Obama must stop Putin in Georgia!

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An editorial in the Washington Post sounds the clarion call of warning on Russian aggression in Georgia:

A year ago, Russian military maneuvers and provocations of the former Soviet republic of Georgia caused a couple of astute observers to predict that Moscow was laying the groundwork for a military invasion of its democratic and pro-Western neighbor. The warnings were laughed off — until Russian forces poured across Georgia’s borders on the night of Aug. 7, routing the Georgian army and driving thousands of ethnic Georgians from two breakaway provinces. Ten months later, with another summer approaching, Russia is once again mounting provocations on the ground and in diplomatic forums; once again it has scheduled a large military training exercise for July in the region bordering Georgia.

Could Vladimir Putin be contemplating another military operation to finish off the Georgian government of Mikheil Saakashvili — whom Mr. Putin once vowed to “hang by his balls”? Once again, the scenario is easy to dismiss: The Russian leadership, after all, is engaged in an effort to “reset” relations with the United States; it is seeking support in Europe for discussions on a new “security architecture.” Another fight with Georgia could blow up both efforts.

Still, the facts are these: Russia, in open violation of the cease-fire deal Mr. Putin made with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, has never withdrawn its troops to pre-war positions. Instead it has reinforced its units in Georgia and has between 5,000 and 7,500 soldiers in the provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Moscow now treats as independent states. There are frequent incidents in the border areas, and Russia recently refused to renew the mandate of an international observer mission that had been deployed in and around South Ossetia.

If hostilities were renewed, Georgia wouldn’t have much chance to defend itself. Its defense minister says that the country has not been able to replace much of the equipment lost in the last war. The Obama administration, which is hoping to complete the outlines of a new strategic arms agreement with Russia by the time of a July summit meeting, hasn’t supplied the Georgian government with the air defenses or anti-tank weapons it would need to resist another Russian assault.

Mr. Saakashvili’s best defense, of course, remains political support from the United States, the European Union and NATO. So far, at least, White House rhetoric in support of Georgian independence has remained firm. The sometimes-impulsive Georgian leader has helped himself with his patient and tolerant management of opposition demonstrations that have disrupted Tbilisi for nearly two months; he needs to be as skillful in sidestepping provocations along the frontier, so as to avoid providing the Kremlin with an excuse for intervention. But a peaceful summer in Georgia will also require firmness from Mr. Obama: He must leave no doubt that another Russian advance in Georgia would be devastating for U.S.-Russian relations.

83 responses to “Obama must stop Putin in Georgia!

  1. “Obama must stop Putin in Georgia!” – late drink “Barzhomi” (Georgian mineral water) when the liver to fall off.

  2. Its “Borjomi” you retard, though it is very good the day after the night before!

  3. Andrew – glad to see you! “Its “Borjomi” you retard” – sorry this is so. This is the best mineral water in the world.

  4. Nabeghlavi is also good, as is Likhiani.

  5. The link’s broken, yo.

  6. “Mishiko” necktie hanger:

  7. > He must leave no doubt that another Russian advance in Georgia would be devastating for U.S.-Russian relations.

    Who needs those “U.S.-Russian relations” anyway? :-)

    • Well your oil industry for starters.
      Russian technology is inferior at extracting, refining and transporting oil & gas.

      Russia by its own admission needs foreign expertise in order to continue developing its infrastructure.

      • It can obtain any expertise it needs from the Europeans (Germans, Norwegians, etc.)

        • Not really, and the Norwegians hate Russians too.

          • Russians are not Euros that are loved by everyone. And for a fee, the Norwegians will sell them everything they need.

            • No, the Norwegians are pretty anit-Russian, and smart enough not to sell you anything.
              They still have some territorial issues with you guys too as I recall.
              Norwegians (unlike Russian scum such as yourself) still have principles, and are one of the big supporters of Georgia joining NATO.

              • “A capitalist will sell you the rope on which you’ll hang him.” © V.I. Lenin.

                LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

                “Lenin’s Russia didn’t last a century, capitalist America is now working on its third.” © La Russophobe

                • Oh, not the quotes from another murdering Russian scumbag.

                  Come on Eugene, give (what passes for) your brain a chance.

                  Really, who cares what Lenin has to say about anything?

                  • But in this case, Lenin was 150% right. Stalin proved it when he bought equipment in the West for the industrialization of the USSR in 1930s.

  8. it would not be wise , just to provide georgia with weapons,and let it defend itself alone against a russian aggression. but we- americans and europeans together- must faithfully support georgia and president saakashvili.
    I hope that president obama will find a peaceful solution, but from a position of strength in front of medvedev.

    • Many people here in Russia hope that mr. Obama has enough resources to keep Georgia (country) running. Because otherwise it may collapse very violently, destabilising all the region.

      We also hope he’ll continue to support this pro-Western Georgian government. Saakashvili’s administration, that made such an invaluable contribution in strenthening our influence in this instable and very important region.

