EDITORIAL: Watch “The Italian” and “A Woman in Berlin”

EDITORIAL

Watch “The Italian” and “A Woman in Berlin”

The_ItalianSomeone who wants to take a good hard clear look at Vladimir Putin’s Russia cannot do better than to screen Andrei Kravchuk’s devastating 2005 drama “The Italian” (winner of the 2005 Berlin Film Festival), currently airing on the Sundance movie channel.  Filmed at a real orphanage outside St. Petersburg and cast with real orphans, including a brillant and heart-wrenching performance by Kolya Spiridonov as the title character, the film shows Russia as it really is, in all its brutal coldness and deprivation.

It shows the barbaric conditions in which ordinary Russians live, full of contempt and corruption, and the far more brutal torture they inflict on those not lucky enough to be “ordinary” such as orphans.  Every single frame in the movie is a slice of Russia life, just exactly as it is lived today under Vladimir Putin. Truly, a picture is worth a thousand words.

It also sends the message that Russians, like the little hero of the film, who are willing to risk everything to stand up to the power of their government, its criminality and its corruption, can win. Just as the USSR fell, so to the malignant KGB regime of Vladimir Putin can collapse if Russians who love their country are willing to demand democracy.

In theaters now is another film that offers mighty insights into the horror tht is Russia, namely “A Woman in Berlin.”  This harrowing portrait of a German woman caught up in the Red Army’s systemmatic rape of German civilians during World War II reminds us that the USSR was not the innocent victim it pretends to be. Paired with a video screening of 2007’s “Katyn” about the barbaric massacre of Polish officers by the Red Army in the Katyn forest, an act they tried to blame on the Nazis, the film is a essential clarification of the realith that the Russians were just as bad as Hitler’s forces if not worse.  And let’s not forget that Stalin and Hitler were best buddies before the war, signing a secret pact dividing up Eastern Europe and selling the West down the river.

See these movies, and tell others about them.  The world must be warned about the neo-Soviet nightmare being brewed in Russia by the clan of proud KGB spies who hold power before it is too late — if it is not too late already.

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86 responses to “EDITORIAL: Watch “The Italian” and “A Woman in Berlin”

  1. You shouldn’t forget that Russians are the first victims of communism (although they sometimes forget that themselves).
    Mass murder in Katyn, mass rape in Europe and the like should, therefore, be called by its real name: Soviet policy.

    • We don’t agree. It was possible to believe that canard before Russians freely chose a proud KGB spy to be their ruler and turned a blind eye as he wiped out their newly won freedoms.

      To be sure, Russians suffered because of communism. But they were not victims, they brought that suffering on themselves — just as they are doing even now.

    • To say that rooshans were victims in Katyn is outright historical ignorance, or just advocating the kremlin’s disinformation.

      Ukrainians, and others, were the victims of Katyn!

    • You forget one theing Andres, the Russians CHOSE communism, then they violently exported it to their neighours.

      Russians were not the victims of communism, they were the perpetrators.

      • I guess he is trying to say they were deceived in the beginning and then there was no choice once Lenin got firmly entrenched followed by Stalin, of course. A weak argument, to say the least, but one that I’ve heard before.

      • Nobody elected the Bolsheviks, and Russians were a minority among the ruling circles during the first years of the Red regime.

        • Hi dilldohead,

          You stated:

          **Russians were a minority among the ruling circles **

          Your Spin-Doctor semantics come from the kremlin, or a fantasy land, which makes me assume that you are an orphan from the insane asylem.

          All-Russian Central Executive Committee (Всероссийский Центральный Исполнительный Комитет or ВЦИК, or, romanized, VTsIK), was the highest legislative body in the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic in the interim of the sessions of the Congress of Soviets, and the only one with the power to pass constitutional amendments. It was elected by All-Russian Congress of Soviets and functioned in 1917-1937.

        • Wrong as usual dittohead, according to historical sources, in 1922 ethnic Russians made up 72% of the bolshevik party.

          “These were effects, not causes; icons of a much larger truth. The vast majority ofBolshevik party members (72 percent in 1922) were ethnic Russians;”

          Pg 34 – Slezkine “The Jewish Century”
          http://ish.stanford.edu/files/slezkine_chapter3.pdf

          First members of Council of People’s Commissars:

          Chairman: V. I. Lenin – 1/4 Russian, Tatar, German, Jewish (allegedly, although the relative from who he gets his Jewishness, the records show, was also a practising Christian and was even known for his hostility towards Jewish people)
          Commissar of Agriculture: V. P. Milyutin – Russian
          Army and Navy: V. A. Ovseyenko, N. V. Krylenko, P. V. Dybenko – Russians
          Commerce and Industry: V. P. Nogin – Russian
          Education: A. V. Lunacharsky – Ukrainian
          Food: I. A. Teodorovich – Polish
          Foreign Affairs: L. D. Trotsky – Jewish
          Interior: A. I. Rykov – Russian
          Justice: G. I. Oppokov – Russian
          Labour: A. G. Shlyapnikov – Russian
          Nationality Affairs: I. V. Stalin – Georgian
          Post and Telegraphs: N. P. Avilov – Russian
          Treasury: I. I. Skvortsov-Stepanov – Russian
          State Property – Karelin V.A., Russian
          Local Government: Trutovsky V.E., Russian

          Lenin – Russian
          Bubnov – Russian
          Kamenev – (Paternal) Jewish; Lost spot in 1926
          Trotsky – Jewish. Lost spot in 1926
          Stalin – Georgian
          Krestinsky – Jewish convert to Christianity.
          Zinoviev – Jewish; Lost spot in 1926
          Bukharin – Russian
          Rykov – Russian
          Tomsky (real name Efremov) – Russian
          Molotov (real name Scriabin) – Russian
          Kalinin – Russian
          Kuibyshev – Russian
          Grigory Yakovlevich Sokolnikov – Can’t find information; may or may not be Jewish
          Dzerzhinsky – Polish
          Frunze – Romanian
          Voroshilov – Russian
          Rudzutak – Latvian
          Petrovsky – Ukrainian
          Uglanov – Russian
          Ordzhokinidze – Georgian
          Andreyev – Russian
          Kirov – Russian
          Mikoyan – Armenian
          Kaganovich – Jewish. Purged in 1956
          Chubar – Ukrainian
          Kossior – Ukrainian
          Karl Yanovich Bauman – from Latvia. May be Jewish, but executed in1938
          Syrtsov – Russian
          Postyshev – Ukrainian
          Zhdanov – From Ukraine; gentile.
          Robert Ivanovich Eikhe – Latvian
          Yezhov – Russian
          Khrushchev – Ukrainian
          Beria – Georgian
          Shvernik – Latvian

          Hmmm, lost of Russians there eh!

    • Yeah right. Many, many Russians blame Jews for destroynig the Tsarist Empire because some key figures in the October coup where Jews. Then they blame Georgians for betraying the ideals of the Revolution. Stalin was Georgian after all. And then, because of Khrushchev, they blame Ukrainians for tarnishing all the great things that were achieved under Stalin’s rule. Naturally they blame Balts (and others, too) for the collapse of the Khrushchevian-Breznevian paradise.

      Next in the blame line: Americans. The mythical “American advisors to Yeltsin” are, of course, responsible for Russia never developing a proper economy.

      • Mythical? You can find references to Åslund (not an American though), a frequent scribbler on Russian failures, two posts above.

        • If I advice you to hold your breath for an hour in order to stop agreeing with kremlomaniacs unquestioningly, are you going to blame Finns for the certain unfortunate outcome of the experiment?

          Anyway, Shock Therapy was successfully applied everywhere else in Eastern Europe. Maybe there is another reason for Russia’s perennial stumbling from failure to failure (through humiliation and embarassment)?

    • Sure, the 20 years of Bolshevik genocide 1918-1938 effectively beheaded Russian people: to name a few, there were expulsion and further repressions against aristocracy, clergy and the educated class as a whole, decossackization, dekulakization, korenization, two waves of famine etc. etc. etc. By the way, denial of any of these horrific facts is a faultless indicator of overt and impudent Russophobia.

      • As stated previously, the repression against minorities was far worse than what the Russians suffered.

        And the overwhelming majority of those killed during the famines were Ukrainians and other non Russian ethnics.

        Same in WW2, the majority of those who died were NOT ethnic Russians, and minorities were represented in the military far above their percentage of the soviet population at the time.

        • the overwhelming majority of those killed during the famines were Ukrainians and other non[-]Russian[s]

          Read carefully, I mentioned korenization as a tool to split the one nation into three different ones, desirably hostile to each other. This policy partially succeeded (due to ultiamte failure in Belorussia — which is still the only true Russian state as of today), thanks to Ioseb B. Jugashvili and Leizer M. Kaganovich, the true fathers of the Ukrainian nation as a separate entity.

