EDITORIAL
Give Poland her Missiles, Mr. Obama!
Polish leader Donald Tusk is practically begging the Obama administraton to give his country the Patriot missiles it needs to protect itself from Russian aggression. Having seen Russian tanks rolling into Georgia last August, every man woman and child in Poland is on edge, remembering only too well how it feels to look down the business end of a Russian tank barrel. The horror of Russia’s Katyn massacre of unarmed Polish officers still fresh in their minds, and a proud KGB spy ruling Russia, Poland knows it needs to act and act fast in order to protect itself.
President Obama must pay heed. In a recent magazine essay, Russian dictator Vladimir Putin stated: “I’m deeply convinced that constant change is not for the better. Neither for business, nor for people. In the end, it will be the same thing as before, if not worse.” And indeed, verily it so. Russia is still ruled by the KGB, the melody of the hymn of the USSR still plays, Russian tanks are still on the move in Soviet space, and Poland is still terrified beyond words.
If Barack Obama ignores Poland’s pleas, he will go down in history as the American Neville Chamberlain, the man who gave Russia the vital leg up it needed in waging the second cold war. For his own sake, and that of the free world, he dare not do so.
La Russophobe 
Why the HELL DID WE NOT SELL same arms to Georgians? WHY? It was OK to sell those weapons to Afghani’s to Vietnam… WHAT were they defending? Nothing! It was just against Soviet sickness. Georgia WAS defending its democracy and is doing it right now, I should know as somebody who has been there many times, it’s a shame we did nothing to aid Georgians. I feel ashamed. :(
James,
Agree with you. I think the first time around nobody thought Russia would invade. Since last august, there is no excuse for not helping Georgia with massive military aid. Patriot missiles, Hellfire/Tow missiles etc. Russians would think twice before engaging modern western weapons in the hands of trained troops.
TOW is hardly top-notch (Vietnam-era).
They have been continually updated. The launchers are on the new stryker vehicles too. They also have a new wireless version.
I’d say “so the Russians won’t sell advanced weapons to the America’s enemies” but they do this anyway.
Even to those who then couldn’t really use them, like the Myanmar (Burma) junta.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/HD28Ae03.html
Barack is a weakling. I want missiles in Poland and radar in my country (Czech Republic). When third world war brokes out (and it will hopefully be soon) I want to be protected by American missile defense system. I want to see the rest of the world burn, not my country.
Only a fool desires war.
Your death will be slow and tortuous one then… caused by radioactive contamination of the planet. I’d prefer to be burned, at least it is going to be quick.
Dear Eugene,
Please relocate to Chelyabinsk Oblast.
I wont have any complaints about this scenario. Hopefully when this happens all of North America, Europe and China will be oblitereated with nuclear weapons, once these obstacles are wiped out, it will give my country a perfect opportunity to restore its imperial reign and pursue its divine destiny to rule the world.
Junichiro, you made an appearance this week at Robert Amsterdam’s blog and now you are here, no surprise as you are another of Putin’s pilot fish, a small school that I suspect their changes names regularly, trolling for reactions.
Even though the names change the transparent hate spewing idiocy of Putin’s useful idiots remains the same.
Hi penny,
I am glad that Junichiro agreed to relocate to Chelyabinsk Oblast.
During the early days of operation, technological failures resulted in the release of large amounts of radioactive waste into the Techa River. Residents who lived in villages on the banks of the Techa and Iset Rivers were exposed to varying levels of radioactivity.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1395384
The “European hyena” © W.S. Churchill) Poland should know better than siding with Americans… eventually it’ll end up in the Russian security belt again the way it did after the Napoleonic wars and the WWII. :-)
You mean in the raped and opressed countries belt?
Russia is a whorehouse of the KGB
Russians are always indignant about the expansion of the NATO alliance. They always scream they are being encircled when the NATO approaches their borders. Comments like yours (only made by your chieftains) explain very well why countries like Poland or Georgia need the NATO and why they are, and should be, mortally scared of Russia. The regime may be new, but the threats remain the same.
Dear RV,
Must all 150 million Russians (including newly born babies) commit suicide so that the Poles, Georgians and other quasi European scum would be able to look eastwards or nothwards without wetting their pants?