      We also hope that the modern government of Georgia will block Russia’s admission into the WTO, seriously damaging interests of Western companies operating in Russia. This will give our domestic producers a huge advantages during the next several years on this market.

      To sum up, may Georgia (country, proper) be united under M.Saakashvili for the next several decades, nobody would argue here.

  9. I live in a democratic country, and I really don’t understand :how can french citizens, who have the same chance, subscribe to russian lies?
    they can keep their strange opinions but why do they expect me to share them?
    as long as we don’t live under russian occupation, we are not forced to close ourselves in a moral “goulag”!
    so, let’s continue to support georgia and its right to live in peace. russia go home!

    • Easy: the French are sissies and cowards. The French word for French man is actually “pédé”. Now they suck Lilliputin off like they did with Hitler but if they are in trouble they rely on USA muscles.

      • Some of them can fight (the French Foriegn Legion at Bir Hakeim for example.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bir_Hakeim

        Of course they were being led by people like Col Dimitri Amilakhvari, a Georgian.

      • john smith, are you english, american?
        I am a french(woman)… but I am sincerely pro-american; and I miss george w bush’s enlightened leadership when he was in the white house ! I am sad, that my point of view is not much shared in my country!
        my question is : how can french(or any other europan) people believe in medvedev’s propaganda ? forty years ago, everybody condemned russia when its army invaded tchekoslovakia ! (I did not : I was 3 years old only…).
        and now ? for georgia? as the russians even spread their totalitarism on internet, they find french people to support their raving anti-georgian hatred?
        totally unbearable ! why do they use internet to “invade western minds”… instead of learning democratic lessons?
        oh! but is internet a russian invention?!!! no !!! and they are too immature to use it decently.

  10. Georgia, should be supported. Supplied by NATO forces quickly. This should start with Turkey sending reinforcements on the Georgian Frontier. That could cut the moscali off from Armenia where they have been based and invited. Just reinforcing Azerbaijan who believe that they are Turks. The Caucasus are like another Afghanistan, when roosha owned the Savok Union. Europe’s turn to take charge, because it is their security. Moscali cannot hang on to Georgia for long, and the rest of the Caucuses. Moscals were defeated in Chechnya, but the world did not support freedom. The price paid to repel moscals would be high if they dared to try. There is no reason a few brave fighters should do it alone. Pootin is counting on EU inertia, after all when forced it could return some of it, like last time. The response must come now, before it is too late. The first black president must show that he deserved the office and not put there as a joke.

  11. it seems,that more and more of you Americans understand,that the chechen rebels are freedom fighters and no islamic terrorists. Episodes like Beslan were done by a few desperate fanatics,but such things happen in a cruel genocide war like in chechnya

  12. medvedev is indulgent with islamic hard-liners, and kadyrov is one of them!
    russian methods are the same all the time : brutal and merciless. but chechnnya has more supporters than georgia!
    the so-called movement of “peace” claimed for sanctions against russia because of war in chechnya; but now, they blame the victim georgia; and not the russian aggressor!
    I do not particularly support chechnya ; but georgia only.

  13. during the nineties, the movement of ” peace ” had similary position on the conflicts in former yugoslavia ;
    first, it agreed when serbia invaded croatia
    then it blamed serbs and croats for bosnia!
    there are the same ulterior motives today , to the detriment of georgia.
    I did not particularly support bosnia, but croatia and serbia.
    I hope that croatia and serbia can reconciliate as france with germany did. and they will join europe.
    I hope that georgia will also join europe… not russia. never russia.

  14. I support anyone at anytime that would go after Moscali in any way that would reform the Kremlin. Anything to bring down the criminal state. even if the Moscali must pay. Rashans wanted this beast and so deserve this to.

  15. Andrew, remember how they were looting toilets in Georgia last year? Maybe you guys start booby-trapping them.

    I’m joking, but then again:

    Police officer killed in south Russian toilet blast

    MOSCOW, June 6 (RIA Novosti) – A police officer died when a bomb, which had been planted in a toilet, detonated in the capital of Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Daghestan, a law enforcement spokesperson said on Saturday.

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090606/155184784.html

    • I guess I know from where they got their inspiration:

      He issued a threat to Chechen rebels using slang terms usually heard only in Russia’s notoriously tough prisons. “If they’re in the airport,” Putin said, “we’ll kill them there … and excuse me, but if we find them in the toilet, we’ll exterminate them in their outhouses.”

      More Putinisms:

      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90083829#90145070

      I think my favourite:

      — During a joint news conference with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in 2006, a Russian journalist overheard Putin talking about Israeli President Moshe Katsav, who had been accused of multiple rapes. “What a mighty man he turns out to be!” Putin said. “He raped 10 women; I’d never have expected that from him. He surprised us all — we all envy him!” The Kremlin later confirmed Putin had made the comments. During a call-in television program, Putin criticized reporters for “eavesdropping” on his conversation with Olmert, saying it was “unseemly.”

