EDITORIAL
Once Again, the USA Humiliates Russia
Well, it’s that time of year again, the time when Russia is forced to hang its head in shame before the awesome power of the United States, the time it dreads all year like the plague.
You know, the time when they hand out the Nobel prizes. Ouch.
Well, let’s see now. This year they handed out 13 Nobel prizes in the traditional six categories (physics, literature, economics, chemistry, medicine and peace).
And Russia won . . . exactly zero. Again. Does anyone remember the last time a Russian won as much as a share in a single Nobel prize (hint: think six years ago)?
As for America? It took down a whopping 9 of the 13 prizes including one in peace (making it two of the last three years for the Americans in this category), three in medicine, two in physics , one in chemistry and two in economics.
But America is a warlike nation that knows nothing about science and is populated by fat, Big-Mac-chomping slobs and morons, right?
Was the contest rigged to favor America by the world which, according to Russia, despises America and all it stands for? Oops.
So America wins 70% of the Nobel prizes available and Russia wins 0%. Anybody else think that’s a pretty telling insight into the relative levels of development, education and civilization of the two countries? We sure do. Meanwhile, Russians go on imagining that America knows nothing about such things as physics and chemistry, that Russians are light years ahead of America in this regard. One might weep if one were not so busy laughing. And vice versa.
Amazingly, Russian “president” Dima Medvedev (who couldn’t even manage to vote properly in the recent Russian elections) actually tried to take credit for U.S. President Barack Obama’s peace prize. In one of the craziest statements yet issued from the Medvedev Kremlin, Dima exclaimed: “I hope that this decision will serve as an additional incentive to our work to create a new climate in international politics and promote initiatives that are fundamentally important for global security.”
Our work, huh Dima? Yes, that’s what he believes. Kremlin lackey Vlad Frolov was even more unambiguous: “It is a pity that President Dmitry Medvedev will not share the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize with U.S. President Barack Obama. In my view, he deserves it no less than Obama, whose principal accomplishments are still in the future.”
Funny, we must have missed Dima’s speech in America rejecting Vladimir Putin’s seething anti-American hatred and calling for a new era of good relations in which America’s concerns would be more fully considered by Russia, as Obama did in the Middle East. We don’t recall him pointing out America virtues and strengths the way Obama did about the Arabs. In fact, to the contrary we distinctly recall Medvedev continuing to bash America and indeed sending aid and comfort to America’s enemies, like Venezuela, Syria and Iran, including nuclear weapons. Doesn’t sound terribly peaceful to us.
It’s always amazing how Russians are able to shield themselves so completely from anything remotely like facts or reality, just as they did in Soviet times. It proves, of course, that it is nothing but mythology that Russians have full access to facts via the Internet. Indeed, Russia remains just as backward and ignorant as it ever was in Soviet times.
Which is why, of course, Russia can’t win Nobel prizes. Instead of reforming, Russia denies the need to reform, and continues to languish in darkness.
La Russophobe 
Is America the land of hillbilly morons? My personal experiences with Americans is that they are quite poorly educated in general but, very well educated in whatever they specialize in and do they ever tend to specialize. Foreigners come much closer to the proverbial “Jack of all trades-Master of none” problem. The trouble is that the USA is a great superpower and this flaw which in a normal nation could be overlooked becomes magnified in importance with America. Indeed this is true of any fault of any important social group. If Jewish people have flaws they become magnified in importance simply because of the group’s power and/or importance in human affairs. When you are powerful and important your flaws are big deal to people. While jealousy does play a role in this it is not entirely jealousy. The concern here may be quite justified. If Americans really do not understand and hence empathize with say the vietnamese \cuban people’s desire for genuine independence it might lead to a calamity for both nations! They might think the trouble is more to do with communism than with the desire for independence. Simply because the USA produces so many Nobel prizes does not mean it is off the hook with these other matters. It is a serious and dangerous thing for the world’s lone superpower’s population to not give a fig about abroad and foreign policy to the degree that they let some oil companies and refugee communities dictate foreign policy! The general population doesn’t even care to bid! Anyone who is naive enough to think that the USA can continue to get by being a “Jack of no trades-Master of one” forever deceives himself alone!
Corey:
In the beginning of your message you said that foreigners came much closer to the “Jack of all trades-Master of none” problem. From the context, it’s clear you meant much closer then Americans.
Then, I guess you forgot about that and in the end of your message you said that you doubted the U.S. can continue to get by being a “Jack of no trades-Master of one.”
So which one is it? Are we or are we not a “Jack of no trades-Master of one?”
In my view, the real problem is that you have grossly over-generalized it. In country as large and diverse, there are millions of redneck morons, and millions of intellectuals, and all kinds of persons in between, wouldn’t you agree?
RV,
Didn’t Corey explain it in detail: In her view:
Americans are “Jack of no trades-Master of one.”
“Foreigners” are “Jack of all trades-Master of none”
Where is the contradiction in Corey’s logic?
On the contrary, your inability to understand trivial human logic suggests that you shouldn’t talk about science, which is based on logic.
Of course, having no logical abilities is a prerequisite to being a russophobe anyway…
Oh, I love you LR!
You are such wonderful Goddess…
Sweetie, kiss kiss
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
And we love you right back, darling!