Good idea, Eugene
Please go ahead and commit suicide, all of your 150 million drunkard scum, make our day. We Georgians, Poles, etc are eagerly waiting for it.
President Barack Obama is an enthusiastic supporter of nuclear disarmament and has made progress in this direction a priority of his administration.
Moscow and the Savokian Turds will break up, and we don’t want to see nuclear waste floating around like the last time the SU fell apart.
The more nuclear weapons, the more peace.
Sure, that’s why the civilized world wants Iran to have nuclear missles.
What’s your game, Pavel?
It’s like if Iran was a real threat…
Anyways my point is: mutual assured destruction (MAD).
I’m pro-Georgian, but we all must admit that Georgian soldiers due to strategic mistakes and weak morale have left a lot of weapons/tanks/amunition in battlefields and barracks just to be taken or destroyed by Russians. In the interview of Chechen unit commander, he said, when they entered town of Gori, they have found enough weapons to defend the town for one month.
ttc,
I did mention the term “trained troops” in my comment. After what happened last august, I would hope the Georgians have been busy getting people ‘trained’. It seems the Russian troops aren’t very well prepared either, that’s probably why they need large amounts of troops against tiny countries. I suspect the Georgians will give a much better accounting of themselves if the Russians try it again. Like Andrew has stated many times, there is no love lost for Russia in the nation of Georgia. It also seems that Russians like to exaggerate their success, and downplay their misfortunes, which is a common thing in military operations.
Well, to be fair, a large chunk of Georgia’s full time soldiers were in Iraq, most of those facing the Russians were conscripts and reservists.
The problem with morale stemmed directly from the Presidential order to cease fire which came a day or so before the Russians actually occupied Gori (my wife and daughter just got through the town about 30 min ahead of the Russian tanks).
The majority of Georgian men I know wanted to “go to the forest”, but were severely demoralised by the governments refusal to continue fighting once the west started pushing for a ceasefire (which has been repeatedly violated by Russia of course)
On current events, the (Russian supported) oppositions protests are failing, so now the Russians seem to be returning to tried and tested metheods, such as bombs placed on railway tracks.
http://www.rferl.org/content/Georgia_Official_Calls_Rail_Blast_A_Terror_Attack/1744822.html
> The majority of Georgian men I know wanted to “go to the forest”
“A Georgian guerilla” sounds almost as queer as “a Jewish reindeer driver”. :-)
Actually Eugine, as usual you show your stupidity and historical ignorance.
Georgians are well known as good partisan fighters, and Georgian officers and NCO’s were used by the Red Army in WW2 to create and lead many of the Partisan formations created behind German lines.
Georgian partisans also caused huge problems for both Tsarist and Bolshevik armies during the revolutionary period.
As usual you are a moron.
After all, great Stalin, Berija and many other hardcore bolsheviks (such as Ordzhonikidze) were from Georgia. They are a tough nation.
So what, hardcore bolsheviks had an international following way back then.
Their Georgian roots only proves that every country has it share of sociopaths that can be recruited to a cause. But, you knew that Pavel.
Nice try at putting gown Georgians though.
Too bad that I didn’t try to put Georgians down. Also I would never call bolsheviks sociopaths. They were just Georgian bolsheviks and they ruled Soviet Union for some time. That’s actually admirable, not despicable.
Pavel, you make comments that are double edged.
The Georgia’s previous government commited a big mistake by expelling the Gelayev’s Chechens (following the quite senseless Kodori raid with the Forest Borthers).
If they did it smart, they would keep them in reserve just like Saddam kept the Iranian Mujahideen Khalq – not allowing them to cross the Georgian-Russian border during peacetime, but unleashing them in the case of war.
To be fair, they did that under pressure from both the US and Russia.
There are actually still a lot of Chechens here though, both in Pankisi, and here in Tbilisi.
Andrew,
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_refugees#Other_countries only (alternatively) several hundred to more than 1,000 and they’re civilians (so during the 2008 war they simply fled with their Georgian neighbours, even as this part of country was invaded).
