pity!

      • There was so little comment because there’s nothing to comment on. For one there were no survivors in the crash, for second it wasn’t OMON it was fire fighters who were yelling at people to get out of there. The people they were yelling at were not the survivors of the crash, they were onlookers, some locals who saw/heard the crash and came to take a look and film it on their mobile phones. Then in the footage there are cracking sounds, as someone suggested in the comments on youtube those were probably the rounds in the dead bodyguards’ handguns cooking off in the fire, the fire fighters didn’t want anyone else to get hurt so when they saw people showing up at the crash site they started telling them in no uncertain terms to get lost, some parts of the plane were still on fire. So that’s about it. So what’s there to comment on?

        • Igor wrote: “it wasn’t OMON it was fire fighters who were yelling at people to get out of there. t

          What are you talking about? This was filmed immediately after the crash. There were no fire fighters there yet. The hysterical woman shouting “Kolya, let’s get the sh*t out of here!!!!” is not a firefighter. She is the wife of Kolya, the man who repeats on saying “Oh sh*t!” behind the camera.

          It seems to be a family video. This family happened to be there when the crash occurred, they got stunned and the woman kept on telling Kolya that they need to get out of there.

          • In the original video I could hear some other voices further in the distance, plus there is this siren that some people in the youtube comments suggested was a train, that in fact was a fire truck

        • @those were probably the rounds in the dead bodyguards’ handguns cooking off in the fire

          Actually bullets in clips are exploding at once or one after another. Warning shots? (I don’t buy a deliberate murder theory, even putin is not crazy enough.)

          There are also some Polish voices heard in distance early in the video: “stay calm” and “look into his eyes”. But I think it’s probably the journalists as they were confronted by the usually rough OMONs (they were rough here too, the journalists said they were “brutal”, but when OMON is “brutal” they murder and rape peaople and don’t just shove and pull them around like they did in this case).

    • blackminorcapullets wrote: “took to shooting at them yelling “Get out of here you whores” – and then laughing.

      What are you talking about? Where in the video does this happen? There is no laughter. There is shock.

      The people, who shot this video, didn’t laugh. Nor did anybody say ““Get out of here you whores”. The dialog is like this:

      Man: Ни хуя себе!
      Woman: Иди назад, Коля! Уходить к черту, Коля!
      Man: Ни хуя себе!

      The man is understandable stunned by the horror of the wreckage and keeps on repeating: “Ни хуя себе!”, which can be translated as “Oh my god! What the f*ck!
      And the woman in the background appears to scream: “Come back, Kolya! We should get out of here, Kolya!”

      That’s a very interesting site you got, blackminorcapullets:

      http://cybercossack.com/
      Demjanjuk- “…hunted down by Jewish groups”.
      April 13th, 2010 by Blackminorca

      Yes There Were Polish Concentration Camps
      And in these Polish run concentration camps, they killed Ukrainians that fought to rid Ukraine of their foreign invaders.

      April 8th, 2010 by Blackminorca

      Are you one of those Ukrainian neo-Nazis provocateurs, Blackminorca? Poles, Jews, Russians – everybody is out to get your sore neo-nazi ass?

  10. Igor,

    you fail to explain how the pilot failed to see 10 meter trees with 400 meter visibility?

    • The Tu 154 lands at a speed of around 300 kph, which is about 90 metres per second, this means that when you’re landing and then all of a sudden you see trees that are 400 metres distant you have approximately 4 – 5 seconds to pull out, that’s not a lot of time for a heavy airliner. It probably would have been enough for a jet fighter but it’s too little time for a Tu-154

    • Yes, clearly the pilot was a Putin stooge who purposefully killed himself and the others for the glory of Putler.

      How else will you explain that this pilot (like all Poles educated during the Soviet era) spoke Russia instead of English.

      The role of Poles is to work as servants to Americans, so they must stop speaking their Slavic language and learn English.

      • @How else will you explain that this pilot (like all Poles educated during the Soviet era) spoke Russia instead of English.

        He spoke Russian AND English (and Polish, of course). The idiots at the control tower didn’t speak English (or Polish), even as they were dealing with a very important international flight.

  11. RTR,
    The role of Poles is to work as servants to Americans, so they must stop speaking their Slavic language and learn English.

    Comment;
    The role of Russians is to work as servant to Chinese, as they must stop speaking their Slavi languag and learn Chinese.

    • aaa,

      Actually I was being sarcastic in regards to the hilarious claim that this incident happened because it is possible that the Russian air controllers didn’t speak English.

      But if you want to be serious, then the Russians too are learning English because they will be subservient to Americans just as Poles.

      Luckily for Georgians, they don’t have to learn English because almost half of their male working-age population works in Russia. One million, for a country that has a total population of 5 million. Why? Because the corruption in their own Georgia is even higher than in Russia, thus the economy sucks.

      • Actually retard, Most young Georgians speak English nowadays.

        They don’t speak Russian very well if at all.

        Corruption in Georgia, according to the world bank, Transparency International etc is MUCH lower than in Russia.

        I guess you are too stupid to realise that the majority of economic problems in Georgia are a result of Russian policies, such as fomenting and aiding separatists, illegal and unjustified economic blockades (they do this to Moldova as well), and various other Russian state actions.

        There is also the small matter of the fact that Georgia has 4.5 million people, while Russia has 140 million people.

        From Transparency International:

        http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2009/cpi_2009_table

        (Rank) / (Country/Territory) / (CPI 2009) / (Score) / (Confidence Range)

        66 / Georgia / 4.1 / 7 / 3.4 – 4.7

        146 / Russia / 2.2 / 8 / 1.9 – 2.4

        So RTR, time for another apology from you for your consistent lying and falsification.

  12. There was a popular Russian joke back from the early 1990s:

    Question to Radio Yerevan: What foreign languages are Russians learning these days?

    Radio Yerevan: Optimists are learning English. Pessimists are learning Chinese.

    Q: How about realists?

    Radio Yerevan: Realists are learning how to use AK-47 in street battle environments.

  13. Francis Smyth-Beresford

    I see Georg is at it again with his multiple aliases, trying to create the impression that his rantings are supported.

  14. Many people talk about Katyn, and few people know about Bykivnia – and they are related.

    Up to 1,000% more victims {Ukrainian and Polish Intelligentsia} of sinful genocide were buried in Bykivnia than in Katyn.

    Bykivnia (Ukrainian: Биківня, Russian: Быковня, Polish: Bykownia) is a former small village on the outskirts of Kiev, Ukraine, that was incorporated into the city in 1923.

    During the Stalinist period in the Soviet Union, it was one of the sites where the NKVD had buried thousands of executed, real or alleged enemies of the Soviet power. The number of bodies buried there varies from source to source between “several dozen thousand,”[1] 30,000,[2] 100,000[3] and 120,000,[4] though some estimates place the number as high as 200,000[5][6] or even 225,000.[4]

    From the early 1920s until late 1940s through the Stalinist purges, the Soviet government hauled the bodies of tortured and killed political prisoners to the pine forests outside the village of Bykivnia and buried them in a grave that spanned 161,500 square feet (15,000 m2). So far 210 mass graves have been identified by Polish and Ukrainian archaeologists working at the site. During the Soviet retreat in the early stages of the Operation Barbarossa, the retreating Soviet troops leveled the village to the ground. The mass grave site was discovered by the Germans along with many other such sites throughout Ukraine.

    It was widely believed that, apart from the Soviet victims of the Great Terror, the site might be the final resting place of 3,435 Polish officers captured by the Soviets during the German and Soviet invasion of Poland of 1939, and executed in the spring of 1940 in the Katyn massacre, among over 20,000 Polish officers and intellectuals.[1]

    Since 2006 Polish researchers have found a number of bodies of Poles, prisoners killed in spring 1940 during the Katyn massacre. Apart from bodies, Polish researchers found everyday use things, such as a comb, on which the owner, an unknown Polish officer, carved several names, such as Franciszek Strzelecki, Ludwik Dworak and Szczyrad… (this potentially might be referring to Colonel Bronislaw Mikolaj Szczyradlowski, deputy of commandant of Lviv’s defense in September 1939). Also, a dog tag belonging to Sergeant Jozef Naglik, soldier of the Skalat Battalion of the Border Defence Corps, was found on the spot. All the names belong to the “Ukrainian list” of Katyn massacre victims and serve as proof that Bykivnya is connected to the Katyn crime.[1]

  15. @igorfazlyev

    ‘….I don’t see anything wrong with Putin’s suggestion that Stalin might have been settling scores with the Poles for some 30 thousand Russian/Soviet POW’s captured by the Polish troops after the Red Army’s botched attempt to take Warsaw in 1920 who later died in Polish captivity. I mean those POW’s did die in Poland, it’s a fact. ‘

    Well I see something wrong in that given that it is not a fact as Putin well knows. It is about as factual as claiming that the Nazis were responsible for Katyn.

    In 2004 a Russian government sanctioned commission, comprising of a joint working group of Polish and Russian historians examined all available archives, records and evidence available to them.

    The conclusion was that these Russian/Bolshevik soldiers, like 20000 Polish prisoners that died in Soviet POW camps during the Polish-Soviet War at the same time, died as a result of malnutrition and epidemics. The region had been ravaged by WW1 and the shortages of food and epidemics were also affecting the civilian population of Eastern Europe simultaneously.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camps_for_Russian_prisoners_and_internees_in_Poland_(1919%E2%80%931924)

    So in other words what have here is a disengenious Russian attempt (the deliberate ‘politicisation’ of history to coin a favourite Kremlin phrase) to deflect and diminish the nature of the war crime of Katyn by misrepresenting one historical event to explain and justify another.

    On the one hand we have the death of 20000 Russian and 20000 Polish pows who perished in POW camps during the Polish-Soviet War that in both cases was unintentional.

    On the other hand we have the deliberate slaughter of 22,000 Polish officers at Katyn by summary execution.

    But I guess when you have lied about Katyn for 47 years it is hard to break the habit of lying about everything else to justify it rather than acknowledge the truth.

    It’s a similar kind of rhetoric and tactic employed by Holocaust deniers ie the use of a combination of contextualisation, half-truths and outright lies to deny the facts and truth of historical events.

    That said I’ve got to disagree with LaRussophobe on this. This was an accident.

    Russia and Russians are guilty for many other things, but not this.

    • Well, of course technically there is a difference between having POW’s executed and starving them to death, although it has to be noted that the end result is the same.

      On second thought, though, I must admit that Putin brining up those POW’s from the 1920’s was a rather pathetic blunder on his part, akin to an 8 year old who got caught stealing candy saying, ‘But Johnnie steals candy too’ Whatever happened to those Russian POW’s in the 1920’s and even if some of them were starved deliberately, it can’t make the Katyn massacre less of a crime than it is. So the Katyn commemoration ceremony was the wrong place and the wrong time to bring that up as essentially it’s irrelevant to what happened in Katyn in 1940. Put might as well have mentioned the siege of Smolensk in 1609-1611 to remind the Poles they did some bad things to Russians too.

      In general though, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding between the Poles and the Russians about the Katyn massacre, and the reason, imho, is that Russians are generally accustomed to being treated like crap by their government, so they can’t wrap their heads around what it is the Poles are so pissed about, ok some 20 thousand Polish officers got shot, at the same time as that happened, hundreds of thousands of Russians were being sent to labour camps and executed, it was the Purges so what’s the big deal.
      Perhaps what Russians need to do is try and look at the whole thing through the Polish eyes, that could, hopefully, teach us to respect ourselves and then we would learn to respect others, including the Poles. Unless and until that happens the Russians will continue to be at a loss as to what the Poles and many other nations are so irked with them.