(Truth hurts, doesn’t it? Yeah, we know. Sorry ’bout that.)
This looks like a doglov(e) from first sight.
Do all dog lovers find LR appealing?
Uh, excuse us Mr. Brainless dimwit, but Doglov hates us. Your reading abilties are Russian in character. Were you educated there?
Hilarious stuff, you’re a really amusing clown to have around.
OK
Well, maybe you are right, Corey, maybe Americns are poorly educated. I guess we can’t be sure. The thing is that average Russian @izda lives something close to 10 years less than average American and average Russian @udak lives some 15 years less than average American. Doesn’t really matter how educated someone is, if drunk.
LOL! See my post on Alcoholic Russia, Estland!
Well, let’s see, let’s count the number of public and private American universities and colleges, and, don’t leave out the thousands of community colleges versus the equivalent numbers in Russia. Ooops, not many Russians have access to a higher education.
Oh, and, Corey, what you are leaving out of “my personal experiences” as if we care is that you are an American, somewhere here, and most likely with mom still on your uneducated back. Nice try.
Don’t bother responding, past this you go to the troll cemetary. Bye bye.
> Oh, and, Corey, don’t bother responding, past this you go to the troll cemetary. Bye bye.
Oh, Penny, you are such a sockpuppet (to use your terminology). Don’t bother responding, past this you go to the troll cemetary. Bye bye.
Penny, my post’s main intention was simply to provide some balanced perspective to the situation described by LR in her editorial. It did not strictly speaking disagree with what it contains. LR is correct in her assertions about the gap in educational accomplishment and the two nations. My other intention was to point out that there are some dangerous aspects to the cavalier attitude most Americans have to general or overall knowledge. With regard to the personal attacks in your post you should know that I am unprovokable and not frightened of you in the least.
I find it truly sick when a joyous event like Nobel Prize Awards turns into an ugly hatefest, when American victories are turned into “Russian defeats”.
Why would any sane person celebrate not the American victories but the Russian losses. Nobel Prizes aren’t supposed to be about competition and keeping scores between countries. That goes against the very foundations of the Nobel Prizes.
However, on the subject of Russia not getting enough Nobel Prizes, we have already discussed this in some other thread.
It is infinitely easier for an American to receive the Nobel Prize than for a non-American. Take a look at this year’s Peace Price. Obama was nominated for it on February 1, 2009. This was 11 days after he became President. And boom- he got the Prize, even though he has so far accomplished absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, it is infinitely harder for a Russian to receive the Nobel Prize than for a Westerner.
Russian scientists have been treated especially unfairly. To illustrate this, we don’t have to go very far. Just look at this year’s Nobel Prize in physiology/medicine awarded last week for the discovery of telomeres, the greatest discovery ever in the field of aging and life extension:
http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/9014/
Nobel Committee Forgot to Award Russian Scientist
7.October.2009
Recent Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine went to three American scientists for the discovery of how chromosomes are protected by telomeres and the enzyme telomerase.
They investigated molecular mechanisms of cell ageing and showed that the secret of ageing is closely linked with ends of the chromosomes – telomeres – and an enzyme which builds them – telomerase.
Every cell division shortens telomeres, which means length of chromosome ends defines cell age. Awarded research is valuable not only for helping understand ageing mechanisms, but also for searching new ways of treating cancer and some hereditary diseases.
However, some Russian biologists think that the Nobel Committee has forgotten to award Russian biologist Alexey Olovnikov, who suggested that chromosome ends shortened after each division in 1971. First experimental confirmation of his hypothesis appeared 15 years after Olovnikov’s prediction. Current laureates simply confirmed the mechanism of telomere’s working in a cell, which was first described by Alexey Olovnikov.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Olovnikov
Alexey Matveyevich Olovnikov is a Russian biologist. He was the first to recognize the problem of telomere shortening, predict existence of Telomerase and suggest the Telomere hypothesis of aging and the Telomere relations to cancer
———————
In other words, Olovnikov made the whole discovery by himself, using no instrument other than his brilliant brain. It took 15 years for the technology to progress to the point that Olovnikov’s discoveries could be verified in the laboratory. The 3 Americans, who did the routine job of verifying Olovnikov’s theory, got Nobel Prizes, but the Russian genius, who made this discovery 15 years ahead of his time, got nothing.
penny wrote:
> Well, let’s count … American universities and colleges… versus Russia. Ooops, not many Russians have access to a higher education.
Penny, why do you have this deplorable habit of constantly speaking out of ignorance? You seem to be living in a knowledge-free world, in which you, as a child, learned from your schools and media that America is the most advanced culture in the World and Russia is the most un-advanced.
But that is simply not the case. Look, LR demands that all Russophile posts must be fully documented or else the authors would be banned for life. Well, maybe she should make the same rule for russophobe posts as well. Because if you, instead of writing down your little fantasy, bothered to look up facts, you would quickly discover the official education statistics from the OECD:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OECD
The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) (in French: Organisation de coopération et de développement économiques, OCDE) is an international organisation of 30 countries that accept the principles of representative democracy and free-market economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education
OECD education statistics
Go to their site and download their PDF report on World education statistics:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/11019052/Education-at-a-Glance-2009-OECD-Indicators
Education at a Glance 2009: OECD Indicators
Page 29 deals with high school (secondary) education:
Chart A1.2. Population that has attained at least upper secondary education (2007)
Russia is the 8th best in the World, while USA is only 11th best.
