EDITORIAL: Russia, Nation of Murdering Bastards

EDITORIAL

Russia, Nation of Murdering Bastards

20_3620politkovskaya1Last week was the third anniversary of the assassination of hero reporter Anna Politkovskaya.  The Kremlin commemorated the event in its usual bloodthirsty fashion.

First, it handed victory to the crazed mass-murdering dictator of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov, in his libel suit against the Memorial human rights organization over Memorial’s demands for justice in the killing of Politkovskaya’s successor, Natalia Estemirova.  Politkovskaya worked closely with Memorial in reporting on human rights issues in Chechnya, and Kadyrov hated them equally.

Then, it booted Reporters without Borders out of the country.  Last year it was Human rights Watch, this year RWB.  RWB has been tireless in standing up for justice in the Politkovskaya murder case, which has gotten exactly nowhere in the three years since her brutal, barbaric killing.

And for the capper, it toasted Vladimir Putins’ 57th birthday. 

Indeed, many would suggest that the killing of Politkovskaya was a birthday president for Russia’s KGB strongman ruler, so Russia was in a sense toasting the murder of Politkovskaya as well.  Of course, there was no official state rememberance of Politkovskaya at all.

Only a nation of true rat bastards could allow sacrilege this breathtaking to occur before the gaping eyes of a horrified planet.  A message is sent loud and clear that Russia does not want patriots or heroes, does not want to change, does not want civilization or prosperity, but wishes instead to wallow in a cesspit of barbarism and despair until, ultimately and inevitably, the nation is destroyed.

 

 

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87 responses to “EDITORIAL: Russia, Nation of Murdering Bastards

  1. “Of course, there was no official state rememberance of Politkovskaya at all.”

    I can’t even imagine the official state rememberance of someone who was living by blaming own country. Was she right or wrong, were it truth or lies in her writings.

  2. I’d rather call it “a government of murdering bastards”. Not “a nation”, the nation is more apathic than anything.

    Three years ago:

    Slain Reporter’s Last Story Bares Chechen Torture

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/world/europe/13chechnya.html

    Grainy images from cellphone videotapes showing Chechens being tortured were published in the Novaya Gazeta newspaper along with the last article of its slain correspondent, Anna Politkovskaya.

    The article, an unfinished column that presented new allegations of torture by security forces in Chechnya, appeared on the same day that the European Court of Human Rights issued a ruling holding Russia responsible for the killings of five Chechen civilians in early 2000 by Russian police officers.

    The victims of that incident included a 1-year-old boy and his young mother, who was eight months pregnant. All of the victims were shot, and the mother’s jewelry was stolen, the court said.

    • And yeah, she was a Russian too. You know.

    • Can’t agree with you there, friend. Russia has one of the highest murder rates in the world, and those who stand idly by are every bit as guilty as those who pull the trigger. Maybe more so.

      • And almost all of these on the other (receiving) side of the gun are also Russians/Russian citziens.

        • Would it make Russians less murderous if the victims of Russian killers were non-Russians? We don’t think so.

          • Wait, what.

            I mean, say, Cambodians killed 1/3 or so of their entire population in less than 4 years, astonishing everyone, but damn sure I wouldn’t call them a “nation of murderous bastards”, I’d even hestitate to call the guys (and gals and little kids) in black/green uniforms and red scarves “murderous bastards” because I know it was complicated.

            Are Rwandans “murderous bastards”?

            • I mean, take a look at this. It’s easy to imagine, say, all OMON are mindless robots, murderous bastards, etc. Right?

              So take a look at this:

              12/10/2006
              The man who gave second chances

              Anna Politkovskaya on the Chechen warlord Buvadi Dakhiev

              On September 13, the deputy OMON commander of the Chechen republic, Buvadi Dakhiev, was killed by a shot to the head in what has become a famous exchange of fire between Chechen and Ingushetian militias at the checkpoint between Chechnya and Ingushetia. Without going into the background of this conflict – which has been explained, widely disseminated and discussed – I would like to say something about Buvadi that could not be said during his lifetime. In doing so, I would like to honour the memory of this person who often helped me with my work, sometimes in moments which could have found a lethal end, had it not been for his help.

              Buvadi was an extraordinary personality, he was full of contradictions, consisted of two halves. If there is any association to be made, it would be with Nikita Khrushchev’s tombstone in the Novodevichiy graveyard in Moscow: one half entirely black, the other entirely white.

              http://www.signandsight.com/features/997.html

    • Slain Russian Journalist’s Last Article

      Published: October 13, 2006

      Following is a translation of an article published in the Novaya Gaeta newspaper on Thursday. It includes the last column by the newspaper’s slain correspondent, Anna Politkovskaya, and transcripts of videotaped torture sessions of Chechens.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/world/europe/13chechnya-text.html

      • Btw, what then happened to Beslan Gadayev? Well, nothing (he did not even became a subject of international spotlight following this article) and so presumably he’s in a prison camp now, if he’s still alive:

        Zaur Zakriev sent petitions to the Prosecutor’s Office of the Chechen Republic on all the outrages of human rights.

        However, the interrogation officer refused to open a criminal case upon torture, held over Gadayev. According to the lawyer, the interrogation officer explained the refusal, saying that the reason was his unwillingness to deal with Gadayev, “who doesn’t speak Russian well and needs an interpreter”.

        The given examples illustrate what can happen to former residents of Chechnya who decided to return or just visit relatives and friends. Permanent residents live with a constant feeling of danger to life, for newcomers the risk to fall under harassment, to get a trumped-up case, to be tortured is even higher.

        http://www.memo.ru/2007/12/19/1912071eng.htm

  3. anna politovskaya was a true hero, her courage and bravery was truly amazing. she was relentless in trying to expose atrocitise committed against chechens by the russian gov’t. putin is a murder and a war criminal, i wonder if he could be brought to hague court for all the war crimes he is responsible for.

    i am also a huge supporter of freeing chechnya from heavy chuckles of russian colonization for more than two centuries. it makes me sick knowing that russians committed what amounst to genocide in order to hold on to that TINY piece of land, when its the largest country on earth.

  4. this is what what Valerya Novadvosakay has said about chechnya:

    “The problem of Chechnya can have no resolution in the existing reality. The Chechens had the bad luck to emerge in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, as a matter of fact, nobody needed that small piece of rock and drop of oil.

    Old Russia was on the way to rich and fertile Transcaucasia, and for 200 years burned, shot, humiliated and destroyed that strategic patch of geopolitics in its path.

    Soviet Russia took revenge on the local population for not kowtowing and for their self-esteem.

    Yeltsin’s Russia took revenge on that tiny dissident speck for having lost forever the large and fat pieces of the empire which were gone without compensation and with impunity.

    At the expense of that graveyard and ruins, Putin’s Russia has been resolving its problem of consolidating the majority by resorting to common hatred and the blood bonds of the common imperial inferiority complex. ”

    this is one of the very few deocumantaries that exists about chechnya, since putin blocked all media acess into chechnya so he could freely continue commiting atrocitise and torture against civilians.