          And as a descendant of those suffered from the famine of 1930s in Central Russia, I reject such statements as a chemically pure Russophobic attack.

          • Diddums ditt0head.

            Sure Russians died in the famines, but then ethnic Germans died in Hitlers death camps too.

            But the facts are that the Soviet Union was a continuation of the Tsarist empire.
            It comitted massive repression upon minorities, including ethnic cleansing in many cases amounting to genocide.

            The majority of it’s victims were NON Russian.

            As for your insinuation that it was only under the communists that Ukraine and Byeloruss became separate entities, more BS.

            The Ukrainian (Kievian Rus) and Belarus states are actually far older than Russia. They also have a long history of independance prior to being subsumed and opressed by their Russian cousins. It is intersting to note that their Russian “brothers” banned both languages as part of the “Russification” drive under Nicholas I in the 1840’s, just as they did to the peoples of the Caucasus (also far older cultures than Russia).

            • It’s called a language policy. Even the majority of those Belorussians who don’t like the idea of reunion prefer to speak standard Russian rather than fictional and virtually nonexistent language based on rural dialects.

              Just an example. The majority of Frenchmen speak standard French Langue d’Oïl, even in Southern France, (whose old local Langue d’Oc dialects are much closer to Català). And no one dare say it’s an ethnocide of Provençal people. Also, Germans are still Germans and communicate in standard High German, regardless of whether they’re Bavarians or Lower Saxonians, despite the fact that their local dialects are even far more distant from each other. After all, Greeks are still Greeks, οι Έλληνες, despite fact that, for example, hardcore κυπριακή διάλεκτος is largely unintelligible for an average Greek without special training or immersion.

              But whom do I speak to? Just casting the pearls…

              • Well, dittohead shows his true colours.

                Do you deny the “Russification” policy of the Tsarist empire (and the communists too), do you consider Latvian, Estonian, Georgian, Chechen, Azeri etc to be “non existant rural dialects” too?

                Russification caused immense damage and suffering to non Russian ethnic groups.

                Unfortunately vermin such as yourself are the reason Russians are loathed in every country they have occupied.

                Unfortunately you are the typical Russuli grori.

              • Sergey Shelukhin

                Oh and don’t even get me started about Caucasian civilizations. By the time Russia took over what remained of them they were decimated from the South, and if you take Armenia, the most respectable of the civilizations, if it wasn’t Russia it would have been Turkey. Those still controlled by Russia like Chechnya or Dagestan never had any civilization to speak of, unless you are with crazy tribe-supporters who consider Inuit civilization.
                Ditto for Middle Asia – Russia did more good than bad there.
                The only place where Russia was fundamentally wrong was the Baltic states and Poland. Well, all empires cannot be spotless, look at the British :)

                • Really? Georgians were civilised millenia before you Russians.

                  It is interesting to note, that after only 2 years of Russian “friendship” the Georgians were so desperate that they appealed to Turkey for assistance against Russian oppression.

                  Russians were and are genocidal scum.

                  • Sergey Shelukhin

                    Yeah, right. Previous independent Georgia
                    was successively pwned by Mongols, then Timurids, Ottomans, and Persians.

                    When Russians took over Georgia the protests were over the nature of takeover (which at that time happened all over the place, look at British r French ffs), but in fact Russia after the takeover protected Georgia vs Persia.

                    Check out Wikipedia:
                    “From 1803 to 1878, as a result of numerous Russian wars against Turkey and Persia, several formerly Georgian territories were annexed to the Russian Empire. These areas (Batumi, Artvin, Akhaltsikhe, Poti, and Abkhazia) now represent the majority of the territory of the present state of Georgia.”

                    So Georgians must thank Russian annexation for actual existence of most of their state!

                    For Armenia, check out 1920 Turko-Armenian war.

            • Sergey Shelukhin

              Since when did Kievan Rus become Ukraine?
              Kievan Rus was a bunch of princesdoms dominated by Kiev. Kiev, even during its height, rivaled with other towns both on modern Ukrainian and modern Russian territory. Over time, thru variety of factors, dominance moved Eastwards and finally to Moscow. Moscow then solidified it on the territory of Northern European Russia and Eastern Ukraine. Western Ukraine was controlled by Poland/Commonwealth.

              Moscow is the rightful heir of these princedoms and what was called Kievan Rus, the origins of Ukraine are a bunch of bandits who carved themselves a host between Russia and Poland.

              • By “variety of factors” I presume you mean Muscovy’s collaboration with the mongols (fairly similar to Soviet Russia’s collaboration with Nazi Germany)

                “Russians” are simply a bunch of Mongol tax collecting barbarians who stole the name of Ukrainian culture.

                Russia is also the “rightful heir” of the gulags. Russians are the greatest mass murderers in history, who make even Nazi scum look like sunday school teachers.

                • Sergey Shelukhin

                  No, Kievan Rus declined before Mongols, even made contact in Kalka river, due to economic factors, internal rivalries, and moving of the Church to Vladimir.

                  Moscow indeed gained edge over Vladimir by collaborating with Mongols. But it was not the same kind as Ukrainian death squads collaborating with nazies – Mongols never actually had an intention to exercise direct control over what is now Northern Russia, and Russian princes just collected taxes for them, and stole from them nearing the end of the yoke.

                  You are deranged, I’d rather cease talking to you. Source your insane claims, at least

                • Sergey Shelukhin

                  Oh and you forgot to reply to how Russia conquered ~half of modern Ukraine from the Poles and gave it to ancestors of modern Ukranian state, Cossacks first, and Ukrainian SSR second; – bandits from high road that are, by the way, now also glorified and white-washed by Ukrainian state itself.
                  How Lenin extended the Eastern Ukraine over the Russia territory (you never wondered why Crimea was Russian all along? Because it was attached by wide strip of Russian territory to Russia proper, ntil that strip was given to Ukrainian SSR in 1920s. You cna even still feel this in voting maps that are not East-West but Southeast-Northwest.
                  Then, of course, after WWII, Stalin had to give more territory stolen from Poles to Ukraine.
                  Then Krushev gave them Crimea.

                  And then Ukrainians woke up, hung over, and remembered that in between of being a bunch of bandits in 1964 and Russian/Polish provinces they were a great state!

        • Same in WW2, the majority of those who died were NOT ethnic Russians

          Jenseits von Gut und Böse, in FWN’s words. Nothing to comment.

          • They were Ukrainians, Belarussians, and a disproportionate number of Georgians, Azeri’s, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Khazaks etc.

            Sorry dittohead, but the truth hurts idiots such as yourself.

            • Let me call you an idiot reciprocally until you provide well-founded figures with sources. And as far as I’m sure you can’t do that (you cannot even name the ethnic groups properly, your knowledge is next to nothing), bear the title proudly. Bye-bye, გმადლობთ, ფეკალური მასები :-)

              • Come on dittohead, you post all sorts of inane rubbish here.

                Prove that the Russians suffered the highest per capita losses in ww2 why don’t you?

                After all, Ukraine and Byelorus lost over 25% of their populations in ww2, Russia lost about 10%.

                • Damn the Wordpess engine, it wipes out the &lttable&gt tags.

                • Excuse me dickhead, you forgot the civillian deaths in Ukraine and Belarus.

                  Total Soviet military dead from 1941–45, including partisans & militia, of the individual Soviet republics were 10.5 million[3, 23–35]:
                  Russia 6,750,000; Armenia 150,000; Azerbaijan 210,000; Belarus 620,000; Georgia 190,000; Moldova 41,000; Ukraine 1,620,000; Estonia 13,000; Latvia 18,000; Lithuania 27,000; Kazakhstan 310,000; Kyrgyzstan 70,00; Tajikistan 50,000; Turkmenistan 70,000; Uzbekistan 330,000.