That’s what they did:
DUISI, Georgia — When war broke out last month and helicopters appeared over the valley in which this town lies, Taos Yerznukaiva did not wait to see what would happen. She packed up her family members, including a 2-month-old baby and a pregnant woman, and fled south to the border with Turkey.
She had learned in Chechnya, she said, how to escape from the Russians.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/27/AR2008092702586.html
To be fair, there are about 1,100 still registered as refugees, though others took the option of Georgian citizenship, and were no longer classed as refugees. More still chose to leave for the west, places such as Austria etc, due to the close proximity of Russia, and the long reach of its FSB thugs.
Georgians and Chechens share the Caucasian mountain culture, and the cultural links are very strong. Watch if you can the traditional dancing of both peoples, it is almost identical.
It is a shame that Russian propaganda has tried to portray Chechens as “mountain barbarians who only live to make war”, the truth is that they, like their Georgian cousins, have a rich culture of music, dance, literature, and myth and legend.
Still, from the same article:
Some recalled watching TV reports of Russian tanks near the capital and finding it strange to see no resistance from the Georgians, not even a rock thrown. Chechens would never have let that happen, said Lia Margoshvili, a Georgian Chechen who works with refugees here. “Chechen kids, when they’re in fifth or sixth grade, they learn that they have to kill Russians — but the Georgian kids, they learn, I don’t know, books or something.”
;)
Anyway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kist_people are basically the Chechens of Georgia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bats_people are the assimilated ones?
No, they are both groups with several centuries residence in Georgia.
The Chechens that have recently taken Georgian citizenship are a different matter. As I understand there are about 1000 refugees, and a similar number of people have received citizenship. Another 2000 – 3000 have left for mainly western europe and Turkey.
As for the Georgian kids not throwing rocks at tanks, seems kind of smart to me.
The Georgians are much better at obeying the authorities, the Chechens are still much more clannish. The Georgian government ordered a stop to all fighting so the army obeyed the order.
They certainly did not like the order one little bit.
However if ordered to fight, or if the country was occupied by Russia, you would see them give a good account of themselves, despite being more urbanised than their Chechen cousins.
I don’t think the Poles are that afraid, it’s not like they’re in danger of being invaded or something (unless if someone still takes Zhirinovsky seriously, or the silly Kaliningrad missile threats).
Well Robert, they do have good reasons to be afraid if they are. As you read above, according to a Russian poster, it’s OK to threaten Poland and Georgia and other “scum” (presumably, the Ukraine), because not threatening them would be somehow tantamount to committing suicide.
Yes, but in practice they just can’t attack any NATO coutry without starting WWIII.
And I don’t think WWIII is part of “Putin’s course” (also because there’s not much money in this).
Please read the NATO charter (including Clause 5) more attentively… Do you really think that the fat pindosy will start a nuclear war to protect some territorial formations most of the pindosy can’t even locate on the map?
“The “European hyena” © W.S. Churchill) Poland should know better than siding with Americans… eventually it’ll end up in the Russian security belt again the way it did after the Napoleonic wars and the WWII. :-)”
…which is precisely why we want the missiles. Actually, when Kaczynski signed the deal with Bush, many assumed the missiles would probably go away quietly with whatever administration followed Bush, Dem or Rep — and Evgenny, someday I’ll explain the concept of democratic elections and change of leadership to you — but the point was simply to get a permanent American military presence in Poland. The bases were more important to us than whatever was put in them.
