EDITORIAL: Barbaric Russian Cowards on the Rampage in Georgia

EDITORIAL

Barbaric Russian Cowards on the Rampage in Georgia

Human Rights Watch has released what looks to be the definitive report on the use of cluster munitions by Russian forces in their August 2008 invasion of Georgia.  It concludes that Russia carpet-bombed the Georgian city of Variani twice and hit the city of Gori once, using cluster weapons all three times and in total killing 12 Georgian civilians while wounding 38.  For its part, Georgia killed only four civilians and wounded just eight  using cluster bombs — one third the Russian totals.

HRW’s investigation discovered remnants of Russian cluster munitions in or near nine different Georgian villages, meaning that the casualty tally could well be higher than HRW was able to conclusively document.

Let’s be clear:  “Russia definitely violated international humanitarian law with its use of cluster munitions.”  Those aren’t our words, they’re the words of HRW researcher Bonnie Docherty, author of the report.  Russia still denies even using the weapons, much less killing any civilians.  Georgia, at least, admits using them, though it claims only military targets were selected.

The use of cluster weapons by Russian and Georgia would not be comparable even if the casualities they inflicted were the same.  Georgia does not pretend to membership in world leadership organizations like the UN Security Counsel or the G-8.  Russia does, and therefore Russia must actually show leadership if it wants the respect that comes with it.  It doesn’t show that leadership.  Moreover, Russia is an enormous country with a vastly stronger military, and it was Russia that crossed the border of Georgia proper.  Georgian forces never set foot in Russia proper.  Given this, it’s perfectly predictable for Georgia to use any means at its disposal to defend its territory from unprovoked invasion.  Any other civilized country would have used cluster bombs if they were the only weapon left in its arsenal.  Russia’s use of the weapons, by contrast, was entirely gratutious.

But the fact that Russia killed three times more civilians with those weapons than Georgia did is definitive.  It bespeaks the barbaric attitude of the Kremlin that we have so often documented here on this blog, and it cries out for international sanctons.  Already, there are rumors of a second Russian assault on Georgia this summer, and Russia also eyes Ukraine and other former Russian slave states in post-Soviet space. If the world does not send Russia a clear message that this barbaric conduct will not be tolerated, it will be repeated. If it is repeated, next time far more civilians will perish.

It’s as simple as that.

40 responses to “EDITORIAL: Barbaric Russian Cowards on the Rampage in Georgia

  1. The August 2008 war between Russia and Georgia is over. Georgia lost. Deal with it and move on already. The rest of the world already has.

    The mentally unbalanced US-installed lunatic in charge of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, will never impose his insane rule over the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

    The more Saakashvili thinks about the humiliating defeat of his “professional American-trained army” at the hands of 18-year-old Russian conscripts the more unhinged he becomes. But if he wants to mix it up with Mother Russia again then by all means let him go right ahead. Russia will only hand him his ass on a silver platter yet again, and he can then kiss his NATO/EU fantasies goodbye forever, as the Euros have made it abundantly clear that they are not interested in starting World War III with Russia in the Caucuses.

    Here’s a hint for the US: Before you place all your bets on a single horse it is helpful to first make sure that horse is firing on all four of his cylinders (upstairs I mean)

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    Thanks for admitting how devastating this post is by trying to change the subject!

    The world had indeed moved on, condemning Russian aggression and refusing to recognize Ossetia. Even China did so! And now we have proof of Russian violations of international law and murders of civilians. That’s history. Get used to it, you’ll be living with it for a long, long time.

    By the way, if Georgia’s goal in the war was to make Russia a pariah, it won. If its goal was to keep Saakashvili in power, it won. If Russia was trying to win international respect, it lost. If it wanted Saaskashvili out, it lost. And who’s to say those weren’t the goals? Did Saakashvili think he could defeat Russia on the military battlefield? No, of course not. On the political one? Yes, and he did so brilliantly.

  2. ‘Misha’, you are nothing but a mindless illogical internet Putler-goon propagandist for your KGB bosses. Who do you think you are fooling here? How much do they pay you? What country are you now living in?
    R.D.