  16. Oksana Makarova

    If the Kremlin is so hell bent on “taking over” Georgia then why did it not finish the job last August when it easily could have done so?

    Why go through all the motions and then retreat to the “provinces” of S.O. and Abkhazia, so that it could finish the job in 2009…. a full year later.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    You mean just like it could easily conquer Chechnya and Afghanistan?

    Maybe the presence of Germany’s Chancellor in Tbilisi had something to do with it? American war ships in the Black Sea? Every country in the world condemning Russian aggression?

    Or the fact that Russian soldiers were making fools of themselves, butchering civilians and talking to each other on cell phones? Are you seriously suggesting Russian troops didn’t go to Tbilisi because they didn’t WANT to? That would mean the Kremlin is lying about Saaskashvili being dangerous. Are you admitting that?

    • If the Kremlin is so hell bent on “taking over” Georgia then why did it not finish the job last August when it easily could have done so?

      Things weren’t working out so well for the Russian military in Georgia, basically they had their butts kicked into a stalemate by that small country – and – destroying Tbilisi with airstrikes wasn’t going to play well with decent people in the west, but, you knew that, didn’t you?

      • There was no need to “destroy Tbilisi with airstrikes” since there were no Georgian troops to defend it and it might be taken without firing a single shot.

        • Actually there were troops. The Georgian cease fire orders would be cancelled and shooting resumed.

          Now, you say the Russians would, once again, try the classic Grachev’s tactic of the New Year in Grozny and just drive in in general direction of the Georgian presidential palace?

          • > The Georgian cease fire orders would be cancelled and shooting resumed.

            They just did not have weapons to shoot… they threw everything down so that it would be easier to run!

            See the results of tests of captured Georgian weapons and equipment – http://www.kp.ru/daily/24187.5/397319/

            • Actually Eugene, they still have their tanks, BMP’s, MiL-24’s, SU-25’s, artillery, SAM’s etc, the Russians did a lot of damage yes, but they did not do nearly as much as you like to think.

              • It’s not the weapons that fight, but the people. As to the people… back in 1830s Lermontov justly wrote:

                Недолго продолжался бой –
                Бежали робкие грузины!

                (Not long the fight.
                Of timorous mind,
                The Georgians turn and run! …)

                • “The Georgians, being of the same faith as the Russians, sympathize with the latter and are nowadays both a bulwark of the orthodox
                  church and of the true Russian conservative governmental spirit. In the wars of 1853-56 and 1877-78 they fully proved their perfect fidelity and chivalrous readiness to assist their great deliverers against the Turks. The men of Georgia are renowned for their heroism, while the women of that country are the most
                  beautiful in the world.”

                  Sergei de Wesselitsky-Bojidarovitch.

                  Not to mention their sterling performance in WW1 (where the Caucasus front was the only continuously successful front for Russia until the disasters brought on by the revolution)

                  And in WW2, where Georgians were noted for their heroism at Sevastapol, the Caucasus campaign, Stalingrad, Kursk, The Kertch landings,and Berlin, for example the 63rd Mountain Rifle Division, which became the 52nd Guards Rifle Division which was directly responsible for halting the German advance and denying the German breakthrough at Kursk was an ethnic Georgian division.
                  Georgians received more “Hero of the Soviet Union” medals per head of population than any other ethnic group.
                  Georgians are most certainly not cowards.