@Robert
Actually, that fear is not entirely absent, nor is it irrational. Completely forgetting for a moment our history of the past two centuries since 1772 — o hell, 1700 — there’s the reality that Russia is a failing state. Its population is in rapid decline due to a collapsing living standard and crumbling healthcare, its already infamously corrupt political system is devolving into a thuggish bribocracy that makes the Sicilian mafia look like girl scouts, and in rescinding many of the crucial economic reforms of the Yeltsyn era, Putin has downgraded Russia’s economy to an sub-Saharan African level so that Russia derives the majority of its annual GDP from the export of raw, unrefined natural resources, making it very vulnerable to increasingly global economic forces beyond the Kremlin’s control. All signs are that all of these issues will only get worse for Russia. A failed state, especially one with imperial wet dreams and whose populations has been spoon-fed a steady diet of hyper-nationalist clap-trap, is a dangerous thing. What happened in Georgia last summer was just a prelude to what Russia may be increasingly capable of as its leadership becomes more and more desperate to keep the masses at bay. The more likely victims before Poland would be the Baltics; they’re more accessible for Russia, the West has doubts about the wisdom of defending them (as is clear in daily political discussions in the Western media), and the Russians also have a special hatred for the Baltics: Poles are a nuisance and despised by Moscow but we have a long history of self-rule and have a proud military heritage that has included defeating the Russians on occasion. We are adversaries, if annoying ones. The Baltics, however — they have no history (according to Russians) and they belong to Russia! The only reason they were able to escape is because of the evil West at a time when Russia was temporarily weak, but the Baltics (like Georgia and Ukraine) *belong* to Russia and if Estonians, Latvians and (to a lesser extent) Lithuanians continue to live on the Baltic shore, it is because Russia lets them. Mark my words; a weakening Russia (which all signs point towards) will become an increasingly *dangerous* Russia.
Tomek, I agree entirely.
A good similar example is the Argentinian military governments invasion of the Falkland Islands in 1982.
Most people thought there was no possibility of an Argentine invasion due to the severe internal problems, both economic and political, that Argentina had at the time. However, they were very very wrong.
The Argentinian military dictatorship invaded the Falklands precisely BECAUSE of its internal problems.
Another example is the Russo-Japanese war, where Tsar Nicholas II was facing severe internal revolutionary and economic problems, and in an attempt to provide “a short victorious war” to unify the state he started the disatrous war with Japan. His failure in this war was directly responsible for the 1905 revolution attempt, which was only really successful in Georgia (temporarily), and during which the Georgians (once again) showed their ability as guerilla fighters, causing severe losses to Tsarist army units and Cossacks in both eastern and western Georgia, before the severe numerical advantage of the Tsarist military finally took its toll.
The economic problems that Russia has make it far more likely to engage in acts of “imperial” agression
If Russia is a “failed state”, why should anyone be afraid of it? Just sit and wait till it collapses on its own. :-)
Because, you moron, failing states, particularly those with a tradition of imperial agression and genocide like Russia, tend to lash out and try and take as many people with them as they can before they collapse.
Then you should be PROUD of being the LAST victims of Russian imperial genocide… those on whose bones the Big Bad Bear finally choked… :-))
Very true. As a Georgian, I’m proud for my country and the president to having helped Russia to commit suicide. Your drunkard nation has a couple of years of miserable life left.
So does yours.
Okay… let’s meet in a couple of years and see who was right, my future SOBER compatriot! Start learning in advance: “Zakavkazskiy federalnyi okrug rossiyskoy federatsii”.
Lets see Eugene, the Georgians have survived the following empires:
The Hittites
Alexander & the Macedonians
The Romans
The Persians
The Byzantines
The Mongols
The Ottomans
Imperial Russia
Soviet Russia
I think they can outlast your pathetic KGB mafia state.
They will surely outlast Pindostan whose fat ass they are now licking with such relish!
Oh Eugine, such slavic wit.
Just because you dream about licking mens arses does not mean eberyone else does Eugene.
Though I guess that sort of behaviour goes with a name like Eugene.
Don’t have any doubt, it´s going to happen sooner than you think. The war with Georgia only helped Russia to get on its way towards collapse.
@”As for the Georgian kids not throwing rocks at tanks, seems kind of smart to me.”