  3. Misha, get your facts right.
    The US was training those troops who served in Iraq in COIN warfare (COunter INsurgency)
    They had provided no training for the tank troops, artillery, air force etc.
    The majority of the Georgian military were conscripts too, trained and equipped with the same equipment as the Russians. BMP’s, BTR’s, T-72’s, SA-11’s, AK’s, RPG’s etc.
    Despite the massive supplies of military equipment to the separatists the Georgian military was able to rout them in just 4 hours of fighting, while holding out the massively superior numbers of Russian troops for 3 days.
    The simple fact is that the raping, looting, and murdering vermin of the Russian army were unable to capture Tskhinvali until the Georgians chose to withdraw.
    In addition the Russians lost 3 times as many aircraft as the Georgians, and according to the “Committee of Russian Soldiers mothers” the official Russian government statement of losses has been reduced by a factor of at least 10.
    They claim over 4000 casualties (KIA & WIA) were sustained.
    Once again Russia has simply proven that it can only win through massive superiority in numbers, and against a properly equipped foe, you “glorious” army would collapse very quickly.
    I see that you have no understanding of the crimes that Russia has comitted in places like Georgia over the last 200 years, and I pity you your stupidity and ignorance.
    If you (russian scum) had treated Georgians, Ukrainians, Fins etc with respect you would have found them loyal friends, as it is your nation is reviled throughout the civilised world.

  4. Despite the massive supplies of military equipment to the separatists the Georgian military was able to rout them in just 4 hours of fighting, while holding out the massively superior numbers of Russian troops for 3 days.

    No one disputes that Russia’s army is much much larger than Georgia’s (in much the same way that the U.S. army was infinitely larger than Saddam’s army in Iraq or the Taliban’s army in Afghanistan). But your facts are simply wrong. Russia did not deploy its “whole army” in the Georgia conflict of August, 2008. Rather Russia deployed only selected elements of Russia’s 58th Army in Russia’s North Caucuses military district–only those elements that were “ready to roll” as it were. Georgian forces numerically outnumbered Russian forces at every stage of the campaign (which I should point out still did not stop Russia from achieving a decisive military victory).

    Russia’s response to Georgian aggression against South Ossetia and Abkhazia was anything but “massive.” If you want “massive” we do massive. But Russia did not make anything like a “massive” response against Georgian aggression (just enough troops to do the trick).

    I see that you have no understanding of the crimes that Russia has committed in places like Georgia over the last 200 years, and I pity you your stupidity and ignorance.

    Stupidity and ignorance? Well you ought to know, since you wrote the book on stupidity and ignorance.

    Yes, it’s true, the “wild Caucuses people” of Georgia (and the other Caucuses regions) have been a part of old Czarist Russia since before the U.S. Declaration of Independence was signed. But if you want to turn the clock back a whole 200 years and talk about “crimes,” I would suggest that a good starting point would be the U.S. genocide against the Indian Nations, not to mention the legalized slavery of African Americans, both of which were very much in vogue during the historical period you refer to.

    Russia does not begrudge Georgia its independence. What Russia objects to is the transformation of Georgia (and other post-Soviet countries) into Giant NATO military and missile bases, aimed against Russia.

    Now let’s see… Why would Russia object to that? Well, apart from the obvious reasons, the U.S. did promise to Russia that NATO would not expand “one inch” if Russia but agreed to ‘tear down the wall’ and allow Germany to reunify.

    So where are those American promises now? And still you want Russia to push plastic “reset” buttons and sign new agreements with you?

    So what does “reset” mean, anyway? That you will at long last honor your previous commitments to Russia and pull out of Poland, CZ Republic, Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania (and all of this is not even to start mentioning the historical parts of Russian territory proper, such as Ukraine and Georgia, which you are now lusting after, with your apparently insatiable appetite).

    Hmm. You know it’s really really hard for me to make a response to your clever anti-Russian posts.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    “No one disputes that Russia’s army is much much larger than Georgia’s (in much the same way that the U.S. army was infinitely larger than Saddam’s army in Iraq or the Taliban’s army in Afghanistan).”

    Misha, you must stop lying and document your factual claims with links or you will simply be banned from commenting on this blog. This is your last warning.