    “May 2004 For Chechen civilians, Russia’s ‘clean-up’ operations amounts to little more than genocide. Even Russian soldiers condemn their actions in Chechnya. When Ivan volunteered to fight in the second Chechen war, he had scant understanding of what he would experience. …”

  5. Looks like our Jewies are becoming more and more desperate…
    Look you stinking apes,never again will the Jewish scum own the media and economy in Russia like in 90s,never,never,never again,you can badmouth us until you turn blue…

  6. Yes,I am a fanatical antisemite.
    We Russians achieved what noone else did,we freed ourselves from the Jewish yoke .
    The Jewish influence in the Russian media and economy ,where they through theft and scemes came to power was utterly destroyed by Putin.
    Now the media is completely in the hand of aryan Russians,and thats why you Jews are so angry…
    But as the saying goes:The dogs bark,the caravan continues…

    • Too bad your leadership would not admit the same. But the anti-Semitic nature of your society is clear to many people in the West including me, so no big surprise here

      • of course they will not,they are not that stupid,we have interests in collaborating a few more years with the West and hiding the truth but believe me we hate you with a passion…
        We know very well who owns the American mass media,The Federal Reserve and Wall Street and Hollywood and who are the real warmongers in the US not only when it comes to Russian interests but also other countries like Iraq,Iran etc…
        We are and we will stay your arch enemy…

        • @Yes,I am a fanatical antisemite (…) and Hollywood and who are the real warmongers in the US not only when it comes to Russian interests but also other countries like Iraq

          “Countries like Iraq” that happen to be populated mostly be Semites? Of course, in your non-”paralell” universe they might as well be aryan Semites.

    • Dan,

      Can you recommend any ‘aryan’ restaurants in Moscow? Do they have flambéed ‘tentacles of Zionism’ as an entrée?

      Really, you should ask mum for more pocket money so you can get out more.

    • @aryan Russians

      I have a question, Dan. Do you happen to know why Uncle Adolf and his friends planned to kill or deport all of them aryan Russians from Europe to make place for Germans?

      I’m asking you because I’m really curious about this and you sound well informed.

  7. all the russians who keep silent when brave russian journalists are killed are complying.

    all the russians who are silent when THOUSANDS of innocent chechen civillians are being murdered are guilty and of what happened in chechnya for not speaking out against one of the worst atrocities of late 20th century.
    russians are guilty when they don’t opposte ethnic cleansing of thousands in georgia, and illegaly bloody occupation of two georgian regions.

    russian press has dehumanized and demonized chechen people, most russians i’ve talked to don’t even think of them as human beings, many russians think that the holocaust against chechen people was well deserved. not only that MAJORITY of russians justify what happened.

    Dan, your bigotry and anti-semitism is unforunately shared by many russians, as is their view of people from caucasus being less than human.

    • I don`t know in which paralell universe you live but the oblast Itchkerya (name for Chechnxa)is rebuilt,has a government and is a peacful part of Russia.

      We don`t need any moral lectures from Americans that are responsible for the death of over 1 million Iraqis.

      You Americans are blood stained criminals,you are the scum of humanity…

      • @I don`t know in which paralell universe you live but the oblast Itchkerya (name for Chechnxa)is rebuilt,has a government and is a peacful part of Russia.

        It’s not “oblast”. It’s a “respublika”.

        Well, anyway let’s see some recent reports,

        Gunman killed in shootout in Chechnya

        GROZNY, October 8 (Itar-Tass) — A participant in illegal armed formations was destroyed in an exchange of fire in Chechnya, ITAR-TASS learnt at the law enforcement bodies of the capital on Thursday.

        On Wednesday, an armed clash of law enforcers with a gang of up to eight people occurred in a forest near the settlement Duba-Yurt of the Shali region during the holding of a search operation there.

        Serviceman of DefMin injured in attack in Chechnya

        GROZNY, October 8 (Itar-Tass) — A senior lieutenant of the Defence Ministry was injured as a result of firing on an observation post in Chechnya, ITAR-TASS learnt at the law enforcement bodies of the capital on Thursday.

        Man killed, two soldiers injured in Chechnya blasts

        MOSCOW, October 6 (RIA Novosti) – An unidentified man has been killed in a blast in Chechnya’s Vedeno District, local police said on Tuesday.

        In another Chechen district, Urus-Martan, two contract soldiers were injured in a blast last night. A combat helicopter that arrived to pick up the injured soldiers came under gunfire attack. No casualties were reported.

        Policeman killed in militant attack in North Caucasus

        GROZNY, October 4 (RIA Novosti) – A policeman was killed in an attack by unidentified assailants in Russia’s North Caucasus Republic of Chechnya, the republic’s interior ministry said on Sunday.

        The policeman was shot dead by attackers in Chechnya’s capital, Grozny, late on Saturday. His service gun was stolen, the interior ministry said.

        Khaki-clad Chechen leader says kills 8 rebels
        Fri Oct 2, 2009 11:48am EDT

        GROZNY, Russia, Oct 2 (Reuters) – Kremlin-backed Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, dressed in combat fatigues, declared he would track down and destroy rebels sheltering in the mountains and said eight had been killed in operations on Friday.

        The ex-rebel, accused by rights groups of a campaign of violence against rivals, was shown on the state Vesti news channel giving orders by radio to troops in the south Russian region occupying a sensitive position near energy corridors.

        A surge in shootings and bombings in Chechnya and the neighbouring territories of Dagestan and Ingushetia has raised questions about the Kremlin’s ability to keep control of the mainly Muslim region. Analysts see a danger of the region descending into open civil war, fuelled by Islamist militancy, clan rivalries, corruption, poverty and brutal law enforcement.

        Sounds really “peacful”. Either that or this must be lies of them Jewish media.

        • Peac[e] in Chechen “[o]blast” continues:

          One police officer killed, 12 injured in Chechnya blast

          GROZNY, October 9 (RIA Novosti) – One police officer was killed and at least 12 injured in an explosion on Friday evening outside a market in Chechnya’s capital, Grozny, investigators said.

          Before the explosion, militants attacked a police van with a grenade launcher, but the vehicle was empty. Officers then came to the scene, and an explosive device believed to be a landmine went off, a spokesman for the republic’s investigators said.

          “As a result of the explosion, one police officer died, and 12 were injured and hospitalized. Two of them are in serious condition,” he told RIA Novosti.

          According to preliminary information, no civilians were injured in the attack.

  8. only hope i have left is that this evil empire will fall just as soviet union did, i don’t see russian people demanding change or justice.

    • The evil empire is the US that is run by a gang of Jews who control media,institutuions and the economy(Wall Street) and it is in the state of demise…
      China,Russia,Arab countries have already agreed to over time drop the dollar,when this happens say goodbye America

      • Roosiyski Fed-a- Rat Nation, is going down first.

        Already Moscali had 3 such collapses in the just the last century. The US has more inertia, and will outlast Roosha, even with US Jews having some extra proportionate power.

        The recent example you just gave us, why your neighbors dislike Rooskie Chauvinists, and why you cannot live with others.

        Much worse, you cannot hide your hideous nature of Moscow, like your nearest neighbors. Moscali do not think that Ukraine should exist as an independent Nation. So you behave badly and show your disdain and bullying.

        So if I have to pick living next to Jews or Moscali, who do Dan, think I would pick? Hint… At least the Jews are easier to be around. Like this blog.

