A Call to Arms in Europe on Georgia

French philosopher André Glucksmann, writing on City Journal:

Is there such a thing as the European Union? In Washington, the State Department has been seeking the phone number for such an entity since the days of Henry Kissinger. In Moscow, the EU is nothing but a television prop. Since the days of Soviet foreign minister Andrei Gromyko, regimes have come and gone, but the conviction endures that only classical powers matter: the United Kingdom, France, and above all Germany, long a political dwarf but always an economic giant. As for the historians, they’re uncertain: the De Gaulle–Adenauer and Mitterrand-Kohl relationships did not work for long, and London’s tiffs with Paris and Bonn (and then Berlin) were all the talk for decades. In the face of a global crisis, European disunity is evident.

The original, six-nation European Economic Community was able to overcome atavistic and ideological divergences only by focusing on limited but crucial stakes, of which two were most important: resistance to Stalinist expansion, and the will to have done with the economic warfare that led to global conflicts. Have such ventures now come to an end? Europe’s cherished “common values” are seriously damaged when a former Social-Democratic German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, is named to head the Russian natural-gas company Gazprom hardly a month after leaving office. This past January, half of Europe froze because of the Kremlin’s energy blackmail. But there’s no evidence that Schröder protested when his new bosses threatened to cut off the gas (via Ukraine) to his fellow citizens; he was too busy amassing his millions.

Does Schröder represent corruption or conviction? No doubt both lead him to revile independent Georgia, while the Kremlin dismembers her through a barely disguised annexation of her provinces, in blatant contempt of cease-fire agreements signed with Nicolas Sarkozy, the enterprising president of Europe. One might object that the ordinary greed of the former German chancellor in no way stigmatizes the whole EU—except that he remains a moral authority of the Left among Germans, who respect their new friend Vladimir Putin and consider the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, unstable and dangerous because he continues to resist Big Brother’s decrees.

At the end of a short stay in Georgia (imagine Tuscany, a sea that is black in name only, and snow-covered mountains year-round, a favorite refuge of persecuted Russian poets such as Lermontov, if memory serves), I told myself that if it is a sign of mental illness not to give in to the Putin-Medvedev team, then 4 million Georgians must be as crazy as their president. They are too proud of their newfound freedom and too fond of their culture to surrender to an empire of 140 million souls. They retain searing memories of massive purges organized by Stalin, Beria, and Ordjonikidze, “shameful Caucasians” who liquidated more than one of every ten citizens. Under 70 years of Soviet rule, the gardens, the commerce, and the black market of the Caucasus fed starving Moscow and Leningrad. So it’s not hard to understand why the aggressive advice Russia offers on economics and democracy is met with irony.

Beset by a vehement and fragmented opposition—probably all the more vehement because it is so fragmented—whose only agenda is the unconditional dismissal of the president, Saakashvili holds his ground. He was democratically elected under the supervision of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), and he has worked to build a republic free of corruption, as international observers have attested. Such a state is a novelty in former Soviet lands, and in particular in the Caucasus. Why should Saakashvili give in to the minority? Why shouldn’t he complete his term, as presidents do in democracies? He allows protests, tries to negotiate, and outlasts his opponents. In recent months, his favorable ratings have varied between 53 and 65 percent, according to independent and international pollsters. This does not mean that there is nothing to be said for the opposition, which plays a necessary role in every true democracy; but its intolerance reflects badly on it, and the Russian media exploit it and carry it further, demonizing Saakashvili as the Hitler of the Caucasus (in Dmitry Medvedev’s phrase).

The charge is absurd. If only such a vibrant opposition could exist under Putin’s regime—with newspapers, two television channels, and the privilege of blocking major arteries and access to official buildings by setting up political protests. In Georgia, I saw a protest take place for two months, while the police refrained from opening up traffic in order not to offend the demonstrators. How many minutes would it take to arrest someone so bold as to set up a protest in front of the Elysée Palace? And who would imagine for an instant that such a thing could be attempted in Red Square?

Independent Georgia must survive through this summer. Last year, the Russian army positioned itself just 20 miles from Georgia’s capital, Tbilisi—one hour on the highway by tank. Clouds are gathering: large military maneuvers, inflammatory media rhetoric, and a Russian veto in the UN Security Council that interrupted the work of neutral observers. The UN and the OSCE have packed their bags, leaving 200 observers, restricted to the Russian side. Pavel Felgenhauer, a military specialist based in Moscow, fears that the Russian military command will take advantage of the absence of observers in Georgia to concoct some pretext to invade and fulfill their fondest wish—to “hang Saakashvili by the balls,” as Putin threatened in 2008. (After all, didn’t Germany invade Poland in 1939 by trotting out two unfortunate Polish border guards, whom the Germans accused of “invading” the Third Reich?) Andrei Illarionov, Putin’s special advisor until 2006, shares similar apprehensions. It’s hard to know what to expect. Sergei Kovalev, an activist and a friend of the late Andrei Sakharov, dissuades me from trying to read the signs of the times. The Russian rulers are not strategists, he says; they settle their accounts day by day, attend to their own interests, and plan their gangsters’ business month by month and year by year. But the current heads of the Kremlin will never forgive the young Georgian leader his crime of pro-Western sympathies.

Can President Obama and the European Union contain Moscow’s ambitions and whims? Or will they purchase a fallacious and precarious tranquility by sacrificing Georgia’s independence? At stake is the very sovereignty of Europe: its energy independence. Energy has become decisive because for Putin, gas is now a weapon as powerful as a deterrent arsenal. Consider a popular song performed by a military choir in Moscow. Its chorus depicts the “radiant future” that Gazprom is preparing: “Europe has a problem with us? We will cut off its gas; a big smile will rise in our eyes and happiness will leave us no more.” Similar sentiments are expressed toward the Ukraine and its desire to join NATO, as well as toward American forces all over the world. The Russian public loves the song.

If Tbilisi falls, there will be no way to get around Gazprom and guarantee autonomous access to the gas and petroleum wealth of Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, and Kazakhstan. As for the global credibility of President Obama, it will amount to no more than the empty-sleeved gestures of someone whose arms have been amputated.

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73 responses to “A Call to Arms in Europe on Georgia

  1. Adamfrom Poland

    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2009/08/02/67134.shtml

    the intelligence service of the North-caucasian rebels (Caucasus Emirate) reports,that yesterday around 19.00 h a large column of more than 300 russian tanks,armored vehicles and artillery installations passed the city of Saratov on the Volga and moved to the russian-georgian boundary! At the same time Pavel Felgenhauer predicts,that during the next days the russian army will large-scale invade Georgia with a probability of 80%!!! This means,that his connections inside the russian general-staff told him,that the invasion will take place this August! The chechen rebels warned Georgia last week,that the russian army is massing up 250.000 soldiers on the russian-georgian border and that the invasion will take place this August with the aim to conquer whole Georgia and to restore the Soviet Empire on the southern flank,in the Southern Caucasus!
    So the chechen-caucasian rebels,Pavel Felgenahauer and many others are sure,that in the next four weeks the russians will invade Georgia again,even bigger than last year! Guys,it´s time to prepare for war!!!

    • Adam,do you honestly think we are that stupid?
      The dictator Sakashvili is clearly trying to provoke a new conflict with Russia to distract and rally the Georgian people behind him.
      It is not going to happen.

      • Well, the EUMM thinks you are, so does most of the international diplomatic community.

        As for “dictator Saakashvili”, sorry but he is not one of you Russian vermin. He does not have a problem with opposition rallies, with newspapers and TV that criticise him, and he does not murder journalists, human rights activists, lawyers etc, unlike Putin and his f*ck toy Medvedev.

  2. Meanwhile the “Jamaat Shariat” has shot dead two pro-russian dagestani traitors from the so called “police” in Makhachkala,the capital of Dagestan! Let the russians attack Georgia,then the Ivan-rats will be in big trouble on two fronts!!!

  3. I can`t believe that french wrote that…Bravo!

    • he is jewish….
      no wonder he is trying to stir up one against the other,it has been their specialty for years…

      • Ah, good old Russian racism, no surprises there.

        Sorry CG, but you are an ape. Sounds morelike typical Russian imperialism to me.

        Russians are scum.

