Russia and her “Allies”
We confess we were caught slightly off guard by a Reuters headline last weekend which read: “Russia and allies to create joint air defense.”
What have we missed, we wondered? Were we asleep at the switch? Who are these fiersome new allies whose powerful air forces will be contributing to a mighty new security ring over Russian skies?
We weren’t suprised to learn that Russia needed help to protect its skies, of course. RIA Novosti had just reported that 70% of Russia’s famous MiG-29 fighter gets are unable to get off the ground because of woefully inadequate maintenance, and Reuters had reported that one-third of all Russian attack aircraft are unsafe to fly.
But we had no idea that other nations had stepped forward to bolster Russia’s flagging position. Reuters obligingly gave us the list:
Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus and Tajikistan.
So that is it then. The jig is up! France, Germany, Italy, Great Britain and the United States are hopelessly outgunned and outmanned and will have to cede air supremacy to the devastating and rightly famous top gun fighter pilots from Uzbekistan.
Who do the Russians think they are fooling with this garbage? Surely, the only possible target for such a miasma of absurd lies would be the people of Russia.
But did they believe such absurd nonsense even in Soviet times?
Actually, believe it or not, there are still people who believe this. I have met them. And they do not live only in Russia, they live in Ukraine, and Moldova, and other former Soviet bloc countries.
Russians air defence complexes such as C-300 and C-400 TOR BUK are the best in the World. Our air craft are developed by Russian Federation logically for far perspective. 70% wear is not catastropha because Russians air force is excess now. And Russian governmant plans to decrease the number of aircraft. Decision to create joint air defense is very important for military and politics aims.
Talia, this shows that propaganda and nice words (‘joint air defense’) can have an effect beyond reality.
Come on “I am Russian”, I doubt the S-300 & S-400 will work very well when an F-117 fires an ARM and vapes the radar.
Besides, actual use of SAM’s against aircraft has repeatedly shown that aircraft win most of the time. All that will happen to the vaunted S-300 & S-400 sam sites will be subjected to a barrage of cruise missiles, HARM (anti radiation) missiles, and then when the control radars are gone, the launchers will be bombed back to the stone age. We have had a barrage of propaganda about Russian SAM’s all the way from the SA-2 to the current generation, and they never seem to work as well as advertised. There is a big difference between shooting a drone target in a controlled environment, and using a SAM in an actual combat environment, with all of the countermeasures and return fire and manouvering targets (Aircraft actually manouver much better than missiles).
The Russian military is a very delapidated mangy bear, lacking in just about everything but numbers (the only way it has ever won a war is through sheer weight of numbers).
For a good overview of the shambles see:
Another Russian officer abusing soldiers.
As brilliant Latynina notes, Russian news are always in future tense. Note that nothing happened yet… so, LR – you didn’t miss any news; just PR “news release”
It may very well turn out that all this “military block” business is nothing more than fiction, so typical for Putin Russia’s delusions of grandeur. Just another megalomaniac “castle in the sky” for internal consumption via state controlled media.
In fact, Belorussians have told that they are not going to fight anywhere outside Belarus itself, as their laws do not let them do so. Russians have demanded they do, because international agreements are above national laws. Belorussians have responded that it will not be Russians who will push them around and they themselves know better what they should and what they should not, and that the military agreement has not yet received final approval [so it as well may never come into force].
Read here in Russian:
I am just pleasantly surprised by Belorussian leadership demonstrating that it actually has more common sense than one might expect. For example, being (looking like) Russia’s biggest friend, they still refuse to recognize “independence” of Russian occupied South Ossetia and Abhazia. Maybe there is a potential for Western cooperation with Belarus and it becoming “normal” country in time.
I think the joint in ‘joint air defense’ refers to the ‘funny bone’.
When Russia has pared its military down as ‘I Am Russian’ desires, perhaps to nothing, it will then be the most fearsome power on the earth.
Andrew I like your little scenario there. But say, whatever happened to MAD? Until you can be assured that not even a single Russian warhead is able to reach American soil, you can take all of your F-117’s and use them for aerial tours of foreclosed properties in Phoenix. Might as well launch a few ARMs or HARM’s, why the hell not, get rid of some of that toxic mortgage debt.
By the way what good is technology if you have morons using it? Pentagon was laughing at Russian ships in the Carribbean, smirking that they probably wouldn’t even be able to make it out there. But guess what, they made it there and back, while a billion dollar super-duper USS Port Royal is sitting aground half-a-mile off the coast of Hawaii.
When Russia talks about having a military alliance with anybody, watch out. It is always ultimately just an excuse to station their troops in that country. Once that happens, it is the beginning of the end for that nations independence. The Russians and their secret police use any and every method to chip away at their opposition in that country until one day, everyone wakes up to find that both their foriegn and internal policies are being dictated from the kremlin, and to complain results in the gulag.