  16. Who is responsible for the Russian airport that did not have the electronics that all other airports have?

    Who is responsible for not having the mobile beacon that Putin had for his flight into Smolensk? Worse yet, if that beacon were installed and turned in the middle of the forest instead of the runway, this could have caused this crash.

    • Who is responsible for the Russian airport that did not have the electronics that all other airports have?

      There are millions of small airfields all over the World that don’t have these electronics. From what I understand, most airfields both in Russia and in Poland don’t have these electronics. But there are few catastrophes like that. In fact, this very airfield in Smolensk has been receiving many airplanes per day for many decades, without any catastrophes. Afaik, earlier that week and that day, it safely received various other official delegations from Poland and Russia.

      The problem was that the dense fog made the landing unsafe, so the air traffic controllers told the pilot to go to the large, well-equipped airports of Minsk or Moscow, which didn’t have fog problems. The pilot knew that this was a small airport and that the fog was terrible, but he chose to ignore these warnings, and paid with his life and the lives of the other people on board.

  17. LR:
    With all due respect – if you dismiss sensible comments like the ones from igorfazlyev, all you are left with crazies like dima and RTR… I don’t think you want to do that!
    Just my 2c

    • It’s a deliberate policy of the blog runners. They’re immanently crazy about Russia, so they don’t need neither real facts to hate it nor sane readers to agree with them.

      • There are plenty of facts on this blog. They are presented in a passionate manner – which makes it interesting to read.

        Russia loves to be hated. The worst nightmare for Putin and Co. that the world really doesn’t give a damn. Being “Upper Volta with missiles” is the biggest blow to Russian self-esteem.

        For some interesting reasons, this blog attracts crazies from different sides. dima, sascha, and Georg are killing each other in their dreams. But it makes for very interesting show. I’ll get some extra popcorn.

        • If you think Russia loves to be hated, you are sadly mistaken.

          With equal pertinence, Jews love to be hated too. In fact that is what has kept them afloat for over two millennia!

          At your age, you don’t even know how to form a sensible, mature argument, and resort to juvenile attacks.

        • Typical trite comment from Corn Eating Felix. Not crazy, but sick inside and more schlemiel than meal.

    • Your comment “if you dismiss sensible comments like the ones from igorfazlyev, all you are left with crazies like dima and RTR… I don’t think you want to do that!” is an excellent, nay, superb comment! – Felix.

      Those two Mascali, i.e. dimwit and RuSSia’s Today Retard are so full of Soviet verbal diarrhoea that at times it becomes nauseating. But then it’s a free world and free speech is one of its beauties – so unlike their beloved ruSSia under KGB master spy and ‘vozd’ Putler.

      Can you imagine where the rest of us would be by now if we lived in that ‘parasite’ oops I mean ‘paradise’ land. Why we would all be behind bars for spreading anti ruSSia ‘provocations’. What a filthy, sick Soviet commo word “provocations” is, so beloved by that RTR.

  18. Blatant evidences of Russian crime in Smolensk:

    Stalin and Beria chose the place to plant the tree near the airport (true photograph, Smolensk 10.04.1940)
    http://demotivation.ru/s9whfhphmo8rpic.html

    “The eagle has landed. A cartoon of “Gazet van Antwerpen” about the planecrash of Polish president Kaczynski. Putin is behind the cartoon, laughing.
    http://alarumone.com/wp/p/597

    • I thought the caption under that photo was fake.

    • Great investigative job, Amigo! Is this the tree that destroyed the airplane? All we have to do now is prove that Putin was there with his Georgian pals Beria and Stalin on that day – and we have proof that Putin intentionally killed Kaczinski.

  19. Amigo – very nice.

    Here are some more pictures of Russians doing things.

    http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/

  20. “The problem was that the dense fog made the landing unsafe,”

    How much is Putin paying to have trolls post at every major forum? We see the same false mantra of lies “Dense fog, old aircraft, stupid pilot, ammo burning off…”

    This reminds me of the chutzpah of the “hunger marches” the Kremlin launched in foreign countries while they were starving 10 million Ukrainians to death.

    http://www.the-spark.net/np676604.html

    • “We see the same false mantra of lies “Dense fog, old aircraft, stupid pilot, ammo burning off…”

      That’s all about Poliaks, they had this terrible combo. Though fog was Russian, a secret weapon of Putin’s clique.

  21. So far all we have received is; mis-information from the Russian side.

    First we were told the plane made 4 attempts to land the last resulted in the horrific crash. We now know only one was made,

    We were told the pilot couldn’t speak Russian now we know that he could, so there was no language barrier,

    We were told there was dense fog the video evidence does not show this.

    We were told the pilot was pressurised by passengers to land at Smolensk this has also been disproved.

    This mis-information is not helping; it just raises suspicions because you start to think the Russians are hiding something.

    Also maybe like most of Russia’s crumbling inadequate infrastructure this airfield in Smolensk was not fitted with modern landing technology, ok I except that, but when Putin was due there whether it be by plane or helicopter they brought in state of the art equipment, (then removed it), could the Russians not have extended the same level of care to the polish head of state and a large portion of that nation’s elite? After all a head of state does not drop in unannounced at the drop of a hat, these visits are planned and every aspect is scrutinised, and the landing sites are agreed in advance by BOTH parties, even the stupid Russians must have been fully aware of this airfield inadequacies and ultimately it was their responsibility to ensure the highest level of safety for a visiting head of state. They failed to do this….Why????

    • Initially right after the crash there was very little real information available. It’s unclear where the bit about four attempts came from, I read in various sources that on that fateful morning three planes attempted to land at Smolensk North, the first one landed successfully, the second one, an IL-76 military cargo plane, was diverted to Vityebsk and the third one was the Polish air force one, which crashed. So it could be that the people waiting for the Polish delegation to land on the ground might have heard the diverted IL-76 flying over and later concluded it had been the president’s liner trying to land unsuccessfully.
      I mean we can speculate all we want about how this rumor started but I find it highly unlikely that it was a deliberate attempt to mislead the public sanctioned by the Russian leadership. I mean if they were going to make public the transcripts of the black box recordings what would be the point of deliberately lying about it?
      The bit about the pilot not being able to speak Russia, – actually it was in this blog that I’d heard it for the first time, none of the Russian sources I’ve read/watched mentioned it.
      As for the fog, the ‘video evidence’ confirms it, it was dense enough to make landing risky.
      The bit about the pilot being pressured to land at Smolensk was pure speculation which was never presented as fact by any media outlets. It was based on the famous episode during the war between Russia and Georgia, when the pilot landed the President’s plane in Baku instead of Tbilisi, figuring it would be too dangerous to land in a combat zone, and later got reprimanded by the president and allegedly even threatened with dismissal. And please note that all this info and speculation came primarily from Polish sources.

      When there is a crash like that there’s always a lot of confusion and speculation going on in the days immediately after it so I don’t understand why this time you find it to be so suspicious.

      As for the Russians brining some state of the art equipment to Smolensk North for Putin and then removing it, where did you get that information from? My understanding was that Putin traveled by helicopter for the very reason that Smolensk North does not have ILS and that they did not want to bring any equipment there. Helicopter don’t need ILS, generally. So to me your allegation that some equipment was brought in for Putin and then removed before the Polish plane came sounds like a bit of a stretch.

    • R John wrote: “but when Putin was due there whether it be by plane or helicopter they brought in state of the art equipment, (then removed it)

      I have never seen this. Do you have a reference? Or did you borrow this invention from our liar Bohdan? Or did you invent it yourself? How creative.

      • RTR how stupid of you, it is you that is the lying scoundrel!

        Also a very bad habit of yours is that you judge others by yourself! Naughty, naughty.

  22. “even the stupid Russians must have been fully aware of this airfield inadequacies and ultimately it was their responsibility to ensure the highest level of safety for a visiting head of state. They failed to do this….Why????”

    Think about it with your chicken brain, stupid R John (a valid representative of stupid fat Yanks).

  23. Thanks Hugo C for illuminating us with your wisdom, I wait with bated breath too read your next reverting “non” Post. PS I’m British (old chap)

  24. I have some experience with weather and aviation, having been a weather forecaster in the U.S. Air Force for 16 of my 20 years. In my estimation, there was no excuse for this crash. Airfields/aircraft types/pilots all have minimum ceiling/visibility requirements, and obviously the Poles would not pick some rookie pilot to fly their leaders around. That leaves problems/incompetence on the ground systems to be most likely at fault. Unless they actually tried to land in below minimum conditions, which is highly unlikely IMHO.

    • And why do you think that it’s so unlikely that they would have tried to land in below minimum conditions. Can you actually determine what the conditions are on the ground when you’re flying at 7-10 thousand kilometres above sea level? The controllers on the ground did inform them the conditions were poor and did advise them to divert, why they decided to attempt to land anyway remains unclear. You seem to be making the assumption that experienced pilots are somehow flawless and that if a pilot has been picked to fly the head of state he/she must be incapable of making mistakes. Well, I may not have experience with weather and aviation but I have plenty of experience with humans and believe you me, even the best of us do screw up every once in a while; Do you think they picked rookie engineers for the Space Shuttle programme? How is it then that the Challenger blew up on lift-off and the Columbia disintegrated on re-entry? Oh, yeah must have been the evil Russkies; I’m not imaginative enough to come up with how exactly they managed to pull that off, but I’m sure our dear friend R John will be able to think of something that will put the blame for both of those space shuttle disasters squarely with Putin.
      People do sometimes do stupid things and/or make mistakes, it’s not always some evil conspiracy that puts us in harm’s way, sometimes it’s our own lack of judgement.

      • Pilots have to follow the international aviation rules and they know, better than most, that you only need to make ONE mistake and it’s over for you. I’m not familiar with the equipment at that airport, but it could be the pilot didn’t believe the weather observation was correct, but sane people don’t risk 100 lives just to make an appointment on time. In 1988, we crashed a B-1 while trying to land because the equipment on the plane didn’t work properly, the minumums for all B-1’s was raised from 200 Cig 1/2 vis to 500 and 1 soon after that. Newer airliners have auto land systems which work very well, but are seldom used. The black boxes should tell the story.

        • By the way, all four crewmembers walked away from the crash.

        • it’s one thing knowing something and it’s another thing acting in accordance with what you know. You’re right about the black boxes, though, hopefully those recordings should clear things up a bit.
          Btw check out what I just found on youtube

          Looks like a video from Russia Today, so some might find it suspect

          • After further reflection, I believe it was probably pilot error. They were basically flying in a cloud and he thought he could get lucky and find the runway. The cloud ceiling was probably only 100 to 200 feet off the ground, and his aircraft was not equipped to land in those condition at that airport. I can’t think of anything they could do on the ground to crash the plane. If they gave the wrong altimeter setting, and he crashed, he would have crashed on the runway. It is hard not to suspect skullduggery when dealing with the Russian government, but in this case I think their hands are clean. IMHO.

            • You are quite wrong on all counts.

              Visibility was 400 meters by the Russians own account but the videos clearly show it was better than this – with some blue sky in the distance.

              • for one, there is no blue sky in the video that was posted above, I can’t imagine where you could have seen it in there, and for second, the fog eventually cleared up in the afternoon, so there would be blue sky in any videos filmed two-three hours after the crash

              • 400 meters visibility is only 1/4 mile, well below most aircraft minimums. If the pilot didn’t trust the radar system, he shouldn’t have tried to land. The horizontal visibility isn’t the problem as much as the vertical visibility. The pictures indicate stratus and fog, I would bet the cloud ceiling was close to the ground. The observation after the crash isn’t necessarily what was happening during the aircrafts decent.

  25. Obamayomama; at last someone with experience who knows what they’re talking about, although our friend igorfazlyev seems very determined to find excuses and I’m sure in his mind your 16 years experience will count for nothing. I wait to see how he attempts to rebuffs you.