Next page 30 deals with college (tertiary) education:
Chart A1.3. Population that has attained at least tertiary education (2007)
You will see that Russia is the best in the World among people 55-64 yo, and is tied for 1st place with Canada and Korea among people 25-34 yo; while USA is only 12th best.
Pages 37 and 39 summarise various types of educational levels:
Table A1.1a. Educational attainment: adult population (2007)
Table A1.3a. Population with tertiary education (2007)
There you will again see that not only is Russia the best in the World in terms of education percentages, but it is far ahead of everybody else.
Maybe the reason why you, Penny, are so ignorant is because you didn’t get a Russian education? :-)
> Ooops
Exactly
I can’t be alone in noticing the paired sockpuppets that hit every thread here.
The pattern is so obvious.
Troll “Corey” shows up, gets shot down, and no surprise “Michael Tal” is activated to deliver the rebuttal including “Corey’s” due diligence homework that “Corey” was informed would be ignored by me.
That’s classic Sockpuppetry 101, folks, right before your eyes. Poor “Corey” figured his problem was solved and he was back in the game with a new moniker. It happens frequently at LR.
The lesson learned is to ignore these critters, I admit I broke my own rules.
I am not the same person as Michael Tal. I do not use his name on here and to my knowledge he has never used mine. Sorry.
Penny,
Have you noticed that anybody, who is not hard-core russophobe, is a “troll” in your book?
Corey wrote:
> LR is correct in her assertions about the gap in educational accomplishment and the two nations.
Corey, why would you say this? Are you an expert on Russian education? I bet you say this because of the false image that the US mass media has presented of Russia.
Didn’t you see my post above, describing OECD education statistics, which show that Russia is the most educated nation on Earth, while USA is about 11th or 12th?
Well given the collapse of the Russian state into the 3rd world, the near total failure of Russia to compete in the production of high technology etc, either the Russian education system is a sham, or the majority of Russians are unable to use the knowledge they have been given in any meaningful way.
Andrew, don’t equate education and wealth.
For example, you, a construction worker type, make 100 times more money than do your neighbours: Georgian professors and academicians.
All ex-Socialist countries of Eastern Europe are not wealthy yets, but surely they are highly educated: from Estonia to Czechoslovakia.
To say that somehow Estonians and Russians, being poor, are less educated than, say, people in wealthy Bermudas or Qatar or Kuwait – that’s silly.
No Michael, you are making assumptions again.
Ever heard of Engineering? Structural and Civil?
I happen to have a masters in the subject.
TTFN.
I was just jiving you.
Michael, when I mentioned the gap between Russia and America in educational accomplishment I was referring primarily to things of not quite so mundane a nature. eg. Nobel Peace Prize accomplishment. The US at present does seem to me to have the advantage here but you are right I am no expert in these matters so I will have to look carefully at your statistics which you posted for us all. And thanks for doing so. Bye for now.
Yes, and while you at looking at his statistics, try to find explanation why people from all over the world come study to U.S. colleges and universities. Surely, our crappy education system could not be attractive.
Of course, there are some language students who go to study Russian; and some Russian history majors, too. But other than those, how many persons from civilized countries go to Moscow to attend college?
Corey,
Thanks for you attention. If you are interested in Russian education quality, please also see my posts here:
https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/editorial-russian-schools-get-an-f/
As far as Nobel Prizes go, please remember that they are awarded primarily to practitioners who own their own labs and have lots of money for PR. Theoreticians, who are the real brains behind discoveries, get passed by by the Nobel Committee.
Russia, being financially poor, can’t afford wealthy labs, thus it cannot compete with USA.
However, in theoretical sciences Russia is second to none. In mathematics in particular, Russia is best in the World.
Yet, another problem is that most Russian scientific publications are in Russian, and few Westerners can understand them. For example, the 1975 Nobel Prize in Economics went to the Russian scientist Leonid Kantorovich for the work he did back in 1939! Why such a delay? Because Kantorovich’s discovery was published in Russian, and it took almost 36 years for the Nobel Committee to find out about Kantorovich’s work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Kantorovich
Here is what Kantorovich’s Nobel Prize co-recipient Tjalling Koopmans said in his Nobel Memorial Lecture:
http://almaz.com/nobel/economics/1975a.html
CONCEPTS OF OPTIMALITY AND THEIR USES
Nobel Memorial Lecture, December 11, 1975
by TJALLING C. KOOPMANS
Kantorovich’s work of 1939 did not become known in the West until the late fifties or early sixties. Meanwhile the transportation model was redeveloped in the West without knowledge of the work on this topic by Kantorovich.
———————–
Many other Russian scientists never got Nobel Prizes because their works were not known in the West.
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
Umm, dude, what does that have to do with NOW? This post is about NOW, you freak. Everybody knows everything NOW, yet Russia STILL doesn’t win. You have the mentality of a billygoat.
It was probably also a Soviet state secret that was not released to the hated west until the late 60’s or 70’s.
