PHOTO: Vladimir Putin’s worst Nightmare!

Source:  Oleg Panfilov on Facebook.

74 responses to “PHOTO: Vladimir Putin’s worst Nightmare!

  1. Bravo! Nice photo.

    Especially glass wall behind, so opposite of Kremlin bloody palaces.

    God bless Georgia, I always loved georgians and no wonder they were among the first to find their national pride and will to build modern state.

    It’s easy to see that in the near future Georgia will open its doors to thousand of Russian refugees running away from Russian repressions by Kadyrov like government. Whole Russia becomes more and more like Chechnia. Kadyrov “way of governing” now rules the whole Russia.

    Georgia is such a strike contrast!

    • I also always loved Georgians, but I don’t like Saakashvili. He is a mutant.

      • He is free. Of couse he is “mutant” for you, look at your nickname.

        • He is free — most of all free of sane logical thinking. He is a mutant for all people who are not poisoned by hatred (unfortunately, there are not many at this blog). Even the recent story with “Imedi’s” fake report says a lot about his paranoia: if you don’t have Russian attack (too bad for a psycho), then … you should simply model it at the TV! After all, none of serious today political leaders (from the EU leaders to Obama) are ready to meet or even to talk to this provocateur. As a result, he can only enjoy meeting loser freaks like Kasparov or McCain. He even recently employed lobbyists in US to somehow repair contacts in the US, but this will not help him, as his insanity is now obvious.

    • Very nice ties on the photo, Saakashvili will definitely have both of them for dinner. But I couldn’t realize why is it “Putin’s worst nightmare”. I’d call this “Two pets of G.W. Bush”.

      • Well better a tie eater than that child molester Putin……

        • “child molester Putin” is something new, explain please. Too much heroine today, Andrew?

          • No, you remember this?

            • Ouch. Your big mouth really got you in trouble this time, Archi. Do you really prefer a president who licks the bellies of strange little boys to one who chews his tie? If so, you’re truly sick.

            • Give me a break! Many Russians, Italians and Greeks kiss (not lick, you sick pervert LR lady) their sons or other kids in their little bellies just to show their DEEP FATHER OR MOTHER LOVE or just LOVE TO KIDS. See absolutely NOTHING wrong (no sexual context) in this movie — perhaps Putin found this little fellow so sweet that he couldn’t refrain to hiss him. It maybe a cultural shock for cold-blooded WASPs in the US or Western Europe (who rarely kiss their own kids or show them their love) — that’s why such a ridiculous interpretation.

              • Please provide an example of the Greek or Italian head of state lifting the shirt of a strange boy in public (without getting the permission of his parent) and kissing his stomach.

                Otherwise, please cease your outrageous lies.

                • Why should I? If such an example will be found, would you change your mind? I doubt that, as your way of thinking is binary.

                  “Otherwise, please cease your outrageous lies.”

                  The biggest shameless liar at this blog is you.

                  LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                  If you cannot follow the rules of this blog, you cannot comment here. You are banned.

  2. Does anyone know good book about Rose Revolution in Georgia?

    (Archi Gulag, Dino, RTR, etc – this personal question is NOT to you, so don’t comment on it please)

  3. Does anyone know a good book about how the notorious American KKK leader David Duke received his PhD from the largest private university in Ukraine for his anti-semitic dissertation?

    (Bohdan, Georg, Alex, etc – this personal question is NOT to you, so don’t comment on it please)


    Did you know we’ve already written about how Duke is a big fan of Putin?

    So you condemn Putin, right, because Putin has said nothing to disown Duke’s praise?

    • Ah the good old Russian change the subject trick.

      Well RTR, it was a private university, and the foreign minister of Ukraine at the time did protest strongly and condemn the award of the PhD.

    • However the Russian government seems to like the vile Mr Duke…..

      “Jewish Supremacism
      In 2002, Duke traveled to Eastern Europe to promote his book, Jewish Supremacism: My Awakening on the Jewish Question in Russia in 2003. The book purports to “examine and document elements of ethnic supremacism that have existed in the Jewish community from historical to modern times.”[78] The book is dedicated to Israel Shahak, a critical author of what Shahak saw as supremacist religious teachings in Jewish culture. Former Boris Yeltsin administration official and prominent far-right politician Boris Mironov wrote an introduction for the Russian edition, called “The Jewish Question Through the Eyes of an American.”
      The ADL office in Moscow urged the Moscow prosecutor to open an investigation of Mironov. The ADL office initiated a letter from a prominent Duma member to Russia’s Prosecutor General Vladimir Ustinov, urging a criminal case be opened against the author and the Russian publisher of Duke’s book. The letter by Alexander Fedulov described the book as antisemitic and as violating Russian anti-hate crime laws.[79] In December 2001[?], Prosecutor’s office closed the investigation of Boris Mironov and Jewish Supremacism. In a public letter, Yury Biryukov, First Deputy of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation, stated that a socially-psychological examination, which was conducted as a part of the investigation, concluded that the book and the actions of Boris Mironov did not break Russian hate-crime laws.[80]
      Duke says his views had been “vindicated” with the publication of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt and said he was “surprised how excellent [the paper] is.” Duke dedicated several radio webcasts to the book and the authors comparing it to his work ‘Jewish Supremacism’ [81][82][83][84], although Walt has stated that, “I have always found Mr. Duke’s views reprehensible, and I am sorry he sees this article as consistent with his view of the world”.[85]
      While Duke says that his books “have become two of the two most influential and important books in the world.”[86] the ADL refer to the book as antisemitic [87], Duke denies the book is motivated by antisemitism.[88]
      At one time, the book was sold in the main lobby of the building of Russian State Duma (lower house of parliament). The first printing of 5,000 copies sold out in several weeks.
      In 2004, the book was published in the United States. Originally published in English and Russian, the book has subsequently been translated internationally into Swedish, Ukrainian, Persian, Hungarian and most recently, Spanish.[86]
      In 2007, an updated edition was published[89] which Duke purports to be a “fine quality hardback edition with full color dust jacket and it has a new index and a number of timely additions””

      Well, well, well, that vile book was sold in the lobby of the Russian Duma (parliament), and it sold out.

      Anti-semitic Russia, never changes….

      • Not really. Russia is one of the few countries in the world that does not suffer from over-the-top philo-Semitism and Jew-worship.

        That is why they do not have Zionists and Israelis dictating to them the foreign policy of their country.

        Apart from that fact, if Russia indeed is anti-Semitic, that cannot explain the top Russian billionaires who are Jewish, and the Jewish oligarchs who robbed Russia in the 1990s.

        • You should make up your mind. First you say that Russia is one of the few countries that is not controlled by Jews/”Zionists”, then in the next sentence you say that Russia’s billionaire oligarchs (i.e. the people who own everything) are Jewish. Are you Ukrainian? You sound as smart and logical as the Ukrainian Nazi commenters on this blog.

          • He is basically right, let me put in this form. Under Putin and Medvedev, oligarkhs do not control anything anymore, contrary to Eltsin times, but indeed many of them are Jews.

  4. There is a nice interview with Mr. Saakashvili on this website where he shows presidential palace to Oleg Panfilov. Saakashvili is tall and free, no wonder he annoys lilli-Putin and Medvedev so much.

    Do you know what is the best quality of Mr Medevedev? He managed to be 2 cm smaller than Putin, which is not easy. Hitler was considered very small but Putin is smaller than Hitler and Medvedev is even smaller than Putin!

    • Tall and free, wow. Are you a heightist or you just like tall man for some other reasons? Putin is smaller then Hitler, but note that he is higher than Napoleon and Sarkozy. “Мал золотник да дорог”

  5. Oh Archi,

    It’s always about height and length for you isn’t it?