  26. The Russophile trolls, including the NY Times , have done a good job of spinning this incident.

    However, it is clear that the jet was clipping tiny trees in open fields a qtr mile before it flipped and crashed and I dont think Jesus Christ screaming at the pilot to land is going to stop the pilot from full throttle and pull back on the stick.

    This really shows how the jet was flying for miles while in sight of the ground and after hitting the first tiny tree, they could not manage to gain any altitude before they flipped and crashed a qtr mile later.

    http://cybercossack.com/?p=1929

    • 4 miles is 6.5 kilometres or 6500 metres, assuming that they were flying at about 80-90 metres per second, you divide 6500 by 80 to get approximately 81 seconds, the time between the moment they would have first seen the trees and the moment they would have started clipping them. If that should have been enough time to pull up and avoid hitting the ground, I don’t know, honestly. If it should, then something must have been wrong with the plane

  27. Igor, I tend to agree with you — it’s hard to see how this accident could have been planned by Putin or the Russian government in any way, too many variables (the only possibility is if the Polish pilot was a self-sacrificing kamikaze Putinite, or if some Kommissar in the plane actually shot a gun at him). It seems more probable to me that the passengers — maybe the president himself — wanted to try to land at Smolensk, so as not to be late for the ceremony (which might have happened if they had gone to Minsk or Vytebsk). Like so many people, they thought “it’s not that dangerous, it’s not going to happen to us” — like so many people who end up in car accidents.

    As you say, there’s a lot to criticize in Russia and in Putin; we don’t have to try to pin this one down on them. Not everything bad that happens in Europe, or even in Russia, is Putin’s fault. Trying to make everything sound like it is his fault does make one lose credibility, which is a pity.

    • The president fired his pilots once when they landed in Azerbaijan instead of Georgia. They tried to land the plane four times. I think that says something.

  28. ASEHPE,

    They clipped the first bush in an open field a quarter mile before the crash .

    This caused no damage.

    Tell me how anything is going to prevent the pilot from trying to gain 30′ in altitude to clear the trees a thousand meters ahead?

    They did not clear these larger trees ahead and that is when they flipped and crashed.

    This has nothing to do with fog or passenger pressure or any of the rubbish we had heard to date.

    • maybe I’m wrong but one kilometre doesn’t seem like such a long distance for a plane flying at about 300 kph, it would have covered this distance in about 10 seconds, obviously enough time for the pilot to pull on the control wheel real hard but whether it’s enough time for a heavy airliner to react, I don’t know, especially considering the fact that they probably weren’t going at full throttle since they were descending.

  29. Igor,

    These planes are designed to climb at 10 meters per second – yet they could not clear small trees?

    This was not pilot error.

    Also, with full flaps for landing, the throttle is increased to allow for rapid climbing if something does go wrong.

    • blackminorcapullets wrote: “The Russophile trolls, including the NY Times, have done a good job of spinning this incident.

      Oh absolutely! The entire World media, including Polish media, are Putin’s sockpuppets!

      You should also look into the latest Putin attack on European aviation: the so-called “volcano eruption in Iceland” that has stranded European air traffic.

      You have convinced us that it is impossible for pilots to make mistakes, especially when trying to land in fog.

      Now use the same logic to conclude that volcanoes don’t erupt for no reason. There should be little doubt in your mind that Putin has exploded a nuclear device in Iceland, making it look a little like a volcano eruption. The the Putin-owned newspapers like the NY Times put a spin on this, lying to their readers that it was a volcano.

      Mark my word: sooner or later some noble Russophobe will blame the volcano eruption in Iceland on Putin. So, don’t wait: be the first to report this!

    • You’re not taking into account the time it takes the pilots to react to things they see come right at them from the fog plus the time it takes the plane to respond, it’s a big plane with plenty of inertia, a thousand metres is a great distance for a car or possible a small Cessna plane but with a heavy airliner, greater distances and longer times are needed to turn them around or pull them out of a descent

  30. RTR

    Will you be offering anything of substance today to this discussion?

    Perhaps you can explain where is the mobile landing beacon that Putin brought in when he landed – and why that was not made available for this flight – or perhaps it was :-(

    • What “beacon”? You gave no references. Or was this beacon also in your video?

      Look, if you want to say that the crash in Smolensk was not an accident and to invent conspiracy theories about what happened in Smolensk, here is the most likely conspiracy theory by far:

      To determine who has committed the crime, you need to answer the question: “Who benefits”? Who benefits from the death of Polish officials in Russia? Clearly, those who want to worsen the relations between Poland and Russia. And who hates Russia and Poland the most? Ukrainian nationalists.

      Uke nationalists have already shot down 78 Jews in an air disaster earlier this decade. On Oct. 4, 2001: A Sibir Airlines Tu-154 flying from Tel Aviv, Israel, to Novosibirsk, Russia and carrying 78 Russian Jews and the crew, was shot down by the Ukrainian military, killing everybody. There was little attention paid to this tragic act in the West because the Jews were Russian, and who cares about the deaths of Russians? In fact, the President of Ukraine Kuchma said: “Let’s not make a tragedy out of this“. He also said that the reason why his men didn’t know that it’s not acceptable to shoot down any civilian airplane – even if it is carrying the hated Jews and Moskals – is because the missiles were made in a foreign country – the Soviet Union – and the instructions were in a foreign language that Ukrainians don’t understand: Russian. But we all know that Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union and all Ukrainians are fluent in Russian.

      So, this was a lie. What probably happened was that some West Ukrainian nationalists – who hate Russians, Jews and Poles – intentionally shot down this plane, killing three birds (actually 78 “birds”) with one stone: Jews and Russians, plus discrediting Kuchma.

      And these same Ukrainian nationalist terrorists must have traveled to Smolensk and Katyn earlier this month and purposefully shot down the Polish plane. Then their propaganda man – you- started to blame Russians for this act.

      This way, you guys again killed two birds with one stone: you have killed the hated Poles and you have blamed this on the hated Russians, causing hostilities between Russia and Poland. How clever.

  31. Only an experienced pilot is qualified to speculate on the reason for repeat approaches into fog (an obvious sign of desperation).

    The most logical explanation is that the pilot had no choice. It is logical to speculate the pilot could not proceed to an alternate airport because of, for instance, fuel shortage.

    Was there fire at the crash site?? If not fuel shortage might have been the reason.

  32. The fact that we all think the Russians may have turned off the navigation aids just shows what we think of the Russians.

    Such speculation would be inconceivable about anyone except Russians.

    • Yes, such speculation would be inconceivable about anyone except Russians, IN THIS RUSSOPHOBIC BLOG.

      But if you go, say, to an Americaphobic blog, you will find similar speculations against Americans, for example the belief that it was the American government that perpetrated the 9-11 terrorist acts:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

      9/11 conspiracy theories
      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Jump to: navigation, search
      This article is semi-protected indefinitely in response to an ongoing high risk of vandalism.
      The collapse of the two World Trade Center towers and the nearby WTC7 (in this photo, the brown building to the left of the towers) is a major focus of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

      9/11 conspiracy theories allege that the September 11 attacks in 2001 were either intentionally allowed to happen or were a false flag operation orchestrated by an organization with elements inside the United States government.[1] A poll taken in 2006 by Scripps Howard and Ohio University showed that, “More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East.”[2] The most prominent theory is that the collapse of the World Trade Center and 7 World Trade Center were the result of a controlled demolition rather than structural weakening due to fire.[3][4] Another prominent belief is that the Pentagon was hit by a missile launched by elements from inside the U.S. government[5] or that a commercial airliner was allowed to do so via an effective standdown of the American military.[6][7] The commonly claimed motives are to justify the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, to expand U.S. control of the Middle East’s oil resources, to facilitate increased military spending; and to restrict domestic civil liberties.

  33. RTR

    I did not say the Russians did it. I said the fact it is on our minds shows what we think of Russians.

    For instance, no one in their right mind will stop the flow of oil and gas down a pipeline because of a dispute about rates. Every normal person would complain, complain and complain some more, but not the Russians. The Russians turned off the pipeline.

    Russians have a history of such actions.

    • I understand you point: you yourself do not believe that there was some conspioracy in this case. But many other people here at La Russophobe do seek a “Russian conspiracy”.

      And this is natural. This is La Russophobe web site, so the fans of this blog are crazy paranoid Russian-hating conspiracy kooks.

      My point is that if you go to numerous other blogs analogous to this one, say, the ones dedicated to the hate of USA (and there are 100 times as many of those), you will find the same conspiracy nuts as here, only spreading conspiracy theories as to how the American government was responsible for the 9-11 and how it shot down the Iranian airplane with 290 civilians on board in 1988 not by mistake but on purpose.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
      Iran Air Flight 655, also known as IR655, was a civilian airliner shot down by US missiles on Sunday 3 July 1988, over the Strait of Hormuz, toward the end of the Iran–Iraq War. The aircraft, an Airbus A300B2 operated by Iran Air as IR655, was flying from Bandar Abbas, Iran, to Dubai, UAE, when it was destroyed by the U.S. Navy’s guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 66 children,[1] ranking it the seventh among the deadliest airliner fatalities.[2] It was the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Indian Ocean and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus A300 anywhere in the world. Vincennes was traversing the Straits of Hormuz, inside Iranian territorial waters, at the time of the attack IR655 was within Iranian airspace.

      Just imagine what you would have said if a Russian military ship, located in Georgian territorial waters, shot down a Georgian airliner flying inside Georgia. Would you say that it was an honest mistake or an intentional act of war?

      Similarly, if you go to one of numerous anti-Semitic sites, you will find people spreading conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel.

      Russians have a history of such actions.

      Of course, that’s what Russophobes think. Just as Americophobes think that Americans have a history of such actions. And anti-Semites think that Israelis have a history of such actions.

      Xenophobes – whether Russophoobes, Americophobes or Judophobes – all suffer from the same disease and thus think alike.

      For instance, no one in their right mind will stop the flow of oil and gas down a pipeline because of a dispute about rates.

      My neighbor refused to pay the new gas rates that our local gas company PG&E charged, and soon they cut off his gas and electricity. They resumed supplying gas to him only after he paid his debt. He almost froze to death. Nobody will sell their products to you if you can’t agree on the price.

      The American government does much crazier things when ti comes to international trade. For example do you know that despite denunciations and begging from the European Union and the rest of the civilized world, the United States has kept the economic blockade of Cuba for the last 50 years, even though Cuba is a full-fledged member of the WTO.

      Do you know that if you buy a Cuban cigar in, say, Mexico or France and bring it into USA, you can be imprisoned for up to 10 years and fined up to $500,000?

      That’s real crazy.

  34. As intrepid Latynina said some time ago, not every murder in 15th century Italy were committed by Borgia. However, if somebody was poisoned it was naturally assumed that Borgia had some participation.

    Same with Russia. Not every high-visibility murder in Russia is committed with Kremlin’s approval or even knowledge. However, given its bloody record of last decade, it’s natural to assume that Power Vertical had some participation.

    For the record, I do believe that it was an accident. However, “who benefits” does lead to the conspiracy theory. It will be much easier for Putin to negotiate shale gas agreement with Tusk than it would be with Kaczyński. I do believe that Putin’s very civilized behavior after the crash is explained by great advantages that courting Tusk brings hum.

    But sometimes the fog is just the fog. And sometimes SOBs like Putin just get lucky. He got lucky with oil prices; he got lucky with this accident; he may even get lucky if Israel bombs Iran

  35. Bogdan from Australia

    Being Polish and fully aware that Putin is capable of commiting any barbaric act I tend to agree with Igor and his calm and rational explanation of the circumstances surrounding the accident.

