ABC News reports:
Political turmoil, a brain drain of scientists and waning interest have transformed Russia from a nation that launched the first satellite into an increasingly minor player in the world of science, according to a Thomson Reuters report released on Tuesday.
An analysis of research papers published by Russian scientists shows an almost across-the-board decrease, which reflects Russia’s shrinking influence not only in science but in science-based industries such as nuclear power, the authors of the Thomson Reuters report said.
“Russia’s research base has a problem, and it shows little sign of a solution,” the report reads.
“Russia has been a leader in scientific research and intellectual thinking across Europe and the world for so long that it comes not only as a surprise but a shock to see that it has a small and dwindling share of world activity as well as real attrition of its core strengths.”
In October, more than 170 expatriate Russian scientists signed a letter to President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, complaining about “the catastrophic conditions of fundamental science.”
“While other countries have increased their research output, Russia has struggled to maintain its output and even slipped backwards in areas like physics and space science, historically its core strengths,” said Jonathan Adams, director of research evaluation at Thomson Reuters, parent company of Reuters.
More information on the research is available at http://researchanalytics.thomsonreuters.com/grr/.
Adams and colleagues use a Thomson Reuters database to track scientific publications.
FALLING BEHIND
Russian research accounts for about 2.6 percent of the world’s papers published in journals indexed by Thomson Reuters over five years, the report found.
“For comparison, this is more than Brazil (102,000 papers, 2.1 percent of world) but less than India (144,000 papers, 2.9 percent) and far less than China (415,000 papers, 8.4 percent).”
The main focus was on physics and chemistry, with little research in agriculture or computer science.
The United States, the world leader in scientific research, has displaced Germany as the top collaborator with Russian researchers, the report found.
“The opportunities for other countries to link to Russia’s institutions of learning must be extensive,” the report reads.
“The gains for partners are likely to be significant, based simply on Russia’s historical contributions. But partners may need to bring resources to the party to enable Russia to participate.”
Cuts in funding and an aging work force have not helped, the report said.
“By one 2007 account, a few of the best Russian research institutes have budgets for research amounting to 3-5 percent of comparably sized institutes in the United States,” the report reads.
The average age for a member of the Russian Academy of Science is over 50, and the prestige of a field that gave birth to Sputnik as the ultimate expression of Cold War rivalry has plummeted. Just 1 percent of Russians polled in 2006 named science as a prestigious career.
La Russophobe 
Test flight of a Sukhoi PAK FA 5th generation fighter plane:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/2878926.html?v=fd6bf603a87e515f3c6a4631d8b8d51c
I was a bit surprised it proved to be the real thing. I thought it was a hoax. Now, I’m not an expert on military aviation, but from what other people with greater knowledge in the field have said about it, it looks promising. From what I have read, it could defeat any fighter in the world in one-on-one combat, except the F-22.
Also, since they’re developing PAK FA jointly with India, that means the development and production of the fighter will not depend only on the Russian military’s budget.
This isn’t so much a challenge for the Americans, as it is for the Chinese. Americans already have a 5th generation fighter, the Chinese don’t. Russia still has the world’s 2nd strongest air force, and if they play their cards right it could stay so in the future, or be 3rd, right behind India.
However, although designing a jet fighter requires a great amount of knowledge and technology, one succesful project doesn’t mean a country is a scientific superpower. The fact is that Russia’s contribution in scientific papers is 2,6% of the world, and it’s contribution to world population is 2%. This is not very good when compared to the USA.
Actually, even Russian military analysts are skeptical about this new Russian project.
1. No new engines or avionics, especially the radar and fire control systems are severely outdated.
2. No new weapons systems.
3. Its just a copy of the YF-23 which LOST the US fighter competition.
4. The US/UK/Australia/Canada are also currently developing the JSF (joint strike fighter) which is a highly manouverable VSTOL fighter/ground attack aircraft which will make even the F-22 look old, with the ability to detect targets and launch missiles in a 360 degree arc. This aircraft is already flying and is considered by many to be “6th” generation
In summary, the Russian/Indian project is too little to late.
Besides, we just have to look at the inferior combat performance in action of the following Russian “suoer fighters” of previous years.
1. F-86 v Mig-15 Korea (F-86’s gain at least 7 to 1 kill loss ratio)
2. Mirage III v Mig-21 1967 Arab Israeli war and 1967-1973 war of attrition (Mirage III ganis about 20-1 kill loss ratio including 10-0 against Russian flown Migs)
3. F-4 v Mig-21 Vietnam (USAF & USN F-4’s gain 4-1 Kill loss ratio over NVAF Mig-21’s)
4. F-4 v Mig 21 Yom Kippur (IDF F-4’s gain around 10-1 kill loss ratio over Mig-21 including those flown by soviet “advisors”)
5. F-4, F-16, & F-15 V Mig 23, Mig-25and Mig 29 over Bekaa valley 1982-2000 (IDF gains 100-0 kill loss ratio)
Then there is the slaughter of Russian built aircraft in the 1st gulf war, over Kosovo, etc etc etc.
For more information of the F-35 see here.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avf35.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/jsf/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II
http://www.jsf.mil/
As I said, I’m not an expert on those things. Besides, it’s just a prototype as of now. Things like radar, avionics and engines could be changed in the future. They are subsystems on the aircraft. But you probably already know that.