    Is there something you want to share with us?

    • Address your question to Alex, not to me.

      BTW, Wal (in German) is whale, so I guess know why you care about sizes so much.

  6. It’s absolutely marvelous that Kasparov would meet with a man who launched a criminal war against the people of South Ossetia, and almost destroyed Tskhinval in the process.

    Kasparov also seems to have no problem that Saakashvili is a zealous supporter of the US occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, even sending a contingent of 2,000 of his own troops to the former country.

    • Kasparov is happy to meet everybody who is an enemy of Putin, the rest doesn’t matter for him. Либераст он и в Африке либераст. Играл бы лучше в шахматы.

      • It only reinforces the old stereotype that Russian Jews have never been loyal to, much less had any love, for Russia.

        You’re quite right that he should go back to playing chess — he was rated over 2800 at his peak.

    • Actually the Georgians bombarded Tshkinvali for 3 hours, and as the IFFC report says, targetted military and government buildings (admittedly with Grads, which are not precision weapons), meanwhile the Russians bombarded Tshkinvali for 3 days, doing the vast overwhelming majority of damage, without regard to loss of civillian life.

      Then there is the deliberate destruction of Georgian villages both inside and outside the immediate conflict zone, the ethnic cleansing of the Georgian population, the looting of schools, hsopitals, robbing of banks etc.

  7. Oh, A. now I see you do have a soft spot for Ukraine, and you know now I even start feeling proud of my country, I mean can you imagine such an invisible, impoverished, not very big or luckily located land invoking a hatred this deep. Maybe be there has to be something about Ucrania after all, I can’t believe all of this is just because of Bugeac and Bucovina which just happened to become a part of our current territory, back then Ukrainians had no say on these issues and now we have just to deal with what we have legally, some of us may think that Przemysl, Chelm and Brest are historically ancient Ukrainian cities, some Poles may feel nostalgic about Lviw. That’s natural but that’s just history and being a HISTORY means to be over. There’s no such a thing as 100% justifiable, fair borders, never. And we can never be like ok, now we have everything which is ours and don’t have a single acre which belongs to someone else. Romanian city Galat and almost entire Moldova centuries ago belonged to Galician Kingdom so what? It doesn’t mean that rundown Ukrainian Army with axe-brandishing Banderian guerillas in the vanguard will once invade your country to “seize it back”. And whatever you think about Ukrainians you’ll be lucky if you find at least 20 people in the whole country, East, West whatever who would dream about “exploits” of the kind. Because it’s not about “historical justice”, that’s about our choice, either to leave the past behind, be nice to each other, accept what we have now or to look for reasons why should we hate one another, for me personally hate is just not fun.
    So I’d appereciate if you cut Ukraine some slack and at least stopped saying this stupid-like Ukrainian stuff. That’s up to you sure but IMHO your Ukraine-bashing is just plain not nice and uncool. At least it baffles me how can you preach PC to the backward Ukes and be so blatantly politically incorrect at the same time.
    Though you had the point having noticed that inconsistence. Really Jewish oligarchs control all Russian economy but Russia is one of the lucky few not cowtowing to the World Jewery. That’s some logic too profound and tricky for simple Ukrainians.

  8. And thank you Archi Gulag for you really brilliant comment. It’s just a shame that not all those RuSSia-lovers from the leftist liberal CAMP ;))) can read your witty remark Либераст он и в Африке либераст. It shows that fascist mentality is integral part of your kind’s way of thinking. Liberast is a very creative RuSSian coinage made of the words liberal+pederast. The logic is very simple: liberalism = homosexuality(pederasty)=corrupted America and its creatures=human rights=freedom=democracy.
    It always strikes me how come American liberal ranting against all those ignorant Republicans and Bible thumpers seem to view Russia as a bastion of real Enlightment, while in fact leaders of Christian Coalition would seem real gay-cuddling sweeties compared to the fiersly homophobic, anti-liberal Russian Nazis
    Quod erat demonstarndum

  9. Damien Thorn, take it easy. Let’s not hijack this thread with useless disputes (after all, the historical truth is crystal clear). I don’t “hate” Ukraine at all, I specified “Ukrainian Nazi” in reference to the, well, Ukrainian Nazi person(s) who post(s) here pretty often and who go(es) by the names LES/heorh/elmer etc, who has repeatedly polluted this blog with anti-Romanian xenophobia, anti-Semitism, Holocaust denial, and, interestingly enough, Stalinist-era propaganda. As for Moldavia being part of Galicia, lol, that’s funny, did they teach you that during Soviet days? That sounds like Soviet parallel history. Plus, what does Galicia have to do with Ukraine? Galicia historically belonged to Poland. The Ruthenians in Galicia didn’t even call themselves Ukrainians until after the emergence of the Soviet Union. And Ukraine is not “small” at all, it’s the biggest country in Europe, thanks to Stalin and Hitler.

    But when you start tot talk about “World Jewry” you start to sound like your Nazi compatriot.

    • The word ukraina is first recorded in the fifteenth-century Hypatian Codex of the twelfth and thirteenth-century Primary Chronicle, whose 1187 entry on the death of Prince Volodymyr of Pereyaslav says “The Ukraina groaned for him”, ѡ нем же Оукраина много постона (o nem že Ukraina mnogo postona).[1] The term is also mentioned for the years 1189, 1213, 1280, and 1282 for various East Slavic lands (for example, Galician Ukrayina, etc),[2

      Since the middle of the seventeenth century the modern name Ukraine (Ukrayina) (first found in the twelfth century chronicles) was used sporadically, until it was reintroduced in the nineteenth century by a conscious effort of several writers concerned about the awakening of the Ukrainian national awareness.[12] It was not until the twentieth century when the modern term “Ukraine” started to prevail while Little Russia gradually fell out of use.

      >> 1722 When the Austrian monarchy made Galicia a province in 1772, Habsburg officials ***REALIZED*** that the local East Slavic ***PEOPLE WERE DISTINCT*** from BOTH Poles AND Russians. Their own name for themselves, Rusyny, was similar in sound to the German term for Russians, Russen. Austria ADOPTED the ethnonym Ruthenen (Ruthenians), and continued to use it officially until the empire fell apart in 1918.

      Some 200 years ago and times prior to that, Ukrainians were usually referred to and known as rusyny (Ukrainian: русини, commonly translated as Ruthenians).

  10. And Damien, if you stick up for Holocaust deniers, use anti-Semitic language, and support ultra-nationalism (despite not being a Ukrainian, or even a Slav), why are you so keen on the EU and NATO? Your values seem deeply anchored in the Russian Orthodox chauvinistic tradition, don’t you feel more comfortable among people sharing your values?

  11. Oh, and I see some moron added a Nazi emblem as my avatar. I guess in somebody’s warped little world, speaking up against anti-Semitism, Holocaust denial and Soviet revisionism equals being a “Nazi”. More Ukrainian logic I guess.

    • @A. Wow, what a Champion Idiot. A fine example of “someone from below provoking someone from above”.

      The only one in this league to comparable is Archi Gulag who says that A. is right! Whom I thought was banned. But I needed the laugh.

      I love your avatar. I nearly fell off the chair. I was sure that it was A.’s doing and in keeping with his “Vision”. Please let him keep it. “His slobber should be his badge” (Dante’s inferno)

      • Yep, I’m sure you loved the avatar, since you’re a Nazi :) Were your parents/grandparents staffing Nazi death camps or doing the dirty work for the Soviets? Or both? :) Oh Georgie Georgie, it must be tough to have such a deep-seated inferiority complex like all Ukrainian nationalists seem to have.