        • Keep on dreaming.
          85% of the population are ethnic Russians,in contrary to the US we are a nation state with a homogenous ethnicity thats why we never will disintegrate unlike the US which is comprised by all kinds of ethnicities (Hispanics,Blacks,Whites,Jews) that basically despise each other,the WASP population is decreasing .
          When the dollar is abolished as the world reserve currency this will worsen the economic situation dramatically and as a consequence possibly lead to uprisings and civil war in the US.
          Even through the megalomanic hardships we went through the last century which costed us nearly 40 million deads we survived and for the first time we have a national democracy,with intelligent leaders who know how to advance our economy.
          The general mood in Russia is a positive one unlike in the US.

    • In this case your fate is to die of cold when the gulf stream slows down. Oh wait, i forgot – maybe the “alternative sources” of energy will become a replacement of ~1000.000 nuclear stations, maybe.

  9. ….and hello New Zealand?

  10. Do not compare America’s invasino of Iraq to Russia’s brutal invasion in georgia and chechnya.
    When America invaided iraq it did so with EU, UN and all othr major international monitoring groups present , and free acess of press. America removed bloody dictator Sadam Hussein from power and is now rebuilding the whole country. America never targetes civillian population in iraq. Not to mention more than 100,000 thousand civilian american volunteers are in iraq providing help.

    When russia invaided georgia it blocked all international monitoring, they conducted ETHNIC CLEANSING of more than 130,000 georgians are still will not allow any ethnic georgian to return to their homes. Russian soldiers burnt, looted and destroyed georgian villages and terrorized local population.

    Russia did not only not allow any international monitors in chechnya, they blocked all press from being able to film any footage of what was going on there. any journalist who tries to investigate what happens in chehcnya gets murdered. Russians in chechnya had a “filtration camp” Chernokozovo that detainees, including women and children, have been raped and subjected to brutal torture. not to mentino russian forced in chechnya killed around 200,000 thosuand innocent civillians out of nation of only 1 million. All of this simply because chechnya wants to be independnet of russia.

    today in chechnya:
    “Russia’s poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led Army, commits every atrocity imaginable on a daily basis. Robbery, murder, rape, looting, torture, and kidnapping, are just a few of the things Russia’s Army is known for. Civilians there claim that Russian soldiers often kidnap Chechen citizens and hold them for ransom. If the family is unable to pay, the soldiers simply murder the person and dump their body”

    • Kate, you’re doing it wrong. You attempt talking to “Dan” like if he was a rational, sane, educated human being. But he’s just a stupid racist, so mock him or ignore him.

      • Keep badmouthing as much as you want.
        You invaded a defenseless country and according to reports (even Western resources) slaughtered 1 million Iraqis.
        Don`t forget the Holocaust in Vietnam (3,5 million deads)…
        Like it or not,the truth is that you Americans are a nation of murderers…

        • Hahahaha Dan, the actual “western sources” such as “Iraq Body Count” put the total as:

          between 93,492 – 102,016.

          Most of whom have been killed by Islamist (Russian supplied) insurgents.

          http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

          As for the “holocaust in Vietnam”, I presume you mean the Russian inspired North Vietnamese holocaust against the republic of South Vietnam, in which the North Vietnamese communists and their Russian “advisors” presided over the murder of 2,500,000 innocent civillians.

          Now Dan, why dont you talk to Michael Tal/Phobophobe about what a wonderful place Russia is to be Jewish LOL.

          • Vietnam is not that easy. Well, everyone killed civilians. Including the South Vietnamese govt killing their own civs too. And then there are things few people know about, for example the allegations of extreme brutality by the South Korean forces in Vietnam. Or how the mountain tribes and other ethnic minorities (like the ethnic Khmers from the Mekong Delta) were opressed and massacred by all ethnic Vietnamese, from Southern and Northern armies alike and the Viet Cong too (so their only friends were the the CIA and US Special Forces). And then of course were the sideshow wars in Laos and Cambodia. Heck, even Chinese “People’s Liberation” Army invaded communist Vietnam later and Vietnam in turn invaded the Khmer Rouge “Democratic” Cambodia.

            @http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

            I think it’s pretty odd how they include dead Iraqi policemen in “Documented civilian deaths from violence”:

            Recent events
            Wednesday 7 October: 11 dead

            Baghdad
            Abu Gharaib: hand grenade kills 2
            Amiriyah: roadside bomb kills 1

            Ninewa
            Mosul: bomb kills 3 police, gunmen kill 1
            Talkeef: magnetic bomb on car kills 1

            Diyala
            Between al-Saadiya and Imam Wees: bomb kills 3 police

            • Well thats true, all sides killed civillians in Vietnam, but the communists did it more, much more.

              As usual.

              • I don’t know about this. But mostly because I don’t know how many were killed in terror and “land reform” campaigns in North.

                According to Rumel,

                Perhaps of all countries, democide in Vietnam and by Vietnamese is most difficult to unravel and assess. It is mixed in with six wars spanning 43 years (the Indochina War, Vietnam War, Cambodian War, subsequent guerrilla war in Cambodia, guerrilla war in Laos, and Sino-Vietnamese War), one of them involving the United States; a near twenty-one year formal division of the country into two sovereign North and South parts; the full communization of the North; occupation of neighboring countries by both North and South; defeat, absorption, and communization of the South; and the massive flight by sea of Vietnamese. As best as I can determine, through all this close to 3,800,000 Vietnamese lost their lives from political violence, or near one out of every ten men, women, and children.1 Of these, about 1,250,000, or near a third of those killed, were murdered.

                • Anyway, as of “the” Vietnam War (or the “American War”):

                  Since many estimates here and later will be so extrapolated, the date taken for the beginning of the war is statistically important. I selected January 1960 based on those considerations given in Death By Government.2 That is, as evidenced by their activity, such as the building of the Ho Chi Minh trial, secret speeches by North Vietnamese leaders, orders to their operatives, and the creation of political front organizations in the south, by this date Hanoi clearly had prepared the way for and had begun a sustained guerrilla and military effort to take over the country. This means that the war lasted for 15.33 years.

                  However, the war was not equally violent and deadly for each of these years. It was far less intense in the early years than after the full American involvement in 1965. To take into account this possible shift in violence, therefore, I calculated three extrapolations for each estimate, where I made “years of war” successively equal to 12, 13, and 14. Even then this may seem to under or overly weight the estimates, especially for the early 1960s before the United States was fully involved; or those for the period of greatest violence during 1966 to 1969. In any case, I will subsequently check on these results by comparing them against total war-dead estimates.

                  …so the most lethal phase coincede with the full US involvement. Anyway, even before “the” war:

                  Finally, we can turn to democide. That for North Vietnam involved in the early years a terror devoted to eliminating non-communist nationalists, anti-communists, and those who were pro-French (lines 266 to 275). Once the war against the French was almost over Hanoi turned to destroying and rebuilding the rural economic and power structure. This period, from 1953 to 1956, is very significant and the estimates are very confused. I have accordingly outlined in the table all the estimates associated with it so that the mode of calculation and associated subtotals for this period can be clearly distinguished.

                  Among the first campaigns was that to “reduce rent,” which really involved ridding the countryside of rich, powerful, and bourgeois peasants. (line 279). There is only one estimate of the associated democide, and for it the source (Hoang Van Chi, a Vietnamese nationalist with first hand experience) cites Professor Gerard Tongas who was in Hanoi during these years (he left in 1959), and which he claims to be accurate.3 I will therefore rely on this estimate in the subsequent calculations.