  4. i´ve just received a message from Chechnya,that large columns of russian army-vehicles are moving from the russian main-base Khankhala near Grozny are moving to South Ossetia. Sources in Chechnya say,that the russian invasion will take place next week,in the next few days! PREPARE FOR WAR!!!!! The whole Caucasus will raise the banners of Jihad and the russians will bath in their blood,ALLAH AKBAR!!!

    • yeah right,but dont cry if you get your asses pounded again

      • Seems you Russian apes are the ones doing most of the bleeding these days.

        Of course you never could finish anything properly, thats probably why all you women want foreign husbands.

        Tell me CG, have you ever realised that your excessive Vodka consumption leads to certain dysfunctions?

  5. URGENT! Reuters reports,that large russian columns amass near the ossetian-georgian border and rush through the Roki-tunnel! In my opinion this is an indication,that the invasion will take place within the next 48 hours,help me God! NOW WE ALL HAVE TO BE GEORGIANS!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. TBILISI, Aug 1 (Reuters) – South Ossetia accused Georgian forces of firing mortars at the rebel territory on Saturday and Russia warned Tbilisi it reserved the right to use force to defend civilians a year after their five-day war.

    Georgia denied any shooting took place and, amid rising tension ahead of the Aug 7 anniversary of the war, said the Russian statement suggested “aggressive intent”. Analysts warn of the risk of skirmishes boiling over into renewed hostilities.

    South Ossetia said two mortar rounds were fired at a military observation post from the village of Ditsi on the Georgian side of the de facto border, which runs a few hundred metres from the southern edge of the rebel capital Tskhinvali.

    South Ossetia made a similar accusation on Thursday, and a Reuters reporter heard two loud blasts from the rebel capital Tskhinvali but could not identify the cause. European Union ceasefire monitors said they had seen no evidence to confirm Tskhinvali or its surroundings had been fired on.

    But Russia warned Georgia against “further acts of provocation”.

    Read rest at:

    http://www.kyivpost.com/world/46258

  7. Saakashvili says Russia still wants him out

    TBILISI, Aug 2 (Reuters) – President Mikheil Saakashvili said Georgia knows it cannot take back its Russian-backed rebel regions militarily but fears Moscow has designs on Tbilisi

    In an interview with Reuters a year after a war with Russia, Saakashvili said the world had failed to hold Moscow to account for “mass ethnic cleansing” of Georgians in the South Ossetia conflict for fear of jeopardising energy and trade interests.

    That he is still in office is “almost a miraculous story of survival”, Saakashvili said, adding that though a new war is not imminent, Russia has not given up hope of ousting him with forces 50 km (30 miles) from the Georgian capital.

    “I am still sitting in this office despite solemn pledges by (Prime Minister Vladimir) Putin to hang me by different parts of my body, to crush Georgia’s statehood,” Saakashvili said.

    “… in many ways it’s mission unaccomplished. That’s certainly very worrisome.”

    Read rest at:

    http://www.kyivpost.com/world/46272

    • More from the same article:

      “Russia crushed a Georgian assault on South Ossetia last August”

      • Nazi Germany crushed lots of Russian assaults during World War II. And your point is?

        If you are attempting to suggest this article is anything but a devasting attack on Russian aggression in Georgia, we can only say: Lay of the vodka, you are embarrassing yourself with your illiteracy.

  8. i am in complete shock in these minutes after reading the new reports,including the report of Felgenhauer.This guy knows,that the russians will invade next week! There will be war in a few days,i can´t believe it! I thought,Obama was able to stop the russkies.He wasn´t! Let´s pray for the freedom,let´s pray for georgian victory

    • Sergio wrote:

      > i am in complete shock in these minutes… the russians will invade next week!

      Let us return to this subject in one week to find out if you and Felgenhauer are wise analysts (if there is a new war) or psychopaths (if there is no war).

      Anybody wants to make bets?

      • Now phobophobe, the only psychopath around here is you old chap.

        Of course the fact that you support Russian imperialism, genocide, and economic warfare against former soviet republics, former eastern block states, and even the EU & US shows your true stripe.

        Of course, you seem to forget the weeks of shelling, machine gun attacks, and terrorist bombings against Georgians in the conflict zone in the period leading up to the August war last year, but of course given your hypocrisy on other threads I guess you don’t consider the Georgians had a right to defend their citizens and restore order (ie evict a mafia style criminal regime) on their internationally recognised territory.

  9. Here is what the Georgians offered to the separatists in 2008 as the proposed federal structure.

    • The introduction of the new position of Vice-President of Georgia, which will be
    constitutionally reserved for an Abkhaz representative, with the right to veto all
    decisions related to the constitutional status of Abkhazia;
    • Guaranteed representation in all bodies of the Georgian central authorities;
    • International guarantees for Abkhazia to ensure wide federalism and unlimited
    autonomy;
    • Measures to ensure the preservation and further development of Abkhazian culture,
    language, and ethnic identity;
    • Establishment of a joint free economic zone in Gali and Ochamchire, with
    development of the seaport of Ochamchire;
    • Security guarantees;
    • The gradual merger of law enforcement agencies and customs services;
    • An offer to the Russian Federation, along with the international community, to act as
    a mediator in this process;

    http://georgiaupdate.gov.ge/en/doc/10003581/20080429,%20NATO%20Backs%20Georgia%20in%20Dispute%20with%20Russia.pdf

    Read the rest of the document for a list of Russian provocations and actions that undermine the sovreignty of Georgia.

  10. The bad Ruskies may get angry at your reports here and deport 1 million democratic Gergians currently residing (illegally) in undemocratic decaying Rooossia. That was real funny to see a couple of years ago thousands of Georgians being deported by the Russian Air Force IL-76 planes from Chkalovsky airfield near Moscow. As far as I remember they were not very happy to go back to democracy of Saakashvily. Dogs and specnaz clubs were used “en masse” to drive them inside the planes and during the flights.

    Saakashvili stands a good chance to add up yet another million of his downtrodden people to his poverty-stricken population. The Russians say they are all illegal aliens and criminals and the Big Hunt for proud Gergians all across Russia may start anytime soon in case of a new war. They (the Ruskies) will need hundreds of planes to play that trick on Saakashvili. It seems to be the only problem.

  11. you russian scum will bath in your own blood,RTS,we will burn you alive and throw your ashes into the asses of monkeys!!!!!!! Hitler should have killed even more russians in World War 2,he didn´t kill enough russian scum

    • Akhmad,

      In your opinion, did Hitler do anything else imperfectly?

      What do you think of how the Jewish surviviors of Hitler’s Holocaust moved to Israel and then kicked ass of your buddies. It was 4 million against almost 1 billion. Kicked your hateful jihadist ass!

  12. akhmad:
    “Hitler should have killed even more russians in World War 2,he didn´t kill enough russian scum.”

    Birds of a feather flock together.

    • Yes, look at the Molottov-Ribbentropt pact.

      Communist Russia & Nazi Germany, no difference at all, same animals in different uniforms.

  13. As far as I know Joe Stalin was not born a native Russian. They say in Gori (his native place in Georgia) they still have a monument of Uncle Joe and keep it in rather mint condition. How about that, Andrew? Sounds like a contradiction to me.
    Now let me modify your comment just a bit:
    Georgian Jugashvili and German Hitler, no difference at all, same animals in different uniforms.
    Georgia has proved to be the best place for cutout dictators to be born in there be that “idiotshvillis” of any size and any form.

    • Well, Molotov was a Russian, so was Lenin, So was Yhezov, what about all those NEW Stalin statues the Russian federation is putting up in Sochi, Volgograd (which now has a brand new museum lauding the “Great Russian” Stalin),
      the new Russian school history books lauding Stalin and describing his murders as “correct and rational”, the fact that Stalin was recently voted 3rd greatest Russian of all time, and is viewed positively by 50% of Russian youth.

      Not too mention when the Russian army occupied Gori the Russians were making pilgramiges to his statue to lay flowers.

      Nice try RTS, but Stalin belongs to Russia.

      Hell, he did not even get out of the 1st round of “History’s greatest Georgian”, they don’t like him so much.