And it looks to me like a crossover between F-22, YF-23 and Su-27. Besides, the fact that YF-23 lost to the F-22 doesn’t mean that the YF-23 is bad.
And regarding the better kill ratios of Western aircraft, that doesn’t just depend on the fighters themselves. Western armies have enormous logistics to support the air force from ground, sea and space. The pilot is very important too.
Also, the vast majority of those kills were against Serb and Arab forces, which were poorly equiped and trained when compared to Russian, and even Indian forces.
For the Serbs I know that many of the subsystems on the MiGs didn’t work at all, and taht they had very little anti-air defenses, which are a strong point of the Russian military. And Soviet-armed India regularly reached air superiority over Western-armed Pakistan.
Im’ not claiming that Russian aircraft are better than their Western counterparts, it’s that in wars there are many, many factors which shouldn’t be ignored.
And thank you for the links. I’ll look them up when I have more time.
But, what does all this have to do with Russian science? Eugene, this is your fault!:)
I read an article about the percentage of Russian languge science papers. It says they made 20% of world total in chemistry and biology in 1972.
http://web2.adfl.org/adfl/bulletin/v05n1/051048.htm
I wonder what the percentage would be now?
hroboatos wrote:
[I’m not an expert on those things]
Maybe not, but surely more of an expert than the owner of this blog and all her russophobic helpers put together.
Actually on multiple occasions in Korea, the Arab Israeli wars, and in Vietnam, Russian “volunteers” piloted aircraft in up to squadron strength.
The results were no different.
The Russian built aircraft and their pilots were still slaughtered.
That is a more a testament to superior Western tactics than to the flaws of Soviet equipment or skills of an individual. Western forces have much better coordination and command, and in large numbers they will prevail over Soviet forces. Take two Western airforces, one armed with Soviet aircraft and the other with comparable American aircraft, and the Soviet- armed-force would win. just look at the perfomance of German Mig-29s or even American Su27s. I will write in greater detail when I have more time.
Not really hrobatos.
I know several RAF and Luftwaffe pilots, and they all say the Mig-29 has been severely overrated by the public.
It is good at airshows in a low speed and low wieght range, but its performance majorly falls off when loaded and at high speed.
After all, there have been many years of exercises between NATO countries that have soviet equipment such as the MiG-29 and the western equipped members, and it is interesting to note that the Poles, Finns, and all other eastern European nations are opting for western designed and built aircraft (Finland the F-18, Poland the F-16) and retiring their migs.
As for the performance of the SU-27, well its performance may be similar to the F-15, but certainly no better.
I think I agree with you.
So Russia has finally unveiled the long awaited T50 fighter, this new 5th generation plane is supposed to be Russia’s answer to the USA’s F22 raptor, at this time the world’s most advanced fighter in service, equipped with technology so sensitive that the Americans will not even let their allies gain access, only a handful of British pilots have been given that privilege.
So let’s compare; The F22 was developed at a cost of $65 billion and each unit costs $145 million. The Russian T50 development cost of $10billion is modest in comparison; each unit costs $100 million. So if we use the tried and tested rule of thumb “you only get what you pay for, then the T50 must be a “pale shadow “of the mighty raptor.
Or could it be (perish the thought) the Russian Federation has pulled its usual historical stunt of stealing US technology. There is a case to answer when looking at Russia’s “newly” developed stealth technology used on this very fighter. In 1999 during the Serbian conflict an American B2 stealth bomber crashed outside Belgrade, Russia’s good buddy Slobodan Milosevic when requested by Moscow had this wreckage packed up and shipped to Russia. Then almost by magic a few years later Russia’s developed stealth.. Amazing! Our pro Kremlin lobby tries to persuade us that Russia is misunderstood and really their friends and would be partners, well blatantly stealing technology isn’t the act of a friend, in my view this is the behaviour of rivals who can’t be trusted.
The F22 raptor’s maiden flight was in 1997 a full 13 years before this Russian T50 it’s so called equivalent, and as always US technology moved on years ago, shortly we will see the upgraded FB22 and X42 manta plus as Andrew has pointed out joint co-operation of the 6th generation JSF.
These new developments will again leave our Russian rivals trailing in the dust. Poor pathetic Putin “always the bridesmaid never the bride”.
It is possible that the Russians stole something, no doubt about it.
And it wasn’t a B2 which crashed in Serbia because the B2 crashed only once, over the island of Guam.
The B2 Spirit, the most expensive aircraft ever built ( if we exclude space ships and stations and Hubble), has never been shot down in combat.
What you’re refering to is the F117 Nighthawk, which was shot by Serbian anti-aircraft in 1999, and is now no longer in service, replaced by the F22. It is too old to be ripped off by the Russians for PAK FA, because the F117 is 1970s technology, and in its development Lockheed engineers used the work of a Russian mathematician, who in turn used the works from a German physicist. I don’t know their names.
Nonetheless, it is possible the Russians stole something. In their opinion, the ends justify the means. I do not support intellectual theft, but it happens.