AKM, your being proud of Russian ships making it to the Caribbean says it all. Way to go! Maybe next time they’ll repeat Magellan’s achievement and circumnavigate the globe… oh wait, that was almost half a millennium ago…
And BTW, only an idiot would gloat over foreclosed properties in the US when in his beloved country the vast majority of the population is still cramped into prison-cell-sized apartments, if not into dreadful “kommunalki” and “baraki”. All that while their beloved leaders burn tons of money on senseless naval expeditions.
AKM, same goes for your Russian made crap.
ASSUMING no nukes (I doubt even Putin is mad enough to use them), my scenario is quite valid. BTW, the scenario is certainly valid against the systems that the Kremlin has sold to Iran.
Yes, a US ship runs aground. It happens. What about the Kursk, or the Russian sub that gassed its own crew during a test run due to crew incompetence (according to the Kremlin), or using a TU-22M Backfire for tactical recon while forgetting about Georgian SA-11 SAM systems? Russia leads the world in military stupidity, always has, always will.
From a Russian General:
One Russian’s views. Excerpts from a commentary published today by Yuriy Netkachev, general-lieutenant (two-stars) retired, military professor. Netkachev is a former commander of Russian forces in the Transcaucasus, former Commander of the 58th Army and former Commander of the 14th Army.
The opening observations stress that the Russian leadership and the General Staff underestimated the Georgians. He derided pre-operational military jokes about an invasion of Georgia being a “walk in the park.” His key points included the Russians failed to detect the improvements in the Georgian armed forces in the last four years and, more importantly, they failed to prevent them. He noted the outcome was foreordained: “the Saakashvili regime will be punished.” He asked at what price.
He noted that Russian exercise Kavkaz (Caucasus) 2008 was the 58th Army’s dress rehearsal for the intervention that took place over the weekend. He asks how are they performing and answers, “Not too well, unfortunately.” His argument proceeds by a series of questions, paraphrased below.
1. How come the Russians lost a strategic bomber and a Su-25 attack aircraft to Georgian air defenses in the first hours of fighting?
2. How come the deputy commander of the 58th Army was wounded on the first day of fighting? Netkachev asked further, “Why was General Khrulev operating within the troops’ combat formations? Where was the security force? And indeed was there one? Khrulev was accompanied in his vehicle by journalists. The TV guys were probably constantly calling people. Yet it is already clear that the Georgian special forces, trained as they are by US instructors, react to emissions from telephones and radio sets. Where is the principle of the secure command and control of troops? The army commander is directing thousands of people, does he have any time or need for journalists in an engagement?”
3. When and how did the Georgians get proficient at flying the Su-25 and at firing missile air defenses? Netkachev said he thought it obvious that they were helped by Ukrainian mercenaries.
4. How come Russian forces went to war half dressed, in tee shirts and without combat gear? He wrote that Russian military incompetence was broadcast around the world by Russian TV. He also criticized the Navy for hold anti-terror exercises with the Georgians instead of preparing for a proper military blockade.
He concluded that the Russian General Staff has failed to learn the lessons of the Chechen War.
Even some Russian news services were not impressed with the Russian military performance:
And the truth about the Russian draft.
Problems in Russia’s defense industry:
Andrew continues to extol odds and ends which names Georgian Army.
“How come the Russians lost a strategic bomber and a Su-25 attack aircraft to Georgian air defenses in the first hours of fighting?”. I answer you “a la guerre comme a la guerre”.
And I ask you: how many strategic bombers USA lost in KOSOVO?
“I am Russian”, the answer is NONE, the USA lost NO strategic bombers in Kosovo.
They lost one aircraft, an F-117 to a SAM, and an F-16 & AH-64 to engine failures.
Try again dickhead.
BTW “I am Russian”, did you note that is was a RUSSIAN general criticising the Russian conduct of the war?
More about Kosovo air war here.
As far as I know, USAF lost absolutely no strategic bombers from hostile fire (or friendly fire for that matter) since the early 1972 (including Desert Storm when the B-52s delivered almost half of all ordnance dropped in the war).
“He concluded that the Russian General Staff has failed to learn the lessons of the Chechen War.”
Actually the war was won for Russia by the two Chechen GRU battalions (the Yamadayevs’ made from the former rebels was the most visible) fighting in a mix of regular and irregular warfare, and I guess they did learn something.
The Air Force failed, regular land forces failed (huge number of mechanical failures, the very commander of the expeditional force shot by Georgians), Ossetians failed totally (routed by Georgians from the area of their capital in only few hours, later only followed the Russian columns to loot & burn), Navy didn’t do much at all.
What happened to the Chechen battalions since then? Pratically disbanded (purged and company-sized now), Yamadayevs on the run (one of the four brothers murdered in central Moscow, a retired Russian general was wounded in the shooting).
About using strategic bombers for recon – the Georgians used the world-standard small UAVs (from Israel).
Good post, seems that the “Vostok” & “Zapad” battalions received heavy losses, and that this is one reason why they have been effectively disbanded and the survivors reformed into 2 Rifle companies of the 42nd Motorised Rifle Division (This would require a reduction in numbers from 400 men to about 100 in each battalion, which can give us an idea of the real sort of losses the Russians were taking)
“When and how did the Georgians get proficient at flying the Su-25 and at firing missile air defenses?”