      • Transcript of a Reuters video:

        25. (SOUNDBITE) (Russian) GORI REGIONAL GOVERNOR, LADO VARDZELASHVILI, SAYING:

        “I think it is Stalin’s legacy what is happening here, because Putin and Medvedev think and reason in exactly the same way that Stalin did.”

        26. STALIN STATUE

        27. (SOUNDBITE) (Russian) GORI REGIONAL GOVERNOR, LADO VARDZELASHVILI, SAYING:

        “The general revealed to me that they had a plan to take the town and destroy it but that they would not harm the statue of Stalin, so I made him an offer. I said: ‘Take the Stalin statue with you instead and never come back again. Take the Stalin.'”

  14. you russian scum will be erased from this planet,you will see! Only several dozen so called “ethnic russians” are left in Rusnya” and you are dying out like flies,you Vodka-scum

  15. Deja Vu:

    Russian Ministry of Defense warned Georgia it would use force “to protect citizens” in South Ossetia in case of “further provocations” by Tbilisi.

    http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=21317

    [EU Monitoring Mission in Georgia] called on all sides to show restraint and refrain “from words and actions that could be considered provocative,” as the anniversary of the August war approaches.

  16. akhmad:
    “you russian scum will be erased from this planet,you will see! Only several dozen so called “ethnic russians” are left in Rusnya” and you are dying out like flies,you Vodka-scum”

    akhmad, you must be on the nod yourself.
    Invent something new

  17. Great article!and by the way isnt it funny watching these ruskies resorting to insults for lack of clearly defined counter-argument, just like Lavrov insulted the british foreign minister on the phone…
    To you, my poor putinjungen reading this article – your end is near, REPENT!!!!

  18. If war happens, Russia is doomed, we shall rejoice on victory of Georgia upon the coffin of Russian imperialism. Death to Russia!

  19. On Georgian Wine:

    The dark shores of karelian lake ozero
    Echo the distant voices of vlad (lenin), otto (kuissein) and Mikhail (suslov)
    While yuri (andropov)the mentored mentor, the ghost conductor, baton in hand,
    At water’s edge beckoning the past youthful souls of the “co-operative” choir
    As the felix group ensemble adds thunderous sunrise harmony
    To gathering storm clouds cunning
    While Gorby green strives to save the planet
    From western environmental demise and destruction.
    Boris lifts a glass.
    Party slovik putin well organized, trained, experienced.
    The hijacked hermitage restored, a new old order
    With stealth and wealth the new nobles victorious elevate their czar.
    The glory restored of the motherland,
    A neft warlord toast with Georgian wine
    Retribution in the wind on the dark shores of karelian lake ozero………

  20. LR: edward: SPAM ALERT!!!

  21. Ukraine most active Georgia’s arms supplier, Moscow sees stance as unfriendly

    Kyiv’s stance on arms supply to Georgia is unfriendly towards Russia, said Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin.

    “We believe that the Ukrainian leadership has taken a stand in the issue of military hardware supplies to Georgia that is unfriendly towards us,” he said in an interview with Interfax on Tuesday.

    “We know which countries and firms are selling arms to Tbilisi. We are gathering information about their activities and operate concrete, verified facts. Ukraine is one of the most active in this respect,” he said.

    Moscow is being straightforward with Kyiv on this matter, he said.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/world/46382

  22. Georgia already screwed up by not making their own Chechen/Wainahk foreign legion (even after the last year’s experience of fighting with the Vostoks). I can’t possibly stress how stupid this failure is.

    • Absolutely. Given the great success that Islamic “Freedom” fighters from the Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus had in defeating Georgia last time out, it would make perfect sense for Georgia to let them into Georgia and arm them in order to make it easier for them to kill Georgians once again:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamil_Basayev

      Shamil Basayev was a Chechen militant Islamist . He was responsible for numerous guerrilla attacks on security forces in and around Chechnya as well as terrorist attacks on civilians, most notoriously the attack on a school in Beslan, located in North Ossetia, which led to the deaths of more than 385 people.

      In year 1992, Basayev traveled to Abkhazia, a breakaway region of Georgia, to assist the local separatist movement against the Georgian government’s attempts to regain control of the region. Basayev became the commander-in-chief of the forces of the Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus (a volunteer unit of pan-Caucasian nationalists, composed mainly of Chechens and Cossacks. Their involvement was crucial in the Abkhazian war and in October 1993 the Georgian government suffered a decisive military defeat, after which most of the ethnic Georgian population of the region was driven out by ethnic cleansing. Muslim Circassian volunteers are estimated to have killed between 25,000 and 35,000 non-Abkhaz civilians during the conflict.

      On July 10, 2006, Shamil Basayev was killed in the village of Ekazhevo, in Ingushetia… Russian officials state that this explosion was the result of the planned special operation. According to the official version of Basayev’s death, a detonator with a remote control hidden in one of the explosives was detonated by FSB agents.

      • King David,

        @”Absolutely. Given the great success that Islamic “Freedom” fighters from the Confederation of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus had in defeating Georgia last time out,”

        And by “Islamic “Freedom” fighters from the Confederation of Mountain Peoples” you surely meant the Russia’s own semi-regular Vostok and Zapad Battalion of the Spetsnaz GRU?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Battalions_Vostok_and_Zapad

        @”it would make perfect sense for Georgia to let them into Georgia and arm them in order to make it easier for them to kill Georgians once again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamil_Basayev

        Are you retarded or something? Shamil and his “Abkhaz Battalion” (as in “veterans of Abkhazia”, like “Afghantsy” in Russia) were armed and trained by the Russians (GRU to be exact). Guess who has been killing ever since 1994, after returning form the short war in Abkhazia and having his country invaded by Russia? That’s right, the Russians.

        @”Shamil Basayev was a Chechen militant Islamist .”

        To cite Jamestown Foundation in 2005:

        “Shamil Basaev’s influence is often overestimated; he is not a political figure in Chechnya. His political program is neither Islamist, nationalist, nor an Islamo-nationalist admixture. According to his own words, he is fighting to “defend freedom and independence, to stop the undisguised genocide of the Chechen people.” His only clear political aim is the withdrawal of Russian forces. ”

        And the next time you and your equally stupid friends (soesn’t matter) edit Wikipedia, don’t press a space bar before the coma button.

        @”Muslim Circassian volunteers are estimated to have killed between 25,000 and 35,000 non-Abkhaz civilians during the conflict.”

        Yeah. The Abkhaz separatists wouldn’t hurt a fly. And too bad for the facts that “only” 4,000 Georgians were killed in this war according to Wikipedia (and then contradicted by “13,000 to 20,000 ethnic Georgians” + 2,000 missing in the article body, which doesn’t change it really):

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993)

        So, 4,000 to 26,000 Georgian soldiers and civilians died , but the “Muslim Circassian volunteers” killed “between 25,000 and 35,000” anyway (civilians only). And a hint: Chechens are not even “Circassian”.

        Yeah, you are retarded. Please don’t edit Wikipedia, post here, or even actually breath anymore. Thanks.

        • Hi Robert,

          I see that you noticed that the kremlin edits wikipedia to further their disinformation. I made a comment about the KGB, and within four (4) hours, the page on wiki changed. I printed the entire wiki entry “before” and “after”. [I saw subliminal brainwashing in action.]

    • My friend that’s a last thing Georgia needs…if chechens want to stand side-by-side with the georgian army, they should get georgian citizenship and join the ranks. in the current state of affairs that’s the only possible way I see it happening.
      plus, today, the chechen resistance is labeled a “terrorist organization” and the rest of chechens side with Kadyrov. when u create a legion u need volunteers, and i dont remember seeing chechens pouring over the border other than with the Vostok battalion on the russian side. so no need to stress :) By the way , the Kisti chechens, who lived in Georgia, particularly in Pankisi Gorge, for centuries do serve in the armed forces…anyhow, death to invaders, long live free Caucasus

      • “My friend that’s a last thing Georgia needs…”

        Actually, the last thing Georgia needs is to lose its independence again.

        “if chechens want to stand side-by-side with the georgian army, they should get georgian citizenship and join the ranks.”

        Did Georgia give it even to the refugees in Pankisi? Why did they move on to the other countries or even returned? And weren’t some even (check this out) forcibly extradited to Russia?