    • Let’s be totally honest you Romanian lying piece of trash. Your beloved country, during WWII did the following – and I quote from Wikipedia – “in summer 1940, a series of territorial disputes were resolved unfavorably to Romania, resulting in the loss of most of the territory gained in the wake of World War I. This caused the popularity of Romania’s government to plummet, further reinforcing the fascist and military factions, who had eventually staged a coup that turned the country into a fascist dictatorship under conducător Ion Antonescu. The new regime has firmly set the country on the course towards the Axis camp, officially joining the Axis Powers on November 23, 1940. “When it’s a question of action against the Slavs, you can always count on Romania,” Antonescu stated ten days before the start of Operation Barbarossa.[1]

      As a member of the Axis, Romania joined the invasion of the Soviet Union on 22 June 1941, providing equipment and oil to Nazi Germany as well as committing more troops to the Eastern Front than all the other allies of Germany combined. Romanian forces played a large role during the fighting in Ukraine, Bessarabia, Stalingrad, and elsewhere. In addition, Romanian troops were responsible for the persecution and massacre of 280,000 to 380,000 Jews inside and outside of Romania, though most Jews living within Romanian borders survived the Holocaust, albeit under harsh conditions.[2]

      After the tide of war turned against the Axis, Romania was bombed by the Allies from 1943 onwards and invaded by advancing Soviet armies in 1944.[2] With popular support of Romania’s participation in the war faltering and German-Romanian fronts collapsing under Soviet onslaught, King Michael of Romania led a coup d’état, which deposed the Antonescu regime and put Romania on the side of the Allies for the remainder of the war.

      Despite this late association with the winning side, Greater Romania was largely dismantled, losing territory to Bulgaria and the Soviet Union, but gaining Northern Transylvania from Hungary. Approximately 370,000 Romanian soldiers were killed during the conflict.”

      And Wikipedia then goes on to state the following in regards to “Romania and the Holocaust
      Search Wikimedia Commons Wikimedia Commons has media related to: The Holocaust in Romania

      According to an international commission report released by the Romanian government in 2004, between 280,000 to 380,000 Jews in the territories of Bessarabia, Bukovina and Transnistria were systematically murdered by Antonescu’s regime.[5][6]

      Though much of the killing was done in war zone by Romanian troops, there were also substantial persecutions behind the front line. During the Iaşi pogrom of June 1941, over 12,000 Jews were massacred or killed slowly in trains traveling back and forth across the countryside.

      Half of the 320,000 Jews living in Bessarabia, Bukovina, and Dorohoi district in Romania were murdered within months of the entry of the country into the war during 1941. Even after the initial killings, Jews in Moldavia, Bukovina and Bessarabia were subject to frequent pogroms, and were concentrated into ghettos from which they were sent to concentration camps, including camps built and run by Romanians. The number of deaths in this area is not certain, but the lowest respectable estimates run to about 250,000 Jews (and 25,000 Roma) in these eastern regions, while 120,000 of Transylvania’s 150,000 Jews died at the hands of the Germans later in the war.

      Romanian soldiers also worked with the Einsatzkommandos, German killing squads, tasked with massacring Jews in conquered territories. Romanian troops were in large part responsible for the Odessa massacre, in which over 100,000 Jews were shot during the autumn of 1941.

      Nonetheless, most Jews living within the pre-Barbarossa borders survived the war, although they were subject to a wide range of harsh conditions, including forced labor, financial penalties, and discriminatory laws. Jewish property was nationalized.

      The report commissioned and accepted by the Romanian government in 2004 on the Holocaust concluded:

      Of all the allies of Nazi Germany, Romania bears responsibility for the deaths of more Jews than any country other than Germany itself. The murders committed in Iasi, Odessa, Bogdanovka, Domanovka, and Peciora, for example, were among the most hideous murders committed against Jews anywhere during the Holocaust. Romania committed genocide against the Jews. The survival of Jews in some parts of the country does not alter this reality.[6]”

      And you have the audacity to blame the Ukrainians, and et al; you fascist scum bag!!!

      Now go on, try and hide these fact of history.

      By the way I refuse to ask you what your father and/or relatives did during WWII, as it will most definitely be a lying fabrication like the rest of you.

      • Now look up “The Holocaust in Ukraine” article on wikipedia, moron. I never glorified Romanian war criminals (even though Romanian war crimes are dwarfed by Soviet and Ukrainian war crimes), you on the other hand keep denying Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust (almost 2 million Jews perished in what is now Ukraine) and glorifying Nazi war criminals Bandera and Shukhevic.

        I won’t respond to the xenophobic name-calling, I’ll just attribute that to your frustrations and perpetual inferiority complex of coming from an artificial country with no history, no culture, and no future.

  12. So A., defender against anti-Semitism, Holocaust denial and Soviet revisionism…

    You think it’s perfectly acceptable to denigrate Ukrainians as a whole in that sentence?

    • I’m not denigrating Ukrainians at all, I stated pretty clearly that I was referring strictly to the Ukrainian Nazi commenter(s) on this blog (I suspect it’s one person, since they all say the same things and use the same stupid buzzwords). You have a sample of anti-Semitism right here, with Damien’s “World Jewry” comment, and if you have the patience you can see several anti-Semitic, anti-Romanian, anti-Polish remarks from the Ukrainian commenter(s), as well as repeated Holocaust denial. And if you don’t have the patience to look at older blog posts, you can always ask LES/elmer/Bogdan etc what he thinks about Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust and in Soviet crimes, Ukrainian expansionism, or what he thinks about Ukraine’s neighbors and Ukrainian “Jewish oligarchs”

      • A. That was quite a mouthful. Ranting like this will not improve your credibility. You have to be a Rashan Speaker, the way you misspelled Bohdan. I would say probably a Romanian Hybrid in Trans Dniester without a job or girlfriend.

        Could you tell us more exactly who you really hate?

        • I agree: its very inconsiderate of A. to come to a hate site and not telling people whom exactly he hates.

        • Georgie boy, I don’t “hate” anyone, I just despise frustrated, mentally inbalanced people such as yourself, who try to make up for their own inadequacies by living in an ultra-nationalist fantasy land and spouting pathological hatred of the exact people who built your cities and civilized your ancestors (Poles, Romanians, Jews, Russians).

          And Bogdan IS the correct name, in all Slavic languages (I’m not sure if Ukrainian counts as a language, I don’t know if you can clame to have a language just by switching all the Gs in Russian to Hs), and the name exists even in non-Slavic countries (Romania and Hungary).

          But you’d probably love it in “Trans Dnestr” (Transnistria), the people there tend to be as uneducated and chauvinistic as you are.

          • A., Sorry, but its even more inconsiderate to come to a hate site and not to hate anyone, and I thought I was the only inconsiderate person here.

            • Fair enough. Some of the people here are very conscientious about the hating. Our little Ukrainian friend sees to hate everyone. Now he’s added Germans to the list. I have a guess why he has a grudge against Germans:

              Ukraine’s interior minister has offered to resign after being detained at Frankfurt airport after an altercation with police while apparently drunk.

              • Well, Elmer/Georg with his alternative spelling of names is quite widely known in the Ukrainian blogosphere. He was banned at several blogs, even some Ukrainian ones. I really think his problem is more grave than rabid nationalism. Its especially fascinating when Elmer starts discussing things with Georg and his other sock puppets. Sometimes it really seems he thinks he is several people.

                • Yeah I had a look and you’re right. I’ve seen some of the comments on Kiev Post, some of the stuff is completely delusional, like stating that Jews and Poles started World War II.