                • http://www.2worldwar2.com/russia.htm

                  To summarize, driven by its expansionist Communist ideology, Russia (then the U.S.S.R, or Soviet Union) planned and prepared in every possible military and civilian aspect, and at an enormous scale and cost, to an aggressive war of invasion and occupation, and NOT to a war of defense. While Hitler’s aggression was genuinely his own, Russia cynically used it with the intention that while Germany and the western powers will exhaust each other at war, which they did, Russia will maximize and complete its enormous preparations for war, and will in the summer of 1941 perform a gigantic surprise attack that will first cut Hitler’s Romanian oil supply, then defeat Germany, and then continue to complete the occupation of all of Europe, all the way to Spain. This was the largest, longest, and deepest pre-war effort ever in history, but it was knocked out of course (yet partially implemented later, in 1944, resulting in the occupation of ‘just’ half of Europe) because of a combination of three factors:
                  In mid 1940, following the Russian ultimatum to Romania, Germany’s ally and only source of oil, Hitler realized how urgent it became for him to strike Russia ( which he always intended to do ) as soon as possible and regardless of his unfinished war with Britain and lack of readiness for the Russian winter. In July 1940 the German military was ordered to prepare to invade Russia as soon as the weather will permit in May 1941.
                  Stalin was repeatedly warned by his intelligence services, military advisors, and by Britain, that the Germans are also preparing a giant surprise attack against Russia, and was advised by Zhukov and the General Staff to start the planned Russian surprise attack earlier, in May 1941, instead of waiting to complete ALL the preparations, but Stalin, relying mostly on the verified fact that the German military was not ready for Russian winter conditions, dismissed the warnings and preferred to wait just a little more t complete the preparations for the Russian surprise attack, but that was a little too late, and Hitler struck first, not prepared for winter, but still at enormous power, with the world’s most effective army then.
                  The human factor of morale. When the Germans invaded, instead of fiercely fighting back, the mighty Soviet military machine collapsed and disintegrated at an incredible rate.
                  The missing part of the Red Army’s collapse
                  It is obvious that suffering a surprise attack by millions of soldiers of the world’s best army is shocking, and can result in a military collapse, in high rate of casualties, in organized and unorganized retreats, in surrenders of entire encircled units, etc. Also, the German Blitzkrieg tactic was designed to achieve mass encirclements that will result in mass surrenders of encircled enemy units. The fact that the majority of the Russian ground and air forces, even some naval bases, were deployed close to the border, deployed in the fields and forests in pre-attack concentrations instead of being dug-in, or fortified, or deployed in deep arrays of multiple lines of defense, and further the fact that very large forces and equipment were still on the railways to the front when the Germans attacked, so that they or at least their vehicles were still stuck on trains, all that can further explain the tremendous losses and chaos that the Russians suffered in the first hours, days, weeks, of the German invasion.
                  But what Russian historiography censored for decades, is the large scale of total morale collapse of Soviet armed forces and Communist party establishments which escaped, ‘disappeared’, or surrendered before they even were engaged in battle. Millions, from privates to Generals, individually or as entire units, abandoned their tanks, guns, air bases, without battle, and escaped on vehicles or on foot, or simply disappeared into the nearby villages and forests.

                  Fighting and then losing is one thing. Massive and rapid escape without a fight and massive voluntary surrender, are another, and Soviet censorship tried to hide that, by further intensifying the myth of the destructiveness of the German attack, and by further intensifying the belief that the entire red army was right on the border. There are reports of entire unit staffs which escaped without battle and were found again hundreds of kilometers to the East. There were tens of Generals who disappeared and were never located again. There are reports of tank divisions which, although they were not right on the border and were not engaged in fighting in the first day, miraculously ‘lost’ 100% of their tanks and other fighting equipment in the second day of fighting, without actually being engaged in battle, and then escaped hundreds of kilometers eastwards almost without losing a single truck even to technical malfunction. There are reports of entire Air Force regiments which reported that they suffered negligible or no losses in the air or on the ground at the first day, and then simply abandoned their air bases and escaped by trucks and on foot. In 1941 Russia lost millions of soldiers. Only 32% of the reported losses were the dead and wounded. Millions surrendered, many of them as fast as they could, and so many others escaped from the front, either disappeared or remained in service, but only after a distant escape and after abandoning every weapon or equipment, even rifles and light mortars, that could force them to stay and fight.

                  The apparent reasons for this mass unwillingness to fight were:

                  A further intensified mental shock of those who were always trained educated and taught others that attack and victory are the only possible option, and suddenly found themselves under massive surprise attack for which they never planned or prepared.

                  Stalin, the murderous dictator, was surrounded with people who told him much too often what he wanted to hear about Russia’s preparations for war. The enormous reported numbers of material production and manpower training were perhaps correct. For example the figures of vast mass-training of pilots (which, by the way, were NOT volunteers, unlike pilots anywhere else in the world), and received minimal training, in order to keep up with the enormous training quotas dictated by Stalin.
                  But what Stalin never suspected, was the possibility that in his regime of mass terror and fear, where so many millions were imprisoned and millions others killed by the police, and where tens of millions starved for years in order to pay for the enormous cost of the vast effort to convert Russia with a period of just two decades from a mostly agricultural country to an industrial militarist super-power with gigantic military power. Stalin never suspected that under a massive attack on his brutal regime, the people, the millions of soldiers who previously suffered from the regime, millions were former political prisoners of which many were recruited from hard labor prisons directly to war front military service, will favor surrender to defending their homeland, or will have no willingness to fight immediately as they realized that since they’re country is being massively attacked there’s a good chance that they can escape from the war without being punished by the formidable regime. Given the possibility that for the first time in their life non-cooperation with the Communist regime will NOT be severely punished, so many favored that option, and that’s something the Russian censorship could never admit.

                  So while in all material aspects Russia was enormously prepared for war, and could therefore theoretically manage much better than it did, even under a massive surprise attack, in morale terms, the Russian people in the front (which rapidly moved East all across the long front), were generally unwilling to fight for their terrible terror regime once fear of it was lost since the regime itself was being attacked and in danger.

                  • Seems the Russians are even better at running away.

                  • Please show me one big country wich had only defence plan.

                    • Russia had NO defence plan, or are you too stupid to read Algymuff?