        Just take a look at this outrageous incident in 2004, in which 2 men were covertly kidnapped(!) by Georgian secret services and given to the Russians:
        http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=6339

        Now you can only wonder, if they got “hanged by their balls” in the Russian fashion or did they survive this ordeal.

        And hey, don’t you think they would feel (and fight) the best if among themselves? Because I do. Also France has a Foreign Legion for a reason.

        “plus, today, the chechen resistance is labeled a “terrorist organization””

        By whom, by Russia? Always been. Who cares? In some of the EU countries, to get a refugee status one has actually to prove he used to be a fighter. (No, really – if he was a beyovik, he’s in danger of torture in Russia.)

        “and the rest of chechens side with Kadyrov.”

        Tell this to Isa Yamadayev ;) and Beslan Gantamirov, Doku Zavgayev, and the rest of the Moscow Chechnya Club. But especially to the tens of thousands of Chechens now in Europe.

        “and i dont remember seeing chechens pouring over the border”

        What are you talking about? The border is closed-off, patrolled and heavily mined (from the Russian side) ever since 2000. No one invited them to “pour over the border” neither. (Heck, even the Emiratists’ proposition of alliance is remaining unanswered at all.)

        I guess you don’t know in how desperate conditions those refugees live. Check out this, for example:
        http://www.rferl.org/content/Chechen_Woman_Sets_Herself_On_Fire_In_Spain_/1742368.html

        Just give them a job, a gun again and a cause (old one really).

  23. > Sergei Kovalev, an activist and a friend of the late Andrei Sakharov

    Let’s not drag Andrei Sakharov into this anti-Ossetian and anti-Abkhazian hysteria:

    Sakharov was a great humanitarian and thus was a defender of S. Ossetian and Abkhazian people’s right to independence:

    http://www.intertrends.ru/fourteen/011.htm

    Academician Sakharov wrote in 1989: “Like the Soviet Union itself, Georgia is an empire, only a little one. If the Georgian people have a right to freedom from an empire, then so do all other minorities, no matter how small they are.”

    • Thats interesting,

      Ossetian linguist Vasilii Abaev had this to say regards attempts to separate South Ossetia from Georgia:

      “I would like to be unbiased and clear up whether there were some hasty, senseless activities of Ossets, who intensified the contradictions through provocation. I would also like to say such events took place then. I mean declaration of sovereignty, which was fully orientated to Moscow with the prospect of uniting South and North Ossetia in the future. Aspirations of South Ossetians to join their Northern tribesmen can be understood from the human viewpoint. However, from the geopolitical viewpoint it is a mistake. The main Caucasus Ridge is a natural border between Georgia and Ossetia and any efforts of removing this border will cause permanent conflicting situation between Georgians and Ossets. To restore traditional friendly relations, first of all, the talk should stop on separation of Ossetia from Georgia. No authorities of Georgia will agree with this. And they will be right, because this will mean violation of Georgia’s territorial integrity…
      Who wants peace between South Ossetians and Georgians, should reject for ever the idea of South Ossetia’s joining North Ossetia. Who wants peace between Georgia and Russia, should also put this idea aside. This is the reality”.

      VASILII ABAEV,
      famous Ossetian professor, renowned scholar

      • Andrew wrote:
        > Thats interesting

        Yes, but hardly unexpected. Sakharov was a fighter for the rights of oppressed minorities. His soul couldn’t tolerate injustice and hypocrisy.

        > VASILII ABAEV, famous Ossetian professor, renowned scholar…

        Wow, Andrew, looks like you admire VASILII ABAEV and his views. But tell me: why should the readers value the importance of his opinion more that of Andrei Sakharov?

        What makes you say that Abaev’s views on Ossetian-Georgian conflict are the correct ones? Aren’t you using him simply because he once said something that you like? How much do you know about Abaev?

        Why should we trust him? Do you think that the readers should trust the positions of Andrei Sakharov, probably the greatest human rights fighter in World history and a Nobel Peace laureate, more than those of Abaev?

        • Actually Vasilii Abaev was one of the greatest proponents of the Ossetian language and also a great friend of the Georgian people.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Abaev

          Sakharov, well, he was an outsider to the situation, I prefer Abaev’s opinion on the matter because he understood the reality of the situation, and also understood the history that created it..

          As for “probably the greatest human rights fighter in history” maybe, but he was also a major contributor to the nuclear arms race.

          Thanks, but I will take Ghandi, or Politkovskaya, or Eremistrova, or Markelov any day. They took real risks and paid the ultimate price for the human rights of others.

      • Vasilii Abaev: isn’t this the same Ossetian scientist who decried the Georgian government as “fascist” and called on the World to stop the second Georgian genocide against Ossetians in the 20th century? Or am I confusing him with somebody else?

  24. Andrew wrote:
    > Actually Vasilii Abaev was a great friend of the Georgian people. I prefer Abaev’s opinion on the matter because he understood the reality of the situation, and also understood the history that created it..

    Wow. That sounds very convincing. So much so that I agree with you to hold Abaev as the ultimaste arbiter in the Georgian-Ossetian conflict. Deal?

    Let me search the Internet to see what his views were on this subject. I’ll be back in a few minutes.

  25. Ok, here is the first article I found:

    http://sojcc.ru/res/93.html.
    translated into English:
    http://sojcc.ru/eng_news/295.html

    «Трагедия Юго-Осетии: Беспредел геноцида»,
    «Tragedy of South Ossetia: Boundless Genocide»

    Vasso Abaev

    The essence of genocide… This gravest criminal case has been being done with impunity for several years already by the authorities of the Christian Georgian republic against one of the national minorities, against Christian population of Ossetia. Monstrous cruelty of the planned extermination of the population of South Ossetia, plundering and ravaging houses, social and cultural institutions shocked everyone who heard about it from the eye-witnesses and TV programs. Neither Hilter’s criminals, nor Saddam Hussein’s brutalities in Kuwait and Kurdistan are comparable with them.

    Provincial center the town of Tskhinval in winter is subjected to blockade and deprived of all sources of life support: electricity, warmness, food, even water according to the classical practice of genocide: “deliberate creation of living conditions intended for full extermination of these groups” (see above). New born children freeze to death in the maternity hospital. Old people die in the Retirement home… People are subjected to all kinds of tortures and outrages. Here are paper reports taken on the off-chance from the correspondence. “110 villages are devastated! Capturing of hostages and their torturing became a usual thing. In the first week of April (1991) Tskhinval hospital received teenagers with fire wounds and cruelly beaten woman of 75 years. In one of the yards there’s a woman who is constantly crying and shouting having gone mad from tensity of the last months”. (“Moscow news”, 14 April, 1991). “Several hundreds of armed bandits invaded a village. Houses of peasants began to blaze. Murders and tortures of innocent old women and men. It were beaten till loosing consciousness and then shot a 65-year-old, 60-year-old 70-year-old. 90-year-old Tekle Kazieva was cut off fingers on her left hand, bandits couldn’t take off her golden wedding ring” (“Izvestia”, 5 April 1991).

    Violence from the one side causes responsible activities from the other. But objective observers can notice difference. A journalist visited the morgue in Gori where were killed Ossets and Georgians. She paid attention on the fact that none of the Georgian corpses was mutilated, all Osset corpses were…

    The happening in South Ossetia is understood as a nightmare. You see it with your own eyes but you don’t want to believe it. After all we speak about two people who live in friendship and accordance for centuries.

    “Hosts” and “guests”. Georgian Mass Media, in paper and magazine articles, in statements of responsible officials the concept of “hosts” and “guests” became to be intensively spread. The sense of this concept is simple. Georgians in the republic are “hosts” and the others – “guests”. The conclusion suggests itself. The guest stayed for some time and it’s enough. It’s high time to leave.

    Leader of the Georgian neo-fascists Gamsahurdia once visited Kahetia. Peering at the demographic situation in that region he was outraged. Some “Lakcs”, some “Tatars” intruded on this “fully Georgian” land. “Lacks” are Dagestans, “Tatars” – Azerbaidjanians. They must be turned out. When all “guests” are driven away the desired territorial Ethnocracy will come.

    In the interview to the London paper “The Times” Mr. Gamsahurdia said that Armenians and Azerbaidjanians form together 20% of the population of Georgia – this is a threat to the Georgian nation, the majority of them are enemies (“Sovetskaja Kultura”, 16 March, 1991).