    There is no doubt that Puting is rubbing his hands with glee, thanking the forces of nature for helping him to get rid of one of his sworn enemies.

    However, I don’t see any rationale for Putin to organise a terrorist act of such a magnitude againts head of state of foreign country.

    Lech Kaczynski’s Presidency drifted towads the end. His personal popularity as well of his party, Law And Justice were on the wane so there would be very little political or military gain from such an act and the possible political risk huge.

    It would resemble a proverbial sexual intercourse with a virgin: Big risk and small pleasure.

    Of course, the tragic departure of Kaczynski makes for Putin the dream and the bussiness of rebuilding the Soviet Empire little easier, as there is no other Eastern European leader of such a courage and prominence to resist his evil designs.

    Western Europe is politically and militarily a laughing stock and no one with a sane mind would expect the WE to lift a finger to help their EE brothers in the case of Putin attacking Georgia or attempting to subdue the Balts.

    The choice of the pooftish, man-child Guido Westerwelle (or Westershwuelle as we could call him) as a German FM, proves to be the last nail in the coin of the WE ability to wage any meaningful intervention against the neo-soviets.

    Rather sooner than later we will have the opportunity to see how the tragedy in Smolensk will benefit Putin as he will for sure mount some action against Georgia. If he does, it will be rather strong albeit indirect confirmation of what has really happened in Smolensk.

    The latest, fantastic article by Ralf Peters in the New York Post dealing with that subject is really worth reading.

  36. Hooey — what are you guys smoking. Pass it around.

    Who benefits when Russia’s enemies are killed.
    Duh – let me go out on the limb here …. ITS THE RUSSIANS!

    Plus, Russians dont need to benefit from killing – they do it out of habit. Considering that Mao was on the Kremlin payroll since 1925, that means the Russians were the architects of death for 100 million in the last century – and they did that without expecting a “benefit” .

    • Who benefits when Russia’s enemies are killed.
      Prior to his death, Kaczinski was a universally despised politician in Poland. After his death, he has become a national hero, and now his twin brother or some other political ally has a much better chance of winning the next Presidency.

      So, Russia has gained nothing with Kaczinski’s death. But it has lost a lot, because his accident has drawn enormous public attention around the World to the Katyn story, which is a big PR loss for Russia. Moreover, having a foreign President die in Russia is hardly good publicity for Russia and its airports.

      So, this accident is really bad for Putin. Who benefited from this accident?
      When a Polish President is killed in Russia, the main beneficiaries are Ukrainian nationalists like yourself, who hate both Poles and Russians and want to create hostilities between Poles and Russians.

      And you do hate, Poland, don’t you? Here is what you write in your own blog:

      http://cybercossack.com/
      Yes There Were Polish Concentration Camps
      And in these Polish run concentration camps, they killed Ukrainians that fought to rid Ukraine of their foreign invaders.

      April 8th, 2010 by Blackminorca

      So, now that we know that you benefited the most from this accident, would you like to confess that it was you who did it?

      • The website is committed to pulling lost information from the memory hole. We will withdraw any information that is not substantiated.

      • RTR states:

        Prior to his death, Kaczinski was a universally despised politician in Poland

        As usual RTR is lying.

        Kaczynski was very popular with a large section of the Polish public, especially Polish Jews (I suspect RTR’s attitude towards him is further evidence he is not Jewish at all).

        Kaczynski leaves legacy of Polish-Jewish reconciliation

        For Jews, Poland’s late president, Lech Kaczynski, was a man of many firsts.

        He was the first Polish president to attend a service at a Polish synagogue, the first to celebrate Chanukah at the presidential palace, the first Polish leader to provide support for a Jewish history museum on Polish soil.

        His death in Saturday’s plane crash along with his wife Maria and 96 members of Poland’s political elite represents a huge loss for the Polish-Jewish relationship, Poland’s chief rabbi, New York native Michael Schudrich, told JTA.

        …….

        But few would deny that Kaczynski and others who worked to preserve Jewish culture and died in the plane crash collectively represented a brain trust of Jewish-Polish-Israeli relations.

        “Kaczynski and those around him, they are not replaceable,” said Monika Krawczyk, CEO of the Foundation for the Preservation of Jewish Heritage in Poland. “His approach to Jewish issues has to do with his personal experience and convictions. We hope for people similarly sensitive, but they will not be the same.”

        As for his popularity, well over 100,000 people lined the streets for his funeral, there have been outpourings of grief at his death, not likely if he was “universally despised” as RTR claims.

        Of course, given that RTR is a habitual lier and falsifier we can trust absolutely nothing that he posts.

  37. Bogdan from Australia

    blackminorcapulets – you are right to a large degree. I’m just reading the epic book “Mao The Untold Story” by Jung Chang and Johny Halliday. The invovment of Stalin in incomprehensible genocide commited by Mao is fully documented.

    However, to almost the same degree are Germans responsible for creating and supporting the Lenin’s regime during the WW1, so one could assume that those are the Germans who are responsible for creating the greatest evil in a history of humanity.

    I don’t discount the possibility that Putin, or at least some roque elements of KGB are standing behind the tragedy and they are laughing all the way.

    The problem is with proving that.

    Without that prof, the Polish government cannot accuse Russians nor even make any suggestion without generating major international crisis.

  38. “so one could assume that those are the Germans who are responsible for creating the greatest evil in a history of humanity.”

    Rubbish – and people have no problem blaming Putin for the poisoning of Yushchenko and the murder of scores of political opponents.

  39. I think most of us are asking questions rather than making allegations, we want this tragic event fully investigated, hopefully at some stage by an independent third party maybe from the EU, the French and British have the expertise,, sorry I like millions of others don’t trust Putin and his cronies, I think any blame attached to the controllers on the ground would be covered up, the Russians are past masters at this kind of skulduggery.

  40. To Our KGB Trolls:

    Here is the shooting video and we took the time to make circles around the Russians crawling about the wreckage while the shots were fired.

    I wonder why they were shooting? One would think they would be carrying first aid kits and not small caliber pistols.

    • I am sorry, blackminorcapullets, but I don’t see any people or any other creatures “crawling about the wreckage” in that video. Nor do I see anybody “firing shots” in that video. Nor do I see anybody “making circles”. In fact, I don’t see any humans in this video at all. Only the forest and the burning pieces of the airplane. I also don’t understand Polish, so I don’t know what your captions say.

      If the other readers can point out to me where in this video one can see “Russians crawling about the wreckage” or you “making circles”, I will immediately consult an optician to get glasses.

      Otherwise – I recommend that you immediately check into a mental institution to cure your hallucinations, our Uke neo-nazi troll.

  41. RTR,

    This is completely off subject but the question is this.

    Which is the most successful cover up successfully done by the Russians?

    1) The fact that they killed 100 million in the last century

    2) The fact that they were Hitler’s partner from 1933 when they built his weapons and trained his pilots and simultaneously started WWII with the Nazis by invading Poland from the east.

    Most think Russia’s biggest success story is their cover up of the fact that they started “The Great Patriotic War” with their friends, the Nazis.

    • blackminorcapullets,

      Why would I want to discuss history from 77 years ago with a provocateur troll like you, who has been intentionally been spreading incredible lies about the video of the Smolensk crash?

      I called you to task on dozens of lies that you have written about this video. First, explain why you told these lies – and after that I will discuss early 20th century history with you.

  42. Landing in fog results in everything going white just when you badly need to see.

    You can see the airport environment clearly from above, but just at the critical moment on close in approach nothing but white.

    Fog is a trap.

    • Ron,

      Look at the videos taken minutes after the crash. there are two linked right above.

      What fog do you refer to?

      • don’t know I watched the video twice, and I do see fog in there, for instance 10 seconds in, there’s a clearing between some trees behind the undercarriage lying on the ground and it’s milk white

  43. Andrew,

    RTR states:

    Prior to his death, Kaczinski was a universally despised politician in Poland

    As usual RTR is lying.

    No, he is not lying. It’s just in Russia a leader is either universally despised (Kaczinski , Saakashvili) or universally admired (Putin, Chavez). And if undesirable politician loses election (McCain, Timoshenko) then it is incontrovertible proof that this politician is completely marginalized.

    The concept of respectful disagreement and difference of opinion has been put to death with Zinovyev, Bukharin and hundreds of others. I think it’s an important point to understand, especially when you are in Georgia on the receiving side of all the dirt…

  44. If you want to know more clearly what it is like to land in fog find a fogged in freeway and drive 100 miles an hour.

  45. bmc:

    I looked for fog also and thought I saw some in the background, but it was not clear. The fires may have cleared it away. Fog (clouds) are unstable and are normally coming on or going away depending on heating or cooling of the air.

    However, repeated approaches ending in a crash is pretty clear evidence of fog.

    Nothing about this accident is absolutely clear as everyone will be trying to manage the evidence for their own purpose.

  46. Ron,

    There was only one approach – even the Russians admit that.

    Also, you are ignoring the video that is linked above which shows at 44 seconds the far side of a distant field – there was no major fog and what you see in most of the video is smoke, not fog.

    Blue sky appears at approx 46 seconds

    • You can see imaginary people “firing shots”, “making circles” and “crawling around the wreckage” in this video, and yet you don’t see any fog in this video, even though it is omnipresent? You must be brain-dead, blackminorcapullets.

      • That is a fascinating retort and it will be fascinating to see learn of your position on the video below. Seeing as you hate fascists (Ukrainians certainly do – 9 million were killed during WWII) I am sure that you will also hate their partner, the Russians.

    • In the 46th second in the video what you see there looks a field but I wouldn’t say it was that distant, you can maybe see for a few hundred meters, but not for a kilometer or above.
      Plus there was really rather dense fog in Smolensk on the morning of that day, as I said in another post I can personally attest to that since I was there at the time (even though I didn’t see the crash)

    • blackminorcapullets, please stop trying to prove there was no fog with that grainy video. Maybe the FSB was behind the crash, maybe it wasn’t, I personally don’t know. Under the normal circumstances presumption of innocence would apply, i.e. Putin would be regarded innocent unless proven guilty but since you’re prejudiced against the Russians I take it you will consider the Russian government guilty unless/until they manage to prove their innocence beyond a shadow of a doubt, so I guess in your mind they will always remain guilty because in matters like this there’s always doubts and there’s always shadows, but please humor me, just stop trying to prove there was no fog in Smolensk on the morning of April 10, because there was fog, I saw it with my own eyes, not in some footage on youtube.

  47. 1939 German-Soviet troop parade in Brest Litovsk.flv

    Shows the criminal cooperation between the two Fascist and Communist monsters in the destruction of the Polish republic.

    RTR: are you mad or are you simply against the truth? The Soviets were aggressors against Poland both in Lenin’s invasion of Poland between 1918-1921, and the Stalin led invasion of 1939. Those are facts, and you cannot argue
    with them.

  48. Nazi – Communist Collaboration in WW 2

  49. Boris,

    That video is very educational.

    We can see Litvinov giving the Nazi salute to Hitler and Stalin issuing a proclamation outlawing any protest against Nazis.

  50. From Poland’s Tragedy, Hope for Better Ties with Russia – Zbigniew Brzezinski

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1981930,00.html

  51. When you are coming in for a landing, if you are flying a turbine plane, you pull the throttle back – but with turbine engines, you need to keep up the rpm’s, because unless the turbine are already turning, they take a while to spool up and develop thrust – to climb.

    I don’t know what kind of aviation charts the Polish pilot had.

    The fact that he was approaching for landing indicates that he was way off course for some reason.

    Normally, an ILS (Instrument Landing System) is something a jet of this type should have.

    I would also expect GPS (Global Positioning System), altimeter (for altitude), transponder (for tracking position), and, in fact, redundant systems on board.

    It seems to me that this pilot was making an approach for landing.