                    • “It was a cheeky blue-eyed feldfebel from shot downed airplane. He did not showed me any stupid or trivial, but it was a man whose views, opinions, views, thoughts again forever trapped in a permanently fixed range, from which the outside did not get out, no thought, no feeling. Within this range, he thought. He did not say that Russia attacked Germany. He said that Germany itself was attacked. But the attack because it knew – Russia in 10 days come to it”
                      (Симонов К. Разные дни войны. Дневник писателя. 1941 г. Т. 1. М.: Худ. литература, 1982. С. 154.)
                      It’s about you, Andrew.

                      Please show me one big country which had
                      defence plan.

                    • Really Algymuff, you are a retard.
                      Large countries with INTELLIGENT leaders (OK, I know that rules out Russia) always have plans for defence as well as offence.

                      Of course, vermin such as yourself are too stupid to understand this.

                    • You didn’t answer. Please show me one defence plan of big country (with links to sources of course)

                    • You can’t to show it becouse no one respected itself country had isolated defence plan. Some defence moments were part of offence. War is offence.

                    • Not if you are the defender, retard.
                      The British had a defence plan for the UK, which was followed with great success in 1940.

                      Ever heard of “The Battle Of Britain”

                      France had a defence plan in 1939, which unfortunately failed miserably, it was called the Maginot line.

                      Nato has many defence plans from the cold war, all of them defensive in nature.

                      War is offence only if you are the attacker algymuff. Unfortunately Russian vermin such as yourself are agressive barbarians.

                    • Maginot line was a part of offence.
                      May 31, 1939 French general staff began to develop a plan of attack on the front, between the Moselle and the Rhine, which was to become the basis for military action against Germany. The plan was proposed by 1 September 1939, General Gamelenom Government. The main blow to the plan be put along the Rhine at Mainz, cutting off the main German forces in the rear.

                      “After the fall of France, the Germans seized the documents the French High Command and in part to publish them. It was a sensational story. Documents showed that during the winter, thinking about plans for the federal command of a variety of offensive operations: plan of attack on Germany through Norway, Sweden and Finland, a strike plan in the Ruhr basin, through Belgium, Germany, plan to strike across Greece and the Balkans, a plan of attack on the oil areas in the Caucasus in order to cut off Germany from the sources of supply of oil. It was a conglomerate of vain imagination allied leaders who stayed in the world of illusion until they are led, in the sense of Hitler’s attack “(Лиддел-Гарт Б.Г. Вторая мировая война. М.: ACT, С.-Пб.: Terra Fantastica, 1999. С. 56).

                      Even Finland in the 30’s had the offensive plan: by the offensive in the territory of the USSR. According to these plans the Mannerheim line reflects of attack from the south, and the Finnish army has come across the front to the east of Karelia (Talvisodan historia. Osa. 1. S. 98, 104.)

                      About defence of Britain I asked plans before war. And in any case defence was a part of offence. By only defence one can’t win war.

                      And about defence plan of USSR:

                      Once one of the potential opponents of the plan in 1938 has been eliminated, the General Staff began development of a new operational plan. Here are some excerpts from the version of the plan, dated September 18, 1940, in part, on the North-Western Front. “The main problem was his defensive cover for the Baltic Sea coast from the beach-master an enemy, well cover Minsk and Riga-Pskov directions.”(1941 год. В 2 кн. Кн. 1. М.: Международный фонд «Демократия». 1998. С. 242).

                      As always your words aren’t confirmed by sourses. In other words you are liar.

                    • Really Algymuff,
                      Calling others liars because of your Russian blinkers is really stupid.

                      The Maginot line was intended as a defence system.

                      Planning and construction
                      The defenses were first proposed by Marshal Joffre. He was opposed by modernists such as Paul Reynaud and Charles de Gaulle who favoured investment in armour and aircraft. Joffre had support from Henri Philippe Pétain, and there were a number of reports and commissions organised by the government. It was André Maginot who finally convinced the government to invest in the scheme. Maginot was another veteran of World War I, who became the French Minister of Veteran Affairs and then Minister of War (1928–1931).

                      Part of the rationale for the Maginot line stemmed from the massive French losses during the First World War, and their effects on French demographics. The drop in the national birth rate during and after the war, resulting from a national shortage of young men created an “echo” effect in the generation that would provide the French conscript army in the mid-1930s. Faced with inadequate personnel resources, French planners had to rely more on more elderly and less fit reservists, who also would take longer to mobilize. Static defensive positions were therefore intended not only to buy time, but also to defend an area with fewer and less mobile forces.

                      The line was built in a number of phases from 1930 by the STG (Service Technique du Génie) overseen by CORF (Comission d’Organisation des Régions Fortifiées). The main construction was largely completed by 1939, at a cost of around 3 billion French francs.

                      Construction was begun in 1930, and if they changed the plan in 1939, well it is interesting that the plan was never carried out.

                      You also misinterpret the concept of the COUNTER ATTACK which is part of any defensive plan.