LOL
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
> Umm, dude, what does that have to do with NOW? This post is about NOW, you freak.
A head is given to person not only for eating and shouting but also for thinking. Try it some day. Nobel Prizes are not given for NOW results. Most of them are given for results from 20-25 years ago. But for Soviet results, there is an about 36 year delay. That would mean that in 2009, the Nobel Committee isn’t aware of the Soviet results after year 1973.
The stats you posted for us all are very revealing and enlightening. Basically they show that at the fourth grade level Russia is truly right up there with standardized testing on math, science, and reading. And by the way I do remember seeing something about this on the Colbert Report too. So not just a lot of hot air! Unlike some people on here.LOL!
Michael, please see my response a bit below!
As you can see below? I’m having some problems DIRECTLY replying to Michael’s thread for some reason. Sorry.
MT, more bonehead logic in spite of the fact that Rooshan Oligarchs send their kids and families to Europe for an education? Not to mention their blood money.
More likely any educational success is the carryover from Soviet Times when other (enslaved) populations got into the only fully financed Universities available, mostly in Rooshan Maskva. Brain drain migration defeats Neo Savokian logic. If RoSSiyans are so educated, why is there warfare in their own “Federation”? The answer is, uncivilized bastards have taken over, and are indoctrinating mindless minions of Boshevik Spawn.
Questioning journalists slaughtered and elections fixed. The nearest countries are threatened with a murderess drunken Red Army, which loots, rapes and destroys anything that resembles culture. The RaSSiyan Turko Sino Mongol hoard is kept in check only by a vicious mafia government of crime lords. No other way to run this subhuman population.
The outnumbered humans have to go, one way or another. Forced draft is evaded in RoSSiya by an education, otherwise get an anal surcharge in the Rooshan military, while your sergeant pockets the money. Laughing at you while revealing his foul dental work. Keep trying MT, no one is fooled.
> Turko Sino Mongol hoard
Wow, what a racist…
More than 100 blacks were lynched by the Russian hoard last year, up 30% from the year before. Did you exclaim against that racism, you mind-boggling hypocrite?
No, I guess he will whip up some statistical data showing that Russia has two or three minority members of their government. At least that was his response to the well documented concerns over the virulent Russian anti-Semitism. Turns out, they don’t have none. Probably, no racism either
LR, you are doing the same thing that you forbid other people from doing: changing the subject. The subject here is science and education.
I find it disgusting that when George wrote a disgusting racist attack on the Chinese, Turks and other Asian people, you defended him and instead attacked me for objecting to his racism and even justified this attack on the Chinese people by using the famous Soviet demagoguery: “But you lynch Negroes!”
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
That’s interesting, because ironically enough we find you and your ridiculous idea that you rather than we get to decide what goes on on our blog to be disgusting.
Meanwhile, we’ve banned George, you idiotic simplelton. Please crawl back under your rock.
LR, why did you cut-off a big chunk of my post, including a quote about the Chinese Nobel Prize winner in physics? What was wrong with it? May I re-post it?
Lots of reasons:
(a) Because you insulted and offended us.
(b) Because we can.
(c) To show you who’s the boss around here (i.e., not you)
(d) Because your insipid drivel had nothing to do with the content of this post.
> your ridiculous idea that you rather than we get to decide what goes on on our blog to be disgusting.
I have no such “ridiculous idea”. All I said was that the phrase “Turko Sino Mongol hoard” sounds racist to me. Do you deny me the right to an opinion?
LR wrote:
> More than 100 blacks were lynched… Did you exclaim against that racism, you mind-boggling hypocrite?
Yes, I have exclaimed against the rise of racism in Russia, USA and France in numerous forums in the last 5 or 6 years.
As far as your claim that “100 blacks were lynched” goes – you gave no documentation, so there is no way for the reader to know what particular news item you are referring to. So, in the absence of any references from you, I went to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia
The latest statistics they have is for the first 7 months of year 2007. There were 310 racist and neo-Nazi crimes in Russia in those 7 months. This is horrible!
For the record: most of these 310 hate crimes were not against Blacks (who are few in Russai) but against Central Asians and Caucuses people (who are many).
As a man who spends in Russia several months per year, I am very upset at these crimes. But I spend most of my time in USA, and it equally upsets me that in year 2006 in USA, there were 9,080 offenses of hate crimes, 55% of which were racist; with hate crimes rising at the rate of 8%:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crimes_in_the_United_States
That would mean that per capita, in 2006-2007 there were about 4 times more racist crimes in USA than in Russia.
> Did you exclaim against that racism, you mind-boggling hypocrite?
How about you? Did **you** exclaim against that racism in your own country of USA, you mind-boggling hypocrite? Or do you agree with and approve of racist crimes in America, you mind-boggling hypocrite?
Well, there is a big difference in a couple of respects.
1. Police in the USA take the issue of hate crimes very seriously, whereas in Russia those comitting hate crimes are viewed at best indifferently, and at worst (such as in the case of Nashi) are actively aided and abetted by state security organs and the police.
2. Due to the fact that hate crime is considered a serious offence in the US, incidents are widely reported and there is confidence in reporting attacks to the police. This is not the case in Russia, where human rights activists have stated repeatedly that the majority of cases go unreported due to mistrust of the police, and the widespread belief that the police are actively involved.