    Mr. Gamsahurdia came to South Ossetia to enkindle by Georgians enmity towards Ossets. In the interview to one Holland paper he called Ossets “criminals” (he calls “criminals” everyone whom he doesn’t like). He stated outraging that Ossets are “uneducated wild people”.

    The propaganda of Georgian fascists doesn’t stop in front of any fabrication so as to defile “wild” Ossets. In their zoological anger Georgian chauvinists rise to such absurd confirmations that I feel ashamed of them.

    “It not only smells with fascism there but it stinks”, Rafael Alberti… In those events the Georgian ethnocratic clique disclosed itself as an organization of a fascist type.

    Hitler invades Austria and states: there is no Austria, there is German land “Ostmark. Gamsahurdia invades South Ossetia and states: there is no South Ossetia, there is Georgian land “Samachablo”. But you’ll not stand out on bare force. Austria again became Austria, South Ossetia will receive its status of South Ossetia again.

    Fascist character of the ethnocratic regime in Georgia is not a secret for anybody any longer either here or abroad. An influential in the USA newspaper writes: “Russian democrats and Western diplomats… are alarmed by the statements of Gamsahurdia against other nationalities; by his accent on special rights of ethnic Georgians, by his habit to call his opponents “criminals”, by his falling back from democracy and press… His positions are alike to fascism, his statement become more and more revolting”.

    The newspaper “La Monde” published the article of Tamaz Naskidashvili: “Approaching to fascism is clear: exaggerated nationalism, suffocating parties, search for “scapegoats”, a leader, presented as messenger of foresight and hero, whose cult becomes obligatory in course of time. Climbing down to mafia also takes place. The dirtiest “business” never was so close to the Government.

    Fascism and mafia go hand in hand. In Georgia the Government is not shy of appealing to dregs of the society, using them as a means of maneuver and to the criminal world to do dirty work. It regards to South Ossetia first of all, where Gamsahurdia wages real war of extermination.

    What a democracy may be if the Government violates human rights, when racial aggression is being practiced towards one of its national minorities? Thanks to Gamsahurdia, Osset people are robbed, starved, beaten, kidnapped. Tortured and killed!

    And if they don’t regain consciousness it would be the turn for Adjarians, Abkhazians. Meskhets, Kurds, Greeks, Armenians…

    Vasso Abaev

    Moscow, 20 May, 1991

  26. http://osinform.ru/1627-v_i_abaev_tragedija_jugo-osetii_bespredel_genotsida_neopublikovannaja_statja_professora.html

    In 1995 I visited Vasily Ivanovich Abaev. During the meeting, Abaev handed me materials from the old Georgian sources that refute the allegations of contemporary Georgian scientists and government officials that the Ossetians are alien element in the Transcaucasus.

    Abaev said: “Alex, as an expert, you know about the Georgian genocide of Ossetians in the 1920’s and in 1989-1992. When a new “hawk” appears in the leadership of Georgia – the same genocides will be repeated again, but on a much worse scale.”

    http://iratta.com/2007/05/29/aiabaev_tragedija_jugoosetii_bespredel_genocida_neopublikovannaja_statja_professora_chast_4.html

    SOUTH OSSETIA: STOP THE VIOLENCE!

    Open letter

    Appeal to the scientists, artists and the mass media of our country

    It’s no secret that the radical forces of the USSR desire the collapse of the Union. But the people of South Ossetia, who paid thousands of lives in 1921 in a situation similar to the current situation, want to remain in the Union, in particular the alliance with Russia, which has traditionally been loyal to the people of South Ossetia.

    Even though the ideologues of the current radical forces dislike this fact, this is the historical fate of the Ossetian people, who had lived in the Caucasus for centuries, but remained loyal to Russians: our Indo-European relatives.

    At present in South Ossetia there is bloodshed of innocent people, not only men but also women and children. Dear Colleagues, we urge you to rise above political passions and make every effort to end the tragedy of South Ossetia. Let us remember that history has repeatedly proved disastrous blind adherence to ideological principles, where every political move not be verified the voice of the heart and mind.

    V. Abayev, doctor of philology, and many others

    Izvestia

    13.02.1991.

  27. As he said, radical forces (on both sides) were destroying the normally friendly relations between the Georgian and Ossetian people.

    Georgians and Ossetians have 3 or so centuries of good relations as a general rule (the main period immigration of Ossetians into the Shvida Kartli region dates from the early 18th century)

    Even after the war of the early 90’s intermarriage rates remained high, and local cooperation was the norm despite the political rhetoric on BOTH sides.

    As stated, V.I.Abaev was a friend of the Georgian PEOPLE as opposed to the government.

    Can you understand the difference?

  28. > V.I.Abaev was a friend of the Georgian PEOPLE as opposed to the government. Can you understand the difference?

    Of course I do. I too share Abaev’s views, including his love for Georgian people: the most hospitable, warm, artistic people anywhere. If I were to spend a “blind” evening with a person from any country in the World, a Georgian would be at the top of my list, even above a Russian.

    And don’t you think that Sakharov too loved Georgians as people?!

    The problem is not the Georgian people’s social or personal qualities. The problem is that they have allowed insane demagogues – the fascist Gamsakhurdia and now Saakashvili – to brainwash them into electing these monsters.

    The problem is that the crimes of genocide committed by Georgia first in 1920 and then by Gamsakhurdia in 1989-1991 have irreversibly made it impossible for Ossetians to trust that if Georgia is given control over Ossetia, there will be no new, third genocide. After all the unimaginable cruelty on both sides, the hatred on both sides is so enormous that if these two peoples are not kept apart, they will commit mutual fratricide. And given how few Ossetians there are in the World, it won’t take much to exterminate them all.

    That’s what I see. That’s what Sakharov saw. That’s what Abaev saw.

    Look, with all their terrible shortcomings, Russian Tsars and then Soviet rulers after Stalin’s death did one thing well: they kept the enormously complex ethnic tensions in the Empire under control, preventing violence. Just as Tito did with another ethnically complicated place: Yugoslavia.

    Ethnic distribution in Yugoslavia and in the Caucuses is like the Russian matryoshka dolls: there are new and new and new and more new dolls inside the previous ones. Inside Bosnia, half of it had Serb majority; but inside those Serb regions there were subregions with Bosniak majority; and inside those – sub-regions of Serb majority, and so on. In fact, any apartment building in Sarajevo had Serbs, Bosniaks, Croats, Turks, Jews living next to each other in perfect peace and harmony. There were no ethnic tensions in Sarajevo during Tito’s rule. People didn’t see their neighbours as different from themselves.

    Sometimes one wonders: maybe in those “matryoshka” regions, it would have been best to keep them all under the Central command? Maybe except for the Baltics, the other 12 republics should have kept a close union similar to the one that Europeans have in EU and NATO? It would certainly have prevented thousands of civilian deaths, be it in Chechnya, Ossetia, Abkhazia or Nagorny Karabakh.

    The break-up of the Union was good not for average people but for politicians who got to rule their own republics without any control. That’s exactly why the Presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus ordered the break-up in 1991: to get themselves absolute powers, to by-pass Gorbachev’s control over them.

  29. And, btw, that’s what distinguishes normal people – be it greats like Sakharov and Abaev or commoners like myself – is that we may hate government sand politics, but we love all other peoples. Whereas degenerates like LR and her fan club truly hate Russian people: our culture, our food, our athletes, our music. And so do you, Andrew. You too think (or at least say) that Russians are evil, just as Hitler thought Jews are evil. You devote your entire life – from 9 to 5 every day – to spreading hatred against average Russians. That’s your entire life: to spread hatred and hateful lies. You seldom if ever elaborate on the wonders of Georgian or any other peoples. No, 99% of what you write are hateful attacks on Russian people. How can you live? When you die and meet St. Peter and he asks “What have you devoted your life to?”, will you proudly answer: “I devoted all my life to spreading lies how drunk, how racist, how uneducated, how horrible average Russian people are!”? Spreading national hatred and prejudices– will that be the fruit of your life?