                  Total war related civilian deaths, including territories annexed 1939–45, of the individual Soviet republics were 15.7 million[3, 23–35]:
                  Russia 7,200,000; Armenia 30,000; Azerbaijan 110,000; Belarus 1,670,000; Georgia 110,000; Moldova 120,000; Ukraine 5,200,000; Estonia 35,000; Latvia 220,000; Lithuania 345,000; Kazakhstan 350,000; Kyrgyzstan 50,00; Tajikistan 70,000; Turkmenistan 30,000; Uzbekistan 220,000.
                  The genocide of Roma people was 30,000 persons.[13,184]Jewish Holocaust victims, within 1939 borders, totaled 1,000,000.[14,244]

                  Military Losses
                  Military losses from 1939-1945, totaling 10.7 million, include 7.7 million killed or missing in action and 2.6 million POW dead, out of 5.7 million total POW captured, plus 400,000 paramilitary and Soviet partisan losses.[3, 20-21]
                  The official Russian Ministry of Defense figure for military deaths from 1941-1945 is 8,668,400; including 6,330,000 killed in action or died of wounds and 556,000 dead from non-combat causes[7,85] plus an estimated 500,000 MIA and 1,283,000 POW dead out of 4,059,000 total POW captured [7,236] These figues do not include additional casualties in 1939-40, which totaled 136,945: Battle of Khalkhin Gol in 1939 (8,931); Invasion of Poland of 1939 (1,139); and the Winter War with Finland (1939-40) (126,875).[7,51-80]
                  The estimate by western historians of Soviet military POW deaths is about 3 million out of 5.7 million total POWs in German hands[96].[17, Table A] Richard Overy has noted that ” The official figures themselves must be viewed critically, given the difficulty of knowing in the chaos of 1941 and 1942 exactly who had been killed, wounded or even conscripted”.[21,XV] The official Russian statistics for military dead do not include an additional estimated 1,500,000 conscripted reservists missing or killed before being listed on active strength, as well as an estimated 150,000 militia and 250,000 Soviet partisan dead, which are considered civilian war losses in the official figures. [3, 20-21] Total Soviet population losses included approximately 12 million men aged 18 to 39.[11,78]The names of many Soviet war dead are presented in the OBD Memorial database online [97]
                  Total Population Losses of the Soviet Union 1941-1945
                  A report published by the Russian Academy of Science in 1993 estimated that the total Soviet population losses from 1941-1945, within Soviet borders of 1946-1991, were 26.6 million out of a total population of 196.7 million, which included the annexed territories.[11,] [37]. Civilian deaths listed here of 12.4 million are for USSR within 1939 borders only, [98] and do not include an estimated 2.5 million civilian dead in the territories annexed by the USSR in 1939-1945 and the 215,000 Soviet war dead in the German armed forces.[7,278]-[24]. Civilian losses in territories annexed by USSR are included in totals of the Baltic states(600,000)[3,23-34], Poland(1,500,000) [42] [41]and Romania(300,000)[14,244]. Total Soviet war dead include losses include an estimated 2.5 to 3.2 million civilian dead due to famine in Soviet territory not occupied by the Germans[12,158]. Additional famine deaths which totaled 1 million during 1946-47 are not included with World War Two casualties.[3,20-21]
                  Soviet Era Statistics for War Losses
                  The deaths of 8.2 million Soviet civilians, including Jews, were documented from 1942-1946 by the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission[60,140]. The official Soviet era statistics for war losses list 25.3 million war related deaths. Total military losses of 8.7 million dead which includes 1.8 million missing in action and POW deaths out of 4.0 million total POW captured. Soviet sources reported civilian deaths in the German occupied USSR totaling 13.7 million, which includes 7.4 million victims of Nazi genocide and reprisals; 2.2 million deaths of persons deported to Germany for forced labor; and 4.1 million famine and disease deaths in occupied territory. There were an additional estimated 3.0 million famine deaths in the territory not under German occupation. These losses are for the entire territory of the USSR in 1941, including territories annexed in 1939-40[12,127] Documents from the Soviet archives list the total deaths of prisoners in the Gulag from 1941 to 1945 at 621,637. [12,175]. An independent Russian journalist believes the actual death toll may be as high as 1.7 million, when one takes into account summary executions and deaths of those forcibly deported during the war..

                  So lets see,

                  Ukraine 6,820,000 out of 28,111,007 = 24.26%

                  Belarus 2,290,000 out of 5,275,393 = 43.4%

                  Russia 13,950,000 out of 99,521,950 = 14%.

                  Then of course you also have to take into account the Russian tendency to “cook the books”, belittleing of the contribution by minorities was endemic in Soviet Russia, just as it was in Tsarist, and is in modern Russia.

                  Some sources give the number of Georgian war dead as high as 330,000 out of 770,000 men sent to the front (D.M.Lang, A Modern History of Georgia)

                  3. ^ Vadim Erlikman. Poteri narodonaseleniia v XX veke : spravochnik. Moscow 2004. ISBN 5-93165-107-1

                  • ‘Dickhead’? I don’t forget anything, I AM FUСKING TALKING ABOUT THE MILITARY DEATHS (= contribution to victory over Hitler) you boor, and you try to turn the tables. What I have really forgotten is that you are such an arrogant, ignorant and impolite Caucasus-residing bully so that you don’t meet the minimum requirements for any discussion. Throw your excrements at someone else, ნახვამდის.

                  • So?

                    Typical Russian attitude “civillians don’t count”.

                    Of course, as stated, the Russians were well known for inflating their own losses and reducing those of the minorities.

                    Russian “statistics” are not worth the paper they are written on.

                    BTW, your ranting shows you are losing the argument my greek geek friend.

                    Also looking at contribution by % of population, Georgia 770,000 men sent to the front from population of 2,249,636 is 34% of the ENTIRE population engaged, far higher per capita than Russia. Same goes for all the minorities, they just happened to be better soldiers than the Russians (who had a tendency to do mass surrenders unless stiffened up with the “warrior” classes from central asia and the caucasus. Just ask Zhukov.

                  • Sergey Shelukhin

                    Oh fun. Guess what, Ukraine and Belarus were on the direct path of invasion, whereas Russia was only partially conquered. Guess what, it’s pretty logical that regions to suffer the main force of the attack have more civilian losses.
                    If predominantly Russian military didn’t save your asses, in time it would have been 90% :)

                    • Actually Sergey, wrong again.

                      Although ethnic Russians made up the largest percentage of the Soviet Union, they were under represented in the army per head of population when compared to the ethnic minorities.

                      In addition, as stated by Zhukov, many of the ethnic minorities were much better material as soldiers, particularly the Caucasians (Georgians & Chechens) and the central Asians (Kazakhs, Tajiks etc) due to their warrior traditions and ability (unlike Russians) to think and use their initiative.

                      The only time the Russian army was “predominantly Russian” was during Barbarossa when due to political considerations in the 1930’s 80% of the Red Army was ethnic Russians with the remainder Ukrainians and a few token others such as the Caucasian mountain divisions. This is the army that made the greatest mass surrenders in history.

                      Only after the massive defeats did the Russians turn to the ethnic minorities, whom they then used to stiffen the army and inject some well needed spirit.

                      Russians were only around 50% of the Soviet armed forces during the period 42-45.

            • Sergey Shelukhin

              Sources?

  2. Dunderhead ,
    Your brazen ” katsap ” chauvinizm , pales
    only to your blind ignorance ! Claiming that
    Ukraine and Belorus are anomalies , ” created ”
    by Stalin etc ., only shows how backward you
    moscovites are . Before you belittle Ukraine’s ,
    Belorus’s , and Caucasian languages as dialects ,
    better check your moscovite” tongue “, ( yazik) .
    Hell, you don’t even have a word for
    language .
    Because you were colonized and christened
    by the Kyevan Rus , you obtained a language ,
    which was supplemented by Tatar , due to
    long term enslavement by your Mongolo –
    Tatar masters . Later came German , French ,
    Caucasian influence and there you are ; a
    ” russian language ” .
    Get your head out of the sand , you’re way
    over your head . Read “Andrew’s ” comments
    carefuly , perhaps you’ll learn something .

    • You are talking to a PhD in linguistics here, so please keep your extremely lame ‘Caucasian languages as dialects’ accusations to yourself, they’re only excusable for a retarded child. Chy w tobi zalyshylosya trochy mizkiw? :-)

      • I guess you degree in linguistics is supposed to impress us, but it does not. To deny that the Ukrainian or Belorussian languages are separate languages distinct from Russian is simply ludicrous. I cannot be a judge of this, but I do have some good friends among Russian-Jewish emigres and specifically asked them if they can read, write or understand Ukrainian. A couple said they could hear some familiar sounds but it did not go beyond that. None can speak Ukrainian.

        Moreover, even if the three above mentioned languages have developed from a common source, it does not even matter. If Ukrainians claim a separate ethnicity, who are you to deny them a right to have a separate culture and state? Ask French speaking Belgians or Swiss if they consider themselves French, and you’ll know that most of them do not. Or better yet, tell a Portuguese man he is really a Spaniard, and you will find out what ethnic pride is. Why should Ukrainians or Belorussians be different?

        So, your degree is unimpressive. Perhaps, you got from a Russian school, since your thinking seems to be infected by Russian chauvinism. Or maybe you just bought your degree. I found out on this blog it’s quite possible and common in Russia these days.

        • you[r] degree in linguistics is supposed to impress us
          Nah, it’s supposed to show that I’m not ready to have any discussions below certain level.