Sorry Hroboatos I stand corrected it was an F117 nighthawk that went down, but if you check you will find this was a “stealth” aircraft, and this was handed over to the Russians by the Serbs
I know F117 is a stealth aircraft and that the Serbs handed it over. It’s just that not all stealth is the same. The Russians probably did learn a few things by studying the aircraft. But the F117 is outdated when compared to PAK FA, so either most of the technology behind PAK FA is genuinely Russian, or Lockheed Martin is leaking info like an old water tank.
[So let’s compare; The F22 was developed at a cost of $65 billion and each unit costs $145 million. The Russian T50 development cost of $10billion is modest in comparison; each unit costs $100 million. So if we use the tried and tested rule of thumb “you only get what you pay for, then the T50 must be a “pale shadow “of the mighty raptor.]
But only an idiot would apply this rule in this situation? Who doesn’t know that the labour in Russia is orders of magnitude lower than in USA? Only cretins.
And only ignorant people don’t know that the US government has been overpaying purposefully defence contractors for their planes and other products in order to make the defence industry wealthy at the expense of average taxpayers:
http://fanaticalapathy.com/2003/09/17/if-i-had-a-really-expensive-hammer/
If I Had a Really Expensive Hammer…
Excerpt From President Bush’s Remarks – 9/17/03
PRESIDENT: Pentagon was paying for certain stuff. “Five hundred dollars for a hammer,” people were saying. “A thousand for a toilet seat. What’s up with that?
Looking back, though, we can see what the cynics just didn’t get at the time – the money for those hammers and toilet seats wasn’t going into the hands of Big Government, it was going into the hands of honest, hard-working Americans. Maybe we paid too much. Maybe we cared too much about American workers. I guess I’ll have to accept that accussertion. Of caring. Too much. [pause for laughter]
……………………………….
See? The average US taxpayers are forced to pay $1,000 for a toilet seat in order to artificially bloat the profits of defence companies, in the hope that not all of it will end up in the pockets of wealthy owners/shareholders, but some will trickle down back to the average US taxpayers working in the defence industry.
That’s what the free market is all about: paying $1000 for a toilet seat.
[“you only get what you pay for”]
Speak for yourself. I am sure you think that when your tax money goes to pay $1000 for a toilet seat, you get your value. I don’t think so. I can get a top-notch seat for less than $20.
The Soviet military was much more efficient than its American counterpart, because the Soviet economy was only 30-40% of the American economy. U.S. military power was (and is) a consequence of U.S. economic power, but Soviet military power was the result of bringing the process of weapons development and production to perfection. Russia inherited this trait from the USSR, so it really doesn’t need as much money as the USA.
But it should not be forgotten that Russia compared to the USSR is more corrupt, has only 1/2 of the Soviet population, and its military has only 1/3 of the number of scientists who worked for the Soviet military.
Maybe less than that. Russia’s military budget is miniscule compared to Soviet.
Well, depends on your defenition of “more efficient” given the horrific level of corruption in the soviet union, and the inferior equipment the soviet union produced.
The soviet production of weaponry was far from perfect, as has been seen in every war where Soviet equipment was pitted against its western counterparts.
Unless of course you mean the Russians perfected the means of killing their own soldiers more efficiently?
See the annihalation of Soviet made tanks in the middle east and in Afghanistan, the slaughter of Soviet crewed helicopters and ground attack aircraft in Afghanistan, by both the Mujihadeen, and also by the Pakistani military when the Russians were stupid enough to attempt “hot and heavy” raids against the Pakistani bases of the Mujihadeen.
Not all Soviet equipment was inferior to its corresponding Western piece of equipment. If that were the case, a non-Soviet-aligned country would have never purchased anything from the USSR. But just look at the arsenals of China and India, two respected powers.
And by more efficient I didn’t mean that the weapons were perfect, it’s just that a rather weak economy, with no hard currency at all, managed to build the most massive military force in history. Just compare the sizes of the superpowers’ nuclear arsenals, and read this article about nuclear war between the two, written by an American using American sources
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/nuclearwar1.html
The USA would fare much worse than the USSR.
And regarding the examples you gave, I say that Afghanistan and Pakistan are incredibly hard battlefields. Not even NATO managed to prevail there. And the Iraqi military was by no means a completed Eastern-bloc-like force. Its tanks were decades old compared to Coaliton tanks, outdated even by Warsaw Pact standards, the army was plagued by total lack of coordination nad cooperation, typical for contemporary Arab armies, and it lacked any proper anti-air defenses. Most Iraqi tanks were killed by Coalition aircraft.
To see a conflict where a Western-armed force encountered a Soviet-armed force with comparable equipment and military skill, see the Indo-Pakistani war in 1971. Soviet-armed India won decisively.
Not really hrobatos.
Actually a very large proportion of Indian military equipment was from the UK.
For example the centurion tank springs to mind.
Or the Hawker Hunter, or the Canberra bomber.
Then there is the L1A1 SLR.
And Pakistan used soviet designed equipment too, such as the Mig-19, and the SU-22.
During the wars of the 60’s and 70’s between India and Pakistan, both sides used a mixture of western and Soviet equipment.
OK, but what about aerial combat over East Pakistan? Wasn’t that won thanks to Indian MiG-21s?
Well not really.