                      This is not surprising given the level of retardation in your intellect, and in your nations education system.

                      Finlands never had any intention of attacking the Soviet Union, except in response to Russian agression.

                      Stop twisting sources, of course as you are a russian educated moron, this might be a bit hard.

  17. Oksana Makarova

    By the way, congrats on your D-Day thingy celebrations. Thanks god you guys came and saved Europe.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    Interestingly, we didn’t realize until later that we were saving Europe from Russia, not Germany. When is the anniversary of Katyn?

    • Why couldn’t they open the second front two years earlier, when Hitler was bent on seizing the Caucasus and Baku oilfields? And after the best German divisions were ground to dust by the Red Army, it was clear that Nazi was doomed to defeat… so they did it lest Stalin would pass through Europe right to the Pyrenees like a hot knife through butter. And nevertheless the “tough” Anglo-Saxons got themselves in such a mess in the Ardennes that Churcill begged Stalin to save his fat ass. :-)

      • Eugenics,

        @”Why couldn’t they open the second front two years earlier, when Hitler was bent on seizing the Caucasus and Baku oilfields?”

        The “second” (first) front was opened all the since 1939. Until August of 1941, the Soviets killed the total of zero German soldiers (maybe in some friendly fire accidents) but instead eliminated hundreds of thousands of Allied troops in Poland (of whom tens of thousands later died or where systematically murdered).

        @”And after the best German divisions were ground to dust by the Red Army, it was clear that Nazi was doomed to defeat… so they did it lest Stalin would pass through Europe right to the Pyrenees like a hot knife through butter.”

        Since 1943, half of the German tanks were in France, awaiting the invasion. And there they were detroyed in summer of ’44, together with the reinforcements (yes, more tanks and StGs destroyed than in Bagration – 3,000 to 2,200). A big number (500) was also lost while vacating Central Italy in May. And the Panzerwaffe was the bacbone of whole Wehrmacht.

        The rest were in the east and in Italy – both were merely sideshows according to Hitler’s directives. The defense in the east in ’44-’45 was based on Heer’s infantry divisions, weak towards the end of the war. The goal was to defeat the invasion of France and turn the tide back on the Soviets.

        And hat’s why

        @”And nevertheless the “tough” Anglo-Saxons got themselves in such a mess in the Ardennes that Churcill begged Stalin to save his fat ass.”

        the Hitler’s last real tank reserves were thrown into the Ardennes, where they were destroyed too. By the Americans, I don’t know where you found Churchill.

        He didn’t “beg Stalin to save his fat ass” during the Britain’s Finest Hours while preparing to “fight in the mountains and never surrender”, so why would he in ’44? For years the Allies faced the Axis alone without the Soviet help (or even the US involvemeny) and didn’t cry for “opening of the second front”.

        As of the Luftwaffe (including Flak), by 1943 most were engaged in the West.

        And as of Kriegsmarine, practically all of it was in the West all the time.

        • Churchill’s letter to Stalin of January 6, 1945:

          “The fighting in the West is very hard, and the Supreme Command may be forced to make large-scale decisions at any time. You know from your own experience how alarming is the situation when you have to defend a very wide front after a temporary loss of initiative… I shall be grateful if you are able to inform me whether we can count on a large-scale Russian offensive on the Vistula front or elsewhere during January or at any other moments you may wish to mention… I consider this an urgent matter.” (I had to translate these quotation back into English from the Russian publication).

          Stalin’s reply of January 7, 1945:
          “We are preparing for an offensive, but the weather is not favourable for our offensive now. However, in view of our allies’ situation in the Western front, the Soviet Supreme Command decided to accelerate finishing preparations and to start wide-scale offensive actions against the Germans all over the Central Front not later than the second half of January regardless of the weather. You may rest assured that we shall do anything possible to render assistance to our glorious allied troops.

          As to your statistics, it is a fact that out of every 10 German soldiers lost in action, 9 were killed on the Eastern front. The greatest threat to a German soldier of the WWII was: you’ll be sent to fight the Russians!

          LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

          Umm, we’re a bit confused. Are you quoting Stalin, a mass murderer, as a source of historical fact about his own government’s behavior? Just wondering . . .

          You didn’t have to translate, actually, you coudl have gone to the orginal source. But that would have been actual work, wouldn’t it. Yeah, why bother. It’s the Russian way!

          • And now compare the numbers of prisoners taken.

            That was also the reason to not be sent to the eastern front (and there very likely either fight to the death or be killed while trying to surrender).

            This was the effect of the barbaric Soviet POW policy (to be exterminated or used as slaves), also displayed in regards to their own captured soldiers (“traitors”) – not even Geneva Convention signed at all.

            About how many died on both sides in the East:
            http://www.dupuyinstitute.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000051.html

            • So now you don’t object to the fact that in January 1945 Stalin sped up the start of the Soviet offensive (Vistula – Oder operation) in response to Churchill’s thinly veiled plea for help?