          None [of my Jewish friends] can speak Ukrainian.
          Huh, I even know some Russians who are completely lost in Nothern Russian villages due to pecularities of local rural dialects, which are in some aspects even more distant than is standard Russian from the Ukrianian. So what does it mean? Nothing, it only shows the degree of liguistic adaptivity of a certain person.

          If Ukrainians claim a separate ethnicity, who are you to deny […]
          Their claims is a real fact, and there’s nothing I can do about it and, moreover, I don’t deny this, but I only shed some light on the driving forces that have established the base for such clams.

          Or maybe you just bought your degree.
          Bwahaha. I’m certainly not a person who’s interested in any fake regalia.

    • Sergey Shelukhin

      Slavic languages, obviously, existed long before Kievan Rus and so did principalities out of which Kiev was for a time dominant but never a source. And it was dominant because of good position on trade routes, not because of some innate goodness.
      Russian languages was supplemented by Tatars a little, even though there were no enslavement, just tax dependency and raids, unlike the pwnage of Ukraine by the same Tatars plus Poles and Russians.
      Which doesn’t mean anything, by the way – many of the modern languages have much more influence from others, starting with, for example, English, which was thus supplemented when England was backwaters of Europe compared to France.
      As for Andrew; Andrew wouldn’t know his head from his nether parts, come on, Mongols were the major factor in decline of Kievan dominance? Mongols didn’t even invade by then! Kiev declined due to many other factors, like decline of trade routes (at the same time as Moscow was on a new trade route which contributed to its advance!), and constant feuds between oh-so-civilized Kievan princes. Then after the invasion Church moved to Vladimir, and then rose Moscow.

      • Hi sergy,

        I know that you are a moskal, but are you [or others] the assigned resident kremlin propagandist for LR , a clueless teenage troll who is taking a break from your endless video games, or just a plain old-fashioned delusional useful idiot who advocates the kremlin agenda?

        Russia did not even have a real language. What passed for spoken “Russian” was a garbled offspring of Ukrainian mixed with various local tongues. “Russians” spoke and wrote in French in the court of Peter I and German in Catherine’s. It was not until the nineteenth century, when Pushkin started writing in “Russian,” that Russia acquired a real literary language.

        The irony that Russia had to wait for the grandson of an Abyssinian slave to give Russia a language is not lost on anyone, especially since it was his grandfather (gifted to Peter I by the ruler of the Netherlands) who built Russia’s navy. All in all, it was a pretty dismal foundation for an empire.

        The very name “Russia” reflects its nomadic nature. From earliest times their northern tundra was known as Muscovy. It was not until Muscovy started building its wannabe “European” empire that Muscovite propagandists adopted the name “Russia” as part of their efforts to hijack neighboring Ukraine’s history (Kyivan Rus’) as their own. In fact, the name “Russia” has nothing whatsoever to do with the “Rus’” of Kyivan Rus’.

        “Russia,” pronounced “Rass-I-ia” in Russian (NOT “Roo-ssI-ia”), derives from the Ukrainian verb “rozsiyaty,” meaning to scatter, as with the sweeping movement of the arm when seeding a field with grain. The early Ukrainians described their northern neighbors as “Rossiiane” – “the scattered ones” – which in fact, with their small nomadic settlements scattered all over the cold and forbidding northern tundra, they were.

        PS this is part of my addendum to my comment at:

        https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/editorial-obama-panics-eastern-europe/

        If you read my comments in the above link, you will learn many things that are not in your soviet encyclopedia.

        PPS You made so many idiotic comments today that make me believe that you are orphan from the insane asylum.

        • Sergey Shelukhin

          1) There is no Ukranian history. Tell me how Kievan Rus traces to Ukraine? Where were Ukranians in 13th century? 14th? 15th?
          Ukrainian identity comes from bandits from Zaporozh host. Pitiful barbarians, runaway serfs from great states of Poland or Russia, that Ukraine now tries to glorify. Period.
          Kievan Rus was a bunch of separate polities, if you study some history as opposed to listening to propaganda, most of these were actually on the territory of modern Russia, like for example Novgorod, Vladimir, Suzdal.
          Kiev itself was often in conflict with both those and other cities in modern Ukraine and Belarus, such as Chernigiv and Polotsk.
          THEN, due to decline of the trade route to Constantinople and rivalries between princes, Kiev got weak and Vladimir, among others, got strong. Mongol invasion put a final nail in coffin of its prominent position.
          There were feudal rivalries in Vladimir region as well, until Moscow, due to position on new trade routes and taxation arrangement with the Horde, got to dominate the principalities that Kiev once dominated.
          Apart from those parts that were under Poland, (and should have stayed under Poland, if you ask me), in the West. Consolidation of principalities under Moscow also helped to throw away Mongol control, by the way.

          Your tundra comments seem to be at odds with commonly accepted version of history both in Russia and in the West, try to back them up with anything aside from articles on a stupid propaganda site that don’t really say anything?

          If you want BS linguistics, how about the name Ukraine – “Okraina”, backwaters of Russia! Of course, same as your powers of making derivative words, it doesn’t mean anything.

          As for language history, even though it’s a matter of debate which language is closer to original language of Kiev, but it doesn’t really matter – both modern Ukrainian and modern RUssian languages branched from it and are not descendants of one another.
          Of course, language itself is not relevant to anything at all. Most of the modern languages derive from, surprise, surprise, OTHER languages – trying to establish stuff based on who derived earlier is meaningless argument used by those who don’t have real ones. You know for example that nationalist Turkey in the mid-20th century had a theory taught at schools that all languages derived from Turkish and in Baltic states some claim that because their language changed least among European languages, it’s somehow has more merit because it’s somewhat closer to Sanskrit or whatever? You’re in good company.

          3) Main thing about the past, of course?
          Russia, like any empire from Caliphate to British, has made tremendous contribution to humanity. Of course, all of them did a lot of wrong and questionable things, but they also did a lot of great things.
          What of Ukraine? Name Ukrainian (not/not only ethnic, but identifying as such as opposed to Soviet) scientists? Writers? Musicians? Great explorers? Glorious generals? List will be very short. Compare it with Russian list.
          There is no lack of pitiful countries/regions like that in the world. First Ukrainians ran to Russia to protect them from Polish dominance, now they got free from Russia and “bark at the elephant” looking up to the USA for support and protection. Except in the old days the fashion was to get the Poles of the village and massacre them; now in more civilized times they just spew BS in the forums. That is all you can do.

          It is funny to see how Ukrainian politicians scrape for national heroes to bolster their pathetic identity – everyone, from writers who wrote most of their books in Russian like Gogol, to bandits from high road like Khmelnitsky or Mazepa, are in!
          Of course they have no problems for example, with the fact that Cossacks were allied with Crimean Tatars for quite a while, but mention how Moscow obtained advantage from Tatars with rabid anger, and other such things.

          As for other posts: you do not like my post, but YOUR post is full of personal attacks and rehearsal of the same unsourced BS about how Mongols screwed over the great Ukrainian nation.
          Try to refute something I said with less abstract notions than some mythical “tundra houses” – like names, places, battles, whatever.

          • Hi sergy,

            I forgot to mention that Polish was also the language of the the moscow court at some point in time. Because, they wanted the rooshans to appear “European”.

            • Sergey Shelukhin

              Never heard about Polish (when? sources?), but French for example definitely was, precisely for that reason. And Greek was the “higher class” language of Romans for quite a while. So what?
              See, I’m not trying to say that Russia is whit, fluffy and spotless good guy, I’m trying to say that Russia is empire just like any other empire with lots of good and bad sides, and undoubtedly great history.
              However this site, and fanboys of various states like Georgian and Ukraine, that have good and bad sides too but also have little history to speak of after 1200/1600 and very little merit in last millenia or at all, don’t have the perspective.

  3. Hi dilldohead,

    Do you expect people to believe statistics provided by a kremlin propagandist [also, photophobe]? From a book written by the kremlin and for the krimlin?

    Publication of sanctioned Soviet casualties and combat losses presented an official picture to counter views expressed in the 1990 publication of Viktor Suvorov, ‘Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War?’, Viking Press/Hamish Hamilton, 1990, ISBN 0-241-12622-3, which blamed the WW2 on Stalin’s treacherous preparations to attack the Hitler’s Gemany first, and reasoned that Soviet combat losses were held secret for half a century because they were caused not by alleged German military superiority, but by Stalin’s ineptitude in concentrating all country’s available materials and manpower in railroad cars, open storage, and airfields in the frontier zone. The thesis of the book is based on analysis of available data on troop numbers, weaponry, locations and behaviour, matched against technical specifications and Soviet tactics. The book of V.Suvorov became an instant success, and enraged the proponents of the official versions.