    And guess what: it is haters like LR and you that cause ethnic wars, Andrew. By saying that a people – be it Russians or Abkhazians – are all monsters, all drunks, all have no culture etc – you justify genocides against them. “Since all Jews are Bolsheviks and bankers and capitalists – let’s kill them!” (as Hitler said). “Since all Russians are drunks and monsters – let’s kill them!” “Since all Ossetians are friends with Russians, who are drunks and monsters – let’s kill Ossetians too!”

    How can you live with so much hate, ladies and gentlemen of russophobic and other xenophobic persuasion? Don’t you get ulcers?

    Don’t you understand that it is more humane, productive and healthier to be xenophiles and russophiles than to xenophobes and russophobes? “Phile” means “love”, “phobe” means “fear”? What is better: to live a life of love or to live a life of fear and hatred?

    If you want to be mentally healthy – stop being a Russophobe. Become a Georgiophile. Instead of spending 10 hours a day writing how terrible Russians and the Russian culture are – spend these hours writing how great average Georgians and Georgian culture are. Stop hating people, start loving people.

    > V.I.Abaev was a friend of the Georgian PEOPLE as opposed to the government

    Yes, he was. He always said that while the Georgian government has been fascist and genocidal, the average Georgian people are wonderful people.

    But you and LR say that the average Russian people and culture are as terrible as the Russian government.

    • My opinions are about the Russian state and its xenophobic/genocidal and imperialist supporters.

      There are many Russians I would crawl over hot coals for.

      The Priest who baptised my daughter, the friends who apologised for Russian imperialism last year, and those who I worshipped with.

      However, the vast majority of Russians I have dealt with have been xenophobic racist scum, intent on “restoring the great Russian state/empire” regardless of the feelings of those who would be crushed by any such restoration.

      You have spent much time here (in your various incarnations) describing all Georgians/Chechens/Ukrainians with various racial stereotypes, you also tend to forget that in both Abkhazia and south Ossetia the Georgian government was reacting to separatist attacks on ethnic Georgians (such as the assault on the Georgian language section of Sukhumi University for example in which several hundered Georgian speaking students and teachers were injured) and the unilateral declaration of independance by Ossetian separatists which was followed by attacks on ethnic Georgians in the Tshkinvali region.

      There are many impressive things about Russian culture, particularly achievements in the arts and sciences.

      But racial tolerance, religious tolerance, and respect for minorities are not apparrent in Russian society historically or today.

  30. >the vast majority of Russians I have dealt with have been xenophobic, racist scum

    Would you please clarify for us all with reasonable exactitude how you have dealt with Russians? For all I or anyone else knows you came to Russia and did prison work for a missionary group or came to do some business in the Urals and met up with a mobster. Or perhaps you had some bad experiences with a Russian love interest. The claim you made in your thread above about your experiences with Russian people is a very strong statement and I think we would all like to know exactly what kind of Russians you are hanging around with.

    • Corey,

      Actually Andrew has said many times that he is from New Zealand and lives in Rep of Georgia.

      As far as his claims go, he is a habitual liar and fabricates whatever claims that suit his propaganda purpose.

      There were numerous times when I caught him at lying about his personal experiences, and he was even forced to apologise for lying by saying that he was “mistaken” or “confused” or “didn’t understand the translation”.

      The only way you can trust his posts is to ask for documentation. If he wants to claim that “the vast majority of Russians are xenophobic, racist scum” – let him provide the documented statistics.

      As far as making such claims based on personal experiences – “the vast majority of Russians I have dealt with..” – he is fabricating because there is no way to check his personal experiences, is there?

      Moreover, if somebody’s only experience with New Zealanders were reading Andrew’s posts here, one would say: “all New Zealanders I have dealt with have been xenophobic, racist, lying scum”. But that would be true only because this somebody hasn’t dealt with any New Zealanders other than Andrew.

      • No Ostap Bender, I mean Phobophobe, sorry Michael Tal (look at how many times you have been banned for falsification old chap) you are the one constantly caught out lying.

        You lie all the time, you misquote, or delete relevant information from your quotes (see the excellent demolition job done on your retarded posts regards the COE report on the August war by Robert), the fact that you have little or no historical understanding of the Caucasus and the outright lies and falsifications you have repeatededly posted on just about every thread you have tainted.

        As stated before, I mainly dealt with Russian civil engineers, being that I was working in construction at the time. I was shocked by the racism shown by said Russians towards the non slavic construction laborers.

        Some more on Russian racist attitudes.

        “Russian xenophobia was clearly evident in two opinion polls released during the spring. In the survey conducted by the Expertisa institute, 60% of respondents said that they do not like people from the Caucasus, 51% hated Chinese, and 47% hated Vietnamese. The idea of keeping Jews out of civil service positions was supported by 42%, and 59% felt that the world should be made to fear Russia, so that Russia might win respect.

        A study by the University of St. Petersburg on the anti-foreign sentiments of Russians between the ages of 16 and 19 was published at the end of March. According to the results, four out of ten young Russians support extreme nationalist groups, and one in ten of those aged 16 to 19 would be willing to beat up foreigners for money.
        “Two out of three Russians feel that Russia belongs to the Russians. At the same time only one-fifth are opposed to nationalism. The atmosphere of public opinion in Russia is getting to look something like that of Germany after the First World War”, Ilyushenko warns.
        He calculates that in five years there has been a change for the worse of about ten percentage points

        http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Russia+hit+by+wave+of+xenophobia/1076152701326

        and

        “About three weeks ago Georgia arrested four Russian servicemen on charges of espionage. Russia responded with a flurry of angry and aggressive language. Russian commentators were talking of imminent war with Georgia. The servicemen were shortly released with the help of Western mediation, but the anti-Georgian campaign in Russia did not subside. Instead in a matter of a few days Russia became the scene of government-sponsored political xenophobia. A government offical announced that Georgians were the most criminal ethnic group in Russia. State television was filled with stories about Georgian criminals operating in the Russian territory. Georgians became the target of a stepped-up campaign of deportations of illegal immigrants.

        Over the years of post-Communist developments, ethnic and racial intolerance has steadily grown in Russia — many factors contributed to this deplorable development, including the war in Chechnya. The xenophobic sentiments are invariably registered by public opinion polls, and the government has done nothing to change this trend. In fact, it may be argued that irresponsible or incompetent governance has even made things worse. But this outburst of anti-Georgia xenophobia is different, because this time it was incited by the government itself. And the public readily accepted the anti-Georgian policy and rhetoric. The polls taken in mid-October showed that 74 percent of the Russian people approved of stepped-up inspections of Georgian businesses, restaurants, and casinos; 38 percent said that Georgians should be deported from Russia, regardless of whether they are Georgian nationals or citizens of Russia.

        I don’t think the Kremlin decided to take advantage of the xenophobic sentiments and use this as a basis of its policies. This time the campaign of anti-Georgian hostility looks more like an emotionally driven response: a desire to take revenge and to punish arrogant Georgia. Whatever the Russia’s motives, however, the encouragement of xenophobia by the government is a very dangerous precedent. It has already cost at least one human life. Today it was reported that another Georgian deportee died of a heart attack, the circumstances are not yet fully clear. More human losses may follow as a result of bad treatment of the deportees or as new incidents of ethnic violence which have unfortunately become increasingly common in today’s Russia.

        Capitalizing on ethnic hatred and xenophobia is an easy temptation for politicians. Historical examples are too many, and the consequences are just too horrible to recall. The Russian people are dangerously responsive to xenophobic impulses, and the government has come dangerously close to exploiting xenophobic energy. But once you get on this tiger, it may be impossible to get off.

        And talking about the political fallout of the anti-Georgian campaign, it threatens to further aggravate the unresolved conflicts over the secessionist territories of Georgia, deepen the confrontation between Russia and Georgia and further complicate the relations between Russia and the West.”

        http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/masha_lipman/2006/10/russian_xenophobia_toward_geor.html

        and a nice graph showing the extent of Russian racist attitudes from the levada centre

        http://foreigndispatches.typepad.com/dispatches/2005/02/russian_xenopho.html

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8230158.stm

      • A bit more on Russian racism:

        “Yuri Tabak of the Moscow Human Rights Bureau said the rise of anti-foreigner sentiment has roots similar to those of the anti-Semitism that arose in Weimar Germany in the 1920s. A once-proud empire has been humbled, there is widespread social chaos, and people are looking for someone to blame. Then, as now, the targets chosen by many are ethnic minorities.