    He may not have had a correct altimeter setting – you have to adjust your altimeter based on differing pressure gradients in the locale, and may have thought that he was actually higher than he was.

    That’s one thing.

    Where was the runway in relation to his course – I looked at Cybercossack’s layout, but it doesn’t tell me where the runway was.

    Obviously, this pilot was too low – there was a hill coming up.

    If he could not climb, fully expecting to land, he may have throttled back – and at that point, it takes a while for the turbines in a jet engine to spool up (that’s one difference between turbine engines and piston engines – with piston engines in an airplane, you can get power pretty fast).

    If he was landing without an active Instrument Landing System at the airport, and there was no beacon light (as is customary at airports – the spinning green and white lights), then he had to be relying on 1) charts – we don’t know what kind, but that is really, really risky in fog, or 2) some other type of marker beacon, but we don’t know if there was one that was operational.

    To do an instrument landing with just a radio beacon, there is a specific instrument procedure, which relies on identifying the beacon with Morse code, and flying to the beacon, and then in a specific timed pattern, with specific descent rate, until you “break out” – meaning get below the cloud layer – to the airport.

    It’s a non-precision approach – but if you’ve done everything right, you break out and should see the runway straight ahead.

    The ILS is a precision approach, because not only does it align you with the runway, it also gives you a glideslope – that is, a rate of descent to be above all obstacles.

    Even on a non-precision approach, you do a specific descent rate, as specified in aviation charts, which is designed to keep you above all obstacles.

    A jet pilot flying this type of aircraft would easily have been able to do either type of approach.

    But it’s the land-based air controllers that have to give you the correct readout, or setting for your altimeter.

    If they give you the wrong setting, and you set your altimeter to that wrong setting, then you are going to be higher or lower above ground level than you really are.

    There are some altimeters that are not air pressure-based, but are radar based – but I don’t know if this jet had one of those.

    I find it incredibly surprising that a jet of this type, with an experienced pilot, would have been that low, short of the runway.

    Still need to know where the runway was in relation to their approach path.

  52. Oh, and in case anyone is wondering – I don’t claim to be an expert aviation accident reconstruction expert, but I do have an instrument rating, and some experience with aircraft – piston and turbine.

  53. Correction – that should have said:

    If they give you the wrong altimeter setting, then you are going to be higher or lower above ground level than you think you are, based on the incorrect readout in the cockpit due to the incorrect setting.

    So if you think that you are at 500 feet above ground level, but due to an incorrect altimeter setting you are actually only 100 feet above the ground, and you are in some bad weather – well, not a good thing to happen.

  54. Elmer,

    When they clipped a 10′ sapling in the middle of an open field, I think we can all agree that they knew they had to climb.

    They could not climb the simple 30′ needed to clear larger trees a qtr mile away and that is the crux of the problem.

    It is not fog and it is not pilot error.

  55. Hi Elmer:

    I have an instrument rating also. I doubt that the Russians had a functioning ILS at this airport (if they had any navigation aids at all).

    All in all a deadly situation with fog and no close by alternate.

    An American accident investigation professional said they made many approachs and had to go around on each one. This tells me that the pilot had no where else to go and absolutely had to try to land.

  56. Ron,

    there was only one approach and the jet had redundant GPS – plus it when it hit the sapling in the middle of a field, it had all the data it needed to know it had to climb – but it could not.

  57. bmc:

    Your facts are wrong. Also hitting a sapling is already a non-rcoverable crash.

    I can see that you have not flown an aircraft let alone have advanced flight ratings like Elmer and myself.

  58. FSB put a false beacon, which strongly deviated the aircraft from the landing course on the landing strip. In accordance with false indications of the beacon, the plane lost altitude, and pilot was late to see where the beacon led him.

    The plane touched the tops of trees and crashed. The pilot flew to the left side of the begining of the runway and could not have been positioned to land on the runway.

    Three aircraft landed at the Smolensk airport on that day. The first, Yak-40, with journalists safely landed 45 minutes before the accident. A mysterious IL-76 appeared after it, which made four circles over the airfield and flew away. It was on that very plane that the operation of the false beacon has been checked.

    FSB sources reporting to Prime Minister Putin to have been a “successful decapitation” of that Nation’s leadership putting into power the speaker of Poland’s parliament and a former defense minister Bronislaw Komorowski who unlike Kaczynski has been a long time ally of Moscow”.

    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/18/11870.shtml

    Polish news agency published a suggestive photo of Russian murderers of the Polish President under the headline “The military replace lighting few hours after the crash of the Tu-154M from Poland”.

    • Fascinating story, but as a source Kavkazcenter, with all due respect, should be taken with a grain of salt, the people that run in have their own agenda.

      Like I said elsewhere I do believe Putin is capable of murder, but killing not just Kachinsky but the whole polish leadership, imho that’s a bit too much even for Putin to have masterminded such a devious plan.

      Anyway, I just tried accessing kavkaz center and for some reason couldn’t do it, I can’t even ping it, I wonder if it’s because I’m in Russia and they’re blocking it. I was able to access it from here a couple of months ago though.

      • Yea, Kavkazcenter is like all of Russia’s neighbors that are continuing to experience Russia directly and have a common story to tell, but mostly trying to get themselves free of Moscow’s tentacles.

        So what possible motive could K.C. have other than to speak truth to power? Discrediting themselves would work against them, as far as the true liars with nothing to lose, have been the Russians for centuries. So badly have Russia’s Leadership made things up, that now ordinary Muziks want to believe anything themselves.

        Meaning no disrespect for the Genuine Human beings that are interested in truth and justice, so we can all get on with our lives in harmony. Yulia Latyanina in the Moscow times also thinks the story is fishy. I hope they won’t kill her next.

        • Far as I know KC is run by people who originally wanted to have control over Chechnya but got driven out of there by the Kadyrovs, who used a more devious approach that involved first publicly siding with the Kremlin and them giving the Moscow gang the proverbial finger. But the point is that Udugov et al, they’re not really interested in the truth or human rights or any of that stuff, they’re just sore losers engaged in a black PR campaign against Russia. If the truth serves their purposes they’ll use it, but some of the stuff they publish their website is plain pathetic, like reports by some mujahedeen that call in from a mobile phone and tell them how they got ambushed by some infidels and their corroborators but managed to fight them off without a single casualty or some such stuff.
          One thing that sort of raises kavkazcenter’s rating for me is the fact they’re now being blocked in Russia (you can still get to their site through proxy servers, naturally), so that probably means they do have some valid info on there that Moscow doesn’t want its citizens to know about. But in general with regard to kavkazcenter it’s an example of Lenin’s contention that there is no such thing as free press. At the end of the day every media outlet has an agenda. Looks like larussophobe’s agenda is to provide a place for people to vent their hatred towards and frustration with Russia, and it has to be admitted that to a large extent these hatred and frustration are well deserved.

          Btw an interesting fact: for almost a whole week after the crash there was a persistent rumor in Smolensk that shortly after the crash an EMERCOM truck rammed a local minibus with some 12 passengers, causing it to roll and blow up in flames, and that another ‘federal’ vehicle rammed a private SUV. The local authorities later stated this had never happened. You know thinking about it, I figure it could be that the federals were ramming local vehicles trying to find whoever it was that filmed that video. I did get round to watching the version with comments, finally, the one that’s linked to on kavkazcenter, if that white thing in there is really a person raising a hand, then it’s pretty damning. Question is if it was all for real, why the FSBers that were finishing off the Poles simply told this guy to get lost, why didn’t they just shoot him as well.

          • igorfazlyev,

            KC is run by the associated of Movladi Udugov, who have left Chechnya in 1999 for the Middle East just after the start of the 2nd Chechen war.

            Back then Ramzan was a nobody, just a driver for his dad and a murderer of 2 people (one in snooker match disagreement, one at a gas station also in scuffle, his daddy got him from the trouble the both times).

            • Btw Ramzan’s cousin/brother Ad (Adam Delimkhanov) and his second-in-command (and a State Duma deputy and Interpol’s international fugitive) was also a driver, but for Salman Raduyev (of the 1996 hostage drama fame).

  59. Ron, what is really puzzling is why the pilot was so short of the runway.

    “Get-there-itis” is nothing new, as you know. Get-there-itis is the pressure that pilots put on themselves, or that their passengers put on pilots, to land, despite adverse conditions.

    Some newspapers have already reported that he was not being pressured to land.

    I would expect that on a presidential flight like this, there would have been advance coordination and preparation on both sides, and certainly a professional pilot would have been prepared.

    I don’t know if this aircraft had EFIS (Electronic Flight Information Systems).

    If it had an encoding altimeter (which would have been tied in with the transponder), then its altitude readout would have been transmitted to Air Traffic Control, and Air Traffic Control should have warned the pilot of a low altitude problem.

    As you know, even non-precision approaches are designed with a glideslope that clears all obstacles on the descent path.

    Plus – I just can’t believe that a professional pilot, who should have been prepared in advance, with flight plan, charts, etc., would just “hunt and peck” for an airport.

    Another possibility is fuel shortage – but I would not expect that from a professional crew, flying a presidential jet, unless they had been unexpectedly diverted and had to fly a holding pattern for a while.

    It just doesn’t add up.

  60. Which brings to mind another thing – commercial airliners have low altitude warning systems on board.

    I’m wondering whether this aircraft had one of those.

  61. elmer,

    The other issue is that this crew went to this airport a week prior for a practice run and they encountered no problems. In addition, Putin had a mobile beacon installed to insure his safe landing but did not leave it for the Pres to use.

  62. RTR ,
    What a ” tupo lobyij ” Moskal you are .
    Aside from the fact , that lying comes as
    natural to you moskali , as breathing , you ,
    tend to be very thick sculled as well . to
    suggest that Ukrainian nationalists actually
    shot down the Polish plane has got to be the
    pinnacle of stupidity .
    To begin with , why would Ukrainians want
    to harm Pres ident Kaczynski , who was their
    friend and supporter ? He was also a kindred
    spirit as far as dealing with Moskva , Putkin
    and Dimunitive Dima , in short he did not like
    moskali and did not trust them , very much
    like the Ukrainians . As far as claiming that
    Ukrainians hate ” russians an Poles ” , you are
    only half right , Ukrainians hate russians .
    Ukrainians and Poles , have had a lot of bad blood between them , but good relations are
    constantly rebuild and with time old wounds
    will heal and normal relations will resume as between other civilized , cultured nations .
    Something the moskali , with their suspicious ,
    lying and treacherous psyche , cannot even
    phatom . That is what makes us different and
    sets us apart . You are still eating people .

  63. Blackminorcacapullets, if the pilot was looking for a beacon that wasn’t there, that could be one factor contributing to the crash.

    It looks like there was only an NDB installed at the airport. No ILS. The Wikimapia satellite photo shows a pretty ratty runway.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash#Technical_installations_at_Smolensk-North_air_base

    An NDB is simply a Non-Directional Beacon – it just emits a radio signal, but no radial or degree information, or altitude information.

    (A VOR sends out radial degree information on a 360 degree basis, which still doesn’t give you altitude, but it is more information than an NDB. Some VOR’s have DME, or Distance Measuring Equipment, which tells you how far you are from the VOR.)

    That means that the pilot necessarily had to use a non-precision NDB approach.

    That means that you start your timed approach to the runway, with a specific descent rate, in a specified pattern once you cross the NDB.

    There is an instrument on board – a needle – which simply “flips,” so you can tell if you have passed the NDB.

    However, it does not tell you which radial, or degree you are on – you have to calculate that separately.

    Here’s what’s interesting –
    Acccording to the Wikipedia report, the plane went below the glideslope when it increased its descent rate, and instructed the jet to abort.

    Question – how would the controllers know that the jet was beneath the glideslope?