    A follow-up book under editorship of professor general-colonel G.F.Krivosheev addressed Russian and USSR combat losses in the wars of the 20es century, titled “Russia and USSR In The Wars Of The 20es Century. Losses in Armed Forces. Statistical research”, Moscow, “Olma-Press”, 2001.

    PS I gave you a respone to your other [above] kremlin Spin-Doctor comments in the links below. Also, you did not respond to my questions to you at:

    https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/say-it-loud-and-say-it-proud-i-am-a-russophobe/

    My expanded version is at:

    https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/editorial-obama-panics-eastern-europe/

    My third edition of this expanded comment was published at:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/putins_reset_button_pressing_u.html

    If LR allows me, I will do a fourth edition at LR.

    PPS I guess dilldohead and photophobe must drink a lot of vodka and are often drunk because:

    “He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts… for support rather than illumination.” – Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

    • Sergey Shelukhin

      Nice articles you have indeed! I actually read a couple, but couldn’t continue for fear of dying of laughter.
      So are you Ukrainian, or are you good ol’ US wingnut? Now it’s all confusing. Or Ukrainian wingnut? I hear that also happens.
      Hey, who knows, maybe you are Joe the Plumber, I know he’s employed by pathetic outfit of yours!
      Can I get an autograph, Joe?

  4. Watch “The Italian” and “A Woman in Berlin”

    “It shows the barbaric conditions in which ordinary Russians live, full of contempt and corruption, and the far more brutal torture they inflict on those not lucky enough to be “ordinary” such as orphans. Every single frame in the movie is a slice of Russia life, just exactly as it is lived today under Vladimir Putin. Truly, a picture is worth a thousand words.”

    I was touched beyond measure reading these lines.
    ——————————————–

    “the film is a essential clarification of the realith that the Russians were just as bad as Hitler’s forces if not worse.”

    German beauties and mongolofied monsters kinda story?
    How did the barbaric illiterate Russian hordes find their way to Berlin? It’s unbelievable, inconceivable and strange. La Russophobe, I could believe you American pilots could find their ways to the hearts of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Dresden women and are still being loved and well-remembered in those parts. But Russians in Berlin – that was a real tragedy. Who let them in?
    ————————————————

    • Well rts, the US & RAF crews helped remove tyrannical fascist governments from (West) Germany and Japan.

      Whereas the raping looting Russian vermin simple replaced one fascism (Nationalist Socialism) with another (World Socialism) in eastern europe and (East) Germany.

      Of course, a scumbag like you is incapable of understanding the difference.

      BTW, today is the 20th anniversary of the 1989 opening of the Hungarian border that started the collapse of Russia’s evil empire in eastern Europe.

    • Sergey Shelukhin

      The fanboy club of this site has this distorted picture of Russia. People do not understand that there are no black or white in history, and Russian empire did both a lot of evil and a lot of good, as did British one, as the USA does now (although proportion of what can be considered evil increases towards the colonial era).
      And of course insignificant polities with no real history of their own at all like Ukraine, or no history of their own for past 900 years like Georgia, are painted as ideal and blameless paragons of civilization, which they aren’t and never were. As someone said, the only time nations try to be fair is when they are weak – nuff said.

      Of course, we can argue forever about history and who did what, but the funniest part about all these, what would be called in Russia, “Kvass patriots”, and their Western supporters (on that further) try to pain picture of modern Russia as soem horror state compared to Western European Ukraine and Georgia. Well, let me say, aside from obvious signs of instability like higher (but not rampant) crime, etc, Moscow is not much worse than Vancouver for middle class citizens; other cities are bit worse but still nowhere near what this film would want us to think.

      Also, looking how rampantly russophobic and unreasonable this site is, I looked up who writes it.
      So that you’d know, LR is owned by Pajamas media, conservative organization that takes name from CBS characteristic of “guy sitting in his living room in his pajamas”.
      Aside from blackening of Russia, they have such noble causes as Joe the Plumber/anti-Obama propaganda and Islamophobia (LGF).

      SO yeah, continue blackening Russia; in time, with enemies like this, we’d need no friends

      is when they tr

  5. Andrew

    “Well rts, the US & RAF crews helped remove tyrannical fascist governments from (West) Germany and Japan. Whereas the raping looting Russian vermin simple replaced one fascism (Nationalist Socialism) with another (World Socialism) in eastern europe and (East) Germany.”

    Brevity is a gift. I got the message, buddy. It largely depends on your Nazi terminology.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    You’d better watch that Nazi crap, you psychopath, if you want to keep commenting here. You won’t be warned again.

    • Actually, Nazi German soldiers were punished for raping “sub-humans”. Hitler wanted to create a “master race”.

  6. LA RUSSOPHOBE
    “You’d better watch that Nazi crap, you psychopath, if you want to keep commenting here. You won’t be warned again.”

    I got your weak points guys. You don’t like the word NAZI in the connection with the USA.
    But the truth is the USA was, is and will be a nazi nation. The hardcore of American mentality at its present stage is Hitler-like Nazism long past cure.

    Dr. La Russophobe. I will be missing your idiocy of high degree. Your problem here, you have no fresh ideas to come up with just generating conventional blah blah blah you are paid a couple of US dimes for.

    Since I am posting on at least 25 English/Spanish blogs, please stop frightning me with your banning making a MOKKKERY of yourself. Shut up!

    • Actually Russia is the state with the hardcore NAZI mentality, just look at Molotov & Ribbentropts love affair (anniversary of the pact in a couple of days).

      Not to mention all your neo-nazi scum, both in government and out.

      And the Germans copied their concentration camp system from Russia too, theu sent a high level delegation to study the Gulags.

      Unfortunately inferior intellects such as yours will never understand that your “Mother Russia” is no more than a despised fascist whore that defiles everything it touches.

      Just as you have no understanding of what Nazism is. Hint, same fascistic system as communism, but nationalist rather than internationalist.

      Just look at the corrupted and debased dialect of Ukrainian, that you insist on calling “Russian” and you will see why Russia was, is, and always will be a failure.

      • Sergey Shelukhin

        Ok, you conservative blogger fanboys probably admire Churchill (I know I do). But what you know of Churchill is what you’ve heard on your history lesson with the half of your brain not engaged in thinking about frat party or video games.
        If you read Churchill’s books from 1890-s-1900s, such as River war or history of Malakand Field Force, you’d discover Churchill discussing such lively questions as:

        1) It’s bad to have inexperienced British officers head native troops in India. Why? Because war-hardened, experienced natives might feel superior to young inexperienced officers, which is unacceptable because of the race.
        2) Destroying of villages is justified, because what is at daytime peaceful farmers might become at nighttime warriors.

        This is called IMPERIALISM, and 100+ years ago, you were either on sending, or receiving end of it, with few exceptions.
        Russians or British or French, as better developed at that time, happened to be on sending end, and Ukrainians and Georgians on receiving (although Ukrainians never had any state to speak of as such, aside the polities within Kievan Rus).

        Now Russia is weaker side of the balance so all the old polities are up in arms against it, just like Inuits suing for land in Canada.

        Well, we are terribly sorry for trampling on your insignificant Kvass-patriot (or should I say Salo-patriot?) identity. We are sorry for trying to exterminate your language which is as good and as bad as any other and doesn’t really matter in anything – your comment to the contrary just shows how much of an unreasonable rabid dog you are.
        We are sorry for preventing all the Ukrainian or Georgian contributions to science, art and literature like those that we Russians, or British or French, had. Oh wait, there were almost none. Well, we are still sorry, I bet you would have produced ANOTHER great writer to Gogol (who might have even actually used Ukranian language as opposed to Russian!), or maybe came up with some ingenious Salo recipes, had we not interfered with your great nation.

        Seriously, get some perspective that is not so one-sided.

        • Now Sergy, my rabid little RuSSian, Georgians made many great contributions to science, literature, and were considered the most highly educated people in the USSR.

          Georgian officers and soldiers were known for their heroism during the 1st and 2nd world wars, and had the highest rate of HSU medals per head of population in the USSR for combat valour.

          The main reason Russia was not defeated by France was General Bagrationi (Bagration), a scion of the Georgian royal house.

          So much for no contributions, and as for your retarded (well you are a russian fkwit) accusation that Georgia “has no history for the last 900 years”, grow a brain my dimwitted russian friend. Georgia has a rich and well documented history for the last 3000 years, including its fight for survial against Turkey, Russia, and Perisa over the last 500 years.

          They were civilised while your ancestors were nomad bands without writing or culture, and they will be civilised lang after your collapsing and corrupt society has become a footnote to history.

          As you say, empires do good and ill, but Russia’s contribution to history has been mostly negative.

          Compare how your former colonial subjects hate you, to the good relations Britain has with its former colonies (except Zimbabwe of course).