                  Once this campaign was completed and the countryside softened up, “land reform” proper took place (this was the taking of land from those who owned more than a defined amount and giving it to landless peasants– a preliminary to full nationalization of the land). There are major problems in estimating those who were killed or died in the campaign. The estimates cover different periods; and some cover strictly the “land reform” campaign while others appear to mix up the “rent reduction” campaign with the “land reform” or “political struggle” campaigns, with on going repression and retaliation (lines 312 to 318), or with democide associated with the suppression of rebellions (lines 322 to 325). I try to handle this by dividing “land reform” estimates in terms of their ostensive inclusiveness. Thus I first present estimates of “executions” (lines 282 to 288); then those executed and otherwise “killed” (lines 292 to 298); and then those who also otherwise died (i.e., “dead”–lines 302 to 308), such as those tagged as wealthy peasants who were deprived of their land, officially ostracized and thus denied food and shelter. Consequently, in consolidating the “land reform” dead (line 309), I made sure that the figures subsumed the consolidated killed estimates (line 299), that this in turn subsumed the consolidated execution estimates (line 289), and that this subsumed the rent reduction killed (line 279). In determining the final democide “land reform” total, I only added the final “land reform” dead (line 309) to those killed in political struggle, etc. (line 319), and the suppression of uprisings (line 326). The probable democide for this four year period then totals 283,000 North Vietnamese (line 329).

                  But then there was also those who died in prison or at forced labor from 1945 to 1956. One estimate of 500,000 dead (line 335) from President Nixon, which may have been based on secret intelligence estimates, cannot be accepted without some publicly available confirming information or similar independent estimates. Based on other estimates of the prison/camp population I assumed a 50,000 camp population per year and an unnatural death rate of 2 percent per year, on par with the Chinese rate4 and much lower then for the Soviet gulag.5 This gives me a low of 24,000 dead (line 336). There is not enough information to estimate a high or mid number.

                • This is a fairly good site (By a Vietnamese doctor)

                  “VI

                  THE HIDDEN KILLING FIELDS

                  Throughout the history of mankind, there have never been any people who wantonly destroyed the lives of their compatriots, wasted and misused human and natural resources, and national wealth to an extent comparable to what the Vietnamese Communist leaders have done.

                  Of the Communist success stories, it can be said that they were extremely successful in their policies of massacres, imprisonment, tortures of millions and millions of innocent people around the world. At the same time, they did their utmost to destroy the religions of East and West. They also succeeded in demolishing the cultures and traditions of people under their domination, and building walls of divisions and mutual hatred between people within the same countries, and members of the same families. In their goals to install dictatorial rules, they carried out inhuman, immoral policies, and cynically violated human rights, degraded human dignity.

                  These policies have been implemented in VN during the past 50 years. And they continued to be implemented even more systematically at a time when the human condition of the people and the economic and social disintegrations warranted immediate and radical changes.

                  The Communist rulers are, in fact, seating in the midst of mountains of bones and rivers of bloods of millions of innocent citizens, and those who have laid down their lives for freedom and human rights. The VC are holding on to power in the face of millions of people being unemployed, empoverished, in need of education, freedom and human rights. Following is a listing of some of the numbers of people of all walks of life who were killed or died during the 50 years of the Communist war:

                  2,000,000 or more civilian population and troops killed between 1945 and 1954 under the Communist “national salvation” (cu+’u quo^’c) banner.

                  47,000 or more persons were killed or shot dead at the people’s courts or left to die of starvation, or committed suicide under the Land Reform Program in North VN in the 1950s;

                  1,600,000 or more South Vietnamese people killed by the Viet Cong from 1962 to the end of 1974; of this number, 10,000 were killed during the Te^’t Offensive of 1968;

                  100,000 VC troops killed during the Tet Offensive;

                  300,000 or more South Vietnamese troops and civilians killed between January and Apri11975;

                  254,000 or more South Vietnamese troops killed during the war;

                  500,000 or more boat people died in the South Sea, by starvation, sickness, sea storms, or Thai pirates. Under Plan #2 (or Plan B) the VC organized boat people’s exodus to collect gold for the treasury .Each person paid one to three gold leaves to be placed on boats which were often overloaded, then overturned; in some cases they were sunk by the VC onshore security agents. These incidents occured mainly offshore Ra.ch Gia’ and Vu~ng Ta`u;

                  70,000 to 80,000 political prisoners died in “ca?i ta.o” Camps since 1975; hundreds of escapees were killed or died in the jungles;

                  100,000 or more VC troops killed in the Cambodian war; hundreds killed by land mines or snipers. According to a former VC member, the graves of the dead volunteers spread from Be^’n So?i, Ta^y Ninh, to Ho^`ng Ngu+., from the outskirts of Phnon Penh to Siemrep and Battambang, Pai Lin, and Xa(`m Lo^’t. N one of these were sons of party members;

                  20,000 or more Vietnamese emigres in Cambodia killed since 1975 by the Cambodian people;

                  Thousands of relocated people in the New Economic Zones died of a variety of causes;

                  Thousands of villagers and farmers died of landslides caused by uncontrolled

                  deforestation, land mines left from the war, wild animals, especially dislocated

                  elephants, due to the destruction of forests for timber;

                  At present, tens of thousands of Vietnamese Communist workers in Eastern European countries, Germany, resettlers in Cambodia, and boat people in Hong Kong and Southeast Asian Refugee Camps are either persecuted or mistreated;

                  The statistics of the killings and deaths during the VC war will be much higher if we go back to 1930 when the Vietnamese Communists began to cause death to the people with the Nghe^. An Soviet uprising untill 1945.”

                  http://ngothelinh.tripod.com/50_years_communist_crimes.html

                  • @100,000 VC troops killed during the Tet Offensive;

                    Not that many, they didn’t have 100,000 to begin with.

                    For on the evening of 31st January, 1968, 70,000 members of the NLF launched a surprise attack on more than a hundred cities and towns in Vietnam. It was now clear that the purpose of the attacks on the US garrisons in September had been to draw out troops from the cities.

                    The NLF even attacked the US Embassy in Saigon. Although they managed to enter the Embassy grounds and kill five US marines, the NLF was unable to take the building. However, they had more success with Saigon’s main radio station. They captured the building and although they only held it for a few hours, the event shocked the self-confidence of the American people. In recent months they had been told that the NLF was close to defeat and now they were strong enough to take important buildings in the capital of South Vietnam. Another disturbing factor was that even with the large losses of 1967, the NLF could still send 70,000 men into battle.

                    The Tet Offensive proved to be a turning point in the war. In military terms it was a victory for the US forces. An estimated 37,000 NLF soldiers were killed compared to 2,500 Americans. However, it illustrated that the NLF appeared to have inexhaustible supplies of men and women willing to fight for the overthrow of the South Vietnamese government. In March, 1968, President Johnson was told by his Secretary of Defence that in his opinion the US could not win the Vietnam War and recommended a negotiated withdrawal. Later that month, President Johnson told the American people on national television that he was reducing the air-raids on North Vietnam and intended to seek a negotiated peace.