        Mr. Tabak has studied the rapid rise of Rodina, and says co-leader Dmitry Rogozin saw the direction society was headed and crafted his rhetoric to appeal to those who feel left behind by the change Russia has seen over the past decade.

        “Rogozin is actually quite cynical,” he says. “He knows very well what to say at this moment. He moulded his party to play to the current situation.”

        Indeed, Mr. Rogozin seems quite aware that he’s a creation of the current political climate. “If I hadn’t appeared, some other person would have,” he told an interviewer recently. “And that person would have said, ‘The Jews are to blame for this problem. The Azerbaijanis are to blame for that one. The Americans are to blame for yet another.’ ”

        Three years ago, Russia launched a program to contain racism, setting up a hot line and special legal offices for victims of persecution, and establishing tolerance courses in schools and universities. In a televised address, Mr. Putin spoke out against xenophobia and said violent extremists “threaten the future of our country.”

        However, instead of getting better, racist attitudes appear to be hardening, and critics say the program’s effectiveness has been severely hampered by spotty application and the racist attitudes of the authorities themselves.

        According to official estimates, 20,000 people in Moscow alone now belong to skinhead organizations or other extremist groups, a 30-per-cent increase from five years ago. Among their favourite targets are Jews — dozens of street signs last year were painted with swastikas and anti-Semitic graffiti — and those from the Caucasus region on Russia’s southern flank, a historic hatred that has grown deeper through a decade of bloody war in the breakaway republic of Chechnya.

        However, Western diplomats are also targeted, and embassies as diverse as those of Sweden, the United States, Tajikistan and China have appealed to authorities to do a better job of protecting foreigners. The tension builds around April 20, which is Hitler’s birthday, an occasion now marked in Moscow by a spate of racist attacks and neo-Nazi marches even though millions of Russians died during the Second World War.

        The largest neo-Nazi group, believed to be part of the infamous international Blood and Honour movement, is thought to have several hundred members and be behind most organized attacks, such as the riot after Russia’s humiliating loss to Japan in the 2002 soccer World Cup. It puts out Ya Russki (“I’m Russian”), a flimsy newsletter that describes foreigner beatings as victories for the cause.

        Observers say the darker the skin colour, the more likely it is someone will be targeted. Rev. John Calhoun of the Moscow Protestant Chaplaincy says about half his congregation of 400 is of African or Asian descent, and complains of daily harassment.

        The church conducted a survey of 180 Africans in the city and found that 96 per cent avoid the metro system and two-thirds of them have been physically attacked. The respondents reported 204 attacks in the 12 months before the survey.

        “Our congregation drops by half when there’s a major soccer game in the city on Sunday,” Mr. Calhoun says, “since people know not to take the metro that day.”

        Last summer, the chaplaincy organized a picnic in a local park that attracted many of he congregation’s African members. As the group was preparing to leave, dozens of skinheads swept in and attacked the Africans, sending five to hospital.

        Two of the assailants, too drunk to run away, were still in the park, but the police ignored them, instead asking the Africans for their identification papers. Several were being threatened with prison until an official from the American embassy intervened.

        “I run faster from the police than I do from the skinheads,” said one person who was at the picnic. “Once I went to a police station to make a complaint, and the duty officer said: ‘Why are you here, Mr. Nigger? We don’t have any bananas here.’ ”

        Back at the Friendship University, Mr. Regga, the Ethiopian refugee, says it’s all a shock for someone who was initially elated to escape the troubles of his homeland. Before coming to Russia, he had read old books about the Soviet Union’s tolerant atmosphere, and now says he feels deceived. He again wants to flee.

        “I wanted to come here, to study and live in this great country. But now I want to leave this country too. I cannot live here.””

        http://plato.acadiau.ca/COURSES/POLS/Grieve/3593/Russia/racism04.html

  31. Andrew wrote:

    > However, the vast majority of Russians I have dealt with have been xenophobic racist scum

    Exactly my point: you are a liar, a hatemonger and a bigot. You devote your whole life to spreading lies and hate towards average Russian people.

    And you even use unverifiable falsifications about your own “personal experience” to spread these vicious lies around the internet.

    How are you claims any different from racist claims like:

    > “The vast majority of Jews I have dealt with have been selfish murdering scum”

    or

    > “The vast majority of Africans I have dealt with have been criminal scum”

    You are no better than Nazis and KKK. The only difference is that it is not politically correct to spread hatred towards Jews and Africans, but OK to spread hatred towards Russians.

    • Actually the vast majority of Africans I hav dealt with have been good people comitted to building Africa into a continent where rule of law, democracy, and free speech are a fact.

      This is as opposed to Russians who still desire an empire, and are as a general rule racists (see all the news articles from Russia Today or Pravda for example).

      You Tal, are nothing but a kapo.

  32. Then there is the HRW opinion of xenophobic and racist attitudes in Russia

    “Racism and xenophobia are pervasive problems in Russian society, which the Russian government has failed to adequately prevent or combat.[19] In a report on a June 2006 visit, the UN Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, noted, “Russian society is facing an alarming trend of racism and xenophobia”

    and

    “Violent attacks on minorities are one manifestation of racial and ethnic intolerance in Russia. Racist, xenophobic, and nationalist rhetoric is common among political leaders and during political campaigns [31] as well as in the media. [32] Organizations openly espousing racist or anti-immigrant views are increasingly organizing public protests in Moscow and other cities. [33] Discrimination and violence by police and other law enforcement is also a widespread problem and is described in more detail below”

    http://www.hrw.org/ja/node/80466/section/6

  33. Andrew wrote:
    > Who wants peace between South Ossetians and Georgians, should reject for ever the idea of South Ossetia’s joining North Ossetia. Who wants peace between Georgia and Russia, should also put this idea aside. This is the reality”.

    Why did you take this quote out of context? Why didn’t you even have the decency to post a link to the text?

    Here is what followed: UNFORTUNATELY, THE GEORGIAN REGIME IS UNWILLING TO ENGAGE IN A PEACEFUL DIALOGUE.

    Why don’t you post the entire text? Here is the link:

    http://sojcc.ru/res/93.html

    I leave it to the readers to read it in the intirety, but here are some quotes.

    Let’s start with the title:

    «Tragedy of South Ossetia: Boundless Genocide»

    Who wants peace between Georgia and Russia, should also put this idea aside. This is the reality. UNFORTUNATELY, THE GEORGIAN REGIME IS UNWILLING TO ENGAGE IN A PEACEFUL DIALOGUE.

    The essence of genocide… This gravest criminal case has been being done with impunity for several years already by the authorities of the Christian Georgian republic against one of the national minorities, against Christian population of Ossetia. Monstrous cruelty of the planned extermination of the population of South Ossetia, plundering and ravaging houses, social and cultural institutions shocked everyone who heard about it from the eye-witnesses and TV programs. Neither Hilter’s criminals, nor Saddam Hussein’s brutalities in Kuwait and Kurdistan are comparable with them.

    Leader of the Georgian neo-fascists Gamsahurdia once visited Kahetia. Peering at the demographic situation in that region he was outraged. Some “Lakcs”, some “Tatars” intruded on this “fully Georgian” land. “Lacks” are Dagestans, “Tatars” – Azerbaidjanians. They must be turned out. When all “guests” are driven away the desired territorial Ethnocracy will come.

    The propaganda of Georgian fascists doesn’t stop in front of any fabrication so as to defile “wild” Ossets. In their zoological anger Georgian chauvinists rise to such absurd confirmations that I feel ashamed of them.

    “It not only smells with fascism there but it stinks”, Rafael Alberti… In those events the Georgian ethnocratic clique disclosed itself as an organization of a fascist type.

    Hitler invades Austria and states: there is no Austria, there is German land “Ostmark. Gamsahurdia invades South Ossetia and states: there is no South Ossetia, there is Georgian land “Samachablo”. But you’ll not stand out on bare force. Austria again became Austria, South Ossetia will receive its status of South Ossetia again.

    Fascist character of the ethnocratic regime in Georgia is not a secret for anybody any longer either here or abroad.