          All of the above goes for Ukraine too.

          • Sergey Shelukhin

            1) Again vague claims. List me these great scientist/etc, and heroes? Especially those who would say “I’m Georgian”, not “I’m Russian” or “I’m Soviet”
            So you got yourself half a general – because Bagration was in fact Russian general of Georgian ancestry. It’s the same as we say Sergey Brin is Russian businessman – when in fact he’s American of Russian ancestry.
            Of course Bagration was also not the “main reason”, the main reason was Kutuzov.

            2) Georgia was conquered by everyone who happened to be around since 12-13th century or so, hence my claim of no own history for 900 years. Most of modern Georgian territory was conquered from Persian and Ottomans by Russian empire. Provide *specific facts* about the Georgians themselves making any progress in this war for survival?

            I agree that Georgia had great civilization, about 1000 years ago. Yet it wasn’t because some merit of Georgians, it was because Georgia is closer to middle east, cradle of human civilization, that also spread mostly along the equator as opposed to on the North-South axis. British civilization too is younger than Georgian, for example.

            3) As for Ukraine, Ukraine’s “father of nation” is Bogdan Khmelnitskiy, from 17th century, who won some independence for his bandit republic and promptly handed it to Russia to protect him from Poland.
            Before that there was no Ukraine, just Poland or commonwealth and Russia preceded by Rus’.
            Ukraine is a historical joke, a bastard outcrop of Russia and Poland, which some selfish politicians now try to shape into their own little “kingdom”

          • Sergey Shelukhin

            Oh by the way, asked an Indian guy today about Britain… He told me that generation of Indians that actually SAW British dominion didn’t like Britain, the same way as Ukrainians don’t like Russia now.
            Now they don’t care much because ~60 years has passed.

            Of course India had and has national identity (many, actually), so it’s easy to forget about Britain. Ukrainian identity doesn’t exist so it will be built by Yushenko & co based on Russia-hatred and 2.5 national heroes.
            Oh and religion of course, if you want to make morons, you gotta work in all directions.

            • Well Sergy, I know plenty of Indians of that generation who wish the British had never left, it takes all sorts,

              As for your absolutely retarded comments about Georgian history, once again you show your lack of education (of course you do have the disadvantage of being a Russian, with all the cultural stupidity that goes with it).

              The Georgian kingdoms of Imereti (west Georgia) and Kakheti (east Georgia) were independant of Turkey & Persia (their traditional foes) for most of the period that you mention. They were certainly subject to the influence of their larger neighbours and periodically occupied (mostly easter Georgia) , but certainly not subjugated totally over the period in the manner you describe (hence the repeated invasions).

              Unlike the Russians who were repeatedly subjugated by nemerically inferior foes, the Georgians were massively outnumbered by the invaders, making their mostly successful defence of their land, religion, and culture all the more remarkable. They certainly had defeats, some were due to Russian treachery.

              Although subject to repeated invasions the Georgians were noted by their enemies as great warriors despite being severely outnumbered they won many significant battles against the invaders.

              Your typically slimy insinuations that the Georgians did nothing to defend themselves are the usual sort of Russian “trash talk” that results in Russian “scholarship” being the laughing stock of the academic world (just look at the BS being published today in Russia).

              After all my dimwitted Russian friend, if they had “dissapeared” how did their GOVERNMENTS manage to send embassies to Russia hmmmm?

              http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/images/Georgia/geor_geschichte.htm

              • Sergey Shelukhin

                I will leave side that you didn’t reply half of what I said;

                Your points – how significant were these kingdoms? What territory they occupied? What about the rest of modern Georgia?
                Russia dealt with many indigenous tribes, embassies were also involved, so what? Educate me on Mongol (as people) history after 16th century? They were independent and sure as hell sent embassies somewhere, so what?

                Subjugated by numerically inferior foes – when after Mongols?
                Russian treachery – source?
                Sources I found Russia expanded both Georgia and Ukraine at the expense of Turkey/Persia and Poland/itself respectively.

                I don’t make slimy insinuations. I know Georgians tried to defend themselves, but lo and behold, couldn’t due to being too weak of a state, so everyone both from the South and North ran over them.

                • Try reading sources by real (ie NON RUSSIAN) historians, you know, people who like to be accurate in historical research rather than the usual blatant Russian lies that come from Russian “historians” (Propagandists would be a better description)

                  “The latter sought to turn to advantage the Russo-Turkish war that broke out in 1769. A joint (Russo-Georgian) campaign was planned to seize the Akhaltsikhé vilayet. In 1769 a Russian force arrived under general Todtleben. In 1770 the Russian and Georgian troops besieged the Atsquri fortress. But as soon as the battle began, Todtleben deserted Ereklé II on the field, withdrawing with his troops.”

                  http://www.cac-biodiversity.org/geo/geo_history.htm

                  Then the whole Russian force was withdrawn, leading to the inevitable Persian & Turkish response.

                  Most historians of this subject agree the Russians were deliberately weakening Georgia in order to be able to conquer it themselves rather than have it as an ally.

                  This is a good source:

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=riW0kKzat2sC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=todtleben+georgia&source=bl&ots=3BlipZpFMk&sig=LWDc3i-DYhaZ_qm_IgpIyMrd0us&hl=en&ei=rkKWSrTCJ5zInAO-zYzzCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=todtleben%20georgia&f=false

                  And

                  “In 1783 Erekle signed the Treaty of Georgievsk with Russia, according to which Kartli-Kakheti was to receive Russian protection. But when another Russo-Turkish War broke out in 1787, the Russians withdrew their troops from the region for use elsewhere, leaving Erekle’s kingdom unprotected. In 1795, the Persian shah, Agha Mohammed Khan, invaded the country and burnt the capital, Tbilisi, to the ground”

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Georgia_(country)#The_18th_century_and_Russian_annexation

                  • Sergey Shelukhin

                    So yeah, again partial response. I still haven’t seen great Georgian scientists/art ppl/explorers/generals apart from half of Bagration. Oh, and I’d give you Camrade Djugashvili, however that is spelled.

                    So, yeah. Because Georgia has such an awesome history during the period, one insignificant battle is a very important even, especially if it’s politically convenient.
                    Guess what, this battle is footnote’s footnote in Russian history, and it’s unimportant even in region’s history. What about numerous other battles of Russians vs Persia and Ottomans in the regions of modern Georgia? They (and their results) are much more important.

                    For some reason you don’t see Russians on forums accusing then-Kipchaks-now-Bashkirs of retreating at Kalka. Oh, and Russians made a blunder and screwed up united Anglo-Russian attack at Bergen, how come there are no British lamenting this?
                    Only insignificant countries with insignificant histories remember
                    insignificant trifles…

                    As for versions of history, it might be interesting to you that I mostly like Mongol empire history, and of course Russia is bad source for that due to bias so I read Western sources on that.
                    For Ukraine, supplementing Wikipedia and various articles, I have Senkewicz’s “With Fire and Sword” & etc, which among other things gives nice account of creation of Ukrainian state, from totally non-Russian perspective.

                    I also used to read Turkish history because I admire Ataturk – again Russian sources are obviously deficient in this area due to lack of interest.

                    Well, I also like British colonial wars so I read Churchill and numerous smaller articles.

                    I don’t think I have read any Russian source on history since high school…

            • sergy/dilldohead [or should I say dumdumhead?],

              Are you an orphans?

              All Ukrainians speak more than one language, and most Ukrainians speak several.

              Most rooshans barely, speak rooshan and many speak Surgzik, or whatever.

              Most [all?] Ukrainians understand rooshan, while most rooshans do not understand Ukrainian.

              >>1710 Pacta et Constitutiones Legum Libertatumque Exercitus Zaporoviensis) was a 1710 constitutional document written by Hetman Pylyp Orlyk. It established a democratic standard for the separation of powers in government between the legislative, executive, and judiciary branches, well before the publication of Montesquieu’s Spirit of the Laws. The Constitution also limited the executive authority of the hetman, and established a democratically elected Cossack parliament called the General Council.

              Pylyp Orlyk’s Constitution was unique for its historic period, and was one of the first state constitutions in Europe.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Pylyp_Orlyk

              Orlyk’s basic law never entered into force, and is, by contemporary standards, a simplistic text.

              Yet, in its time, this document gained recognition as a serious document, and served as a blueprint for future constitutional designs.

              Articles 1-3 dealt with general Ukrainian affairs. They proclaimed the Orthodox faith to be the faith of Ukraine, and independent of the patriarch of Moscow. The articles also recognized the need for an anti-Russian alliance between Ukraine and the Crimean Khanate.

              >> 1720. Peter I’s ukase banning the publication and printing of books in Ukrainian.