                    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/VNtet.htm

                    • Thats true Robert, his figures were a too high on that one. Most of the others seem reasonable.

                      From Rumel

                      http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB11.1.GIF

                      Killed by NV (civillian dead) 1,699,000 (944,000 of them in North Vietnam)

                      Killed by South Vietnam (civillian dead) 90,000

                      Killed by others (civillian dead) 54,000.

                      Total dead, civillian and military both sides and all causes 3,761,000.

  11. russia- world’s largest country commiting genocide in chechnya, ethnic cleansings in georgia and atrocitise in order to annex tiny territorise that do not belong to them in the first place, russia today is trully a shameful nation.

  12. Dan @Even through the megalomanic hardships we went through the last century which costed us nearly 40 million deads we survived and for the first time we have a national democracy,with intelligent leaders who know how to advance our economy.

    What a joke, please post some more for us Ukrainians and Jews, to impress us.

    Some Facts for you to explain about economics:
    Rooshan military export business is the only Roosiyski export other than Raw materials. Why when Rooshan needs commercial product manufacturing?

    Problems with that Stupid burning Sub continue. Just like that sinking sailor drowning Pootin’s Kursk. Roosha shows incompetence.
    http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Repairs_of_India-bound_Russian_sub_hit_by_lack_of_funds_report_999.html

    Then there is the Aircraft Carrier that just cannot be sold to the Indians. Till it is repaired. So Roosha will buy the French one for Savok.

    The Planes sold to Libya are no good.
    http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/The-Mysterious-MiG-Mess-10-4-2009.asp

    So what can Rooshan Savoks produce that the world would buy, other than more lying Savoks?

  13. “Dan” seems to be the third relative of Borat (after “Agrippa” and Fedor) posting here. The Kazakh KGB seem to have taken a liking to this blog.

    • Well, there were some Russophiles who have appeared on this board from time to time. But I think none of them was a raving lunatic to the same extent that Dan is. It seems all of those previous guests were really driven by their naive and misplaced “pride,” but none appeared to be as openly racist genocidal maniacs as Dan is.

      I wonder if he is an aberration (which we can find in every country including the U.S.). Or, does he really reflect the thoughts and feelings of the Russian public at large. If the latter is true, I fear the coming of the second Holocaust and worse.

  14. And by the way “Dan”, the “Aryan Russians” thing sounds funny, given that most Russians are a combo of Finno-Ugric, Turkic and Mongoloid tribes that adopted the language of the ancestors of present-day Ukrainans. And given the low fertility rate of “Slavic” Russians as opposed to Muslim Russians, Russia will become an Islamic republic a lot sooner than any “Western” country.

  15. A. you are absolutely right . There are no
    ” russians ” , slavic or aryan , there are only moscovites that are a residue of
    Tataro Mongol , Ugro Finnish tribes who ,
    could not even understand each other
    until they were christened and given the
    language of the ancestors of present day
    Ukrainians . That is why the moscovites do not have their own history and are
    constantly stealing Ukrainian history
    and passing it of as their own .

  16. Muscovy [moskali] stole the name Rus from the Ukrainian people. So, when you say Kievan Rus, you are referring to the present day Ukraine.

    The very name “Russia” reflects its nomadic nature. From earliest times their northern tundra was known as Muscovy. It was not until Muscovy started building its wannabe “European” empire that Muscovite propagandists adopted the name “Russia” as part of their efforts to hijack neighboring Ukraine’s history (Kyivan Rus’) as their own. In fact, the name “Russia” has nothing whatsoever to do with the “Rus’” of Kyivan Rus’.
    “Russia,” pronounced “Rass-I-ia” in Russian (NOT “Roo-ssI-ia”), derives from the Ukrainian verb “rozsiyaty,” meaning to scatter, as with the sweeping movement of the arm when seeding a field with grain. The early Ukrainians described their northern neighbors as “Rossiiane” – “the scattered ones” – which in fact, with their small nomadic settlements scattered all over the cold and forbidding northern tundra, they were.

    http://cybercossack.com/?p=1408

  17. Yes,I am a fanatical antisemite

    Reason enough to be ignored by the prudent or banned.

    Robert is there any troll bait that you won’t jump at?

  18. I think the best decision would be to let Chechnya go, and then wait until Europe prays us to take it back using even nukes if needed.

    • BS! Don“t even respond to their Kate`s propaganda !
      We simply shouldn`t give a damn what the West says.
      Take the best from them(technology transfer) and don`t care about their moaning.
      Asia will be the superpower (both economically and military)of tomorrow,the West is in a state of demise anyway,they have no leverage over us,just look at last years Georgia crisis…

  19. Just one question…

    What the Russian Super Patriot politkovskaya
    acquired american citizenship for????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    • @What the Russian Super Patriot politkovskaya
      acquired american citizenship for????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

      Wll, for being born in NY (as a daughter of a Soviet UN diplomat)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. LES // October 11, 2009 at 12:07 am | Reply

    Muscovy [moskali] stole the name Rus from the Ukrainian people. So, when you say Kievan Rus, you are referring to the present day Ukraine.

    The very name “Russia” reflects its nomadic nature. From earliest times their northern tundra was known as Muscovy. It was not until Muscovy started building its wannabe “European” empire that Muscovite propagandists adopted the name “Russia” as part of their efforts to hijack neighboring Ukraine’s history (Kyivan Rus’) as their own. In fact, the name “Russia” has nothing whatsoever to do with the “Rus’” of Kyivan Rus’.
    “Russia,” pronounced “Rass-I-ia” in Russian (NOT “Roo-ssI-ia”), derives from the Ukrainian verb “rozsiyaty,” meaning to scatter, as with the sweeping movement of the arm when seeding a field with grain. The early Ukrainians described their northern neighbors as “Rossiiane” – “the scattered ones” – which in fact, with their small nomadic settlements scattered all over the cold and forbidding northern tundra, they were.

    Better tell this delirium to the yushenko fans… It’s a pity, there are only 3% of them left in Ukraine, hohoho…

  21. It’s a pity, there are only 3% of them left in Ukraine, hohoho…

    Leonid Get circumcised like Putin and Lazar Kaganovich

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/13/chechnya.iantraynor

    Russia has a big problem. The Ukrainians continued to want their own land, their own Church, their own language, their own laws, their own traditions, their own food, their own farms, their own wealth, their own borders – and especially their own freedom and independence.

    As much as Russia tried to paint itself as Ukraine’s “big brother,” Ukrainians viewed it as a rogue young neighbor yet to be civilized. So, what would any self-respecting conqueror do with such insolence? The answer is obvious. Win what hearts and minds you can and kill the rest. And, that’s exactly what Russia has been trying to do for the last 400 years.

    Although Russia’s methods have changed over the years, they have always been consistent with what was available and feasible at the time. There are limits to how many people you can kill with a sword. No matter how good you are, you still have to kill them one at a time. While you’re killing one, many others can escape. The countryside is open, transportation is slow, and communication depends on how fast a man can travel.

    The process of Russification was not willfully less intense in the early stages. It was just slow and inefficient due to the lack of more efficient means. The emergence of more effective means to control, communicate and transport was paralleled by the emergence of ever more efficient means of segregating and killing those who insisted on being Ukrainian.