    I don’t see any radar facilities on the Wikimapia satellite photo, and there’s no indication that there was any sort of radar.

    I have actually practiced radar approaches, where the controllers actually tell you what course to turn to, and what altitude to be at.

    In my experience, on a non-precision NDB approach, you’re pretty much on your own – the controllers in the tower simply control traffic on the ground, and they give departing traffic course and climbout instructions.

    The air traffic controllers in the tower should be able to give a correct local altimeter setting as well, so that the altitude read-out on the jet is correct (for an air pressure based altimeter).

    It just doesn’t make sense.

  64. Polish-German (Poznan-Berlin) information portal PolskaWeb. The portal writes:

    “The public is going to learn more details in connection with the crash of the plane with the President of Poland on 10 April. According to a report by the Rzeczpospolita the Polish presidential plane during their flight from Warsaw to Smolensk was not alone; it via a special GPS receiver was continuously monitored by the Polish military intelligence SKW (sluzba Kontrwywiadu Wojskowego).

    As the newspaper writes it is not yet known what information did the SKW get about the flight of death. But at least the most important flight parameters such as altitude, speed and location have been registered. Presumably they were permanently recording conversations of the pilots with other aircrafts and the control tower in Smolensk, the paper suggests.

    Poland’s military intelligence is an independent structure and does not fall within the competence of the prosecutor. They monitored the flight, because it is one of the Tupolev military planes.

    A few months ago Polskaweb had already drawn attention on the mysterious disappearance of a top-secret decryptor of this security services. That man has not yet been found. Russians or Chinese are thought to be the masterminds behind his disappearance. The intelligence specialist was a top secrets bearer of the Polish military and NATO.

    Polskaweb reported last Friday on the exchange of landing lights at the Smolensk airport by the Russian soldiers, less than an hour before the crash of the Tupolev and published photos of this action in its gallery.

    A Belarusian journalist (identity known) had shot this sensational photo. He also photographed the primitive ramshackle shed, as well as similar support legs.

    Other Polish media reported with many question marks about this strange action of the Russian military. The main issue here seems to be whether the transfer of the land through a targeted lighting in the pilots may have been misled.

    What is clear is the extent that the Russian by this action appears to have eliminated the evidence of this. There are a lot of such mysterious occurrences in connection with the crash of the Polish Tupolev at Smolensk.

    The only indication of an accident and against a possible terrorist attack on the presidential plane was the alleged cloud on the ground during the landing of the aircraft.

    This fog, however, none was able to prove in really. Even the responsible air traffic controller had this “nascent”, that is not already present, place the crew of the Todesjets reported.

    Despite this German and Russian media reported about disastrous weather conditions on the ground, and within a few hours after the crash blamed on air traffic controller for the accident.

    Polskaweb does not believe that the crew of Tu-154 is responsible for the tragedy.

    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/19/11876.shtml

  65. Elmer:

    More and more this crash looks suspicious. At first it looked like a series of adverse events that finally overwhelmed the pilots.

    I now believe it was not an accident.

  66. Ron,

    There are new rumors on the net that the photographer who took the “Shots Fired at Crash Site” has been stabbed. This is unsubstantiated but there is a new video that more clearly show people that laying on the ground but raising their arms.

    • the video is such poor quality (obviously filed using a mobile phone) that doesn’t show anything clearly. The only more or less clear thing in it is the sound, first the siren (fire truck) then somebody yelling at the photographer to get lost, then shots. I just watched it twice, I was able to see the people moving through the trees in the distance, but as for the guy in white who raises his hand, sorry, that white patch in the video could be anything, plus the camera is shaking like crazy, so that even in the zoomed version I wasn’t able to make out much there. The shots are there though. The dude that jumps out of the plane and then falls, supposedly shot, well I don’t know I wasn’t able to actually see much there in the video either. Nice comments though and the shots are definitely ominous. I don’t think this video would stand up in court as evidence that the survivors of the crash were being finished off, and yest as conspiracy theory material it’s pretty good stuff. And as we all know sometimes the craziest conspiracy theories prove to be the closest to the truth.

    • It is quite interesting that some people can clearly see “rescuers”, “whores”, “pilots”, “stabbings”, “crawlers”, Martians and even Bigfoot in this video. I can’t discern any humans in this video at all. All I can see is the forest, the fog and the burning remains of the airplane. And all I can hear is the conversation between a man (whom the others call “Father”), a woman and a child, with the man expressing astonishment at the site of the crash, and the woman and the child telling the man to get back.

      Am I blind? Can any sane readers here clearly see any live human beings in this video? At what time points?

  67. An eyewitness who was walking his dog said visibility was about 150 meters because of fog.

  68. There are some really astonishingly puzzling things here.

    Two stand out to me – how could the pilot have been so low over the ground, and how could he have been so far short of the runway?

    Pilot error is not unknown as far as ATP (Airline Transport Pilots) or commercial pilots are concerned.

    But to be that low, low enough to clip a short tree, that far short of the runway, is – well, it is astoundingly puzzling.

    It’s very easy to determine whether a piston engine plane was developing power when it crashed – one of the things you can look for is “Q-tip” props – propellers.

    That is, the propeller is bent, indicating that it was turning (developing power).

    That’s just one indicator.

    I’m not sure how anyone could tell that the turbine engine was not developing power just from that particular picture.

    There are other ways to determine that.

    I don’t know what kind of aviation accident investigation procedures exist in Russia.

    In other countries, agencies send out knowledgeable and experienced experts to piece things together. These are open and above-board proceedings – in countries other than Russia.

    Again – not sure what procedures there are in Russia. One would think that they would let Polish experts in.

    From what I’ve seen so far, this accident makes sense only if the pilot was getting false readouts from a) altimeter and b) false signals from an NDB.

    So far, this just doesn’t add up. The accident just doesn’t make sense.

    It just doesn’t make sense.

    Ron – if you’re reading this, what do you think?

  69. Elmer:

    I have listened more carefully to the eyewitness comments from the man who was walking his dog and he said visibility was 50 meters in fog (not 150 meters). This proves the fog was a significant factor in the accident.

    One week before the crew had flown into this airport on a practice run and everything went OK. This shows the crew was ready and cautious.

    I assume they had GPS which should have put them right on target (including altitude) since the week before they had the opportunity to mark the runway exact. If it had been me (in hindsight) I would have marked both ends of the runway with GPS which would have nailed it very well for the approach.

    Reports of soldiers working on runway lights is puzzling.

    Three boys who saw the crash said there was not a lot of fire (but lots of blood) and no explosions suggesting the aircraft was low on fuel.

    That’s all I have at this time. I do not know what to think.

    • The visibility was 50 meters? So, if the plane was traveling at, say, 360 km/hr (or 220 mph), then it was traveling at 100 meters per second. With visibility of 50 meters, it takes half a second between the time you first see a tree and the time you hit it. Half a second – that’s not much time to react, is it?

      What fool would try to land in a 50 meter fog? Why didn’t he fly to the big cities of Moscow or Minsk, as he was told?

      Thank god, the European airports were closed after the Icelandic volcano erupted. Otherwise, we would have seen hundreds of crashes.

  70. Ooooh irreplaceable Elmer, the typical “i know it all” Ukrainian genious…

    “In other countries, agencies send out knowledgeable and experienced experts to piece things together. These are open and above-board proceedings – in countries other than Russia.

    Again – not sure what procedures there are in Russia. One would think that they would let Polish experts in.”

    Elmer, when you don’t KNOW a subject, study before making statement. Your credibility is stake.

    Ever heard of CFIT? Controlled flight into terrain?

    Were you on board that plane? No. It is a FACT the captain on the Polish TU was the copilot on the infamous Tbilisi flight. Infamous because Kacynski tried to force the captain to land in unsafe conditions and this with three other heads of state on board. He tried to punish this captain for doing his job honestly. This pilot went into a serious depression after this event.

    These kind of event put the pilots under psychological pressure to “go below the minimums”.

    A polish CASA crashed two years ago in the same conditions.

    Elmer, Ukraine has a bright future with idiots like you claiming to know it all.

  71. The videos clearly show that visibility was 500 to 100m. Also, the boys testified that they clearly saw the plane during its approach – that means the pilots saw the ground during the approach.

  72. Mike2 – another little sovok smart-aleck.

    I don’t have to be on board a plane to know that something went terribly wrong on an approach.

    Aviation experts don’t have to be on board a plane when they reconstruct the accident and determine what went wrong.

    There is no such acronym as “CFIT.”

    When a pilot misses an approach as badly as this pilot did, you start looking for various factors – visibility, mechanical failures (such as fuel shortage or engine malfunction), false instrument readout, malfunctioning instrument approach equipment on the ground, and, yes, any indications of the pilot’s condition.

    People should be pleased if Russia has an open and above-board agency which is capable of running an open and above-board accident investigation.

    By the way, volcanic ash is not a visibility problem – it is an engine problem.

    If you clog a piston or turbine engine with volcanic ash, it doesn’t run very well.

    Putz.

    • elmer elmer eeelmeer!

      Volcanic ash CAN be a visibility problem too. Why? Because it acts like sand on glass, a good sanding of the windscreens. This of course in high concentrations of ppm. As you know everything, it is not necessary to explain to you what ppm means.

  73. RTR excellant calculation which shows how deadly fog is. No crew lands in fog unless there is no alternative which is why I talk about fuel reserves.

    Also if you are not an instrument rated pilot you cannot know how disorientating it is to suddenly enter cloud. Fog (cloud) from inside an aircraft is totally different than standing on the ground in safety. Pilots who enter cloud immediately conscentrate on flying hard instruments.

    You guys who think Elmer talks funny should try flying an aircraft at night in weather and then you will start talking just like Elmer.

    Above I talk about marking both ends of a runway with GPS. Actually I have never marked both ends of a runway.

    BMC The crash caused heat which cleared the fog. Also fog comes and goes. This witness was very clear about the fog.

  74. “The crash caused heat which cleared the fog. Also fog comes and goes. This witness was very clear about the fog.”

    Which witness, the man or the dog?

    BTW, the visibility is much greater in the video when the camera pans away from the smoke. It must be nearly 1000m. It is quite plain for anyone to see at :45

  75. Mike2 ,
    Why the anti- Ukrainian comments ? Why can’t you just stick to the subject ? Were you beaten
    up by a Ukrainian kid and had your lunch money
    taken away ? Sopliak !

    • My comments are actually pro-Ukrainian.

      The problem is, the country is destroyed by people who are led into believing they know it all – When in fact they are manipulated by Berezovsky and co who just happen to share a common ennemy.

      The sponsor of this website (Berezovsky) does not give a damn about Ukrainians who have the same complex relationship with Jews as Russians do. He just uses Ukrainians to feed his hate that comes from being alive thanks to the hospitality (true, with conditions) of the Russians. Without the Russians he might not be alive today as his ancestors fled the middle-east from the Arabs.

      Ukrainians will have a bright future when they decide to switch their brains to the ON position, and not just go for any Moscow times produced rumour.

  76. Mike2, you remind me of “always wrong, never in doubt.”

    Volcanic ash can get into turbine engines, it can get into pitot tubes (pitot tubes are the tubes that stick out of the airplane for certain instruments – these days, air-based instruments are virtually back-ups on commercial airliners).

    One would have to be stupid enough to get very close to a volcano for there to be a visibility problem.

    Sounds like something that little rooskie sovoks would do readily.

    The crash in Smolensk still doesn’t add up.

    • Ok elmer, you are going under on this one. The crash does not add up in your head because you CONSIDER to be so smart.

      It may come as a surprize to you but an aircraft moves in an AIR MASS. That is, airspeed, air pressure, altimeters still work with info coming from “barometers”, fed by the pitot tubes. This info goes into the on-board computers. Essential info.