              >> 1722 When the Austrian monarchy made Galicia a province in 1772, Habsburg officials ***REALIZED*** that the local East Slavic ***PEOPLE WERE DISTINCT*** from BOTH Poles AND Russians. Their own name for themselves, Rusyny, was similar in sound to the German term for Russians, Russen. Austria ADOPTED the ethnonym Ruthenen (Ruthenians), and continued to use it officially until the empire fell apart in 1918.

              Some 200 years ago and times prior to that, Ukrainians were usually referred to and known as rusyny (Ukrainian: русини, commonly translated as Ruthenians).

              >> 1740’s The first Grammar of Russian Language was written by Vasily Adodurov in the 1740s, and a more influential one, by Mikhail Lomonosov in 1755.

              >> 1769. Ban {by the kremlin} on Ukrainian ABC books.

              >> 1784. Only “Pure Russian” is allowed {BY THE KREMLIN} as the language of instruction at the Kyiv Religious Academy. {BEFORE THE MOSKALI CAME, UKRAINIAN WAS THE LANGUAGE OF KIEV}

              The first Grammar of Russian Language was written by Vasily Adodurov in the 1740s, and a more influential one, by Mikhail Lomonosov in 1755.

              >> 1825 Modern Russian is sometimes said to begin with Pushkin.

              Czar {a Polish word} peter the first banned books in the Ukrainian language, before the moskali “invented” their grammar!

              Facts and logic do not matter to the kremlin, only lies to make moskali think that they are “greater”, rather than uncivilized barbarians.

              • Sergey Shelukhin

                What is your point?
                1) So? I clailmed Ukraine has no history before 17th century, how does what you say contradict that?

                2) Constitution – so there was a guy in Ukraine (later than 17th century!) who wrote good law. Which never really went into action as you wrote. So?

                3) Modern Russian is said to begin with Pushkin? It just might begin with Pushkin, so what?
                Languages evolve; try to read Middle English. Russian language existed for ages before that, or are you claiming before Pushkin (or Lomonosov) they spoke Ukrainian?

                Damn, can you people learn to be a little bit coherent? Are you high on Salo down there?

  7. There is something in the water or in the air that makes kremlinoids like dildohead and rts repeat that same old kremlin lies over and over again, and expect different results.

    It must be in the kremin manual of threats, deception, intimidation, insults and repetition.

    That also relies on the same old trick of asking people to prove what has already been proven a billion times before.

    Oh, so clever little kremlinoids (‘give me the facts and the figures’).

    So you give them the facts and figures – again and again and again.

    Which they happily and blithely ignore, because that’s really not what they want.

    A brick has more intelligence than kremlinoids.

    Poor little kremlinoids – they still think that people believe their stuff.

    Even during the sovok union, people didn’t believe their stuff.

    They had to pretend to believe kremlinoid stuff, otherwise they would be shot or sent to psychiatric hospitals, etc.

    Those days are gone.

    Noone has to even pretend to believe the kremlinoids any more – except for Rasha, of course.

    • Hi Elmer,

      They repeat the lies and kremlin disinformation because they are paid kremlin propagandists. They do not care about the truth.

      “A lie told often enough becomes truth”
      Vladimir Lenin quote

      “The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses”
      Vladimir Lenin quote

      Literature must become party literature. Down with unpartisan litterateurs! Down with the superman of literature! Literature must become a part of the general cause of the proletariat.”
      Vladimir Lenin quote

      “Stalin acted not through persuasion, explanation and patient cooperation with people, but by imposing his concepts and demanding absolute submission to his opinion. Whoever opposed this concept or tried to prove his [own] viewpoint, and the correctness of his [own] position, was doomed to removal from the leading collective and to subsequent moral and physical annihilation.”
      Nikita Khrushchev quotes (First secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, 1894-1971)

      “Print is the sharpest and the strongest weapon of our party.”
      Joseph Stalin quote

      “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
      Adolf Hitler quotes (German Chancellor, leader of the Nazi party, 1889-1945)

      “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
      Joseph Goebbels quote

      “Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
      Joseph Goebbels quote

      “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever”
      Vladimir Lenin quote

      When an opponent declares, “I will not come over to your side,” I calmly say, “Your child belongs to us already. . . . What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.”
      Adolf Hitler (18891945), German dictator. Speech, 6 Nov. 1933. Quoted in: William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, ch. 8, “Education in the Third Reich” (1959).

      Their only concern is to continue their PSYWAR against Ukraine and the USA!

  8. You know, Les, a recent episode of the Tonight Show had a sort of mock quiz show, with this question:

    “Who lives in the Vatican?”

    Answer: “uhhh, Vaticans?”

    Obama and his lefties are trying to re-create the sovok union in the US.

    Alan Keyes was absolutely correct about Obama.

    The video link you posted to is certainly food for thought.

  9. Another example of the retardation of the Russian education system, historical understanding, and corruption of the state has been explained to me by my Father confessor, Fr. Giorgi, who is one of the Georgian Orthodox Church ambassadors. He was at a council of Orthodox Churches following the appointment of the latest KGB Patriarch in Russia.

    He told me the Russians are now claiming to be the oldest of the Orthodox Churches, and that they gave Christianity and the scriptures to the Greeks, Georgians, Palestinians, Syrians, Armenians etc. They claim that they should lead the Orthodox Church because they like to think Russia is the “original” orthodox church, which is BS on a massive scale.

    Needless to say the Patriarchal representative of the older Churches (Jerusalem 1st C, Antioch 1st C, Constantinople 1st C, Ethiopia 1st C, Georgia 3rd C, and the Orthodox Churches of Bulgaria, Romania etc) were extremely upset by this latest manifestation of Russian imperialism, ignorance, and stupidity.

    • Sergey Shelukhin

      So, Georgian priest told you a slander on Russia, and you believe him without question? Nice! How about some better source? I can claim that Saakashvili is a child-eating alien from Sirius. I even have proof, unlike that guy – how he chews his tie is clearly reminiscent of aliens feeding on babies. What a joke.

      By the way, the fact that you have father confessor just shows how much of a brainwashed peasant you are. Of course, it’s easy to heap any amount of additional BS on the mind already dominated by imaginary friends and not-so-imaginary evil sects like georgian (or russian, I’m equal opportunity hater in this area) ortodox church

      • I had it confirmed by a Greek Orthodox priest, and also by an Australian/Russian priest from ROCOR.

        Your hatred of others religious beliefs is fairly typical for the average Russian.

        Besides, aetheists tend to be the most brainwashed and evil sect.

        Lets see, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot.
        By some accounts Hitler.

        Aetheism has killed more people than any other “belief”.

        Shows what a retarded philistine you are Sergey.

        I guess you also believe in the party, or in Russian “culture”?

  10. Don’t you love the way these homo-sovietic morons just gloss over their century of cataclysmic genocide, imperialism, hate, rape, murder and theft which continues to this very day UNCHANGED?

    I don’t mean to boast, but why don’t you compare your ‘glorious’ history to what Australia has achieved in two centuries. We started with a pack of criminals and EVOLVED! Why can’t you?

    Pathetic!

    Ha ha!

    • Sergey Shelukhin

      I agree that modern Australia is better than modern Russia, but you had two centuries on an empty continent far away from everywhere and some natives to boot. Some killing, some epidemics, blah blah blah, empty land. Awesome.
      We were in a much tighter place, epsecially early on.
      Of course you were also near-free of evil religions, with atheism on the rise even now, we got our patriarchal Christianity.
      It would be interesting to note that Putin & co are in full support of Orthodox church now that Communist religion no longer excites the minds of gullible masses.

      Oh and I forgot about absolutism that comes with it, which might have just contributed to people taking 70 years to finally get a little bit pissed off last century. Who were the evil kings of Australia that it had to shake off, again?

      It would be interesting to note that countries like UK or USA, who had/have empires, are relatively worse off now (crime, etc) compared to unambitious colonies like Australia or Canada.

      • Hi sergy,

        You stated:

        * far away from everywhere *

        Yes! They were far away from the kremlin. The kremlin could not send them to the gulags, to build their infrastructure, so that the kremlin may scream how “glorious’ their empire is.

  11. Andrew,

    aetheists tend to be the most brainwashed and evil sect.

    I like what GK Chesterton once said: “When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything.”

    I don’t know much about pre-XX century history – Georgian, Ukrainian, or Russian. So, I’ll leave it to you to duke it out. The way I see it, Sergey’s points is a eclectic combination of facts, equal opportunity slander, and somewhat bizzarre conclusions. You accuse others that they don’t fully answer all your points; but I am still curious how you can explain that all former British colonies (except Zimbabwe) are friendly with UK, whereas all Russian colonies (Soviet republics and East Europeans) despise Russia?