                  And I’ve also looked up Roman Shukhevic, the “Ukrainian hero”: it seems he was involved in many “heroic” deeds: terrorist activities against the legitimate Polish and Czechoslovak governments, massacring 80-100,000 Poles, doing the dirty work for the Nazis by participating in anti-Semitic pogroms and fighting the (Polish resistance force) Armia Krajowa etc. It’s shameful that a Ukrainian head of state rehabilitated Nazi scum like Shukhevic and Bandera.

                  • Soviet Chief Prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials Roman Rudenko, in his accusatory instruments against Nazi collaborators, did not mention Stepan Bandera or the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists despite, one can be certain, a definite agenda drafted in the Kremlin itself.

                    The preeminent Jewish historian on the Holocaust Raul Hilberg in his seminal work “The Destruction of the European Jews” does not mention Bandera or the OUN either.

                    Prosecutor Rudenko certainly had access to Soviet archives. Professor Hilberg based his work primarily on German archives. Jewish survivors’ eyewitness accounts were compiled by the Jewish Historical Institute in Krakow in 1945 immediately after the war with no impugning of Bandera and the OUN.

  13. Why don’t I help you Savokian “A’s”. What you fear(!) UKRANIAN INDEPENDENCE. The largest country in the center of Europe will become responsible to its own people and not to Maskal, German, Polish or Romanian aggression, dictating their lives.

    This is a nightmare for Pootin that is bigger than anything else…Ukrainian independence, and loss of influence over the region and not becoming a world power, just a warlord in a rashan swamp.

    KYIV — Former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko said he is concerned by talk of overturning his decrees awarding World War II-era nationalist leaders Stephan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych the Hero of Ukraine Order.

    Yushchenko spokeswoman Iryna Vannykova said in Kyiv that “politicians at the national level have begun some speculation around the ‘national memory’ that is provoking confrontation within society.”

    Yushchenko believes presidential decrees cannot be canceled without the agreement of the Constitutional Court and, therefore, any debate about his decrees should end.

    by: WEARY OF SLAVERY from: Canada
    An essential step in enslaving a people is to strip them of all their heroes, including not only Bandera and Shukhevych, but also Taras Shevchenko, as evidenced in the work of Kremlin stooge Oles Buzyna.

    Please see the comments section by our own. “Elmer” and other interesting, high minded contributors.

  14. Georgie, you’re such a funny little man that I can’t be angry with you. I especially like it how you call yourself “other interesting, high minded (sic) contributors”. You remind me of some of the chracters from Marina Lewycka’s books (a brilliant Ukrainian-British author whom you’ve probably never heard of).

    I would love it if Ukraine became independent from Russia, but then who would prop your already shoddy economy? Ukraine is already the poorest and most backward country in Europe (unless you count Kosovo as a country) by all indicators; how will you guys survive without Russian handouts? And I love it how you keep ranting about “Rasha”/”RoSSiya”, yet you love Russian imperialism when it suits your purposes (when they give you territories far more advanced than Ukraine, when they build your cities, your universities and your industry, and when they give you cheap gas).

    And the fact that once again you glorify Nazi war criminals only re-inforces the Nazi label I gave you.

    • You gave me no label, more like libel. Just rant some more till LR gets tired of you. You ain’t funny anymore. Where is your Romanian Nazi Avatar?

      I can’t imagine Rashan Handouts, since Moskali never gave anything good and just took things, other than poison. Holodomord removing food was another Rahan contribution.

      Giving away something that is not yours is not giving, especially when you can’t keep it. I have no more time to play with an idiot and must go.

      I will wait for LaRussophobe to catch up with you. A.

      • Well, I just told you what the “Rashans” gave you. They built most of your cities, your industry and your universities. They gave you the territories that Ukraine now brags about when trying to promote its tourism (Lwow, Transcarpathia, Northern Bucovina, Crimea etc) as a reward for being their obedient little servants. I don’t even know why you hate Russians so much, Ukraine is probably the only country in the world that should be grateful to Russia.

        And of course, like a snotty little kid you need to call for your mommy, larussophobe. I don’t understand why she hasn’t banned you yet, since she’s Jewish and I don’t know how she can tolerate a rabid anti-Semite. Maybe because you’re the blog’s little clown, and everybody makes fun of you.

    • A., are you an orphan?

      • Les, I see this question from you again and again? You ask it to pretty much everyone who disagrees with you. Could you please clarify what it means and why you think that so many people who come to this site are orphans?

  15. A. don’t you understand that “World Jewry” was used in a certain context, without meaning that this context is a part of my own discourse, I just forgot to use quotation marks because I was talking about 390842’s mindset about Jews, their role in big business in Russia and stuff, if inadvertently my use of these terms (again without meaning they are a part of my own worldview, so please no “Damien’s World Jewry”) offended somebody hear, I apologize. Period.
    As for Holocaust denial I don’t get it at all. Where in the world I said there’d been no Holocaust? If you were talking about someone else here, enlighten us on who was that bastard and what exactly he told. What you are talking about is just objection to the accusations that Ukrainians were among the major participants in it, especially talking about the Ukrainian national independence movement. Nobody claim there were no Ukrainian collaborators who participated in the genocide, but still it’s not something unique, anti-semitism was pretty common in Eastern Europe not to mention plain herdlike conformism, so not ONLY some Ukrainians took part in those crimes and role of Ukrainian collaborators didn’t differ much from the one of those from other occupied or allied countries. I wanted to name some of them but I don’t want to stirr more hostility. All interested can consult this page
    I mean wherever Germans ruled they found some sidekicks among the locals. And that’s sad. And though I guess that Germans here are the first to blame (not Ukrainians for instance), I agree with Jews that ALL European nations are guilty of Holocaust in this or that degree and owe them an apology, but I do DENY any SPECIAL guilt of Ukrainians different from the all-European guilt. So, if you want to know my own stand on Holocaust here it is in a nutshell: Holocaust or Sho’ah took place, it was masterminded and carried out by German Nazis with some active or passive participation of virtually all European nations. It was a terrible , atrocious and uncalled for act of genocide. But the question of the responsibility for Sho’ah is totally irrelevant to Ukrainian-Romanian or Ukrainian-Russian relations. Period.
    Also I’m not an anti-semite, not I’m-not-an-anti-semite-but-type but without any buts, though I must confess I AM a russophobe, not even because politically (not ETHNICALLY, but as a citizen of this country throughout centuries ruthlessly bullied by Russia) I’m Ukrainian, but first of all because as a liberal, globalist americanophile, west-oriented stickler for Enlightment, Reason, Progress and radical individualism I hate everything this country stands for.
    So here is my answer to your question. I don’t stick for Holocaust deniers, I used anti-Semite language just as a way to illustrate my opponents ideas, not to express my own ones and as to my support of ultra-nationalism… First, I don’t know Georg or elmer personally and am not their “biggest fan” to track all their posts word by word(like you seem to do), so I may be wrong but I doubt they are ULTRA-nationalists, but even if they are… remember what Winston Churchill said about his support of Stalinist SU he’d been a bitterest enemy of for decades: If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. So whoever they are since Ukrainian, Georgian, Ichkerian, Tajik nationalists, patriots or just regular human beings whose relatives and friends were killed and homes destroyed by the ruscists and thus wanting to fight back and bring the Monstrous Bear down; Russian democrats, gay people, followers of alternative spiritual paths, persecuted by the intolerant authorities whose values as you yourself very smartly put are “”deeply anchored in the Russian Orthodox chauvinistic tradition”; Russian Jewish oligarchs”;) thrown in jail or exiled by Putler I stick for them. Because unlike you I think big. And you think small, you can’t rise above your petty grudges against my country, while I think about our unity in containing the main threat to peace, democracy and freedom in the World, chief sponsor and protector of rogue-states and dictatorial regimes, expansionist and revisionist state, being a constant menace to virtually all its neigbors.
    So why do I want (badly) Ukraine to join NATO and EU? Because I do share your guys values, though I guess at the same time that you and especially Europeans have grown too relaxed, gone too soft. Most of you aren’t Crusaders any more, you forgot that Freedom isn’t just something to rant about but sometimes to fight for as well. But that’s a totally different issue.
    And if you think that all Ukrainians want to be with you just because we’re looking for better paid jobs in Germany or Italy or at least feel protected from Russians you are wrong . We want to belong, to make a difference to build a better new free and democratic world with you. We want to be proud that Ukrainians also take part in bringing peace and democracy to the remotest parts of the globe, putting an end to ignorance and oppression, we want to contribute not take something from you. And we want be independent not in a sense of isolated but belong to something both big and pushing humanity forward (not like RuSSia, also big but pulling backward)
    And I won’t comment on your profound knowledge of Ukrainian history. Ukraine(+ -Bielorus or Ruthenia Alba) = Ruthenia (Western Rus) as opposite to Russia or Muscovy (East). Don’t get into hair-splitting, yes Ukraine is just a conventionally picked up and accepted name covering several subethnic groups, the same way the term Romania covers Muntenians, Moldovans, Transylvanians (Ardeleans) and some other smaller groups as it’s put in a beatiful Romanian song “Cu totii eram regimente romane: Moldova, Muntenia, Ardeal …” So all of them sunt Romani. With Ukraine it’s the same at least almost.