The Pakistanis only had one squadron of 17 Canadair Sabres (a Canadian development of the F-86 with a slightly more powerful engine than the US varian, and 20mm cannon instead of .50 cal MG’s) and 2 T-33 trainers.
Against this the Indians deployed:
Indian Air Force Eastern Command:
3 Mig 21FL Squadrons
4 Hawker Hunter Squadrons
3 Folland Gnat Squadrons
1 Canberra Squadron
1 Sukhoi Su-7 BMK Squadron
2 Squadrons each of Mi-4 and Aluette III Helicopters
The Indians had total air superiority on the eastern front from day 1.
[The soviet production of weaponry was far from perfect, as has been seen in every war where Soviet equipment was pitted against its western counterparts.]
Yes, the American victory in the Viet Nam war was highly impressive.
Well, they won all the battles my retarded Russian friend, and the USAF & USN inflicted 4-1 Kill loss ratio in air to air combat.
Then there was the annihalation of NVA and VC units during Tet in 68.
The US public did not have the will to win, militarily the US won, politically they lost the will to keep on winning.
Also note that they were dealing with a powerful opponent directly armed with the latest soviet tanks, artillery, SAM’s and aircraft.
Compare this with the extremely poor Soviet performance against Afghan fighters whose most advanced weapons were the Stinger SLSAM, and Toyota pickups with Dshk 14.5mm MG’s.
[militarily the US won]
Really? When exactly did USA conquer North Vietnam and Hanoi?
Well, when you consider that the US had a massive kill los ratio in its favour, and that it only took a threat of continued bombing of Noth Vietnam to bring the Communists to the negotiating table in 1973.
The US officially withdrew its ground forces due to public pressure from domestic critics (scum like yourself who were quite happy to banadon others to a dictatorial communist regime that murdered hundereds of thousands of its own people…)
The NVA conquered South Vietnam in 1975, when the US had already withdrawn from the conflict.
Now compare this to Afghanistan, where the Russians were DIRECTLY defeated.
[it only took a threat of continued bombing of Noth Vietnam to bring the Communists to the negotiating table in 1973.]
1. So, the only thing that USA manged to do to North Vietnam in almost a decade of fighting is to bomb it? You would think that USA, armed with allegedly the best hardware in the World, would have been able to conquer North Vietnam at least 15 times over in those 8 or 9 years.
2. The reason why the North Vietnamese agreed to negotiate in 1973 was because this was a capitulation on the part of USA, masked as “peace accords”.
Now Arthur, unlike Russia, the USA was not interested in invading and occupying other countries.
The US was fully capable of invading North Vietnam and destroying its ability to wage war.
However, the fact is that they chose not to do so because of the fact that thier aim was to defend South Vietnam from Communist agression, just as they did in Korea.
However, due to the US publics unwillingness to continue a war that seemed to be perpetual, the US withdrew.
There was no capitulation, as shown by the disatrous NVA invasion of the South in 1974, which was bombed into a precipitous withdrawl.
However the 1975 invasion was not dealt with in the same manner.
Andrew is correct when ever Soviet/Russian equipment is matched against US made hardware it’s found wanting. This is why the Egyptians kicked out their Soviet friends after 1967. They were spun a lie about soviet arms superiority, the humiliation inflicted upon them by Israel who were equipped with US hardware exposed soviet inferiority.
And over the last 40+ years nothing has changed,
PS; Does anyone seriously believe that Russia can produce an equivalent of the raptor by spending $55 billion less? Because if this were so it would be us trying to steal their technology, surly Russia would be the most technologically advance nation on earth with an economy to match, and not the basket case we all know it to be.
I don’t believe that Russia could produce an equivalent of the Raptor with 6-7 times less money.
But why do other countries continue to buy Russian hardware, even after the Egyptian fiasco? They could aquire arms, if not from the USA, then at least from France, China or Israel.
Because its cheap.
And because they do not meet the requirements to purchase from EU/US nations.
Funny how democratic and peaceful India doesn’t meet the American requirements, while horrendous dictators in wretched Jew-hating Arab countries like Saudi Arabia are showered with American military hardware.
Well, they have been approved to purchase the F-15, F-16, and F-35.
Besides, peacefull is not really true. There was the invasion of Kashmir and then the invasion of “East Pakistan (Bangladesh)” and the US was concerned about tech transfer to the arch genocidists in Russia.
Good question, maybe its the price? Russia gives special deals to its friends, they advanced Nicaragua $1 billion to buy Russian arms,and got recognition for Abkhazia/South Ossetia in return.
Russia gives special deals to small and irrelevant countries, for reasons known only to Putin and company. However, from China and India they make a nice profit. And these countries would not buy junk. The Chinese are notorious for their ability to bargain, and they are tough negotiators.
Why do they buy Russian hardware? Because it is much cheaper and more reliable than Western-made. Even the American NASA chooses to use Russian space shuttles (see below).
China? The only good hardware China have is what they stole from Russia, by buying somewhat outdated Russian hardware , then reverse engineering and selling it in blatant violation of the patent law.
Tagged: russia
19 responses so far ↓
*
Robert // January 7, 2010 at 5:16 pm | Reply
*
Yanikto // January 8, 2010 at 3:59 pm | Reply
I lived in Russia for 15 years and this is typical of Russia.