“Jessica Golloher reports from Moscow that the attacks aren’t simply increasing in frequency, but in intensity as well. The last year for which there are official statistics is 2007. In that year, 653 people were victims of hate crimes. Of those, 73 died as a result of their injuries.
Police indifference
As Jessica found out, hate crimes are treated with indifference by police. And in some cases, assaults have taken place directly in front of police officers, who do nothing to help.
There is one ray of hope. Jessica went to a clinic run by American missionaries, which was set up specifically to help treat those who’ve been assaulted in hate crimes. There she spoke with a few men, from Ghana and Nigeria. One man, Manuel Thomas, told her how he’d been beaten by eight men who left him for dead.”
http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.radionetherlands.nl/thestatewerein/otherstates/tswi-090228-hate-crimes-redirected
“Although cases of racist murders and serious assaults are likely to generate some attention by the media and may be recorded by nongovernmental monitors, the day-to-day low level harassment is thought to be widely under-reported. Victims of hate crimes are often members of vulnerable minority groups and fear risking further discrimination, harassment, and abuse at the hands of law enforcement officials. Given that most hate crime victims in Russia are consequently reluctant to inform police or authorities for fear of official indifference or retribution, many crimes go unreported every year. Thus it is believed that even the most credible nongovernmental figures on hate crimes are very low in comparison to the actual number of hate crimes occurring in the country.”
Click to access 080908-FD-individual-upr-russian-fed.pdf
I wouldn’t mention the Obama’s prize even if i were russophobe, for it perfectly shows what Nobel Prizes are now.
Sounds kind like the fox and the grapes, doesn’t it? Maybe the only thing worse than winning a Nobel is . . . not winning one?
If you think Russia is better off without winning Nobel peace prizes, you should rethink. Russia isn’t spending billions it doesn’t have on the 2014 Olympics because it loves to ski.
Maybe, BUT the US has also won many OTHER NP’es for MANY scientific victories! Physics/Chemistry/Medicine…
I’m just telling about this specific peace prize. Somehow it ruins the value of all the others, if you ask me. Just like if americans have won most medals on olympics but anybody knows that their runner came 3rd and still got gold.
” Does anyone remember the last time a Russian won as much as a share in a single Nobel prize (hint: think six years ago)? ”
– Yeah, Jores Alferev… but honestly WHO is Russian there? Like 99% of the NP winners from Russia are not Russian… Mr.Alferev for example is Jewish…
And Barack Obama for example is kenyan
Well he is also part Irish through his white AMERICAN mother.
No, US is a special case. Obama is not Kenyan, he is American. But Obama indeed had Kenyan father and Jewish American mother. But it is US. A country that was created by immigrants. Russia is much older nation than Americans and yet they lag behind US in EVERY imaginable field. Not to mention the simple humanity…
AntiPUKin wrote:
> Like 99% of the NP winners from Russia are not Russian… Mr.Alferev for example is Jewish…
Yes, most Russian Nobel Prize winners were Ashkenazi Jews. But then again, half of all American Nobel Prize winner are Ashkenazi Jews too.
Maybe that’s why USA has had more winners: there are more Jews in USA?
In any case, why does America have a right to take pride in the accomplishments of its Jews, and Russia doesn’t?
Read a few comments that certain Russians post on this blog and you would understand why — Russians take pride in eliminating Jews not in their accomplishments
Yes, there are antisemites in Russia. Just as there are antisemites in USA.
So what? Still, Russia takes full pride in the victories of Jewish-Russians and USA takes full pride in the victories of Jewish-Americans.
In fact, it is this pride that makes the antisemites feel especially bad.
And btw, both ethnic Russians and ethnic Jews can take pride in Alferov: he is half-Jewish and half Russian. You see, his Russian father and his Jewish mother loved each other and got married, like millions of other Russian-Jewish couples. And they had many Nobel winning sons: half-Jewish and half Russian:
· Igor Tamm
· Ilya Frank
Alexei Abrikosov
Zhores Alferov
Ilya Prigogin
Wassily Leontiev
Simon Kuznets
Ilya Metchnikov
There are also numerous other intellectual giants like that. Just look at some of the World Chess Champions:
Vasily Smyslov
Boris Spassky
Viktor Korchnoi
Vladimir Kramnik
So, Jews and Russians love each others a lot and make great children together. :-)
Some do, many don’t.
Russian anti-semitic attitudes are extremely widespread, after all, a majority od Russians polled stated Jews should not hold public office in Russia (see the Levada centre)
TOM TUGEND
Jerusalem Post
10-12-2003
Headline: Russians dislike Jews – survey
Byline: TOM TUGEND
Edition; Daily
Section: News
Page: 04
Russians believe that the two most prominent characteristics of Jews are slyness and stinginess, nearly half (46 percent) would disapprove of a close relative marrying a Jew, and only 1 percent express admiration for Jews.
The somber statistics show that Russian chauvinism, fed for centuries under the czars and then Stalin, is again on the rise, according to Dr. Yuri Levada. Recently described in The New York Times as his country’s most respected sociologist, Levada is the veteran director of the Russian Center for Public Opinion Studies, equivalent to the Gallup Poll.