      The Air France crash above the Atlantic was due to disfunctional pitot tubes.

      Do me a favor: next time you step into an aircraft say to the pilot: “Hi, my name is elmer, am Ukrainian. These days, air-based instruments are virtually back-ups on commercial airliners”. Then observe his face.

      “One would have to be stupid enough to get very close to a volcano for there to be a visibility problem” It all depends on the ppm.

  77. The altimeter works off changes in atmospheric pressure sensed at the static port (which is a small hole on the side of the aircraft).

    Many aircraft have back-up static ports vented inside the cabin in order. That is an alternate source of ambient pressure, if the cabin is not pressurized.

    The altimeter does not work off the pitot tube.

    With radar, and other equipment, altitude information can actually be obtained from the ground.

    The airspeed indicator works off the ram pressure from the pitot head and the ambient pressure from the static port.

    Commerial airliners have more than one pitot tube, usually.

    Airspeed information can be obtained electronically in various ways, bypassing the pitot tube.

    Commercial airliners that are up to ICAO standards also might have Traffic Collision Avoidance Systems (TCAS), which are not dependent on pitot tubes, obviously.

    Commercial airliners invariably fly under Instrument Flight Rules, and are monitored by radar and other means by air traffic control.

    You have provided no links to the Air France crash.

    Volcanoes emit seriously poisonous gases, which add to the danger of getting close to volcanoes.

    The crash in Smolensk still doesn’t add up.

  78. elmer oh elmer. For starters…

    Try dialling “Air France pitot” on Google. The first link to show up is pretty good:

    http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/faulty-pitot-tubes-probably-would-have-made-doomed-a330-fly-too-fast/321/

    After reading this article, please explain your comments “air-based instruments are virtually back-ups on commercial airliners” Comments by elmer the Ukrainian genious.

  79. Looks like you digged hard into Wikipedia, your source of culture and fast food knowledge. Now you give other idiots on this website lessons about aviation.

    Sorry for being hard on you, but you deserve it. You share this attitude problem with your west ukrainian politicians.

    Out of nothing, they discover designer clothes, chauffeured limos and tv cameras. This with maybe reading one book is enough for some of these idiots to go for national politics.

    This fundamental attitude problem is te reason why Ukraine is going nowhere. Especially when the oranges were in power. “I am the smartest and any consequence of my acts is due to some foreign/other entity”.

  80. Elmer, your girlfriend has all the explanations.

    http://www.youtube.co/watch?v=LoUkobHYAlk

  81. Mike2, you really are an enormously stupid moron.

    First, the link you provided is a blog – not an official accident investigation site where results of accident investigations are posted.

    Not that you would know anything about official accident investigation reports – stupid little sovoks like you don’t know and don’t care about things like that.

    “Always wrong, never in doubt.”

    That’s a sovok.

    I’m obviously not going to bother to look at whatever other stupid links you cook up – it’s simply not worth it.

    In fact, the blog to which you linked, in your eternal sh*t for brains state, states as follows:

    “It’s not clear at this point if it’s procedural or something in the flight control logic.” While the Pitot tube theory tops the list of culprits, other causes such as lightening, structural breaches, mechanical failure and pilot error will all be scrutinized before a final conclusion is reached about the tragic end of Flight 447.”

    It’s a blog – not an official accident investigation site.

    Blogs can be useful – but not in this case.

    For example, in the US, the National Transportation Safety Board posts the results of its accident investigations. You can look up the results yourself.

    You clearly don’t know what you are talking about, because your previous posts showed a lack of knowledge about the functioning of altimeters versus airspeed indicators.

    Ron will tell you that any pilot who goes through instrument training will also go through training on false or erroneous instrument indictations.

    You, as a little rooskie sovok snake, try to BS and intimidate your way through everything. I can tell that your life sucks.

    And that you’ve got an absolutely horrible inferiority complex, because you constantly try to belittle everything Ukrainian.

    Yes, I had to read manuals and books in order to get my instrument rating – and it wasn’t Wikipedia.

    Back to the issue – the crash in Smolensk does not add up.

    Stick to something you know Mik2 – like licking Putler’s butt.

  82. Voice of Reason

    elmer wrote: “ Mike2 – another little sovok smart-aleck. There is no such acronym as “CFIT.”

    Elmer, I am no expert on avionics but even I am familiar with CFIT. Here is a large introductory Wiki article for you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFIT

    Controlled flight into terrain

    Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) describes an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, water, or an obstacle.[1] The pilots are generally unaware of the danger until it is too late.

    According to Boeing, CFIT “is a leading cause of airplane accidents involving the loss of life. There have been more than 9,000 deaths due to this since the beginning of the commercial jet age.”[1]
    ———————-

    Elmer continued: “Mike2, you really are an enormously stupid moron. The crash in Smolensk still doesn’t add up.

    Of course, it doesn’t add up to you, Elmer, because you know nothing about and air crashes and are not even familiar with the concept of CFIT, which happens to be the leading cause of fatal airplane accidents.

  83. Wow, elmer! If i were you i would stop writing on this thread because you just make it worse for you every time you write. But let’s use this opportunity to show our readers what an arrogant idiot you are.

    Elmer: “Yes, I had to read manuals and books in order to get my instrument rating”

    This means you have a pilot’s license? Because an instrument RATING comes on top of a license: Private pilots License with Instrument rating, or professional pilots license with instrument rating.

    So you got your instrument rating by reading books? Practise maybe? How many hours?

  84. Elmer,

    Have you noticed out russophile friends ignore the substance of this tragedy.

    That all the intitial spin was wrong – no 4 attempts, no thick fog, Putin removing the guidance system, shots fired during the rescue, an engine that was obviously not under power when it hit the ground.

    • Really strange was that there was a metallic object coming from the sky. It was loud and caught fire when it came in contact with the earth.

      Now they say that these metallic objects can carry people at incredible speed.

      Then Putin did magic tricks on this piece of metal. The village elders say that this Putin has powers we cannot imagine.

  85. At :33 thru :40 , there appears to be someone laying on the ground raising their arms?

    What happened to this person?

  86. Ok, let get over and done with this.

    “That means that the pilot necessarily had to use a non-precision NDB approach.That means that you start your timed approach to the runway, with a specific descent rate, in a specified pattern once you cross the NDB”

    THERE ARE ABOUT AS MANY TYPES OF APPROACHES AS THERE ARE AIRPORTS/NDB FACILITIES. ONE CAN USE TIMING, DME READING, VOR RADIAL CROSSING AND MORE TO DETERMINE YOUR DISTANCE FROM THE TOP OF DESCENT/POINT OF GO AROUND

    “There is an instrument on board – a needle – which simply “flips,” so you can tell if you have passed the NDB. However, it does not tell you which radial, or degree you are on – you have to calculate that separately”

    A PROFESSIONAL PILOT HAS NO PROB DETERMINING A RADIAL FROM AN NDB. ESPECIALLY BECAUSE BIG PLANES HAVE HSI’S. YES ELMER? WHAT IS AN HSI? YOU SHOULD KNOW AS YOU HAVE AN INSTRUMENT RATING

    “Question – how would the controllers know that the jet was beneath the glideslope? I don’t see any radar facilities on the Wikimapia satellite photo, and there’s no indication that there was any sort of radar”

    BY ASKING THE QUESTION “WHAT’S YOUR ALTITUDE?” FOR EXAMPLE. OR SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE IS A SECONDARY RADAR IN THE REGION. THIS KIND OF RADAR GETS ALTIMETER INFO DIRECTLY FROM THE TRANSPONDER. THE TRANSPONDER GETS THE HEIGHT INFO FROM WHAT YOU CALL “an irrelevant stanby instrument”.

    “I’m not sure how anyone could tell that the turbine engine was not developing power just from that particular picture”

    TRY SMASHING A VACUUM CLEANER WORKING AT FULL POWER ON THE GROUND. THEN LOOK AT THE TURBINE. THE SAME WITH JET ENGINES. ELMER, ON A NORMAL JET, HOW MANY SECONDS DO YOU NEED TO GO FROM 0% TO 100% POWER? JUST CURIOUS…

    “There is no such acronym as CFIT.”

    YOU FLEW PLANES AND DON’T KNOW THE MEANING OF CFIT? WOW.

    “air-based instruments are virtually back-ups on commercial airliners”

    THIS ONE IS THE CHERRY ON THE CAKE. LOT OF COMPUTERS ON A MODERN AIRCRAFT? BUT THEY COMPUTE GOOD OLD FASHIONED INFO COMING FROM OLD FASHIONED SENSORS (PITOT AMONG OTHERS). TRY FLYING AROUND ON AN A320 WITH A WRONG ALTIMETER SETTING. TELL THE CONTROLLER THAT YOU COME FROM UKRAINE AND THAT IN UKRAINE A PRESSURE-BASED ALTIMETER IS IRRELEVANT.

    “Many aircraft have back-up static ports vented inside the cabin in order. ”

    YEAH, WELL, MAYBE IN A PIPER CUB OR A CESSNA. AIRLINERS HAVE ALTERNATE STATIC PORTS ON THE FUSELAGE.

    “With radar, and other equipment, altitude information can actually be obtained from the ground.”

    IN SOME VERY SPECIAL CASES LIKE A PAR APPROACH. IN 99% OF THE TIME, YES, SECONDARY RADARS HAVE ALTITUDE INFO THAT COMES FROM THE TRANSPONDERS. THESE TRANSPONDERS GET THEIR ALTITUDE INFO FROM GOOD OLD PRESSURE MEASURING EQUIPMENT ON BOARD.

    “Airspeed information can be obtained electronically in various ways, bypassing the pitot tube”

    PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW. THIS WOULD BE A REVOLUTION IN AVIATION. ELMER THE GENIOUS.

    “Commercial airliners that are up to ICAO standards also might have Traffic Collision Avoidance Systems (TCAS), which are not dependent on pitot tubes, obviously.”

    YOUR PIPER CUB ALSO FLIES ACCORDING TO ICAO STANDARDS. TCAS IS A REQUIREMENT. TCAS GETS ALTITUDE INFO FROM THE TRANSPONDER WHICH IS ITSELF GETS ALTITUDE INFO DIRECTLY FROM THE GOOD OLD PRESSURE MEASURING SYSTEM.
    ELMER? IF YOU DON’T KNOW SOMETHING? JUST SHUT UP. THIS IS A FRIENDLY ADVICE.

    “Commercial airliners invariably fly under Instrument Flight Rules, and are monitored by radar and other means by air traffic control”

    FALSE

    “First, the link you provided is a blog – not an official accident investigation site where results of accident investigations are posted”

    IT IS AN ARTICLE WITH SOURCES LIKE MIT FOR EXAMPLE, CONTINUED WITH A DISCUSSION. HAVING TO WORK ON THE EDUCATION YOU OBVIOUSLY NOT ENJOY FROM YOUR PARENTS, I WILL IN DUE TIME GIVE YOU NUMEROUS EXAMPLES OF PITOT RELATED CRASHES, THIS ON MODERN AIRLINERS.

    “Ron will tell you that any pilot who goes through instrument training will also go through training on false or erroneous instrument indictations.”

    TRUE. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF INSTRUMENT FLYING. WHY? IT IS CHALLENGING TO DETECT AS IT IS ONE OF THE FEW FAILURES THAT DOES NOT COME WITH A WARNING. CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT? JUST CHECKING…

  87. Now back to politics.

    Elmer, ou flew some light aircraft at some point in your life and now you give lessons about aviation and the way jet aircraft/big airliners fly. You may have an impression to know something but your impression is not backed up by real knowledge. One may look up for info, but this is not deep knowledge.