A completely pie in the sky initiative that has zero chance of success.
Other initiatives I have seen over the past decade
1. High speed railway from Moscow to St Petersburg
2. New freeway/motorway from Moscow to St Petersburg
3. New computer chip to compete with Intel
4. New Russian designed car to be competitive with imports
5. Russian GPS system
6. New terminal at Sheremetevo
7. Russian mission to Mars
8. And numerous other grandiose projects
And any result???
Nope
I
t is a Slavic “kartofel” republic, a failed and dying country…..
*
heh // January 9, 2010 at 12:42 pm | Reply
See here:
“20.07.2009
Sabotage behind Bulava failure?
Russian security services do not exclude that the Bulava missile have been subject to sabotage, RIA Novosti reports. ”
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=7282
It was all saboteurs and “enemies of the people”, as usual! ;)
o
AntiPuk_In! // January 9, 2010 at 5:27 pm | Reply
Well… surely it was Saakashvili and his American firends from CIA… (Who else? You can’t blame Russia for being a moroniya of the XXI century…)
*
I `m Russian // January 9, 2010 at 11:20 pm | Reply
It`s super Russia + super China+super Iran= SUPER POWER which will be the main force of the future. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/LA08Ag01.html
o
Andrew // January 10, 2010 at 6:38 am | Reply
A “superpower” like Russia, that can’t even maintain infrastructure like a hydro electric dam?
A “superpower” like Russia that can’t even make a working sub launched missile?
HAHAHAHAHA
*
R John // January 10, 2010 at 11:53 am | Reply
There and old saying “The bigger the lie the more believable it becomes” This ludicrous Russian “whopper” falls into this category.
Let’s get realistic here; Russia does not have the technical knowhow for such a project. And more importantly could not fund it. Look what happened with Russia’s space project. After the fall of the soviet union if the USA had not stepped in to fund it the scientist and technicians would have found themselves unemployed and like most educated Russians they would have been scattered to the four corners of the earth leaving Russia completely out of space exploration projects forever.
Putin as usually is “writing cheques his ass can’t cash”.
*
Yanikto // January 15, 2010 at 8:26 am | Reply
Another Big Russian Project doomed to fail!!
“Putin Aims to Halve Drinking in 10 Years ”
ROFLMAO!!!
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-aims-to-halve-drinking-in-10-years/397457.html
This may statistically be possible, as half the population may be dead by then!!
o
Robert // January 15, 2010 at 2:43 pm | Reply
Prime President Rasputin for once has an idea that might save Mother Russia and her Western-opressed knees.
Of course Nick II had a similar idea and in few years his Russian Empire was no more (and some of his former subjects even shot him up together with his entire family).
Heck, even his little well-meant (as opposed to organizing pogroms of Jews and other such hobbies) stunt to promote himself and at once drinking beer instead of vodka resulted in the death of massive number of people (Khodynka Tragedy).
And then Gorbachov tried to limit drinking too, and in few years his Soviet Union was no more as well. Coincidence?
Oh, they even noticed this:
“The paper argues that the rise was possible because of a lack of a coherent government policy. They point to the fact that between 1914 and 1917 Russians consumed only 0.83 liters per capita.
During those years, a ban on alcohol introduced by Tsar Nicholas II was in force.”
;)
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster
The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated over Texas during re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere, with the loss of all seven crew members
Space Shuttle flight operations were delayed for two years by the disaster, similar to the Challenger disaster. For 29 months the station relied entirely on the Russian Federal Space Agency for resupply and crew rotation
……………………….
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/The_US_Has_No_Option_But_To_Use_Russia_Soyuz_Craft_999.html
The US Has No Option But To Use Russia’s Soyuz Craft
After 2010, the United States will likely be unable to deliver its astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) on its own. For several years Russia’s Soyuz craft will remain the only vehicle available to do that, and the U.S. may find it hard to do without Russian cooperation.
The American concern has not a leg to stand on: Russia has always been noted for the scrupulous observance of its commitments. It never broke them even during the Cold War.
If worst comes to worst, Russia and the European Space Agency could together run the ISS without American participation. Aside from Russia’s facilities for transporting astronauts and supplies to the station, the European Automated Transfer Vehicle – Advanced Return Vehicle (ATV-ARV) system could chip in. Russia and the ESA are also working jointly on a manned transport system expected to be developed by 2015.
According to Vladimir Solovyov, flight director for the Russian segment, ISS systems are already capable of supporting a six-member crew, and in the future with new Russian modules, of bringing it to 10-member strength.
LR,
I accidentally cut-and-pasted a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff. Please delete the above post of mine in order to keep this thread neat.
Thanks.
Oh god,
I accidentally cut-and-pasted a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff. I apologise!
Re – the above
This is a serious site why are some being allowed to make a mockery of it. and the people who participate?
Andrew wrote:
[Now Arthur, unlike Russia, the USA was not interested in invading and occupying other countries.]
Have you ever heard of Grenada, Panama, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan (to name a few)?
Lets see, Grenada was only occupied for a few days, Panama Canal zone is now under the control of the people of Panama, due to the US removal of Noriega (admittedly they tolerated him for a long time too).