    By the early 1930s, Russia had sufficient technology to move the destruction of Ukrainians to a level of slaughter not seen before or since in human history. Supported by the political will of Stalin, Lazar Kaganovich became the father of modern genocide. Joined by Pavel Postyshev and Viacheslav Molotov, these three Stalinist henchmen were the “Commanders of the Holodomor.”

    Kaganovich effectively closed Ukraine’s borders, controlled the flow of information, confined the target population, physically removed or destroyed all available food and then sat back and watched millions and millions of Ukrainians starve to death. He topped off his masterwork by killing millions more by traditional means, like shooting or freezing them to death in Siberia. Kaganovich’s kill rate remains unchallenged to this day – 10 million dead in 500 days.

    Such massive slaughter is hard to fathom, hard to manage and hard to cover up. Kaganovich brought a whole new meaning to the word “diabolical” as he took to all three challenges like a duck to water. The disposal of bodies was a problem – not just the sheer numbers, but also the need to dispose of them in a way that left the least evidence.

    So, they dug huge pits near railroad sidings, dumped in the bodies interspersed with logs to aerate the fires and burn as hot as crematorium ovens. The smell of burning human flesh permeated the countryside. Those who smelled it never forgot it – they took it to their graves in their nightmares.

    Foreign reporters were taken on escorted tours of Potemkin villages, greeted by children neatly dressed for the occasion and holding large loaves of bread – which was soaked in kerosene to make sure the starving children didn’t eat it. Survivors report traveling for days in eastern Ukraine without seeing any living thing – not just no people, but also no dogs, no squirrels or other animals, rarely even a bird – the bone-chilling silence broken only by the wind.

    Into this wasteland of death Kaganovich brought native Russians, many from the military, to repopulate those regions of Ukraine that were devastated by the genocide. Many fled and had to be brought back numerous times. The abandoned houses reeked of death, the plows turned up human skeletons. But in time they stayed put, and gradually those regions became largely Russian-speaking.

    Unlike other masters of genocide, Kaganovich died in comfortable retirement in Moscow in 1991, at the ripe old age of 98, attended by two faithful servants. When asked if there was anything he regretted about what he had done, he replied, “I only regret that I didn’t finish them off.

    • Couldn’t have said it better myself!
      Right on all points!

    • You sick idiot!
      Do you know that Stalin was an ethnic Georgian,Kaganovich a Jew?
      Further,do you know that in the Kuban region between Volgograd and Rostov (Southern Russia) also millions of people were killed like in the Ucraine?(were a big chunk of Russians died?)
      Of course you know that,but you want with such baseless accusations to foster hate between Ucranians and Russians,unfortunately for you and your American puppet Yuschenko that is not going to happen.
      Just see what will happen in the elections next year,Yuschenko can only stay if he falsifies the elections big time or proclaims himself a dictator.
      Ucraine is little Russia,Koev is the mother of all Russian cities were the first Rus was established.
      There is no such thing as a seperate Ucranian nation.
      I think it is only a matter of time when all Russians will be reunited again.

      • But Dan, isn’t Stalin the 3rd greatest Russian of all time by popular acclaim?

        You love him so much you are rehabilitating him in school text books, and the Moscow metro for example.

        Far far more Ukrainians and other non Russians died during the famines, all part of the Russification process.

      • >> 1932-33 The KREMLIN REMOVES ALL FOOD FROM Ukrainian villages, does not allow food to enter Ukraine, does not allow Ukrainians to leave Ukraine, or their villages, and creates GENOCIDE by starvation in Ukraine! {about ten million (10,000,000) Ukrainians are killed in this GENOCIDE called HOLODOMOR!} Dead bodies, from an artificially created starvation, litter the streets of Kiev, like cigarette butts in NYC. Meanwhile, there are no dead bodies on the streets of moscow! In fact, there are banquets in moscow. In fact, dead bodies, from an artificially forced starvation {PRONOUNCED GENOCIDE}, were strewn in the streets, throughout all of the cities in the Ukrainian territory that was occupied by the moskali! Now the kremlin will have to re-rewrite their history books {AGAIN} and claim that dead bodies littered moscow in 1932-33, also?

        Ethnic Russians later poured into these vacated {PRONOUNCED GENOCIDE}, cultivated and furnished areas, dramatically altering their ethnic makeup and laying the ground for bitter disputes that continue to this day.

        >> 1934 This is a quote from a communist leader speaking in the Kharkiv region in 1934:

        “Famine in Ukraine was brought on to decrease the number of Ukrainians, replace the dead with people from other parts of the USSR, and thereby to kill the slightest thought of any Ukrainian independence.”
        - V. Danilov et al., Sovetskaia derevnia glazami OGPU_NKVD. T. 3, kn.2. Moscow 2004. P.572

        Yet one of Stalin’s lieutenants in Ukraine stated in 1933 that the famine was a great success. It showed the peasants “who is the master here.

        Kartashev, an OGPU investigator, willingly spoke of his part in persecuting kulaks: “By my personal count, I shot thirty-seven people and sent many more to the camps. I know how to kill quietly. Here’s the secret: I tell them to open their mouth, and I shoot them close up. It sprays me with warm blood, like eau de cologne, and there’s no sound. I know how to do this job — to kill.”

        >> 1930’s In the 1930′s the authentic kobzar tradition of wandering musicians in Ukraine came to an end; there was also a wave of arrests of bandurists in the Kuban. Many of these arrested bandurists received relatively light sentences of 5-10 years camp detentions or exile, usually in Siberia. Also, most of the Ukrainian bandurists were killed!

        The Kuban area also suffered HOLODOMOR because, in 1929, 55+% of the area was Ukrainian. The so-called Russians who died in the Kuban and Lower Volga were almost entirely Ukrainians. Entire regions of Ukraine were depopulated and Ukrainians were replaced by Russians.

        Throughout the 1930s Ukrainian bandurists were constantly being arrested and taken off for questioning which may have lasted some months. Many were constantly harassed. Whereas in the early 1930s those incriminated received relatively light sentences of 2-5 years the period starting with 1937-38 the sentences were often fatal and immediate – death by shooting.

        In 1937-38 large numbers of bandurists were executed. Documents have survived of the many individual executions of bandurists and kobzars of this period. So far the documentation of 41 bandurists sentenced to be shot have been found with documents attesting to approximately 100 receiving sentences of between 10-17 years. Often those that were arrested were often tortured to obtain a confession. Sentences were pronounced by a Troika and were dealt out swiftly within hours or days of the hearing. The families of those that were executed were often told that the bandurist had been sent to a camp without the right to correspond.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kucherenko_shoot.jpeg

        Many Ukrainian bandurists and kobzars were persecuted by the authorities that controlled Ukraine at various times because of the association of the bandura to the Cossack past and aspects of Ukrainian history which the kobzars would glorify in their songs and epics.

        Kobzars were usually blind musicians and poets. When the kremlin exterminated {PRONOUNCED – GENOCIDE} them, the kremlin was also destroying the culture, traditions, and history of the Ukrainian people.

        It is hard to establish the exact number of bandurists who were persecuted in various ways. As more information has been coming to light, the number of musicians who were arrested, interned or executed has continued to rise. It is unmatched in any other folk music or bardic tradition in Europe.