  16. But I have a question to everybody, how can I set my own avatar here? Or somebody has to do it for me?

  17. Damien, I’m glad I was wrong about your “World Jewry” comment. I repeat, I have no “grudge” against your country, all my remarks were directed against a specific person, who, you have to admit, is an extremist. Georg/elmer denied Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust (and don’t tell me “all” Europeans were guilty of the Holocaust; Ukraine killed almost 2 million Jews, most of its Jewish population), glorifies Nazi scum like Bandera and Shukhevic, and has made racist anti-Romanian comments (and since you claim to be part Romanian, aren’t you bothered by this?)

    I think you might have a naive idea of what the EU means. The EU has nothing to do with “crusading” but with a set of political and economic principles. And things like minority rights and not glorifying war criminals (where Ukraine still lags behind) are sine qua nons of EU membership. How do you feel about the fact that ethnic minorities in Ukraine aren’t allowed to use their language even in areas where they are a majority? How do you feel about the fact that Cernauti, once a center of Romanian culture, doesn’t even have one Romanian high school, and the University of Cernauti (founded by the Austrians and built by the Romanians) doesn’t even have a Romanian section? How do you feel about the anti-Romanian paranoia fomented by Ukrainian nationalist politicians like Yulia Timoshenko and Sergey Tigipko (himself a Russified Romanian actually)?

    Or how do you feel about this:

    And lastly, Romanian isn’t a “conventionally picked term”. Moldavian, Muntenian, Transilvanian are regional terms, but the language was always called Romanian, and Muntenia/Wallachia was also called Tara Romaneasca (land of the Romanians). All Romanians speak the same language, while in Ukraine Slavic groups like the Hutsuls, Ruthenians and Bojkos, who had their own languages and cultures (I’ve been told Ruthenian and Hutsul are closer to Slovak than to Russian) were forced to declare themselves Ukrainian, especially since Soviet times.

  18. A hidden irony here is that Kasparov’s mother is Armenian, and Saakashvili persecutes Armenians for everything, the way Stalin persecuted Jews in his last years of life:


    October 1, 2006

    By: Zaal Anjaparidze

    Georgian Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili told a news conference on September 27 that for “months and years” the arrested military intelligence (GRU) operatives and their Georgian collaborators had been gathering sensitive economic, political, and military information, including developments in Georgia-NATO relations. Merabishvili said the group was planning “serious provocations,” but he did not provide details.

    According to him, GRU Colonel Anatoly Sinitsin directed the group from Yerevan, the capital of Armenia. In fact, most of the Georgian citizens under arrest are ethnic Armenians.

    • Well I don’t know RTR, how come the Armenian president gave the Georgian president the highest Armenian state award last year?

      Not to mention the fact that there is close cooperation between the Georgian and Armenian governments.

      Oh well RTR, you really should stop listening to Russian media, it’s not really very reliable.

  19. The similarity between Russophobia and anti-Semitism can be illustrated by the life of the Father of American Russophobia: James Vincent Forrestal, the first United States Secretary of Defense:

    James Vincent Forrestal (February 15, 1892 – May 22, 1949) was the last Cabinet-level United States Secretary of the Navy and the first United States Secretary of Defense.

    Critics characterize Forrestal as a mentally unhinged individual, a hysteric with deep anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish feelings. Forrestal himself maintained that he was being shadowed by “foreign men”, which some critics and authors quickly interpreted to mean either Soviet NKVD agents or proponents of Zionism.

    Author Arnold Rogow supported the theory that Forrestal committed suicide over fantasies of being chased by Zionist agents.

    In 1954, the Navy’s first supercarrier was named the USS Forrestal in his honor, as is the headquarters of the United States Department of Energy. He is also the namesake of the Forrestal Lecture Series at the United States Naval Academy, which brings prominent military and civilian leaders to speak to the Brigade of Midshipmen, and of the James Forrestal Campus of Princeton University, in Plainsboro, New Jersey.

    “The Russians are coming”

    “The Russians are coming” is a famous phrase attributed to United States Secretary of Defense James Forrestal in 1949. In full, it is supposed to be: “The Russians are coming. The Russians are coming. They’re right around. I’ve seen Russian soldiers.”

    The title of the movie “The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming” was inspired by this phrase.

  20. elmer, or Georg, or Bohdan, or whatever, is our real name G. Makohin? Anddoes this look familiar?
    elmer [Moderator] 1 week ago
    Maybe Foxman could “warn” all the Jewish oligarch thieves in Ukraine to stop pillaging and robbing Ukraine. Maybe Foxman could “warn” all the Jewish oligarchs in Russia to stop robbing and pillaging Russia. Maybe Foxman could warn Jewish oligarch criminal Simeon Mogilevich not to commit international crimes, and then hide out in Russia. That would go a very long way to actually implementing true democracy in Ukraine.

    • typo: I meant *your* name. For anybody interested, a quick google search can reveal more anti-Semitic and anti-Polish comments made by this clearly deranged person on several blogs.

  21. @A.

    You are foaming at the mouth again. The Kitchen Sink Approach won’t work here, and your hoping that some of this nonsense will stick.

    Nobody here should get away with this much name calling, and idiocy. This blog is getting to be a waste of time because of Nashi Morons. You could really be Putin’s Nightmare. Remember the topic? You have been warned.