Iraq and Afghanstan are not occupied in the sense you mean, and it is interesting to note that 70% of Afghans approve of US forces being in the country and are optimistic about the future of their country now.
Compare this with their continuing hatred of Russians……
So lets see, have you heard of Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czecheslovakia, Romania, Georgia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Azerbaijhan, Chechnya, Daghestan, Ingushetia, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Kurile Islands, Mongolia, Afghanistan, to name a few.
And then there are the Russian supported dictatorships, from Sudan through to Burma which commit ethnic cleansing and/or genocide, and are protected at the UN by Russia.
Then there are all the lovely Russian traditions of Gulags, mass deportations, mass executions of intelectuals, that sort of thing.
[Iraq and Afghanstan are not occupied in the sense you mean]
And in what sense do I mean?
Why is only USA allowed to invade, destroy and occupy foreign countries, bringing lawlessness and millions of deaths with them?
The peoples of the World are not pigs and cattle, and USA is not a cattle rancher to butcher everybody it wants to chew up.
@they tolerated him for a long time [Noriega].
Of course they did. How could they not, when he was a drug lord on the payroll of the CIA, installed there after a legitimate, popularly elected governement was overthrown by CIA sponsored guerillas ? They predictably stopped “tolerating” (loving him, or showering him with love, might be a more appropriate term here) after he stopped following orders from the State Department and covert agencies and began losing his tyranically grip on the country.
@Iraq and Afghanistan are not occupied in the sense you mean
I’m sorry, do we now have a system that rates occupations by assigning them standard units ?
Last time I checked, an occupation is an occupation. If invading a country on dubious grounds and without a UN mandate, killing anywhere from 600,000 to 1,000,000 civilians (the Lancet’s Iraqi Body Count Project estimates 654,000 at the very least), installing a compliant puppet regime and setting up shop in a fortified zone for an undefined time is not occupation, I don’t know what is. It’s occupation when the Nazi’s do it – naturally, it is still occupation when someone else perpetrates it. By the way, check this editorial from the most compliant and pro-establishment newspaper in the US. Even they admit that Afghans are not happy being fire-bombed from the skies on a daily basis and being ruled by a pliant clown in a funny hat who once worked for an Enron subsidiary.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/09/AR2009020901368.html
@and then there are the Russian supported dictatorships.
And then there are the countless dictatorships supported, funded and propped up by the self styled “leaders of the free world” ever since the 50’s and onward. The military junta in Greece, death squads in Nicaragua and Salvador, Pinochet in Chile, Fulgencio Batista in Cuba, Shah Rezah Pahlavi in Iran, Saddam Hussain in Iraq, Chausescu in Romania, Ferdinand Marcos in the Philipinesm, Diem in Vietnam. And that;s just a taste of the past.
Now, the US is the number #1 breathless cheerleaders for the criminal regime in Israel and its continued regime of terror and occupation of Palestine. The IDF is, of course, known for firing tank shells into refugee camps at point blank range, execution -style killings of Palestinian hostages and use of barbarous weapons like white phosphorous, not to mention the criminal, 40 year occupation of lands to which it has no feasible claim. Every year, when a UN resolution condemning the regime is brought to the table in the UN General Assembly, it is the US ambassador who smugly vetoes it, leaving the vote at something like 1-145.
Then there’s the lovely US tradition of redrawing sovereign borders, intervening in foreign politics, and invading foreign nations, all under the guise of humantarianism and democracy building, that sort of thing.
[It’s occupation when the Nazi’s do it – naturally, it is still occupation when someone else perpetrates it.]
This is not a valid comparison. Nazi’s occupation of, say, Poland lasted for only 5 years, after which the Red Army kicked the Nazis out.
But the American occupation of Afghanistan has lasted for 9 years so far, and of Iraq – for 7 years, and will continue for many decades to come, regardless of empty promises to withdraw.
If USA ever withdraws from there – these countries will turn into hotbed of global suicidal (and possibly nuclear) islamic terrorism on an unimaginable scale. And the longer USA stays there – the angrier the locals will grow.
Another major issue is oil: if USA leaves Iraq, Exxon and BP will again lose their rights to Iraqi oil, and that is something the US and UK governemnts cannot allow.
So, unless and until they are all exterminated, USA will have to occupy them forever.
Well, funny how you support Russia when it butchers millions in the 19th & 20th centuries, and when it butchers tens of thousands in Chechnya, Georgia, Moldovia, and conducts campaigns of ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
As for bringing lawlessness, well just look close to home Arthur, see the lawlessness that accompanied Russian troops into Georgia.
Looting schools of their desks and blackboards, looting and burning entire villages and killing or driving out their inhabitants.
Compared to Russia, for all its faults the US is positively angelic.
Once again, you fail to adress the questions that I have presented in my responce and begin delving into your favorite unprovable tales about evil kremlin neo-stalinists and their ethnic cleansing. EVIDENCE ? I DIDN’T THINK SO.
@looting schools of thier desks and blackboards. SHOW ME THE PICTURES. SHOW ME THE UNBIASED EYEWITNESS REPORTS.
@looting and burning entire villages. SHOW ME THE PICTURES. SHOW ME THE UNBIASED EYEWITNESS REPORTS.