              2LR: Strange as it might be, in that correspondence the leader of the Beacon of Democracy (Great Britain) treats “mass murderer” Stalin as an equal.

              More to that point:

              It was an experience of great interest to me to meet Premier Stalin. The main object of my visit was to establish the same relations of easy confidence and of perfect openness which I have built up with President Roosevelt. I think that, in spite of the accident of the Tower of Babel, which persists as a very serious barrier in numerous spheres, I have succeeded to a considerable extent. It is very fortunate for Russia in her agony to have this great rugged war chief at her head. He is a man of massive outstanding personality, suited to the sombre and stormy times in which his life has been cast; a man of inexhaustible courage and will-power and a man direct and even blunt in speech, which, having been brought up in the House of Commons, I do not mind at all, especially when I have something to say of my own. Above all, he is a man with that saving sense of humour which is of high importance to all men and all nations, but particularly to great men and great nations. Stalin also left upon me the impression of a deep, cool wisdom and a complete absence of illusions of any kind. I believe I made him feel that we were good and faithful comrades in this war—but that, after all, is a matter which deeds not words will prove. (c) W.C. Churchill. War Situation (a speech before the House of Commons), the 8th of September, 1942. (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1942/sep/08/war-situation#S5CV0383P0_19420908_HOC_303)

              • If you see this way, he also “treated the devil as equal” (“If Hitler were to invade Hell, I should have to say a few favorable words about the Devil”).

                • Saying favourable words about the Devil is one thing, but begging him for help is another. :-)

                  • Your “thinly veiled plea for help” now “begging”? What next, “fellatio on Stalin”?

                    Hitler redirected half of all German tanks to France in Dec. 1943, well before the actual opening of the “second” front. The difference is that after June-September ’44 they were no more.

  18. Oksana Makarova

    For a full history of how the glorious Georgians kicked ass and took names with those weak little South Ossetains and Abkhazians, check-out:

    http://circassianworld.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-obama-should-learn-from-past.html

    Ooooh-ra baby!!!!!!

  19. @Eugene , ” why did you not enter two years
    erlier etc. ” , great point , I wish we did , even earlier , for instance in ’39 or ’40 or ’41 when
    germans and ruskis were kissing each other
    on the lips ( very much like today ) , that way we
    could have kicked all your asses .
    The Hitler -Stalin love match just didn’t work
    out , despite the best efforts of the Molotov-
    Ribbentropp matchmaker duo .
    Oksana Makarova , what a pretty name , at least
    the first one . Is it yours ?

  20. Oksana Makeherova, So what did moscali accomplish?

    Robing another piece of Georgia. Pouring massive quantities of forces and air power? Leaving cluster munitions laying around for some child to pick up.

    Did invasion bring honor and respect watching Moscali Looting and “ethnic cleansing” a neighboring country again? Did the world notice? Is there a You Tube? You bet the world noticed, and moscali had to step back. The whole Vermin, fly and worm Rashan Federation would not have business anymore with anybody except Nicaragua. That is why Pootin and KGB money sits in London, in case Rooshans decide to have a revolution and demand justice, but that would require honor.

    The Kremlin is never sure however, and cannot understand that part and it worries them. So Putinoids do not invest in Rooshan Scumbag Country of ill starred dolts that are always drunk and getting mad at each other.

    Georgians however showed guts and did whatever possible. That was to fight, even when you know the outcome was against them. Shakasvili told the world for months, and knew there would be no help coming. Honorable, just knowing that you may have to pay the ultimate price in defense of your nation and family.

    You Oksana Maka whatever your real name is, are another feeble minded Ugro Hunic Mongolo Tataric whore or child molester with no feelings. I can tell because you rejoice in human suffering caused by your ilk. But not for long.

  21. Gary Marshall

    Eugene,

    Churchill did not like the Soviets at all. But he said to Roosevelt that as the Nazis are enemy number one, they must support any one who is against the Nazis. So the US and Britain’s commonwealth supplied the Soviets with all they could. These supplies along with German unpreparedness for their initial Russian winter kept the Germans from overunning Moscow.

    I do not know the Churchill speech you are quoting, but it was indeed for public consumption. It belied Churchill’s true feelings for ‘Uncle Joe’, the former Axis ally who realized Nazi treachery, which had been on display for about 10 years, at great cost in Soviet lives. Citing the date, the speech was undoubtedly to persuade the allies to forget Soviet treachery and forge an alliance to defeat the Nazis.

    Read what Churchill said about Stalin after WW2.

    “An iron curtain has descended across the continent.”

    Gary Marshall

  22. I do not understand what the dispute. The Second World has won an American weapon, the persistence of English and Russian blood. Well, and then was split on the incurred costs. At that time, they are arranged. Then the desire for a new split. It does not matter what order in these countries – a policy for the history of war and peace after the settlement has not changed since the times of ancient Egypt. When will mankind be truly civilized?