During an interview in his sparse Moscow office, Levada offered some meager “consolation” in noting that Russians dislike Muslims, Arabs, Africans, Gypsies and people from the Caucasus region even more than Jews.
In addition, his poll showed that 79 percent of the people across the vast, sprawling country have “no special feelings,” one way or the other, toward Jews, and “religious” and “rational” ranked in third and fourth place among a menu of 19 Jewish “characteristics.”
The 73-year old former Moscow University professor and his staff conducted the poll on Jewish “characteristics” in August among 2,000 respondents, citing a margin of error of 3.5 percent. His two other surveys, on Russian attitudes toward Jews in general and intermarriage specifically, were conducted earlier in the year.
On top of their historical anti-Semitism, today’s Russians have found some additional reasons for disliking Jews. Some hold Jews responsible for the crimes of the Stalin era, while others identify Jews with the “oligarchs” who grew extremely wealthy during the Boris Yeltsin regime.
Against this background, however, conditions for individual Jews have improved. Except among skinheads and extreme nationalists, “anti-Semitism is not very militant,” Levada said, and in contrast to the Stalin and czarist eras, Jews can more easily attend academic institutions, except for military academies.
“I don’t believe that the level of anti-Semitism here is higher than in Western and Central Europe,” Levada said.
Though he is partly Jewish, Levada said he had not encountered any personal anti-Semitism, but he has had political run-ins with former Soviet chief Leonid Brezhnev in the 1970s, and currently with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
On the Middle East, public opinion is about evenly divided. “The time when Arabs were seen as friends of Russia is over and Yasser Arafat is considered a bandit,” said Levada. There is now a general fear and dislike of Muslims, he added, partly due to the fighting in predominantly Islamic Chechnya.
Levada estimates that after large migrations to Israel, the United States, and Germany, some 300,000 to 500,000 Jews remain in the Russian area of the former Soviet Union, many, if not most, only partly Jewish.
Unofficial results from a just compiled national population census by the Russian government list only 259,000 Jews. This low figure is contested by Jewish officials, whose estimates range from 500,000 to 900,000 Jews. Russian nationalists proclaim that there are millions of Jews, hiding under Russian names and identities.
Levada sees little hope for a viable Jewish community in Russia. “Jews will be all right for the next few decades, but the real future lies in assimilation,” he said. “I am very doubtful that there will be a Jewish community here in the long run.”
Levada’s distinguished academic and professional career has been marked by intellectual independence and courage. After condemning the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in a 1969 book, he was fired from his professorship at Moscow University by Brezhnev. Currently, he has incurred the wrath of President Putin after publishing a poll showing that only 28 percent of Russians support the war in Chechnya.
Putin, who has shown little tolerance for media critics, retaliated by packing the hitherto independent board of the Center for Public Opinion Studies with his own minions.
In late September, Levada resigned, and taking the center’s name and most of the staff with him, has reopened for business in smaller quarters.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/access/422998131.html?dids=422998131:422998131&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Oct+12%2C+2003&author=TOM+TUGEND&pub=Jerusalem+Post&edition=&startpage=04&desc=Russians+dislike+Jews+-+survey
LR wrote:
> Meanwhile, we’ve banned George, you idiotic simplelton.
So, I was absolutely right in pointing out his racism? Then why did you resort to childish insults against me for doing the right thing, like:
> “mind-boggling hypocrite”… “idiotic simplelton”
You are less mature than my 11 year old son.
> Lots of reasons:
> (a) Because you insulted and offended us.
I am glad that you find my intellectual superiority overwhelmingly threatening to your bruised ego.
> (c) To show you who’s the boss around here
The only way you can assert your “superiority”, eh? You are pathetic.
> (b) Because we can.
You are less mature than my 8 year old daughter. No wonder you are a russophobe.
> Because you insulted and offended us
How many of you did I manage to insult? Why plural? Tapeworms?
Andrew wrote:
> It was probably also a Soviet state secret that was not released to the hated west until the late 60’s or 70’s. LOL
For the first time you’ve said soething wise – and you laugh at it.
That is indeed the biggest reason why the vast majority of Soviet Nobel-quality results were never rewarded Nobel Prizes – the Sovoks considered almost all science to be of a potential military use and classified most research, making it publishable only in top secret internal journals.
Thanks for reminding this to me.
But Kantorovich’s work was indeed published in the open in Moscow in 1939:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantorovich
Actually I was laughing at the excessive stupidity of police states.
The Soviet (and Russian when looking at pre and post Soviet tendencies) is to lie about failure and supress success (to deny knowledge to your enemies). This attitude resulted in several disaster for the Russian space program, when failures and the reasons for them were not passed on, and when the most successful of the Russian rocket scientists died, their replacements were vastly inferior due to their research not being disseminated due to its “importance to the state”.
Well, Andrew, there are some very classified American scientists too. For, example the National Security Agency employs a stunning array of mathematicians and computer scientists. Rumour has it that many of the computer and cryptography algorithm discoveries made in the open literature today – were discovered by the NSA scientists 10 years earlier. It is just that they aren’t allowed to publish. This nust be very painful: seeing others get all the credit for your own disocveries!
That is almost certainly the case, but with cryptology you can understand why.