@killing and driving out inhabitants. SHOW THE THE PICTURES, SHOW ME THE UNBIASED EYEWITNESS REPORTS. SHOW ME THE TAPES.
It’s quite easy for me to support Russia, becuse it hasn’t recently undertaken any actions that contravene the UN Charter, hasn’t starved hundereds of thousands of Iraqi children throught pointless sanctions, hasn’t carpet bombed entire city blocks in Fallujah, hasn’t hacked up sovereign states and recognized the independence of terrorist narco-states. Sorry, man, but when it comes to heavy handed foreign policy actions that result in deaths of innocents and mass hatred around the globe, we’re not even close to catching up to the good ole’ US of A.
I mean we all know you are retarded Nikita (not your fault you are a Russian I guess)
“Georgian Villages in South Ossetia Burnt, Looted
(Java, August 13, 2008) – Human Rights Watch researchers in South Ossetia on August 12, 2008, saw ethnic Georgian villages still burning from fires set by South Ossetian militias, witnessed looting by the militias, and learned firsthand of the plight of ethnic Ossetian villagers who had fled Georgian soldiers during the Georgian-Russian conflict over the breakaway region of South Ossetia.
In South Ossetia, Human Rights Watch researchers traveling on the evening of August 12 on the road from the town of Java to Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, witnessed terrifying scenes of destruction in four villages that used to be populated exclusively by ethnic Georgians. According to the few remaining local residents, South Ossetian militias that were moving along the road looted the Georgian villages and set them on fire. Human Rights Watch saw numerous vehicles carrying South Ossetian militia members, as well as Russian military transports moving in the direction of Tskhinvali.
Numerous houses in the villages of Kekhvi, Nizhnie Achaveti, Verkhnie Achaveti and Tamarasheni had been burnt down over the last day – Human Rights Watch researchers saw the smoldering remnants of the houses and household items. The villages were virtually deserted, with the exception of a few elderly and incapacitated people who stayed behind either because they were unable to flee or because they were trying to save their belongings and cattle.
“The remaining residents of these destroyed ethnic Georgian villages are facing desperate conditions, with no means of survival, no help, no protection, and nowhere to go,” said Tanya Lokshina at Human Rights Watch.”
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/type,COUNTRYNEWS,,OMN,48a425cc1a,0.html
“Satmaps said to show ethnic violence in South Ossetia 29 Aug 2008 14:31:00 GMT
Written by: liesbeth Renders
Satellite images have long been useful to aid workers and governments in planning humanitarian assistance. But the increase in availability of high-resolution commercial imagery taken from the heavens is now helping human rights workers document abuses on the ground.
UNOSAT, a U.N. programme set up to put satellite imagery at the disposal of the relief and reconstruction community, has been using commercial satellites to hone in on the conflict between Georgia and Russia in South Ossetia. Analysis by UNOSAT experts shows patterns of destruction that may be consistent with evidence of ethnic attacks gathered by Human Rights Watch researchers working in the region.
UNOSAT’s maps document fires burning in ethnic Georgian villages around Tskhinvali, capital of South Ossetia, between August 7 and 16. And UNOSAT’s experts conclude it is highly likely the fires were directly or indirectly linked to the armed conflict.
Human Rights Watch goes a step further, saying the patterns on the ground show that the destruction of villages was “caused by intentional burning and not armed conflict”.
“Human Rights Watch researchers personally witnessed Ossetian militias looting and burning down ethnic Georgian villages during their research in the area,” Rachel Denber, deputy director of the Europe and Central Asia division of Human Rights Watch, said in a news release. “These satellite images indicate just how widespread the torching of these villages has been in the last two weeks.”
UNOSAT’s maps also show extensive damage to buildings in the area between Kekhvi and Tskhinvali, with an estimated 1,030 buildings affected. Of this total, 787 were identified as destroyed and 243 severely damaged.
Ethnic Georgian witnesses from Tamarasheni told Human Rights Watch they had seen Russian tanks systematically looting and burning as well as firing into ethnic Georgian homes in this area.
“All of this adds up to compelling evidence of war crimes and grave human rights abuses,” Denber said. “This should persuade the Russian government it needs to prosecute those responsible for these crimes.”
The conflict in Georgia is just one example of satellite imagery being used to document alleged abuses.
USAID has long used commercial satellite imagery for its work in Darfur. USAID chief Andrew Natsios says on the agency’s website: “In a functional village you see trees, and the houses will all have cone-shaped roofs made of grass. And you can see…goats, cows, dogs – and you’ll see people walking around.” In destroyed villages, “you can see the walls, which means the roofs have been burned down or destroyed, and you won’t see any animals, any people, or any trees because they’ve been all burned.”
Eritrea used high-resolution imagery to document the alleged destruction of Eritrean public and private infrastructure by Ethiopian forces as part of evidence to an international claims commission established at the Hague to settle claims disputes. ”
http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/43555/2008/07/29-143116-1.htm
http://www.rferl.org/content/Article/1292746.html
Now Nikita, there is plenty of evidence of Russian and Ossetian atrocities.