    The army of Iraq was one of the 20 largest armies on the planet when the US attacked, and the US projected its force across an ocean. Georgia’s army was totally insignificant and right next door to Russia. For you to suggest that Iraq and Georgia are remotely comparable in terms of military strength is pure hogwash and we will not tolerate such outrageous unsourced lies. Iraq is a nation of TWENTY FIVE MILLION. Georgia is a nation of FIVE million. The ratio of population between the US and Iraq was 12:1 but the ratio between Russia and Georgia was 30:1. Iraq had and used chemical weapons and had a long history of both genocide and war with mighty Iran. Georgia had no such history.

    Moreover, you are also lying when you claim no one disputes it. In fact, Russians are proud of their “victory” over Georgia as if it somehow depended on skill or valor. It didn’t

    It’s “really hard” for you to say ANYTHING at ANY TIME that is anything but idiotic and dishonest. Simply put, you’re filth.

    • Actually it depended on “skill or valor” of Yamadayev who rescued them at the time of their crisis.

      Russia soon paid him back “well”, of course. Every “Hero of Russia” should remember this – they’re all completely disposable and their stupid medals and titles mean nothing in the real world.

    • Misha, the entire 58th Army was used to invade Georgia, and Russian media made great mention of the fact.
      Aslo not that far from deploying conscripts, the 58th Army is Russia’s only full time professional army group at this stage, and this was also made much of by the Russian ministry of “Defence”

      The Russian forces outnumbered in combat manpower the Georgians by a large margin on the 1st day about 4-1 around Tskhinvali, and even more in terms of force multipliers such as tanks, artillery, naval forces, and aviation.

      The Georgians had about 4000 regulars in South Ossetia, who were facing 11,000 men of the 58th, and about 3000 SO regulars and 15,000 SO militia. which makes a total of 4000 V 28,000. With the aforementioned material superiority of the Russians in military equipment.

      It becomes even worse for the Georgians when you factor in the Russian & Abkhazian invasion of west Georgia (which was unprovoked and totally illegal) by a further 7000 Russian troops including Marines & Paratroopers and up to 45,0o0 Abkhaz separatists against 5 to 7000 Georgians.

      As for “wild caucasus people of Georgia”, they were civilised millenia before the Russians stopped wearing animal skins and burning their children alive in sacrifices.

      Now in the 19thC, there were several Russian genocides far worse than anything done by the US to the native americans.

      The Circassian genocide, the Chechen genocide, the genocides in Siberia, the expulsion of the moslem Abkhaz & Meshkian turks from the Caucasus, the attempted genocide against the Svans in Georgia, the pogroms against the Jews.

      Once again you show your all too typical Russian ignorance.

    • Oh, another thing Misha.
      Since you insist on showing your stupidity and ignorance, I must correct you once again.
      The US declaration of independance was signed in 1776.
      Russia invaded and annexed eastern Georgia in 1801, invaded and annexed western Georgia in 1810, and faced repeated rebellions and uprisings in both areas for most of the 19th century.
      Once again, get your facts right, you ignorant git.

  5. redRat - Andrew

    “If you (russian scum) had treated Georgians, Ukrainians, Fins etc with respect you would have found them loyal friends, as it is your nation is reviled throughout the civilised world.”

    I am afraid this concept is beyond the perception horizon of a so called “patriotic Russian”.

    Their “thinking” is very limited, like that of praying mantis.

    How can you ask them to treat with respect someone the very existence of who is often regarded by them as a fiction, misunderstanding or a pity mistake to be fixed.

  6. Gori was hit AFTER the Georgian forces left the city and the Gori military base.

    Among the casualties were several foreign journalists (one of them was killed) as they bombed the press center.

  7. Wars have a way of being fought (in the present tense) and then being won and lost (in the past tense).

    As I started my original post in here, Russia won and Georgia lost. That has consequences and effects (in the future tense). Or do you dispute that Russia won?

    I am not interested in reminiscing with all the arm-chair warriors about “what could have been” or “what might have been” (if only history turned out differently than it actually did).

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:

    By your ridiculous logic, Russians need to forget about World War II, and about Shamil Basayev and Beslan and Dubrovka. Civilized people view history as being important, only neo-Soviet apes like you are afraid to discuss it.

    Instead I would suggest that we debate about World War II (let’s say if the Nazi’s got the bomb before the US did), or, for that matter, the US Civil War (if the South had the bomb).

    Russia won. Georgia Lost. Get over it already. Move on already.

    • You wish.