Publishing cryptology algorithims kind of negates the purpose from a security point of view.
However, I would suspect that the NSA does not make the same mistakes its Russian counterparts do with excessive secrecy, compartmentalising its scientists and programmers to their general detriment.
Look,it is the same like we Russians sponsoring a new price,giving it out to our Russian scientists or politicians(for example like the Nobell (with two l !!)prize for peace to Vladimir Putin)
and than saying: haha you American idiots are too dumb because you couldnt get at least one price and our Russians got ten or more…
Make no mistake,the Nobel prices are a propaganda tool for the West in order to “show” how the west is the center of Modernity while they fly on Russian missiles to the Russian built space station cause the Americans are too dumb too construct their own…
Zigfeld who wrote this article is truly such an retarded individual ,she is so stupid that you shouldn`t even argue with her,the more she talks the more idiotic nonsense comes out of her mouth!Typical Jewess…
Care to respond to your countryman on his anti jewish attitude Michael?
Gladly:
Ruski,
LR is not a typical Jews. Quite the opposite. Typical Jews are logical and mature.
Also, typical American Jews like Russia more than do average Americans.
LR is very atypical.
> typical American Jews like Russia more than do average Americans.
Let me elaborate on that: becasue of our own terrible experience with the Holocaust and other hatred, it is considered a no-no among Jews to express any hatred towards any culture. Yes, there are some Jews who hate other cultures. But they are in the minority and they keep their views to themselves: otherwise, they will be ostracised by the Jewish society.
Thus, when I first found out that LR is Jewish – I didn’t believe this. It is incredibly rare for a Jew to openly preach ethnic and cultural hatred and to take pride in that, like LR does.
Well, having talked to settlers regarding the Palestinians, I would dispute most of your opinon.
Depends on where you are I guess.
Andrew,
I have to compliment you on having one great quality: punctuality and reliability. Whenever anybody says anything nice about Jews or Russians, or anything inspiring about the friendship and love between different peoples – you are always there with your rebuttal 2 minutes later. And you always give a gigantic number of quotes.
Why do you feel compelled to respond to anything positive? Do you feel that you cannot allow goodwill between people go unpunished?
Clearly, you are not simply a hatemonger. You are the Master Hatemonger. A man who spends his entire life compiling archives to “prove” that Russians and Jews should be hated, and should hate each other.
Why are you such a misanthrope? What physical or mental defects make you so bitter and misanthropic?
Oh I am very pro Jewish, and supportive of Israel.
However when you outright lie by stating that “But they are in the minority and they keep their views to themselves: otherwise, they will be ostracised by the Jewish society”
I am compelled to rebut.
Obviously you have not visited Israel or in particular the settlements recently.
There you will find extreme xenophobia towards non Jews, and it is quite normal and acceptable as part of Jewish society in that setting.
BTW Mr Tal, Russia cannot fix its problems with racism, hate crimes, and general xenophobia unless it recognises them.
People like you are directly responsible for Russian hate crimes through your pathetic attempts to pretend it does not exist.
You sir, are a major part of the problem, and your hate speech against Georgians, Ukrainians, Poles etc shows you are nothing but a hypocrite.
Andrew wrote:
> This attitude resulted in several disaster for the Russian space program,
Then how come the Russian space program is much more successful and reliable than the US space program? How come American NASA uses Russian shuttles to travel in Space, because American shuttles constantly explode?
————————
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Columbia_disaster
The Space Shuttle Columbia disaster occurred on February 1, 2003, when the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated over Texas during re-entry into the Earth’s atmosphere, with the loss of all seven crew members
Space Shuttle flight operations were delayed for two years by the disaster, similar to the Challenger disaster. For 29 months the station relied entirely on the Russian Federal Space Agency for resupply and crew rotation
————————
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/The_US_Has_No_Option_But_To_Use_Russia_Soyuz_Craft_999.html
The US Has No Option But To Use Russia’s Soyuz Craft
After 2010, the United States will likely be unable to deliver its astronauts to the International Space Station (ISS) on its own. For several years Russia’s Soyuz craft will remain the only vehicle available to do that, and the U.S. may find it hard to do without Russian cooperation.
The American concern has not a leg to stand on: Russia has always been noted for the scrupulous observance of its commitments. It never broke them even during the Cold War.
If worst comes to worst, Russia and the European Space Agency could together run the ISS without American participation. Aside from Russia’s facilities for transporting astronauts and supplies to the station, the European Automated Transfer Vehicle – Advanced Return Vehicle (ATV-ARV) system could chip in. Russia and the ESA are also working jointly on a manned transport system expected to be developed by 2015.
According to Vladimir Solovyov, flight director for the Russian segment, ISS systems are already capable of supporting a six-member crew, and in the future with new Russian modules, of bringing it to 10-member strength.
————————
So, once again, Russia is king in Space, while USA is about to be dropped from the ISS altogether and replaced by EU.
Russia is the one that builds new modules for the ISS and the only country that can get astronauts and cosmonauts to the ISS in one piece.