I understand from your previous posts that you are not too well educated, but still, even memorial (a Russian organisation) has documanted the ethnic cleansing in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
“(Java, August 13, 2008) – Human Rights Watch researchers in South Ossetia on August 12, 2008, saw ethnic Georgian villages still burning from fires set by South Ossetian militias, witnessed looting by the militias, and learned firsthand of the plight of ethnic Ossetian villagers who had fled Georgian soldiers during the Georgian-Russian conflict over the breakaway region of South Ossetia.
In South Ossetia, Human Rights Watch researchers traveling on the evening of August 12 on the road from the town of Java to Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, witnessed terrifying scenes of destruction in four villages that used to be populated exclusively by ethnic Georgians. According to the few remaining local residents, South Ossetian militias that were moving along the road looted the Georgian villages and set them on fire. Human Rights Watch saw numerous vehicles carrying South Ossetian militia members, as well as Russian military transports moving in the direction of Tskhinvali.
Numerous houses in the villages of Kekhvi, Kvemo Achabeti (Nizhnie Achaveti in Russian), Zemo Achabeti (Verkhnie Achaveti in Russian), and Tamarasheni had been burnt down over the last day – Human Rights Watch researchers saw the smoldering remnants of the houses and household items. The villages were virtually deserted, with the exception of a few elderly and incapacitated people who stayed behind either because they were unable to flee or because they were trying to save their belongings and cattle.
“The remaining residents of these destroyed ethnic Georgian villages are facing desperate conditions, with no means of survival, no help, no protection, and nowhere to go,” said Tanya Lokshina at Human Rights Watch.
In the village of Kvemo Achabeti, Human Rights Watch researchers spoke to an elderly man who was desperately trying to rescue his smoldering house using two half-empty buckets of dirty water brought from a spring. He told Human Rights Watch that the vast majority of the residents, including his family, fled the village when active fighting between Georgian forces and South Ossetian militias broke out on August 8, but he decided to stay to look after the cattle. He said members of the South Ossetian militia came to his house on August 11, and tried to take away some household items. When he protested, they set the house on fire and left. The man said he had no food or drinking water; his hands were burned and hair was singed – apparently as he was unsuccessfully trying to extinguish the fire – and he appeared to be in a state of shock. He said that there were about five to ten elderly and sick people left in the village, all in a similar desperate condition, and many of the houses were burned.
In the village of Kekhvi, many houses were set on fire between 6.30 pm and 7.30 pm on August 12 – they were ablaze as Human Rights Watch researchers moved along the road. Two elderly women from Kekhvi were weeping as they told Human Rights Watch about what happened in the village. One of them explained that the members of South Ossetian militias passed by the village and stopped at her house and “threw something” that set it on fire. She did not manage to rescue anything from the house and at the time of the interview could not even enter the house as it was still burning. She had no money on her and did not know if she could survive in this situation.
Human Rights Watch researchers also saw armed Ossetian militia members in camouflage fatigues taking household items – furniture, television sets, heaters, suitcases, carpets, and blankets – out of houses in the village of Kvemo Achabeti, and loading them into their trucks. Explaining the looters’ actions, an Ossetian man told Human Rights Watch, “Of course, they are entitled to take things from Georgians now – because they lost their own property in Tskhinvali and other places.”
A representative of the local administration in the town of Java told Human Rights Watch that the authorities had arrested two men who were looting the ethnic Georgian villages, but was adamant that they were not members of the South Ossetian militias. His colleague, however, said, “Isn’t that what they [Georgians] have been doing to us? These old people shouldn’t be complaining – they should be happy they weren’t killed.”
International humanitarian law applicable to the fighting between South Ossetian militias and Georgian forces prohibits attacks on civilian property, as well as looting or pillaging. Individuals, including commanders, participating in the deliberate or reckless destruction or looting of civilian property are responsible for war crimes. International humanitarian law also prohibits “acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population.”
Russian Minister of Internal Affairs Rashid Nurgaliev said there would be “decisive and tough” measures taken against looters.
“The Russian government should be held to this promise to punish looters but much more needs to be done to ensure that all sides protect civilians,” said Holly Cartner, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. ”
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/08/12/georgian-villages-south-ossetia-burnt-looted
Now Nikita
There was lots of film of Russians looting.
Here are 3
http://russiangeorgianwar.blogspot.com/2008/08/russian-looters-in-georgia-in-soldier.html
Including Russian troops robbing a bank, a Russian “officer” shooting at a journalist and stealing cameras and 4wd’s
And
And this film:
As for violating UN resolutions, why Russia does it all the time, supplying weapons to nations such as sudan which is under a UN arms embargo, supplying weapons to groups such as hamas and hizbollah.
As for US hated around the world, sorry bucko, but the US is still more popular than Russia, even in the middle east.
And one more vid
Andrew,
In the past, LR has banned any russophile here who dared to post more than two YouTube videos.
You have posted 6 in a row so far, and still going for more. What gives? Did you get a new order from your bosses to demolish this blog?
Notice that not one of your YouTube posts has anything to do with the subject matter: “Russia: Marginalized in Science”.
I wonder if you are the greatest spammer/troll in all of blogosphere. Are you running for some sort of an award?
Or are you having another bout of your debilitating mental illness right now, Andrew?
Can you call the hospital, or do you need somebody else to call them for you?