        >> 1937 The demise of the USSR and the opening of archives have shed light on this matter by revealing the results of the previously suppressed 1937 census. According to the 1937 census, the number of Ukrainians, within the USSR in 1937, decreased by 16%. Meanwhile, based on the 1939 census, the population of Russia increased by almost 30%.

  22. Agrippa, stop with your bs FSB propaganda, if russia let chechnya go chechens can have their land back and live freely, was not massive deportation by stalin and now genocide agains them not enough? you ignorant idiot

    • Blah-blah-blah

      FSBsuccessorofKGB, Stalin, Holodomor, Vodka, Bears

      (over 9000 facepalms here)

      I’m not even saying that Europe would never really want to have the free fundamentalistic “republic” of Ichkeria near the border of “democratic” state (oh wait, who the hell cares about that specific state when it’s not about blaming Russia?). I just think that Europe don’t really want more precedents of separatism, ’cause it’s kinda carries the known danger for EU in tote and some european nations in particular. Europeans may think that their condition is quite stable, but remember it’s only dozen of years passed between “uncrashable union” and Belovezh treaty.

  23. I think you’ve mistaken me with someone else.

    Could be. But, what is a given on this site is the working-in-tandem, paired up, new names with their sockpuppet, same bs trolls that show up like clockwork and the bait the unwitting.

    Not every new moronic troll deserves a reasoned response. It’s what they do. It’s how they degrade a site into oblivion.

    • I’m only toying with him. It’s Kate and Andrew who appear to take him seriously.

    • Penny,

      Have you told your shrink, treating you for xenophobia, about your paranoid fear of sockpuppets and trolls?

      Both russophobia (as any other form of xenophobia) and conspiracy theories are symptoms of the same underlying illness: paranoidal schizophrenia.

      BTW, how do we know that LR is not your own sockpuppet? You levels of intelligence certainly appear to be quite similar.

  24. Andrew,

    His estimates are only educated guesses.

    Myself, I think US forces killed more civs than in his estimate, in particular from air attacks (in South and North Vietnam, but also in North Vietnam-occupied areas of Cambodia and Laos). Most of the bombs dropped were dumb bombs, and most of them in area (“carpet”) bombings. Also the helicopter policy of “free-fire zones” was basically shooting at everything that moves (“if it moves it’s VC, if it stands still it’s a dumb VC”).

  25. The vast majority of carpet bombings in SV were around bases such as Khe Sahn or Da Nang.

    There were a lot of carpet bombings of the Ho Chi Mhin trail too.

    Carpet bombing was actually fairly rare (contrary to popular belief) outside these areas, and the use of B-52′s was mainly restricted to North Vietnam.

    Osprey’s publication “B-52 units in combat” is a fairly good look at the subject.

    • Not uncommon, they were heavily bombing for example the “Iron Triangle”, targeting the VC “underground cities” tunnels near Saigon. Also yes, the Ho Chi Minh Trial aka North Vietnamese-held eastern Cambodia.

      • Compared with the rest of the air effort they were much less common.

        The vast overwhelming majority of air strikes in Vietnam (north or south) were by F-105 Thunderchiefs, A-4 Skyhawks, A-6 Intruders and A-1 Skyraiders.

        B-52′s while significant in payload, were simply part of the overall operation. The vast majority of their sorties were against the Ho Chi Minh trail, in support of US/ARVN bases under attack, and as you mentioned against tunnel complexes and NVA/VC troop build ups.

        They were not used to indiscriminately bomb civillian/residential areas, and many missions were called off due to the fact that the target forces had left the area.

  26. @I’m not even saying that Europe would never really want to have the free fundamentalistic “republic” of Ichkeria near the border of “democratic” state

    And this is why they (OSCE) sponsored the peace talks and then supported democracy in the free republic of Chechnya (such as helping to organize the elections). They just did too little, worried they would “offend Russia” (and the UN did exactly nothing – not even any humanitarian aid for the war-devastated republic).

    Unlike Russia, which was eager for the democracy (and the state altogether) there to fail and fall – so then they would invade again and bring a corrupt (and “fundamentalistic”, too) dictatorship and Stalinist-like cult of personality. For example, sponsoring the “Islamic” gangster’s Adam Deniyev’s murder of foreign ICRC workers and then sheltering him in Russia (he returned with their tanks, as “deputy head of Chechnya”).

    • Very true Robert.

      It is a pity that the members of the OSCE did not recognise independant Chechnya at that time.

      As I recall, only Georgia recognised Chechen independance in any way shape or form.

      • It really is a pity. What does Chechnya have to do with being Russia? Or all of Caucasus for that matter. Has the current Georgian Gov’t recognized Chechnya as independent? They really should.

    • Btw, the story of Adam Deniyev’s demise in 2002:

      Chechen quisling blown up during television filming

      Nothing in his life became him like the leaving of it. Adam Deniyev finally got his 15 minutes of worldwide fame by being perhaps the first man to be blown up while recording a TV show. The deputy leader of the pro-Kremlin Chechen administration, he was widely held to be responsible for a wave of kidnappings in Chechnya, the murder of six Red Cross nurses in 1996 and the curious abduction of the Russian journalist Andrei Babitsky last year. Some Chechens might even nominate Deniyev’s death as their favourite TV moment.

      His killing on Thursday night, disclosed yesterday by the Kremlin, took place while he was being filmed reciting from the Koran on the roof of the TV station in Avtury in the south of the war-shattered country. It is further evidence that the Chechen guerrilla war is not over, despite repeated assertions by the Russian President, Vladimir Putin.

      Adam Khozhayevich Deniyev changed his first name to Shamalu to build up his image as a man of Islam. His claim to be a good Muslim did not sit well with his entourage of machine-gun toting bodyguards, his hand in organized crime and his good connections with the not very Islamic regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. But he was, first and foremost, the Kremlin’s Chechen, very close to the Russian secret police, the FSB ­ the new branding of the old KGB.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chechen-quisling-blown-up-during-television-filming-681343.html

  27. I believe it was Sheverdnadze’s government or possibly Gamsakhurdia’s.

    I don’t think the recognition was ever retracted however. Forgotten maybe, but not retracted.

    Georgia had the only embassy of the Ichkeria republic as far as I am aware.

    I am sure Robert can correct me if I am wrong.

    • Gamsakhurdia. He then lived in Chechnya for a while during the Georgian Civil War.

      After his death he was even buried in Grozny with full state honors. Two years ago his body was returned to Georgia.

      The story of this:

      In exile in Chechnya, Gamsakhurdia had been granted a special residence on Chekhov Street in central Grozny. The locals were hospitable towards him and called him by the Chechen name “Ziyavdi” amongst themselves.

      In February 1994, the Chechen government dispatched a delegation to Tbilisi, led by Chechen vice-president Zelimkhan Yandarbiev. After talks with the Georgian authorities, Gamsakhurdia’s body was flown to Chechnya.

      On February 23, Grozny commemorated the 50th anniversary of Stalin’s deportation of Chechens to Central Asia. Before the military parade started, the coffin containing the body of the Georgian leader was carried on a gun carriage in front of the presidential palace. A steed with a felt cloak thrown over its back followed the carriage according to Caucasian custom.

      Gamsakhurdia’s funeral took place on February 24. The entire route to his residence from the presidential palace was strewn with red roses and his body was buried under one of the two weeping willows outside his former home.