  22. A. while talking about crusading I meant not just EU but also and first of all NATO. As for the EU, there are several reasons. The first is that soon small isolated or “neutral” nation-states have no future, only big markets can survive. After the new Iron Curtain which is already out there solidifies and becomes impenetrable, we’ll have nowhere to go to survive, but Russia and though you seem to be pushing Ukraine in this direction thinking it to be mentally closer to us than any European country, actually forging any kind of economic or political alliance with it would mean that in 30-40 years there will be Russia all over the territory which is now Ukraine, with no Hutsuls, Ruthenians and Bojkos who you care so much about. All of them will be assimilated and russified… Well though I might assume that in order to buy our neigbors’ silence Russia would agree to restore Versailles border on the West. I guess for them, and who knows even for you it’d mean very neat and convenient “final solution to Ukrainian question”, because thus they’d get rid of the most active and pro-European part of our society, i.e. Ruthenians and Bojkos who, maybe to your surprise, think of themselves as Ukrainians, and vote for those you view as “rabid Ukrainian Nazis”. By the way one of the founders of modern Ukrainian literature Ivan Franko was Bojko and called himself sometimes Ruthenian, sometimes Ukrainian, but regarded both Western and Eastern Ukrainians as one nation. And I have to say his works make one of the sources of Standard Ukrainian along with the ones by Shewchenko, at least I read them and understood everything seeing almost no difference from the pieces of Ukrainian writers from other regions, save few dialectal words. As to the spectacular discovery that Hucul and Ruthenian dialects are closer to Slovak then to Russian, it just makes me smile, because the reason is that pure unrussufied Ukrainian is closer to Slovak and even more to Polish, at least in lexics department, than to Russian and since the russification touched those regions the least, such difference is more visible. Well I’m not as dogmatic about it as you may suspect, I know that the line between dialect and separate language is conventional and nations themselves aren’t some eternal absolute entities, but just imaginary communities as Benedict Anderson put it and if not totally imaginary at least transient… But there are certain grounds for putting all these groups under the same Ukrainian (Ruthenian) roof. And however imaginary the communities are, the ideas they are based upon matter. Since Ukraine can’t but become a part of something bigger it has just 2 options EU or Russia, (unfortunately we can’t join NAFTA or even al-Jāmiʻa al-ʻArabiyya:))) and it’d be for us more than choice like “rich and prosperous” vs “poor and troubled” it’s a choice between the Light and the Darkness, Freedom and Tyranny, taking part in building New Democratic Superpower to become along with the US a leader of the Free World or a mere fodder for the restoration of Evil Empire.
    And as to those EU principles such as minority rights. I do feel really bad about the stuff you showed me but you especially since for me Ukrainian-Polish unity is one the most crucial issues for me. If you want my opinion the best solution for Ukrainians would be not to split the country the way you and Russians seem to intend to, but to restore Rzeczpospolita where Ukrainians would have equal rights with Poles including cultural and lingual rights, representation in the government and visbility. And maybe instead of giving Galicia and Volhyn to Poles , Bucovina and Bugeac to you with the rest engulfed by Russian bear maybe the opposite would be more productive for the western civilization: to give Russians just Sloboda, Donbass (Dumbass:)), Tauria (Azov coastline, Southern part of the Zaporizhzhia region) and Crimea; Bucovina and Bugeac to Romania with Odessa as an independent city-state like a Black Sea Singapore and the main part of Ukraine merge with Poland making the from sea-to sea-dream to come true. And btw such eastern border of Rzeczpospolita would virtually repeat the pre-1648 one. Maybe that’s just a dream but I hold that we have to do our best to bring outposts of the Western civilization as far to the East as only possible.
    And don’t confuse different issues. The Russian question in Ukraine and the all other minorities. It’s naive to feel solidarity with Russians just out of the feeling like all of us are minoritiess put down by brutal Ukrainian nationalists. Romanians in Ukraine can’t even dream about a sway held by the Russian “minority”. Their language and culture dominate vast regions of the country and in their wake Russian media, movies, books, TV all this huge propaganda machine comes and shapes the public opinion, cultivating pro-Russian sentiments, so Russian minority is a hindrance to our European aspirations, while Poles, Romanians, Jews and other minorities anchored in Western civilization.. let’s say it’d be better if their presence grow at the very least they might balance overwhelming presence of Russians.
    OMG I wanna sleep so much, but the last copla words.. About 2 mln Jews you claim to be killed BY Ukrainians… You mean 2 mln killed on Ukrainian territory? I take it Germans did nothing with it, all 2mln Jews were killed by the “rabid Ukrainian nationalists”? It doesn’t even matter that Ukrainians under Germs had no government of their own, that both district of Distrikt Galizien and Reichskommissariat Ukraine were controlled totally by German administration, and all those german troops, SS never killed Jews or played a minor role in the genocide while Ukrainians were the real culprits? That’s ridiculous

  23. Damien, I think I specified 2 million Jews killed on Ukrainian territory. The Germans were in charge, but you know that much of the dirty work was done by Ukrainians, and much of the killing was done by Ukrainians of their own initiative.

    And I don’t agree with you that there’s a new Iron Curtain. The EU does business with Ukraine, with Russia etc. Nor do I want Ukraine split into two (and my guess is that the Russians don’t want that either, they want the whole of Ukraine). We’ve had this conversation before more or less, and as I said last time, it would be great if Ukraine turned west and showed a genuine willingness to join the EU and NATO, but the truth is it hasn’t, not even with Yushchenko (who was a huge disappointment). Poland and Romania could be easily convinced to support EU and NATO membership for Ukraine (as it would solve all our security concerns for good), but how about Germany, which is very sensitive to any rehabilitation of fascism, and is reluctant to any further EU/NATO expansion anyway? Ukraine won’t find a lot of friends if it continues to build Bandera statues and rehabilitate terrorist organizations like the OUN.

    If the Yushchenko/Timoshenko administration had shared your opinion that the minorities in Western Ukraine need to be protected, then the Hungarians, Poles and Romanians (and I think other communities as well) would not have allied themselves with the Russian minority to support Yanukovic. In Transcarpathia and the Cernauti region (where there are barely any Russians), the Timoshenko/Yanukovic vote roughly corresponded to Ukrainian/non-Ukrainian ethnic lines. I think the lesson from this is that Ukrainians who want their country to turn West need to repudiate nationalists and chauvinists, and press for more democratic reforms instead.

    • A bit like Russia then.

      An awful lot of Jews in Russia were killed by the Russians working for the German occupational authorities.

      Still, Russian antisemitism is nothing new.

      Just look at how they treated Polish Jews during the Russo Polish war in the years after WW1, and again in 1939-41.

  24. Well A. maybe you are right about Bucovina, but your being like all non-Ukrainians alled themselves with Russians and supported Yanucovych. At least I can say for Polish community, not very large unfortunately of my city Kodak (Sovdepian Dniepropetrovsk), I’m a kinda member of due to my denominatinal status. Virtually all of them voted for Tymoshenko in the second round and as to the first a lot of them supported Yuschenko, and some even contemlated Tiahnybok as the toughest anti-commie. The only Poles sympathetic to Yanukovych were deeply sovieticized “babushkas” nostalgic of Sovok’s cheap food and yearning for “stability” and stalinist version of “law and order”. And as to the total support given to Yanyk by the Romanian community, I’m not sure about it too. If you regard a member of our parliament Ion Popescu as a spokesperson for all Romanians maybe you are right. But his political allegiances do nothing with Yuschenko’s course, he’s been Yanukovych’s sidekick and a Regions’ Party veteran of for years and you’d better ask him not me how come that a man claiming he speaks on behalf of Romanians is with a Party viewing NATO, Romania is a member of as an enemy. Ok you may say they don’t see it like this and ready to cooperate just don’t want Ukraine to join it, but why their opposition is so fierce? Why all this filibuster in the parliament with balloons and stuff? What’s so terrible about NATO if those guys are going too such extremes to prevent their country from the mere approaching its accession? They are either paranoid or sponsored by Russia or both. And though maybe some problems with minorities also were among the reasons of our Bucharest fiasco, but the main cause was Russia-orchestrated all-European anti-Ukrainian campaign with the use of all diplomatic and media resources. And sure it was Germans who just traded us for the gas. But look, that’s not just about gas and Ukraine, for Russians it’s about geopolitics. They intend to forge Russian-German alliance in order to break the Transatlantic axis and replace it with the Continental, Eurasian axis, thus bringing down Western Atlantic civilization and taking over all Europe. Yes it may seem ridiculous given how small Russia economically, but considering its military potential it can try to act as a new security-provider for Europe, sure you can imagine what kind of security it would be. And since you are talking so much about some superficial aspects of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, this is its spirit, its real core.
    But back to Romanian community. Actually it was split on the candidates almost 50/50% and though Yanukovych was just a little bit ahead, Tymoshenko also got significant support from Romanian Congrees of Ukraine.
    And as to Mr Tigipko, you very precisely defined as “russified” not ukrainized because as they’d say in Odessa where is Tigipko and where is Ukrainian (I mean his allegeances and agenda I don’t care what his ethnicity is and rather ashamed to find out he has some Romanian background too). For me he’s a sure winner in a nomination “The Most Disgusting Candidate”, more disgusting than Yanyk or Symonenko (a commie). And he can be called a Mr Pseudo – pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-cosmopolitan, pseudo-metrosexual, pseudo-blilliant-economist. A total fake and an immoral opportunist. And he’s a Russian creature too. It’s no surprise he used “Romanian Threat” to convince Ukrainians they need Russian fleet to protect them from Romania. So who are your friends and who are your enemies? And to top all this he betrayed his constituents having become a vice-prime-minister in the current Cabinet. And this is a statesman who’s like: well I will think twice before accepting a proposal to be appointed Prime-Minister, it’ll depend on how my program fit into the new course … And now look, he’s happy to be just Azarov’s gofer. Good for him!