    • But yeah, Russia “got over it already, moved on” – no rebuilding in South Ossetia. Null, zero – not a single man at work now, only a (literally) handful of houses restored according to the so-called Russian-citizien “authorities”.

      While in the meantime, Gori is being rebuilt alright (if not restored already).

    • “As I started my original post in here, Russia won and Georgia lost.”

      – I’m sorry but the fact that- I’m sorry but the fact that the big can invade and occupy it’s tiny neighbours land and build military bases there does not mean it has “won”.
      Russia has shown it’s true face to every civilised country in the world. Did it end with the Hitlers occupation of Poland or France? It will not end here. CHANGE OR YOU WILL REGRET IT! You are on a very dangerous path for you and for the rest of us too. the big can invade and occupy it’s tiny neighbours land and build military bases there does not mean it has “won”.
      Russia has shown it’s true face to every civilised country in the world. Did it end with the Hitlers occupation of Poland or France? It will not end here. CHANGE OR YOU WILL REGRET IT! You are on a very dangerous path for you and for the rest of us too.

  8. From the report itself:

    Many witnesses said Georgian troops or vehicles, the most likely cluster munition targets, were not in the immediate area at the time of the strikes, and in no case did Human Rights Watch find evidence of enemy units at the site of the attack. (…) The main command center for the Georgian military operation in South Ossetia was located in Gori. Witnesses, however, reported no military forces on the square when it was attacked.[84] The Dutch report corroborated this testimony and stated that the Georgian military had fled Gori by August 12.[85]
    http://www.hrw.org/en/node/82157/section/6

    Of course it was known from day 1 (everyone knew about the Georgian retreat before the attack, even watching it on TV), but it’s important thing here and you forgot to remind about this.

    In short: They used cluster bomb against only civilians and NOT soldiers (including killing and injuring several neutral foreigners).

    Footage from Jeroen Akkermans (injured) and Stan Storimans (killed) in Gori, 12th august 2008:

    • Sorry, I meant the footage is OF them and the attack on the press center (by the Greek TV crew – their driver was hit).

  9. Misha Moscal is so proud of the fact that his Sino-Mongolian, RaSSiyan Gengis Khan’s bloodline extraction was able to invade a relatively modern and civilized Western Country with a democratic core. Georgia a past victim, tiny, remote and weakened. Kremlin in Moscow getting away with even more “Ethnic Cleansing” did wake up the Eurocrats and cause Moscals to partially withdraw from their prize. Imagine Nato invading Transdniestr or Talinan or some other previously “ethnically cleansed” sino-mongolian base camp. Moscali screamed loud when the election in Moldova was challenged by the people, fearing EU and NATO alliance. The reason that these areas are not annexed by NATO is because they will want it themselves anyway. Just to avoid Big Brother and Mama RaSSiya’s cruel cultural castration. Enjoy the first Monument in the World to Anema, a Genuine Rooskie First from Rashia with Love.
    http://englishrussia.com/?p=2551

  10. From HRW:

    Human Rights Watch found that Russian forces fired many of their cluster munitions into populated areas of Georgia. On August 8 and 12, 2008, Russian submunitions landed in neighborhoods in the town of Variani, killing three civilians and wounding sixteen, ranging in age from eight years to seventy. Among them was 13-year-old boy, Beka Giorgishvili, who went to a friend’s house to say goodbye before his family fled town. An explosion went off as he was helping pump up his friend’s new bike tire. Beka lost part of his skull and suffered brain damage; shrapnel remains lodged in his head.

    Russian cluster munitions killed an additional nine civilians and injured thirty in strikes on Gori city and Ruisi on August 12. The Gori attack hit the main square of the city as a crowd of locals and journalists was gathering. The Ruisi attack hit two ends of the town, not only causing civilian casualties but also leaving duds with a 35 percent failure rate in at least one area being cleared.

    Despite the evidence from Human Rights Watch, the Dutch government investigation, and clearance organizations, Russia has repeatedly denied using cluster munitions “in the area of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict.”

    Russia, which deployed the weapons in circumstances in which they were incapable of distinguishing between civilian and military objects, violated international humanitarian law with its use of cluster munitions. Its attacks in or near villages, towns, and one city were inherently indiscriminate and thus unlawful. They were also likely disproportionate. The lack of evidence of Georgian troops in the vicinity of Russian strikes at the time they occurred combined with the foreseeable civilian harm supports such a presumption in this case.