  23. When the Kremlin is finally crushed and Roosha is partitioned. The other smaller problems will go away.

  24. For George
    Ivan Grozny finally crushed, Peter1 finally crushed, Last Zar finally crushed, Stalin finally crushed, Soviet system finally crushed and MedvePut is finally crushed… Who next?
    And if you look deep into history – who were the genetic ancestors of the Slavs such continuity there over 3500 years. Throughout the history of Russia it is often changed its borders, but it had no effect on it and the very people who live there. It too has gradually changed so consistently clear crushed.

    • For newsky,
      The Kremlin Moscal State is an example of Pernicious Failure to Thrive, except by feeding off of others. Psychic Vampirism, in Soviet Psychiatric Terminology only, is real.
      For Roosha, another breakup will occur. Notice that each time this occurs faster.
      Rooshan Fino Ugro Mongol Tatarism will try to poison or isolate anyone capable in their midst or on the perifery. (“I simply inform others of the truth and THEY lie and use propaganda.”) So Rooshan “Society” cannot find partners willing to take risks of everyday dealing with Rooshia’s low life mobsters. The world tries to get their investment’s money and get out before something bad happens. Usually too late. Once this zone is partitioned, to a properly manageable size, and territories separated and redistributed, again, to their original owners, more can be done. Ultimately the destruction of moscal society will be final.

  25. “Ultimately the destruction of moscal society will be final.” – When? After next thousand years or tomorow?

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    If Putin’s Russia lasts as long as the USSR and then collapses as spectacularly, will you be happy?

    • Moscowschina will Collapse Sooner than when Savok “unexpectedly” collapsed 20 years ago. Much sooner, as enemies close in. Already scumbags fleeing, have moved wealth and children to Schools and apartments in London and the West. Why are they running away from Piz mother Rasha’s loving arms? Nothing works anymore.

  26. Thank you. Because of your strong reasons, I realized that moskovchina collapse is not imminent.

  27. Georgia first attacked Abkhazia (Russia), are all well aware, but you get only false information, you have friends in Abkhazia? in Georgia? You better ask them. Georgia has killed many civilians!

  28. Not as many as the Abkhaz have killed.
    And the 1st attacks on civillians were made by separatists when they attacked unarmed Georgian university students in Sukhumi in 1989

  29. In addition, it the the Abkhaz who are known the world over as ethnic cleansing war criminals. And for good reason too, the Sukhumi massacre springs to mind.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhumi_massacre
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Georgians_in_Abkhazia

    Click to access georgia953.pdf

  30. Dear, Andrew – Never argue with Georgians and Abkhazians on their relationship – between the blood and each has its own truth.

  31. However, I confirm that according to the facts, the Georgians have killed more civilians.

  32. Not according to the UN, HRW, OSCE, UNHCR.
    The Abkhazians (and Russian scum such as yourself) killed over 30,000 Georgian civillians during the war in Abkhazia.
    The Abkhaz separatists (and their Russian backers) conducted a planned genocide and ethnic cleansing campaign in Abkhazia which almost completely eliminated (through outright murders, torture, and terrorizing the remaining population into fleeing) the Georgian population, which made up 50% of the provinces population, compared to 18% who were ethnic Abkhazian.
    According to which facts “New-Sky”, do you make your rediculous claims?
    There is a reason why no country, except for lice run infestations such as RuSSia and Nicaragua will recognise Abkhazian or South Ossetian independance (even Belarus refuses to do so), and that is because the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the crimes comitted were comitted by Abkhaz, Ossetians, and most of all RuSSians.

  33. Jun 16, 5:55 AM EDT

    Russian veto ends UN mission to Georgia

    By JOHN HEILPRIN
    Associated Press Writer

    UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Russia has brought to an end the nearly 16-year-old U.N. observer mission that monitored a cease-fire between Georgia and its breakaway Abkhazia region.

    Russia exercised its veto power in the U.N. Security Council – toppling a Western plan to extend the life of the U.N. mission for another year, or even two more weeks, to work out a compromise. The vote late Monday was 10-1 with four abstentions – China, Vietnam, Libya and Uganda.
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_UN_GEORGIA_RUSSIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

  34. Russia is going backwards: BANNING/CRIMINALISING GAMBLING INDUSTRY. WHAT A GAGAH NATION!!! COMPLETE IDIOTS. RUSSINS WANT IRON REGIM…RUSSIANS DO NOT ACCEPT COMFORTABLE LIFE.

    • In the USA, gambling industry is concentrated in Las Vegas. Two years ago the Russian government also set aside several areas for creating such gambling areas; nevertheless, the gambling thugs did not build anything there in the hope that they’ll be able to lobby the reversal of the ban. They failed to do it; who is to blame?

      > RUSSIANS DO NOT ACCEPT COMFORTABLE LIFE.

      Is losing all your money on roulette or one-handed bandits your idea of “comfortable life”?

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