Gosh, that Russian general is as stupid as the colleague he criticizes.
“The first prototype made its maiden flight on 22 February 1975. After testing, the aircraft went into series production in 1978 at Tbilisi in the Soviet Republic of Georgia.”
I mean, obviously there was no time and no way for Georgians to learn anything about Su-25, right?
““I am Russian”, the answer is NONE, the USA lost NO strategic bombers in Kosovo.”
You are lies as usual. NATO lost at least 61 air-craft planes and at least one syrategic bombers which was received in Moskow.
Lets see “I am Russian”, as you would have seen from the links posted, Serbia CLAIMED many kills, but was only able to show wreckage from 1 F-117, and from the F-16 which had an engine failure. There were NO CAPTURED PILOTS, NO ADDITIONAL WRECKAGE, NO DEAD PILOTS BODIES, and when the Serbian authorities were challenged by reporters to produce evidence they withdrew their claims. The website you linked to shows ONE piece of evidence, that of the F-117.
You are the one spouting lies.
In addition, the status of all western military aircraft is avaliable under the relevant freedom of information acts. Unlike in your FSB mafia police state, it is very hard to cover up losses in the west. If the losses you claim had ocurred, there would have been public inquiries etc.
As usual you (and Russia) are full of BS.
Troops Killed: 0
Troops Wounded: 0
Aircraft Lost to SAM’s or AAA: 1 F-117
Mechanical Failure Crashes: 4(F-16, AV-8, and 2 Apaches)
For the first time in history a war without casualties. According to Serb sources NATO lost 48 aircraft, 16 helicopters and about 300 soldiers operating on secret missions inside Yugoslavia. Other sites talk about NATO losing as many as 350 aircraft and 500 soldiers. Although the number of sites speaking about hundreds of NATO aircraft lost is high, none can provide any proof other than pictures of 1 F-117 Nighthawk and 1 F-16 Falcon(the F-16 crash land in Yugoslavia after a mechanical failure).The US has absolutely no reason to lie about losses in Kosovo. Follow me for a second: After the US F-15 Eagle performed an excellent tour of duty in Kosovo, downing 6 Mig-29 Fulcrums, the F-22 Raptor was nearly canceled. The reason was that the F-15 has no challengers at this time so why waste money on the F-22. Now, if the F-15 would have taken some losses, the F-22 would have been given more money to become operational.
“Thank God I’m Not Russian” good post.
I know one of the Georgians who helped design the SU-25 in the 70’s.
I agree with your comment about the Russian general being stupid.
“Mechanical Failure Crashes: 4(F-16, AV-8, and 2 Apaches)”
It happend during a few weeks. Are your air-forces planes so trash?
Did you miss the part of the article where 70% of your Mig-29’s are unable to fly and have been grounded after a series of crashes? Lack of maintenance, lack of competent pilots, poorly designed equipment. Sounds more like your Russian jets are trash.
By the way over 1000 NATO aircraft were operating over Kosovo, that means a loss rate of 0.5% overall (5 Aircraft lost in total 1 to SAM, and 4 to mechanical failure). In 10 weeks NATO combat aircraft flew 38,000 missions, a loss rate of 0.013% in missions flown. This was in a period of 10 weeks.
Compare this with the between 4 to 12 (depending on sources) aircraft lost by the Russians in 4 days or so over Georgia.
In addition Serbian Generals have admitted that the claims they made were falsified in order to shore up morale at home.
Here is a pick of an Su-24 wreck in Georgia (one of the claims denied by the Russians)
And another set here
I am Russian,
I thought russians weren’t supposed to eat trash, wouldn’t that at least raise some eyebrows.
After all, canibalization is only allowed in countries of which russia has influence.
“In addition Serbian Generals have admitted that the claims they made were falsified in order to shore up morale at home”.
Serbian generals are ready to admitted any hell now because in other way you crush their country. Thank God Russia have enough weapons and allies to defend itself from democratic killers!
So Russia must support own army and conclude alliancies with allies. We have a serious success in the both ways!
“Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) member-states (Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan) hold a discussion of establishment a joint venture companies aiming to produce military equipment, said Nikolay Bordyuzha, CSTO Secretary General on February, 13 at the press conference in Moscow, reports a REGNUM correspondent. According to him, they work through “the question of establishment CSTO member-states joint ventures of production, utilization, repair of military equipments and armaments””.
If you think that cannibalization are allowed in Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and many other countries then you make a mistake. But make a a mistake is usual for tipically La Russophobe reader!
I am Russian, you make my point better than I can.
There are a new Russian ally in the Caucauses and Bleak sea region it is Turkey. Russia, Turkey, Armenia and Iran are creating a new organisaton – caucauses platform without USA and EU. Position of primer-minister Erdogan about NABUCCO is also sensible.
The problem was solved
Hurray for terrorism.
I am Russian, do you really think “The problem was solved?
You can obfuscate reality, but can you hide from the law of unintended consequences.
Good luck! Sucker.