The reason why Americans cannot build a working shuttle may be because the shuttle is a “reusable” object, whereas the American industry specializes in disposable products. Everything here seems to be disposable, for one-time use. There is even a very old Russian joke:
While walking, a suddenly see
A pretty woman in New York commits suicide by jumping out of a skyscraper window in her underwear. A Soviet tourist was walking there at the time and saw her fall. When he got back, he told his Russian friends: “Everything in America is disposable. Everything! Even women: use a woman once – throw her out of the window.”
Now Michael, the Soyuz rockets have a pretty long list of launch failures too.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4SKPB_enGE264GE265&q=list+of+soyuz+rocket+launch+failure&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
The USSR/Russia has lost far more personnell in launch and reentry failures than the USA, including nearly 126 in ONE incident (though that was an ICBM test)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Failures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_accidents_and_incidents
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14346394//
Considering that the Shuttle only had two failures during its service life, with multiple launches and recoveries, it was pretty successful.
NASA is already working on a shuttle replacement, and by the way, NASA does not use “Russian shuttles” they pay to use Soyuz one shot rockets. Terminology old boy, get it right.
Where does it say the US is about to be dropped from the ISS? For one thing the entire operation will fail without the US financial contribution.
Once agin Mr Tal is telling porkies.
Hi Andrew,
I have a request for you. You see, Andrew, you are not the only person in the Universe. The world doesn’t revolve around you. You don’t own this blog. You feel that it is your duty to account for at least 95% of all lines of text here. But it really isn’t.
Other people are humans too. I come to this blog to have a productive dialog with interesting people from the opposing camp. I mean it as no insult, but I have had many dialogues with you and found them to be anything but productive. But I simply can’t shake you off. Whenever I try to have a dialogue with somebody else – be it LR or Corey or Robert – you are always there to stop it. I would write a short post, my “opponent” would write a short post back, I would write a short one again – and boom! You are always there with a 500-line cut-and-page diarrhea! After that, the entire thread is lost, there is no way for me and my opponent to continue our conversation.
It seems that you don’t even read what you cut-and-paste post, as when you posted about Kaganovich being Jewish and then claimed that these were not your own words. Clearly, you are a verbal terrorist: you just cut-and-paste random 500-line-long stuff to terorise other peoples’ discussions.
There is something in your sick mind that compels you to reply with your terrorist tactics wherever I post. You purposefully monitor posts here waiting for my posts and then always respond, even when you have nothing to say. Even when I wrote about Russian tennis, you have to terrorise my post with some drivel like: ‘Hey, Michael, why don’t you reply to some antisemite Dan who said something bad about Jews in some thread!”. Leave me alone! Let others see and reply to my post about tennis without you hiding my posts inside your verbal flood.
Please, please, Andrew, can’t you leave me alone? Can’t you let me converse with somebody else other than you? Please, little baby, let other people talk among themselves.
I promise not to reply to you posts, but please don’t reply to my posts for a few days, just to let me see how it feels to talk to anybody else besides you.
Now Michael, you are the one who accuses others of being “sub-primates”.
The whole world does not revolve around you either.
Your posts are full of lies, falsifications and half truths.
Not to mention your overt racism towards Caucasians in particular, and non Russians in general.
Most of your posts are considerable in length, so I suggest you keep your all too obvious hypocricy to yourself.
You accuse others of terrorism, but as usual you do exactly what you ask others not to.
So Mr Tal, why don’t you slink of back under whatever slimy neo-fascist rock you came from.
BTW, Robert and I are still waiting for you apology regards the Russian soldier giving the fascist salute. The one with the “Russian Ground Forces” bagde on his collar.
Seems your Russian radar or whatever it was was having an off day.
Then there is your failure regards the COE report on the war (more falsifications and somewhat selective editing)
If you don’t want to talk to me, fine, stop posting your lies and fabrications.
Otherwise, I will do a pit bull on you every time you open your mouth.
Andrew,
I promise not to reply to you posts, but please don’t reply to my posts for a few days, just to let me see how it feels to talk to anybody else besides you.
Nah, freedom of speech and all that.
I don’t do deals with the devil.
Crowd of dolts. One of new Nobel rcipients is OBAMA. Ha ha ha!!! What has he done? He is just forced to give up by Russia, China, Brasil, India, Iran etc. We say Yankee Go Home and Obama answers O`K we are going home immidiately. It is only single reasonable way for USA now, but it is not enough for international prize. As a result of awarding such US` people as Obama Nobel prise have lost its prestige and authority. But despite of that fact you are very proud of big number of USA` laureats of Nobel prize. It is not our problem because Nb is your toy. The real important thing for us is your behavior in our Near Abroad, and now I see that you became obedient. Thus I congratulate you with a big list of Nobel prize winners!
I’m Russian,
You make LR’s case for her opinions even better than she does with your posts! . > …now I see that you became obedient.< She couldn't have done better herself.
Andrew wrote:
> “I don’t believe that the level of anti-Semitism here is higher than in Western and Central Europe,” Levada said. Though he is partly Jewish, Levada said he had not encountered any personal anti-Semitism.
Do you even read what you post, Andrew?
Now Michael, I do read what I post, and I post in entirety.
With regards to the attitudes presented by the poll, 45% not wanting a relative to marry a Jew seems pretty anti-semitic to me.
With regards to Mr. Levada’s comment, people tend to add such fillials to avoid being targetted themselves.