  11. RL:

    Not “killing 12 Georgian civilians”, but killing at least 11 Georgian civilians and 1 Dutch civilian.

  12. Chechen rebel website Kavkazcenter:
    “Russians are ready to invade Georgia again”

    http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2009/04/19/65155.shtml

    Let´s recall,that last may the chechen rebel intelligence wing predicted,that russia will invade Georgia in August.Georgians should take the chechen sources serious again.
    btw,don´t let you provoke by some FSB-agents in this blog. We all know,that the georgian army defeated the russian invaders last August. 200 georgian soldiers and policemen were killed,while surviving russian soldiers stated,that 5000 russian and ossetian invaders were killed in the first three days of heavy georgian artillery fire.Why should these russian soldiers lying?

  13. Funny, that Misha never answered LR’s question: by which measure Russia won and Georgia lost? Saakashvili is still president, Tbilisi, Poti and even Gori are under Georgian control; South Osetia is ruled by the same money-appropriating thugs as before who (just like Kadyrov and other North Caucasus dons have very little regard for Moscow).

    And I am not even touching on political consequences – where even Lukashenko weaseled out from recognizing Abkhazia and SO independence despite billions in bribe aid money

    So sure, we can move on – as long as Unkneeling Russians stop spouting delusional theories that Russia won.

  14. Oh yes – this priceless myth:

    U.S. did promise to Russia that NATO would not expand “one inch” if Russia but agreed to ‘tear down the wall’ and allow Germany to reunify.

    Imagine Reagan making his famous speech “Tear down this wall, Mr Gorbachev, and I promise that NATO would not expand one inch”. Funny… in psychiatric kind of way!

    Delusional Russians still believe that Russia allowed Germany to reunify, allowed Warsaw Pact countries to leave, allowed Baltic countries not to join Commonwealth of Independent States, and while we are at it, allowed US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

    By the way, I disagree with LR that Misha is lying, and of course I have no way to know whether is paid to write here or not. I think he (as well as “I am Russian” and other Putler piglets) is genuinely delusional about Russia’s stand in the world. The problem with this delusion comes when “Mishas” understand that “Real Fellas” whose boots they were licking for so long, don’t give a hoot about them (or about Nashi, or about Young Guard, or dozen other boot-licking organizations). Such disillusionment has been a cause of so many riots in Russian history!

  15. Hello Mischa,

    Much has been said, but I shall add a couple of points.

    The Russian Army had collected and sat in that region for months and the purpose was there for all to see. With all that time, I doubt the units would have consisted of badly trained, lightly armed 18 year old conscripts hastily moved to Georgian territory and quickly put into action.

    The Russian Navy suffered losses at the hands of the Georgian Coast Guard. The Russian Air Force also suffered losses. The use of all 3 components of a nation’s armed forces reveals a full invasion, not just several elements of one.

    Saakashvili, humiliated as Georgia was, is still in power and leading a country that is weathering the financial crisis very well. How is Russia doing financially and how secure is the tenure of its leaders?

    With Russia’s failure in invading Georgia and removing Saakashvili, the danger is in future battles that Russia may face not only Georgia, but also the armies of the Ukraine, Poland, Balkan states, and any other neighboring nation willing to join the action.

    Then what will Russia do? Surrender I think.

    The US does not have to put bets on any nation. All they have to do is let Russia and its leaders blunder in their own back yard, as they never cease to do, and offer the aggrieved some monetary and military assistance. You should wish some sanity on your own leaders.

    Russia is bringing Russia to its knees. That is the lesson of history and that is the lesson that its citizens are always to quick to ignore and move on from.

    Gary Marshall

  16. Hello Mischa,

    You mention US aggression against the American Indian tribes and the enslavement of Africans in certain US states.

    You see, people and nations do learn from their mistakes. The enslavement of blacks ended over 150 years ago and the Indian tribes enjoy the rights of full US citizens and have been compensated for past injuries, though not sufficiently by any means. The President of the US can trace his heritage to the African continent with one generation.

    Russia just continues to blunder along behaving as if it were 200 years ago, as if nothing changed.

    If the Ukraine and Georgia are demanding entry into NATO, then one must wonder why. Why is it that these former Soviet states are clamouring for membership?