    Fascism and mafia go hand in hand. In Georgia the Government is not shy of appealing to dregs of the society, using them as a means of maneuver and to the criminal world to do dirty work. It regards to South Ossetia first of all, where Gamsahurdia wages real war of extermination.

    What a democracy may be if the Government violates human rights, when racial aggression is being practiced towards one of its national minorities? Thanks to Gamsahurdia, Osset people are robbed, starved, beaten, kidnapped. Tortured and killed!

    And if they don’t regain consciousness it would be the turn for Adjarians, Abkhazians. Meskhets, Kurds, Greeks, Armenians…

    Vasso Abaev

    Moscow, 20 May, 1991

    • Still do not want to be engulfed by a wave of emotion, a wave of protest and indignation. I want to be objective and look if there were Ossetian side with any hasty, ill-considered actions that provoked and aggravated the confrontation. And I must admit that such actions were. I am referring to the proclamation of sovereignty, geared exclusively to Moscow with the prospect of unification of South and North Ossetia. Gravity South Ossetians to their northern countrymen humanly understandable. But in geopolitical terms it is wrong. Main Caucasian style ridge – the natural border between Georgia and Ossetia, and any attempt to blur this boundary will necessarily entail the state of permanent conflict between Georgians and Ossetians.
      Two years ago the editors of Radio Liberty has asked me to speak on the situation in South Ossetia. Let me quote from this speech.
      Ethnic conflict in South Ossetia – a tragic mistake. It’s time to change their mind back relations between the two peoples in the mainstream of traditional friendship. To do this, first of all, put an end to talk about rejection of South Ossetia from Georgia. None of the Georgian government will never try and be right, because it would mean a violation of the territorial integrity of Georgia. Give an example for comparison. In the south-western France, there is a National District of the Basques. These Basques enjoy full cultural autonomy, preserve their language, have their own schools, maintain vital ties with their brethren in the Iberian Peninsula. But if they wished, along with its territory to join Spain, France for anything this would not have agreed, because it would violate the territorial integrity of states. Pyrenean mountain range – the natural border between France and Spain, and it will remain unchanged. The same is true of the border between South and North Ossetia between Georgia and Russia. Who wants peace between the South Ossetians and Georgians should always reject the idea of joining South Ossetia to North. Who wants peace between Georgia and Russia, should also leave this idea. That realnost.Nekotorye my Georgian friends expressed their satisfaction with my speech on the radio “Freedom” and believed that it is possible to find a mutually acceptable solution on all the contentious issues round table.

      Reconciliation is still possible.
      Many of those who were direct witnesses of events in South Ossetia, expressing doubts about the possibility of reconciliation. Too many say they have accumulated on both sides of hostility and anger. I think they’re wrong. I believed and believe that every person and every nation has the energy coexists good and evil energy. And if in some periods of the energy of evil wins, in any case not despair and think that it is – forever. The energy required good will find its way, and then the former enemies join hands and say: “Are we not, first of all – the people, and then the Georgians and Ossetians.”
      Enmity between the nations themselves do not incite people, and politicians who manipulate people. Hence, the primary task – to free people of influence each of their politicians.
      All emerging issues of territorial, administrative, economic, cultural considerations must be addressed for a round table in a spirit of mutual goodwill and understanding.

      Seems you are still part quoteing Mr retard.

      http://sojcc.ru/res/93.html

      He still insists that South Ossetia should remain part of a greater Georgian republic.

      Enough said.

      • Andrew,

        Since you and Abaev agree that what Georgia has done to S. Ossetia is worse than anything that Hitler has ever done, maybe the first step in the reconciliation should be the Nuremberg Tribunals for all Georgian genocidists?

        I mean, do you thing Jews would ever reconcile and return to Germany if Germany continued its Nazi regime? If Jews returned to Nazi Germany – they would be exterminated.

        If Ossetians return to the rule of the nazi genocidists (as Abaev calls them) Georgian rulers, they too will be exterminated.

        Let’s first reform Georgia the way the Allies reformed German, and then indeed sit down to a conference to decide how to keep S. Ossetia in Georgia while protecting the Ossetians from becoming victims to yet another (third) genocide.

        And don’t give me your usual “But Russians are genocidists too” mantra. Abaev doesn’t say a single bad word about Russians, does he? But if you claim that the Russians are genocidists – then fine, I agree that Georgia should not be returned to Russia. But Ossetia cannot return to Georgia until the nazi genocidists are thrown out of office in Georgia and tried for their crimes.

        • Actually they were thrown out of office retard, in 1992-93 when Gamsakhurdia was overthrown.

          Georgians fought a civil war to stop his government returning.

          However Russia is still run by the same neo-nazis that committed genoicide on the Georgian populations of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

          Georgia is reforming, as as to “genocide against Ossetians” it never happened, look at the fact that more Ossetians live in Tbilisi than in all of South Ossetia.

          You really are an amazingly retarded little hypocrite, not to mention an excellent example of the typical Kapo mentality.

  34. > as as to “genocide against Ossetians” it never happened

    So, you are calling Abaev a liar?

  35. I worte:
    >> I leave it to the readers to read it in the entirety, but here are some quotes.

    Andrew replied:
    > Seems you are still part quoteing Mr retard.

    Duh. Isn’t exactly what I said? Who is the real retard here? Can you understand written words at all?

  36. Andrew wrote:
    > Actually they [genocidal fascists] were thrown out of office retard, in 1992-93 when Gamsakhurdia was overthrown.

    Leaving aside your term “retard”, which clearly shows who the real retard is here, both I and Abaev were indeed glad to see a non-fascist Shevardnadze temporarily replace the fascists, but Abaev knew that this would not last, and an even worse fascist would return. So, he didn’t want Ossetia to be part of Georgia until there is an assurance that a fascist would never come back. And he was right, as the Americans, dissatisfied with Shevardnadze’s not being a fascist, replaced him with a fascist Saakashvili, who is worse than Gamsakhurdia. Just as Abaev predicted:

    http://osinform.ru/1627-v_i_abaev_tragedija_jugo-osetii_bespredel_genotsida_neopublikovannaja_statja_professora.html

    In 1995 I visited Vasily Ivanovich Abaev. ABAEV SAID: “Alex, as an expert, you know about the Georgian genocide of Ossetians in the 1920’s and in 1989-1992. WHEN A NEW HAWK APPEARS IN THE LEADERSHIP OF GEORGIA – THE SAME GENOCIDE WILL BE REPEATED AGAIN, BUT ON A MUCH WORSE SCALE.” What a perfect prediction from Vasilii Ivanovich! In reality, after the coming to power of Saakashvili and his team, provocations against Ossetia from 2004 to today became more condensed and threatening.
    ————————–

    Serbs too replaced Milosevic with nice men. Why isn’t USA returning Kosovo to them? Instead, the West is saying to Serbs: “You screwed up by electing Milosevic. As your punishment, you will never see Kosovo again”

    Well, let me put it this way: S. Ossetia and Ablhazia will return to Georgia exactly at the same time that Kosovo returns to Serbia. In fact, as Rusisa has been saying for many yearts, let’s have a joint conference on how to return them in parallel, but in a way that would protect the minorities against the possibility of genocidal fascists returning to power.

    • Actually Michael, you are definitely lying again.

      It is Georgia that has been pushing for international peacekeeping in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and it has been Russia that has been refusing.

      In addition the Georgians have been offering comprehensive peace plans to the separatists, but Russia has consistently blocked any and all initiatives at internationalising the peacekeeping and negotiations.

      The only genocides perpetrated in Abkhazia and South Ossetia were those comitted by the separatists.

      250,000 Georgians ethnicly cleansed from Abkhazia, and the ongoing repressions against the ethnic Georgian (95%) population of Gali province, and the ethnic cleansing of pretty much the entire ethnic Georgian population of South Ossetia and the destruction of their villages.

      As to fascist governments, well most international observers rate the governments of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as dictatorships maintained by racist policy and ethnic cleansing.

      As the Council of Europe reported, there is no factual evicence of Georgian intent or actions to commit ethnic cleansing, howerver there is plenty of evidence of the Russian backed separatists intent and actions.

      You are a direct supporter of policies that Hitler endorsed you are in short, a Kapo.

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