    And that’s today; not in middle ages when British monarch was entitled to hang his wives…

    I wonder, what is the country that comes closes to your ideal?

    • Well said Felix.

      The funniest thing is that Sergey is always dribbling down his chin about “sources” but never provides any of his own.

      In addition he obviously fails to read sources provided by others, then again he is a Russian and lies, blind obediance to his whore of a motherland, and stupidity are all pillars of his “culture”, and so is a an inability to read sources properly.

      As for reading Churchill on British colonial wars, well the only books he ever wrote on the colonial campaigns were “The River War” about the fighting against the Mahdists, “London to Ladysmith Via Pretoria” about the South African war of 1899-1902, and “The Story Of The Malakand Field Force: An Episode Of Frontier War”, which is a fairly narrow reading range considering the scope of British colonial campaigns. There are literally thousands of books on the subject, many of them by far better writers and observers than Winston (as much as I admire the man)

      Sergey’s obviously narrow scope of research explains his stupidity, and the slimey insinuations of his comments regards Georgians and Ukrainians.

  12. I wouldn’t call it stupidity… a lot of data and strange inability of logical thinking or common sense. Absent such logic – I have no interested in argueing; so I’ll just give examples from the latest post of what I mean:

    [Australia] had two centuries on an empty continent far away from everywhere and some natives to boot. Some killing, some epidemics, blah blah blah, empty land. Awesome.

    I am sure there is some meaning in this paragraph that explains why Australia had achieved more than Russia despite having to start with criminals (pretty much like Magadan). But life is too short to search for hidden meaning in such gibberish!

    Who were the evil kings of Australia that it had to shake off, again?

    Indeed, it is Australia’s fault that it didn’t have communists to shake off. For fair comparison, Aussies whould bring commies down under, endure them for 70 years – then we will compare!

    It would be interesting to note that countries like UK or USA, who had/have empires, are relatively worse off now (crime, etc) compared to unambitious colonies like Australia or Canada.

    Andrew, you already metnioned the absence of sources… I won’t repeat. But when one hears “unambitious colonies”, one may think of Uganda or Bangladesh; not Australia or Canada.

    Stupid? Probably not. Delusional? Definitely

  13. And for Sergey,

    Here are just a few of the very large number of Georgians that have contributed to the advancement of science and the arts.

    If you actually bother to look, you will find plenty of Georgian scientists, writers, and artists who are highly respected in their fields, and per capita the Georgians far outstrip Russian contributions to science and the arts (as do Ukrainians and other former soviet republics).

    Alexander Kartveli, who designed the P-47 Thunderbolt, the F-84 Thunderjet and the F-105 Thunderchief.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Kartveli

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gregor

    In the arts

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Balanchine

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meliton_Balanchivadze

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andria_Balanchivadze

    Soviet era dissidents and human rights activists

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valery_Chalidze

    And a good general list

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Georgians

  14. And another Georgian high achiever:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shalikashvili

    The only immigrant to ever hold the position of “Chairman of the Joint Cheifs of Staff” of the armed forces of the USA.

  15. Sergey Shelukhin

    I told you already I mean those that worked and associated with Georgia.
    Most of those in the list are scarcely known, and those that are known achieved their success in the USA, and many in Russia.

    My point, again, that you missed from your bizzare hate-filled world (as your “per capita” comment clearly shows, you think I’m being Russian-descent-based supermacist here), was that, long before Russia arrived in the region, Georgia was the kind of place where where very small kingdoms maneuvered between regional powers, and you could go to the army, herd sheep, pray or whatever, or go somewhere else. It still mostly is.
    Russia for centuries was the kind of country where scientists, artists, whatever, both ethnic Russia, brought-up Russian, and immigrants, could work and advance science and arts. It is much worse now, but we are talking history here.

    How about we compare to a list of Russians (I am not talking about descent but of place of work and life, but if you want to be racist we can go by decent too) . How about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russians ?

    Oh, if you want to do it by descent, why don’t we discuss Sergey Brin, great Russian businessman?

  16. Sergey Shelukhin

    Response to many messages:

    Felix:
    “explain that all former British colonies (except Zimbabwe) are friendly with UK, whereas all Russian colonies (Soviet republics and East Europeans) despise Russia?”
    Actually LR himself answers this question in later post. British empire disintegrated 50-60 years ago and since then British ceased empire-building and started constructive policy.
    100 or whatever years ago when they were still active in empire-building there were plenty of hatred and uprisings against them – study history.
    If Russia gets rid of Putin and others like him, I’d guess in 50 years the only states that would hate it would be the pathetic ones without any real identity, that built one on “Russia-hatred”, such as Ukraine if it doesn’t get of warring bands of ex-orange revolution allies.

    “I am sure there is some meaning in this paragraph that explains why Australia had achieved more than Russia despite having to start with criminals (pretty much like Magadan)”
    Australia has almost no history of wars, no history of authoritarian government and never was an empire. It got a fresh start in a relatively enlightened age, on empty continent.
    My point was that it’s not “wonder” that Australia ended up better than Russia, it’s pretty natural to expect.

    “Andrew, you already metnioned the absence of sources… I won’t repeat. But when one hears “unambitious colonies”, one may think of Uganda or Bangladesh; not Australia or Canada.”
    Tell me what about Canada and Australia makes the ambitious? They never had imperial aspirations or hardly any offensive wars (especially Australia).
    If you want to know what’s better there… well, how about HDI?

    3 Canada 0.967
    4 Australia 0.965
    15 United States 0.950
    21 United Kingdom 0.942

    Life expectancy:
    5 7 Australia 81.63 79.25 84.14
    6 8 Canada 81.23 78.69 83.91
    25 36 United Kingdom 79.01 76.52 81.63
    35 50 United States 78.11 75.65 80.69

    Btw, LR likes to rant about Russian life expectancy, maybe US conservatives should learn from I dunno, Jordan (27th)? Or Greece (18th)?

    Education index:
    1= Australia ▬ 0.993
    5 Canada ▬ 0.991
    19= United States ▼ 0.968
    28 United Kingdom ▼ 0.957

    You can check pop poverty, whatever.

    As for not replying to many points, yes, you indeed ignore great many points I make. Your excuse for that is pretty lame.

  17. Sergey Shelukhin

    Andrew:
    Zhukov quotes on superiority of non-Russians in the army – would be interesting to see the source, what did he actually say and what did you add.
    That aside, average Chechen is better warrior than average Russian, I can believe that.
    Hey, what about average tribesman from Pakistan or Afghanistan – they are sure better warriors than Russians, what does it tell us about their country and culture?
    “Russians were only around 50% of the Soviet armed forces during the period” – wouldn’t deny that, but sources would also be interesting.
    Per capita or not, 50% out of the number of nationalities is overwhelmingly Russian army.

    “I had it confirmed by a Greek Orthodox priest, and also by an Australian/Russian priest from ROCOR.”
    I haven’t seen it confirmed by any remotely reliable source other than you reporting some priests. It is obvious that such claim, the way you stat it, would be complete nonsense,
    so my most kind (towards you & priests) guess would be that they wildly misinterpreted whatever the Russian guy actually meant.
    The least kind is that they are the kind of crazy Russia-haters that gather on this site.

    As for “atheists” you talk about, they were not brainwashed by atheism, they were brainwashed by communism and nazism.
    Of course, Hitler was catholic, too.
    For others and him, state-authored pseudo-science replaced religion at the service of totalitarian government. It’s almost like religion, 20th century style.
    Personal non-religiousness, however, according to many modern studies (Pew report, etc, if you want link I can find them), correlates well with better society, lower crime, and economic prosperity.
    Everywhere from worldwide to US-wide (by state) you see that religious countries and states are, on average, the worst on most metrics.
    Religiousness also correlates with low IQ, and % of agnostics and atheists among American scientists is much higher than among average population, etc, etc, etc
    Ah, those brainwashed scientists, who do not get the selective picking from ancient fairy tales composed by enlightened sheep herders that helps you have a clear, unbiased picture of the world.
    So there.

    As for ” party” – I don’t love the party.
    I used to be Christian, but graduating 6th grade in middle school (hat tip to Carlin) is enough to start to doubt it and I became agnostic by 19; when I could look at religion without jesus-filters on my eyes I became militant atheist in two years.
    If you look at relevant LR post comments I actually dislike Putin and Soviet union/communism not much less than you do; it’s your chronic misinterpretation of history and complete one-sidedness (Putin is also right or “more right that the other guy” sometimes, such as in Georgian war) that bothers me.

    As for colonial war sources:
    Yes, I also read other things on them aside from Churchill. Churchill seems to capture the mood of the time (in unabridged editions) pretty well. Churchill also wrote history of English speaking peoples, btw.

  18. Мне понравился ваш сайтик, так держать.

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