    Because Russia has resurrected the specter of the former Soviet state and all its nefarious controls. It takes 2 sides to honour an agreement. If one should neglect it, is it any wonder that the other should as well.

    Gary Marshall

  17. Misha,

    You have succeeded in taking two very poor and unstable geographical areas. I fail to see any benefit to owning them. I do hope that the people in those areas see some material improvement in their sorry lives, but I sincerely doubt that they will. I can only imagine that 10 years hence the people of Abkhazia and North Ossetia will still be living in Khrushovkas and planting gardens behind their apartments. Unfortunately, they do not know the choices that they have made have doomed them to Russian imposed poverty. Meanwhile, continue to build billboards with heroic Russian images and feed them a steady diet of anti-western propaganda. A very unfortunate situation. At least, Georgia is looking westward for improvement in their lives. Something they may someday realize.

    • Well, I guess there are at least three benefits in taking those two areas: (1) getting closer physically to controlling hydrocarbon flows to Europe; (2) two perfect bases on “this” side of mountain range to launch a Blitzkrieg attack on Georgia (see also p.1); (3) New naval base in Abkhazia to move your warships to, if Ukrainians actually do evict them in few years from Sevastopol. Aside from that – obviously no benefits, sooner the opposite. That illustrates well what Putin Russia’s true attitudes and intentions are.

  18. ONCE AGAIN! La Russophobe is nearly A SINGLE FORCE that is honest and brave enough to come out and face the true Nazi’s of this age. I’m NO enemy of Russia. BUT RUSSIA NEEDS TO CHANGE RIGHT NOW! Or it will throw the world into a dark age. I am VERY thankful to La Russophobe for being a true Pioneer about this. FOR MANY IT IS FAR TOO DIFFICULT TO REALISE AND SAY THE TRUTH. As it was during the years and years of Hitlers leadership. It’s far too comforting to say that it’s all Saakashvili’s fault or Georgia’s fault. Georgians made Russia invade itself. It’s a STUPID AND OUTRAGEOUS LIE!

    As for South Ossetia. IT IS NOT EVEN THE TRUE NAME OF THAT TERRITORY BUT IT WAS RENAMED FROM “Samachablo”

    As the “North Ossetia” in the Russian Fed. was renamed to that from it’s original name “ALANIYA”

    Not to mention the HUUUUGE packs of mountains between them. With no any real pass, except for a Roski tunnel (made famous by Russia’s 58th army)

    And I’m just barely reminding this->

    35.000 killed in Abkhazia 300.000 refugees.

    15.000 killed in “South Ossetia” -> Now 150.000 refugees

    Since 1993 & 1994 to date.

    Oh and this too. (in Russian)

    http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-152958

  19. Russia moves troops closer to Georgia’s capital
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_georgia_russian_troops

    “It will be Russia,” said a Russian army lieutenant as the Ossetian soldiers under his command nodded.

  20. Миша, нафиг ты перед ними распыляешся? Они видят только то, что хотят видить. Камменты LR вообще аддекватностью не отлечаются “Ты им про Фому, они тебе про Ерёму”.
    Даже штаты признали, что Сцакашвили был не прав, но ведь для “ТруЪ Руссофоба” это не важно, раз Русские -значит виновны)))

  21. i am french, and i am very sensitive to georgia’s dramatic situation since the russian aggression last year! i hate the russian army! i hate medvedev, this president is a hard-liner, and a true fascist! georgia has the right to become a member of nato!
    the russians are not trustworthy!
    i will never forgive the brutal invasion of georgia,ethnic cleansing , and the annexion of south ossetia and abkhazia .
    those methods remind world war two, with medvedev’s russia in the role of germany 1938!
    saakashvili is the legitimate president of georgia, medvedev and lavrov have no right to say he must go away!
    now, it’s frigtening:these russian ultranationalists are seeking for an opportunity to occupy georgia entirely…god save georgia!
    i have a dream :croatia, serbia and georgia into the european family !
    peace for georgia!
    friendly greetings from france

  22. I’m not gonna comment most of arguments said before because they’re just too m… ignorant, but I have to point out that it is funny to see people commenting situation on the other side of the planet without any kind of comprehension of what’s goin’ on with their own country. Especially I like matching modest USA and glorious vicious Iraq

    • So your “point” (other than the one on top of your pea-brained skull) is that since Americans abused the Native Americans and the African Americans they had no right to question Nazi extermination camps or to fight to close them, right?