    This is exactly the plight of west ukrainian politicians. They THINK they know because they know a bit about something. Look at the results after 5 years of orange rule.

    They piloted Ukraine by sight. They read a book or two about instrument flying. Anyone putting the finger on their lack of professionalism was an ennemy of the state.

  88. Mike2,

    If you are getting paid for this, I suggest you return last week’s check.

    Why do you refuse to answer what happened to the people that apparently survived this crash?

    Why does there appear to be shooting during the rescue?

    • @Why does there appear to be shooting during the rescue?

      If the sound is real here AND it’s really shooting, I guess it’s just the an usual case of the Russian retards in uniform shooting in the air again for whatever reason.

      I mean, just check THIS out. And mind you all the shooting here is by the Russian forces, because it was just a time bomb attack (and here I also wonder if all of this was actually in the air, maybe they also at shot each other or the “suspects” too). It’s even another president + a bunch of officialls, too, just the Russian ones:

  89. robert,

    What does this have to do with the allegation that the Russians were shooting Polish survivors – other than to confirm that Russians are not adverst to shooting people.

  90. Blackminorcapullets – yep, little rooskie sovoks’ SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is to throw in all sorts of irrelevant stuff, and to bluster and use lots of bombast.

    Really, Mike2, you don’t seem to be capable of carrying on a civil discussion.

    In typical sovok fashion, you simply bluster and blubber.

    “always wrong, never in doubt”

    I have experience all the way up to King Airs and private jets – no airliners.

    You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

    Latest example – your claim that a radial can be determined off an NDB by using an HSI.

    HSI’s don’t work off NDB’s – they work off VOR’s.

    NDB’s operate in a totally different frequency range from VOR’s.

    The Horizontal Situation Indicator simply superimposes a VOR display on a directional gyro.

    It is designed to eliminate the confusion of “reverse sensing.”

    You are right – a professional pilot should indeed be able to determine bearing to (or from) an NDB (which, unlike VOR’s, does not provide radial information).

    A simple ADF (Automatic Direction Finder) points to the station.

    One step up is an RMI, which integrates a DG card which rotates under the ADF needle – which is receiving a signal from an NDB.

    Commercial airlines invariably and of necessity fly IFR. You cannot possibly produce regulations to the contrary.

    If there was ground radar around Smolensk, then the air traffic controllers should have been talking to the pilot about his low altitude – which does not appear to be the case.

    There does not appear to be DME at this airport – which would only give the pilot slant range distance to the DME station.

    There does not appear to be a VORTAC at Smolensk – so no VOR approach was possible.

    The mystery still remains – how could the pilot been so low and so short of the runway in Smolensk on an NDB approach?

    How could he have missed so badly?

    • Oh elmer. I do have worries about your passengers. If you don’t mind, when you make an announcement, mention your name. And please, before ths flight so that informed people have time to leave the plane.

      “Latest example – your claim that a radial can be determined off an NDB by using an HSI”

      EASIEST THING TO DO: CIVILIZED AIRPLANES, NOT THE CROP DUSTERS YOU USED TO FLY, HAVE HSI’S WITH THE NDB NEEDLE IN THE HSI. SET THE COURSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW ON THE HSI AND FLY SO AS TO HAVE THE NDB NEEDLE ON THE HSI TRACK. VOR INFO IS IRRELEVANT AND MANY PILOTS PUT A PHANTOM FREQUENCY TO AVOID FALSE WARNINGS FROM THE VOR.

      SOME HSI HAVE AN NDB FUNCTION: THE NEEDLE GETS DIRECTIONS CONVERTED FROM THE NDB. NOT MUCH USED BECAUSE THE NEEDLE USUALLY FLUCTUATES.

      “Commercial airlines invariably and of necessity fly IFR. You cannot possibly produce regulations to the contrary”

      LUFTHANSA RECENTLY HAD VFR ONLY FLIGHTS IN GERMANY BECAUSE OF THE VOLCANO ASH

      STILL WAITING FOR YOUR EXPLANATION/ “Airspeed information can be obtained electronically in various ways, bypassing the pitot tube” HOW?

      STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER ON THIS ONE… “Ron will tell you that any pilot who goes through instrument training will also go through training on false or erroneous instrument indictations.”

      TRUE. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF INSTRUMENT FLYING. WHY? IT IS CHALLENGING TO DETECT AS IT IS ONE OF THE FEW FAILURES THAT DOES NOT COME WITH A WARNING. CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT? JUST CHECKING…

  91. The original spin on this story has been disproved and now the official report that was supervised by Putin has been delayed.

    More and more points to failure on the part of the Russian authorities… and the gun shots?!

  92. Mke@, you are still “always wrong and never in doubt”

    Flight Management Systems
    Inertial Navigation Systems
    GPS
    LORAN

    for speed as well as additional information (I’m not going to go into details with you)

    The HSI does not work off the NDB.

    What you seem to be talking about, but really don’t know about, is what’s called a flight director.

    NDB’s and VOR’s do not have the same frequency ranges.

    NDB’s are relatively simple and cheap, but they have short signal range.

    VOR’s are used for airways on specific radials when flying IFR.

    If the pilot is using a flight director in the correct mode, the pilot can indeed track a VOR radial.

    As far as Lufthansa, you have failed to provide any links – again.

    There is no way that Lufthansa or any other commercial airliner would fly VFR for commercial flights – it just doesn’t happen.

    Blackminorcapullets – normally, in international situations like this, countries cooperate in flight accident investigations.

    That includes full access to the wreckage, and public announcements of the progress of the investigation, including preliminary findings, even before any final reports.

    So far – only silence in Russia.

  93. “So far – only silence in Russia.”

    Not true – within minutes of the crash they had already determined that it was the pilot’s fault ;-)

  94. Still giving lessons about things you only know superficially.

    “Flight Management Systems, Inertial Navigation Systems, GPS, LORAN” for speed as well as additional information (I’m not going to go into details with you)”

    WELL, ELMER? WHAT KIND OF SPEED? I AM A BIT WORRIED ABOUT YOUR PASSENGERS. TRUE AIRSPEED? INDICATED AIRSPEED? CALIBRATED AIRSPEED? GROUNDSPEED? IT SEEMS YOU AVOID GOING INTO DETAILS MY FRIEND.

    IT USUALLY TAKES YEARS TO MAKE AN ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION

    ELMER? DID YOU REALLY CARRY PASSENGERS?

  95. Oh HSI and NDB. It seems scince fiction to you, but any airliner has HSI’S with NDB info INTEGRATED.

  96. Mike2

    “always wrong, never in doubt”

    show me any credible reference at all – anything credible at all – that demonstrates HSI’s “integrated” with NDB “info.”

    NDB are low frequency, low power radio beacons. They are useful for non-precision approaches. They are less expensive than VOR’s, so normally they will be located in outlying, less trafficked airports.

    Here’s a sample explanation from a flight training school:

    http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/hsi.htm

    also

    http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/nav/rad_nav_overview.htm

    Blackminorcapullets:

    Yep, I forgot about it – immediately blame it on pilot error.

    The news reports I’ve seen is that the investigation is over but that the Polish (and Russian) investigators are reviewing the data.

    I guess we’ll see.

  97. Jeez, you show me technology from the 80’s. Ever heard of EFIS? Electronic Flight Instrument Systems?

    Basically the difference between your stuff and this is like old landlines and smartphones.

  98. I am also very curious, why TAWS Terrain awareness and warning system, didn’t react, when the plane was so low.

  99. TAWS is muted when the aircraft makes an approach for landing. Otherwise it would scream at every landing.
    To make it simple, the pilots or the FMS “tells” the TAWS to shut up because they have the intention to land.

    But ask Elmer, apparently he read books about instrument flying and knows everything.

  100. There is some information that the black boxes record that the TAWS did issue a warning prior to the first tree being brushed.

  101. … contination of the above…

    a non-precision approach.
    TAWS is usually automatically disabled when a precision approach is flown (ILS etc). A non-precision approach, is a pain in the ass, workload high etc. Unusual steps like disabling TAWS can be easily forgotten.
    The thing screams once, the pilots then mute it.

    But let’s wait for elmer, he is the brains here and an authority when it comes to complex matters.

  102. There are also reports that the control tower also contributed to the crash

  103. From a Polish view:

    • Voice of Reason

      This lady – Jane Burgermeister – is a well-known Irish-Austrian kook, who invents and chases conspiracy theories.

      Here she claims that she has been talking to the local Polish people about their views on the accident. However, if you listen to how she pronounces the name of the dead president Kaczinski, she says “KaZinski” instead of “KaCHinski”, which means that she has never heard a Pole pronounce his name. In fact, she is probably the only person in the World who doesn’t know the proper pronunciation.

      Among crazy conspiracies that she shares with us on this video, my favorite comes at 6:10, where she says that “the absence of bodies” is due to the fact that there were no political and business leaders on that plane. Instead, all 100 or so of them had been gunned down and/or kidnapped in the streets of Warsaw. I wonder who could have easily kidnapped 100 different people in different parts of Warsaw without causing and suspicion. Martians? And if these people were kidnapped, where in Warsaw are they kept, and is President Kaczinski among these kidnapped people? If so – let’s just pay the ransom and get him released. :-)

  104. Polish experts want swift declassification of Katyn files

    http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/65974/

  105. I just wrote about some of the facts and the questions here:

    https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/may-12-2010-contents-2/#comments

    • Voice of Reason

      This Washington Times article is a perfect example of the propagandist nature of the Western media.

      It claims that the “Russians are suspected of recovering top secret NATO code”. But what evidence do they have for these “suspicions”? None.

      The logic goes like this. Kaczinski was the President of Poland. Poland is in NATO. Thus, there may have been some secret codes stored on some disk somewhere. Since the pieces of the plane are now in Russia, the Russians must have found these codes, understood what they mean and “compromised” NATO security.

      And how damaging such a recover would have been? Well, just in case, NATO changed the codes. Big deal. You should change codes once every day anyway.

  106. From your link:

    Other Polish and NATO secrets also were believed to be aboard the jet, and so far Russia’s government is refusing to cooperate fully with Poland’s government in providing details on the cause of the crash, or even to turn over the Polish jet’s black boxes.

    Additionally, Poland’s interim government has not pressed the Russians for answers to questions about the crash, such as why Russian aviation authorities, without any investigation, ruled that pilot error caused the crash minutes after the jet crashed short of the runway in fog at Russia’s Smolensk airport. Polish security and aviation authorities also were denied access to the crash site.

  107. Subject: Veracity of Russian testimony – Nuremburg

    With the John Demianiuk trial still continuing, and being based almost entirely on Soviet evidence, it is instructive to note that the transcripts of the Nuremburg Trial contain Russian testimony attributing the Katyn Massacre to the Germans. (see page 424 to 427 at

    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-14-46.asp

    or note items highlighted in red in the attached) Today even Russia admits that it was Soviet authorities that were responsible for the massacre.

    Looks like the prosecution of both trials has a bit of trouble with the ninth commandment.

    • @”3. Mass shootings of Polish prisoners of war in Katyn Forest were carried out by German military organizations disguised under the specific name, ‘Staff 537, Engineer Construction Battalion,’ commanded by Oberleutnant Arnes and his colleagues, Oberleutnant Rex and Leutnant Hott.”

      LES,

      It was not only their (failed) attempt at Nurnberg. They actually executed a number of German officers “for this”. Some of them were publicily hanged and then their corpses were left at the gallows for many days.

      And morever, they even tortured one man into “confessing” “in detail” at his show trial to the “nightmare deeds” they have done themselves:
      http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=8744&sid=6a88cda3e7c2124d431eaf43747e3b5e

      The Katyn so-called “trials” took place in 1945-46.

  108. Lmao. This post should tell everyone exactly how credible this laughable blog is.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s