    • Damien, I’ve read several interviews with Ion Popescu. His man objective is to fight for the survival of the endangered Romanian community, which has had to deal with decades of forced Ukrainization. His demands are modest and he basically just wants Ukraine to respect the commitments it made in 1997 and let Romanians have the same rights in Ukraine as Ukrainians have in Romania. He claims that he negotiated with all possible parties (including the Communists) and the Party of Regions were the most receptive to the Romanians’ demands, while the “orange” people were the least receptive (less so, surprisingly, than the Communists; in fact, the Communists were willing to accept every demand except recognition of Soviet crimes). Not only that, but under Yushchenko the situation of Romanians in Ukraine has become even more difficult, after Timoshenko’s plan for forced Ukrainization in schools. As for other minorities, Yanukovic himself claimed that he had made a deal with the leaders of both the Romanian and Hungarian communities (and Popescu confirmed this). I don’t expect Yanukovic to do a lot for Romanians, but at least he seems like a lesser evil.

      Maybe Poles voted for Timoshenko, but I wonder what they thought about Yushchenko’s rehabilitation of people who massacred tens of thousands of Poles. I know Poles in Poland aren’t too happy about that.

      I understand why you think Ukraine should be in NATO and the EU and I agree, but 1) most Ukrainians don’t want to be in NATO; 2) there are certain democratic standards that Ukraine has to fulfill (and the “orange” people weren’t interested in that) and 3) you need to have good relations with your neighbors and abide by the treaties you sign, because every EU and NATO member can veto the accession of new members. I don’t know if there’s a sure way to get in the EU, but you can be sure that building statues for Nazi war criminals and cotinuing the Soviet policy of suppressing minority languages won’t help.

  25. Well, A. I can’t deny Poles here weren’t enthusiastic about Bandera too, but this question was way down on their priority list, compared to the issue of Ukraine never ever entering Russian zone of influence again. These people know who their real enemy is. Poles and Ukrainians have a long history of violence between them but have come to realize how suicidal it is to fight one another. There’s a long way to go yet but I hope these two nations will grow closer and closer each year. The problem is that the very situation when Ukraine is forced to stay outside The Limes being touted so loudly by Germans is very disruptive for the process of our further integration and can stall it. Just when Ukrainians and Poles are starting to reach out to each other a new wall cuts us apart and now it’s growing higher and higher.
    What you are right about is that sometimes Ukrainian politicians are too difficult to understand and act very stupid. I don’t see the reason why Yuschenko failed to reach out to the non-Russian minorities. The only explanation is stupidity. But I do understand why he was so affraid of European charter for regional or minority languages. That’s not about his fascist proclivities and it’s not what you can see from Romania like: they want to be Europeans but don’t want to fulfill our standards. The point is that this Charter can open gate to a true tsunami of russification. And get it right I’m not talking about ethnic Russians and their right to use the native language in education, government and media. They make about 15-20% of the population, that’s quite a percentage but we can cope with it somehow, and I’m not talking about ethnic Romanians or Hungarians who are really starving for their own language and culture. They pose no threat neither to Ukrainian language nor culture, vice versa they may become a huge asset capable to enrich and diversify Ukrainian culture and as I said before to balance and neutralize overwhelming character of Russian presence here. BTW, you asked once Georg or elmer I’m not sure why were they so much affraid of immigrants, well I’m not and because of the same reason. The logic: Ukrainian means good-good, non-Ukrainian equals bad-bad is tooprimitive and has to be replaced with the more non-Russians and non-Russian cultural influences the better. Ukrainians will win their own country if they forge an alliance with all non-Russian ethnic groups. It’s the more real since almost all of them from Jews to Georgians have a history of victimization by Russians. And that’s why I’m not affraid of immigration at all, even poor people from Asia and Muslims. Moreover paradoxically they can tip the scales in favor of more pro-Western trends. Why? All these people whatever language they speak and whatever beliefs they stick to are driven here by the one single intention, to get pass the EU border and if made stay in Ukraine they’d be ready to do anything to bring the country closer to Europe to make their dream come true. And even more, all that Russian-Ukrainian brotherhood mythology and Holy Rus bullsh mean nothing to them, so they’d accept NATO, America, missile defence whatever if it meant opening the borders. I figure my logic might be shoking for both Ukrainian patriots and refined Europeans as well because of its outright cynicism, but here I am, I’m single-minded Macchiavelian)))
    But back to the point, the problem is posed by russophone cosmopolitan “mongrels” like myself:))) who have no idea who they and often jump to taking Russian identity. But even bigger problem are the russophonic ethnic Ukrainians confused about their identity, who are like: I’m Ukrainian but… But I can’t imagine Ukraine apart from Russia, we are all Slavs/Orthodox, how can a cultured person do without Russian, I can’t accept that now Moscow is abroad and Pushkin is a foreign poet… So BS like this. They are the target number 1 for Russian assimilation strategy.
    So though I support the Charter I realize how weak positions of Ukrainian are and that it needs some special governmental protectionism and policy encouraging at least ethnic Ukrainians to use it more widely. And a way needs to be found how to apply it discriminately, so while giving minorities the widest opportunities to use their languages and develop their culture Ukraine will be able at the same time to contain Russian cultural and media expansion.
    And concerning people’s stand on NATO, I seem to have answered to it partly. the cultural factors mentioned above are major hindrance and that’s one more reason to promote Ukrainian culture and identity. But also there’s another factor, plain anti-NATO propaganda. Regionites very frequently appeal to public opinion like we oppose NATO just cuz the majority of Ukrainians are against it, we are only expressing their will. But who formed this opinion, who manipulated people into rejection of NATO and twisted perception of its activities? Who carried on a smear campaign picturing NATO as an agreesor, an executioner of Serbs and Slavs in general? They set people against you first and then are like: you can’t lead Ukraine there against people’s will! It just hurts to look at such a hypocrisy

    • Well, this has turned into an interesting and informative conversation (even though completely unrelated to the blog article). If more people in Ukraine thought like you, your country would be in a better situation than it is now.