The Chechen tactics they employed in 1994-95 (check out the use of unarmed civilians):
In Chechnya, accusations abound that operations were run against the population and the leadership by both the Russians and Chechens. Here we are not talking simply about the overt use of leaflets and loudspeakers, although the Russian army and air force have used both in the conflict, but also the covert use of psychological pressure through disinformation. The start of the invasion, in fact, had a distinct PSYOP aspect as the Russian side employed leaflets, loudspeakers (to relay an appeal to the population to lay down their weapons and not provoke the Russian force), and radio interference in Grozny. Simutaneously, useless talks were held in Vladikavkaz to gain time and intimidate the Chechens. The Chechens, on the other hand, used human road blocks, the protests of women, threats ranging from the possession of nuclear weapons to the unleashing of Islamic fundamentalists not controlled by Dudayev, and international pressure from organizations such as the Congress of the Peoples of the Caucasus (who threatened to turn the whole region into a raging inferno). The Chechen intent was to damage the morale of the Russian soldier and political leadership, and mobilize Russian public opinion against the intervention.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1995/chechpt2.htm
Despite forecasts of a quick victory, Russian troops made slow progress in advancing on Grozny, held up by unarmed civilian protesters as well as by Chechen troops and a lack of supplies and seasoned soldiers. The Chechen forces are made up of the National Guard and other regular army units, including many soldiers with Afghan war experience; the volunteer militia, subject also to central command and discipline, in which a great proportion of able-bodied Chechen males participate, some on a part-time basis; and “the avengers,” individuals or small groups, whose relatives have been killed, and who, acting on their own, seek blood vengeance in accord with Chechen custom. The Chechens’ weapons, which include some artillery and armor and plentiful supplies of sophisticated anti-tank weapons, Kalashnikov automatic rifles, ammunition, and grenades, are Russian in origin. They were handed over to the Chechens in 1991, seized during raids on Russian arms depots in 1992, or bought at various times from corrupt Russian officers and other arms dealers. The Chechens lack American Stingers or equivalent Russian anti-aircraft weapons; this leaves them vulnerable to Russian helicopter gunships.
http://www.newsbee.net/moscow/chhistory.html
That’s in a total war zone. But now what the Czech (and Slovak) patriots did while their army put no resistance:
Of course several dozen civilians were shot dead or crushed by vehicles, but their moral and propaganda victory was absolute.
Well Robert, lots of Chechen (and in the August war) Georgian civillians died, or were uprooted.
The problem is that moral victories look good in the history books, but they are not so good when you are the one that has to suffer.
The Chechen use of civillian protests is interesting, note that the Georgians did the same, large numbers of Georgian civillians protested outside Russian checkpoints in Poti and Gori.
Chechen Freedom Square protest in 1995:
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/63/080.html
Chechens should thank Allah for not living in America, otherwise they would be exterminated to the last man or put into reservations back in the 19th century, the way Native Americans were. :-(
You mean like the Russians did to the Chechens, Kalmyks, Tartars etc. in the mid-20th century when they deported them en masse hundreds of km from their homelands, allowing hundres of thousands (some estimates say millions) to die along the way? American school children today learn about the wrongs committed against the Indians and American bookstores are filled with books describing those events; do Russian school children learn about the millions of non-Russians deported and murdered by both Tsars and Commissars? Of course they don’t they aren’t even taught about the crimes against Russians, much less non-Russians. Silly me.
The deportations took place during the WWII because the nations mentioned by you collaborated en masse with the Nazi invaders. Roosewelt did the same with Americans of Japanese origin after Pearl Harbor.
No Mr Eugenics, 1/3 of the Japanese Americans did not die (very few deaths) and actually only a part of them were interned (only ~1,500 out of over 150,000 in Hawaii for example). They were later paid reparations and this affair is now a source of national shame because of “race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership” (the wording by the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians).
The Chechens did not collaborate more than the Russians (hundreds of thousands of them, including tens of thousands in the SS and Polizei, 2 Russian Waffen-SS divisions and so on) but curiously despite this the Soviets did not deport all Russians from Russia (dissolved and erased from history books) to Kazakhstan and Siberia.
Tomek, there were wholesale deportations of the Chechens and others in the Tsarist times too (also with massive deaths).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhajir_(Caucasus)
“Chechens should thank Allah for not living in America, otherwise they would be exterminated to the last man or put into reservations back in the 19th century, the way Native Americans were. :-(”
In your ignorance/stupidity you forgot they were indeed deported to “the last man” (actually a handful fled to the mountains, the last of them one died in combat with the KGB in 1976 at the age of 70).
There are actually some Chechens living in America (political asylum), most notably http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khassan_Baiev and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyas_Akhmadov (and no, they are not being “exterminated” there).
“From Russia with love”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ilyas_Akhmadov&diff=254989047&oldid=241029945