      “I remember perfectly the day, on which Zviad Gamsakhurdia was buried,” said
      driver Sharani Akhmadov, 52, who delivered sand for Gamsakhurdia’s grave that day.

      “Gamsakhurdia’s grave was under one of the two willows. When the coffin with the body was lowered there, hoarfrost on the willow that had melted in the sun started dripping onto it. Strangely, the drops fell only on the side of the grave! The other side of the willow was almost dry, as was the other tree planted just a few metres away from the first one. The impression was that the tree was weeping over the grave of the Georgian president. I was not the only one to notice the fact, everyone present there did.”

      During the first Chechen war of 1994-6, the burial place was badly damaged by a mortar shell. This area of the Chechen capital was also the scene of intensive fighting in the second conflict that began in 1999. Gamsakhurdia’s family decided to rebury his remains for a fourth time and the reburial was supervised by Abu Arsanukayev, the former head of Dudayev’s bodyguards.

      “I reburied Gamsakhurdia’s remains with my own hands, as soon as his family expressed the wish to,” Arsanukayev recently told Georgia’s Imedi television.

      “There were several men with me. The fighting was very heavy on the territory next to Kirov Park and on Chekhov Street, and we reburied him so that the grave did not get lost or dug up by someone and become an object of trade.”

      Arsanukayev said that Gamsakhurdia had been reburied in a safe place inside Chechnya and that only a handful of people in Grozny and Tbilisi knew about the whereabouts of the grave.

      Gamsakhurdia’s widow Manana Archvadze told IWPR that she knew where the grave was, but she said security considerations prevented her from saying so publicly. “I am waiting for the official negotiations between Georgia and Russia to end,” she said. “Of course, I know where he is buried today, and I know where his final burial place will be in Georgia.”

      Some leading Zviadists, however, are sceptical about the widow’s claims. Gamsakhurdia’s prime minister, Besarion Gugushvili, told IWPR, “I think the remains were lost when Grozny was occupied by the Russians. They are most likely to have been taken to Moscow, otherwise it’s difficult to explain why the reburial process has been so long drawn-out.”

  28. Yeah im pretty sure it was Gamsakhurdia, you’re right.

  29. @B-52’s while significant in payload, were simply part of the overall operation. The vast majority of their sorties were against the Ho Chi Minh trail

    This is exactly what I’m talking about.

    The still-incomplete database (it has several “dark” periods) reveals that from October 4, 1965, to August 15, 1973, the United States dropped far more ordnance on Cambodia than was previously believed: 2,756,941 tons’ worth, dropped in 230,516 sorties on 113,716 sites. Just over 10 percent of this bombing was indiscriminate, with 3,580 of the sites listed as having “unknown” targets and another 8,238 sites having no target listed at all. The database also shows that the bombing began four years earlier than is widely believed — not under Nixon, but under Lyndon Johnson.

    The impact of this bombing, the subject of much debate for the past three decades, is now clearer than ever. Civilian casualties in Cambodia drove an enraged populace into the arms of an insurgency that had enjoyed relatively little support until the bombing began, setting in motion the expansion of the Vietnam War deeper into Cambodia, a coup d’état in 1970, the rapid rise of the Khmer Rouge, and ultimately the Cambodian genocide.

    The data released by Clinton shows the total payload dropped during these years to be nearly five times greater than the generally accepted figure. To put the revised total of 2,756,941 tons into perspective, the Allies dropped just over 2 million tons of bombs during all of World War II, including the bombs that struck Hiroshima and Nagasaki: 15,000 and 20,000 tons, respectively. Cambodia may well be the most heavily bombed country in history.

    A single B-52d “Big Belly” payload consists of up to 108 225-kilogram or 42 340-kilogram bombs, which are dropped on a target area of approximately 500 by 1,500 metres. In many cases, Cambodian villages were hit with dozens of payloads over the course of several hours. The result was near-total destruction. It was estimated that between 50,000 and 150,000 Cambodian civilians were killed by the bombing.

    The Cambodian bombing campaign had two unintended side effects that ultimately combined to produce the very domino effect that the Vietnam War was supposed to prevent. First, the bombing forced the Vietnamese Communists deeper and deeper into Cambodia, bringing them into greater contact with Khmer Rouge insurgents. Second, the bombs drove ordinary Cambodians into the arms of the Khmer Rouge, a group that seemed initially to have slim prospects of revolutionary success. Pol Pot himself described the Khmer Rouge during that period as “fewer than five thousand poorly armed guerrillas . . . scattered across the Cambodian landscape, uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty, and leaders.”

  30. Robert wrote:
    > Gamsakhurdia was quite insane.

    That’s an understatement. Gamsakhurdia was as insane and genocidal as Stalin himself. Of course, Saakashvili is only marginally less insane. I love the way he eats his ties when perplexed:


    Saakashvili eats own tie on air BBC.
    BBC commentator: “Saakashvili chews over his next move…”

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×3809439
    Saakashvili eats his tie – Is this guy nuts?

    Or look at this:

    http://www.rusk.ru/images/2008/12596.jpg

    http://p-newsDOTru/uploads/posts/08-08/1219300207_clipboard02.jpg

    http://compromatDOTru/imgup/converted_27503.jpg

    http://ndgazetaDOTorg.ua/img/e2008_08_12_031.jpg

    http://www.ljplusDOTru/img4/s/h/shurigin/_saakashvili2.jpg

    http://expertDOTru/images/online/08/11-saak_smi.jpg

    Of course, Saaka himself knows this:

    http://www.ruskDOTru/newsdata.php?idar=178661
    Saakashvili complains: “After our very first meeting, Putin has started treating me like I am insane. Unfortunately, some people in the West agree. But it is simply that I have a hot temperament…”

    And even Shevardnadze, even though not nearly as insane as the other 3 Georgian leaders, suffered from paranoia and, as President, “uncovered” assassination plots to kill him every couple of months.

    • @That’s an understatement. Gamsakhurdia was as insane and genocidal as Stalin himself.

      No, what I meant he was insane in a Romantic (as in Romanticism) nationalist way. Way after his times.

      Just like Dudayev, btw.

      Because these times belong to the fat and always-unshaven cynical thugs like Kokoity.

      Now, can you PLEASE f-ing stop yapping about this tie? It makes you look like a complete Russian retard.

      It’s like if I was ALWAYS talking about how Putin likes to suddenly lift a random little boy’s shirt and kiss him on his stomach and this was my only argument.

      Oh, your “Or look at this” links don’t even work anymore. I guess you should consider stopping your mindless (braindead?) mass copy-paste tactic.

      • Or like Kadyrov.

        @Of course, Saaka himself knows this: http://www.ruskDOTru/newsdata.php?idar=178661

        Of course, this link work doesn’t work too.

        Tell me: Are you now copy-pasting what someone else wrote long time ago?

        And was your so-called “quoting” of the Georgia report also a copy-paste from someone else’s manipulation, and you simply didn’t read the report yourself so you didn’t know it’s a lie?

        Or was this, for a change, at least your own half-assed attempt at spin, and you assumed no one here would actually read the original and find out the truth?

        Tell me about this because I’m quite curious now (I always assumed the latter, but maybe I was wrong and you’re just very naive and not dumb).

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