      However, I disagree on a couple of things: Ukraine has already signed the Charter many years ago and it HAS to abide by it if it wants to be taken seriously. I don’t think it would necessarily lead to Russification. In Romania, we have a large Hungarian minority concentrated in Transilvania, and Hungarian is used in administration, education, the judiciary, and all official documents in areas where there are at least 20% Hungarians are bilingual. Yet Romania is not Magyarized at all. We also have smaller Russian and Ukrainian minorities, who enjoy the same rights, and we aren’t Russified or Ukrainianized either. Compare this to Moldova, which doesn’t have the same legal protection for minorities as Romania, yet is heavily Russified (despite having only 5% Russians).

      So I’d say on the contrary, applying the charter will stop Russification, because it would enable non-Russian minorities to be in touch with their own languages and cultures instead of being Russified (you know better than I do that in the former USSR, most ethnic minorities were Russified within one or two generations).

      And I think you’re giving Yushchenko and Timoshenko too much credit. If their concern was “Russification” and they wanted in NATO and the EU, why did they target the Romanian minority in particular, and why was Timoshenko more interested in stirring up anti-Romanian hysteria than in standing up to Russia? What does Russification have to do with the fact that Romanians can’t study in their own language in a university built by them? Or with the fact that the Ukrainian government refused to acknowledge that the Romanian community was native to Northern Bucovina and Bugeac, and that they suffered persecution in Soviet times (same things they acknowledged in the case of Tatars)? Why does the official website of a raion with a 94% Romanian population only have a Ukrainian language version? Why do official websites of the Cernauti region and of the city of Cernauti make blatant lies about the history of the region? Why have even Romanian cemeteries been Ukrainianized? Why do Romanian and Polish memorials get vandalized? Why is it impossible to bring Romanian books over the border?

      And I think you know the answer to those questions, but it’s too uncomfortable to acknowledge. The truth is, Ukrainian nationalism was born historically from a deep-seated hatred and inferiority complex against Poles, Romanians, Jews and Germans, not Russians, who were seen as their bigger brothers and saviors (classic case: Taras Bulba). Which is why it is the Romanian community, not the Russians, that is the main target of hatred and discrimination even nowadays, when Ukrainian nationalists claim to want to join NATO. Russia has encircled you with troops in Crimea and Transnistria, yet crackpots like Timoshenko and Tigipko rant about the “Romanian threat”.

      Ukraine is a multinational, multicultural state, not a nation state, which is a great thing, and Ukrainian nationalism (which was historically anti-Western, and is currently anti-Russian only on a superficial, declarative level) has shown itself incapable of understanding that simple fact, or of doing anything positive for Ukraine in general.

  26. Well, A. first of all I hope we both won’t be banned for turning this page into a place for something like our private correspondence unreleted to the topic and I feel I owe an apology to Kim for this. Hope you’ll join me here. And whatever you think about the issue I believe that she does a marvelous job of exposing Putinist Russia and deserves our respect. I just hope for her understanding.
    And, ok, I have to agree with you upon the first part of your post. However big fan of American saying “My country right or wrong!” I am, sometimes it’s impossible to deny the country is wrong especially when its own wrong-doing harm this very country’s future. And I said before I believe we should implement the Charter, just the way preventing Russians from getting to big sway, and maybe you are right claiming the Charter can even stop russification. At least we won’t find out until we try it.
    Concerning your idea of Ukrainian nationalism and its roots… Well first, despite of my education (I have a MD in PS) it was never easy to me to draw a clear line between nation-liberation/nation-reunification movement and nationalist ideology. It’s too complicated and I guesss you generalize to much trying to present it as something homogenous and having just one core pronciple or feature. And anti-Russian sentiment in it isn’t just a current trend. I’m not a fan of it as an ideology, especially in those aspects as back-to-our-roots, anti-globalist, traditionalist, and clerical stuff, but I assume the claim Ukrainia nationalism was anti-West all-over is an exaggeration. Take for instance its chief ideologist Dmytro Doncow, an ultra-conservative thinker really next door to fascism. But in his main treatise “Russsia or Europe” he insisted upon Ukraine’s European identity and a separation from Russia to the maximal extent not just in political respect but in cultural as well. Again, Doncow isn’t among my favorite philosophers and I’d prefer to him Alvin Toffler or Ray Kurtzweil, but anyway…
    Also one of the ideologists of Ukrainian national-communism (not to cofuse with national-socialism, that’s just a convenient term to describe nationally-focused faction in Ukrainian communist movement, something similar to Titoism or Ceausism) Mykola Chvylovyi proclaimed a motto “Away from Moscow – Back to Europe!”
    But I can’t but say a copla words about Taras Bulba. Do you really think this both genious and intolerably nasty book is a Manifesto of Ukrainian Nationalism??? It maybe the most anti-Ukrainian book ever! Really I mean it. That’s a kinda cultural code for national self-destruction. For a long time I’ve been going to write an article on it. That’s a material to granpa Ziggie to psychoanalyze. Think about the very mythological imagery Father, killing his Songs (not a son but the Sons) one directly, another through poisoning his mind with hatred and bigotry pushing Ostap to his pointless martyrdom. That totally opposite to the Oedipean myth of Sons killing the Father, and thus laying the foundations for culture and morality. BTW some scholars studyong culture hold that it’s a core Theme of European civilization: Sons killing Father stand for the Future overcoming the past, Innovation prevailing over Tradition, thus facilitating progress as opposite to the Oriental Myth of Father killing Son (Rustam and Sokh theme, Saturn eating his kids, but in Greek-Roman tradition eventually dethroned by Zeus/Jove). So Taras Bulba is a novel about a sacrificing Ukrainian future to regious bigotry and irrational hatred, not a patriotic saga as Russions tout it for us. And I hate to look paranoid but it’s really a Russian virus plant into our system. Gogol wrote it exactly in a wake of Polish uprising by request of Nicolas I. The purpose was to set Ukrainians against Poles, because during the events a lot of Polish intellectuals started reaching out to Ukrainians, calling to Polish-Ukrainian unity in a liberating strife against Czarism. And Gogol was rewarded by the Emperor. And who Gogol was? A Ukrainian nationalist? Yes he was a real Ukrainian-born genious of RUSSIAN literature, but as to his influence on Ukraunian culture, it was rather ambivalent if not totally negative. He was a typical representative of the above-mentioned I’m-Ukrainian-but-attitude. Also he’s famous for overstressing on the oriental Turkic and nomadic character of Ukrainian culture and mentality. So Taras Bulba is rather a Manifesto of not just russification but deep orientalisation of Ukraine, pre-programming the nation to turn against the West totally in order to be deeply mired in obscure out-of-space-our-of-time world of Central Asian mythologemes. And what’s ineteresting, that another Taras, Shevczenko, a creator of a national mythology himself, though having started from the same gogolesque theme (Haidamaky) in his late years came to realize a vital character of Polish-Ukrainian alliance against Russia and suicidal character of their falling out, also predicting a come back to the times of brotherhood (“Back then when we were Cossaks yet”). And however our ideologists aren’t wiiling to talk about it loudly he very explicitly damned a traitor and cut-throat Chmelnicki in his poems for having led Ukraine into the Russian bondage. It’s one more indicator of our leaders madness to keep this figure as a Founding Father of the Nation, if Bohdan is a father, then surely a Saturn-like.
    What we need in a cultural sense is a sort of all-over national reinvention, replaying our core myths. Eventually young individiualist and free-thinker Andrii, having risen above national and religious prejudisms and social barriers for the sake of love and in pursuit of his personal happiness has to stand up to his cranky, brutal and ignorant father and kill him (symbolically sure;) I’m not calling to violence), marry beautiful Polish girl and live happily ever after)))
    And Kim, I beg you forgive me this subject-irrelevant logoroea)))

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