      • It wasn’t exactly my point (cause I don’t mix up Nazi, barbarians, colonial wars and modern political situation) but I can take it aswell. My point was mostly about Iraq situation.
        Also I think that anybody can question something if he understands even a little bit of what’s going on. For example, I was in Georgia before war and after, I was in Iraq, I was in USA (can’t say anything bad of the country itself except it’s kinda boring) and I live in Russia. I believe that big words which I’ve read in this article must have somthing besides “national-TV-watching” (and veeery uneducated) opinioin.
        Also I’d be very sorry for those cluster bombs but killed 12 Georgian civillians if Georgians were sorry for approximately 1500 Ossetians killed by a “mere” artillery fire. Most of them were russian citizens, by the way. Moreover, I would be sorry for cluster bombs if Chechens were sorry for something around 30 000 ethnic russian civilians killed by small firearms in the First Chechen War. And even more stuff… I’m pretty much amazed by your black’n’white discrimination. Russia is big so it of course a bloody monster and Georgia is small so it of course proud highlanders standing against evil. Trust me wars do not begin becasue someone is “bad” they begin for reason and Russia hadn’t any kind of reason while Georgia had.

        • Moronicus, the official Russian toll of Ossetian civilian dead is 162, while the Georgians had the entire ethnically Georgian part of the civilian population of South Ossetia forcibly expelled from their homes by Russian and separatist troops during a wave of Russian led ethnic violence.
          As Memorial, HRW, and the COE reports all stated, there was and is no evidence of Georgian deliberate crimes against civilians by deliberately targeting them with artillery for instance, as HRW and Memorial pointed out, the targets of the Georgian artillery attacks were legitimate, but the weapons they used were illegal for the location of the target, in addition, HRW, Memorial, and the COE investigation all rubbished Russian claims of burning churches and targeting of civilians by the Georgians. There was and is however plenty of evidence of massive crimes against civilians by Russian and separatist troops, rapes, murders, deliberate executions, torture, burning of homes, expulsion of civilians, the list goes on.

          Russia had multiple reasons for starting a war with Georgia you cretin.
          1. They still want an Empire.
          2. They want to dominate the transit of oil and gas from central Asia and Azerbaijhan, and having Georgia outside their control makes this impossible.
          3. They wanted “revenge” for Kosovo, this was explicitly stated several times by Putin.

  23. >rapes, murders, deliberate executions, torture, burning of homes, expulsion of civilians, the list goes on.
    As we see you don’t know what’s a punishment in russian army for raping.
    >1. They still want an Empire.
    That is reeeealy funny. Nobody wants an Empire. Everybody wants money. Like USA in Iraq. This war is a sensless loss of money for Russia even if it would destroy Tbilisi and hang up Saakashvili.
    >2. They want to dominate the transit of oil and gas from central Asia and Azerbaijhan, and having Georgia outside their control makes this impossible.
    No comments. Try to look at the Caucasus map for once.
    >3. They wanted “revenge” for Kosovo, this was explicitly stated several times by Putin.
    You again trying to imply that such childish reasons lead people who rule the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world.
    >As Memorial, HRW, and the COE reports all stated, , there was and is no evidence of Georgian deliberate crimes against civilians by deliberately targeting them with artillery for instance,
    It looks like you do not read your sources: “According to an 18 August report by Human Rights Watch (HRW), at the start of the military conflict on 7 August 2008, Georgian military used indiscriminate and disproportionate force resulting in civilian deaths in South Ossetia. ”
    Also your double standards are amazing. Referring to pro-west organisation, calling a separatist any sandnigger who does not meet your requirements and “democratic heroes” other ones who met. You’re but a mere hypocrite. Never forget that I know who you are when you’re trying to argue me.
    >plenty of evidence
    Give me one approved evidence that a russian soldier did a war crime. Real video footage. Please. And I’ll give you a hundred of opposite footages

  24. By the way, there is a thousand footages on youtube covering American war crimes on Iraq which is of course a “misunderstanding” of rightious way of bringing “democracy” to the poor iraqi people

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