EDITORIAL: Georgia, Dominating Russia


Georgia, Dominating Russia

Last week Georgia scored a series of three dominating victories over Russia, clearing showing how badly Georgia’s president has outfoxed and outfought the malignant little troll who prowls the parapets of the Kremlin.  We congratulate Mr. Saaskashvili on his brilliant and historic victories, which show the world the true extent of the Kremlin’s weakness and stupity — characteristics which the people of Russia seem to admire greatly, if public opinion polls in which they barbarically support Russia’s aggression are to be believed.

First, the International Court of Justice ruled overwhelming in Georgia’s favor in response to Georgia’s lawsuit against Russia over ethnic cleansing resulting from Russia’s recent barbaric military aggression against the tiny country.  The ICJ ordered Russia to “refrain from any act of racial discrimination” against ethnic Georgians, including “sponsoring, defending or supporting” discriminatory acts in areas occupied by Russian military forces since they invaded Georgia in August.

Then, Spain came out foursquare in favor of NATO membership for Georgia, and it will chair the EU starting in 2010. Foreign Minister Miguel Moratinos pledged that Spain would broaden ties with Georgia and use the full influence of the EU to accelerate NATO admission.

Finally, the European Union declared it would not resume discussion on partnership with Russia until it was satisfied of Russian compliance in the Georgia withdrawal treaty.

This is more conclusive evidence of the total failure of Vladimir Putin’s foreign policy.  Over and over again Russia has seen its policy in Georgia repudiated by a shocked and sickened civilized world, and yet the Kremlin has not changed that policy one iota, just as in Soviet times barrelling heedlessly down the same failed course while frenzidly hiding the whole sorry mess from the eyes of its citizens.

Putin must go. Russia’s future as a nation hangs in the balance.

30 responses to “EDITORIAL: Georgia, Dominating Russia

  1. Indeed, Saakashvili outwitted the KGB rat Putin

  2. Okay, send this wonder child a few nice greasy neckties to chew! :) By the way, Spain does not determine whether new member states are adopted to NATO or not – that is determined by a consensus of all member states, including Germany, France and Iceland – recently abandoned to her fate by fellow NATO and EU states when in trouble but rescued by a Russian loan.

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS: If he’s a necktie chewer, what does that make Putin, whom he has whipped? A dung chomper?

    Truly, your idiocy knows no bounds.

  3. Poor Island :)

  4. Eugene

    Since when has Iceland been an EU member ? As a European living in an EU member state I can assure you that it is not a member.

    Iceland wasn’t abandoned to her fate as you put it either. Why should Europeans with small deposit accounts lose their life savings to bail out a banking system of a country that had a profligate and irresponsible attitude to risk?

    Iceland didn’t have to turn to Russia either as it it’s first point of call, the IMF is there for that purpose.

  5. There is only one organization in the world where a sick state can borrow, the IMF, so USA/EU/NATO have no ground to lend to Iceland. $5 billion is peanuts for the IMF. The IMF has huge sums of money ready to be lent but only conditionally. If not how the loan could be repaid?

    1) Resources of the Fund available to members
    The IMF statute states: ( http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/aa/aa01.htm )

    (v) To give confidence to members by making the general resources of the Fund temporarily available to them under adequate safeguards, thus providing them with opportunity to correct maladjustments in their balance of payments without resorting to measures destructive of national or international prosperity.

    2) Resources of the Fund huge.
    The “IMF at a Glance” page states: ( http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/glance.htm )

    # Total Quotas: $352 billion

    # Loans outstanding (as of 5/31/08): $19.4 billion

    3) No loan without Condition
    The “IMF Conditionality” page states: ( http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/conditio.htm )

    When a country borrows from the IMF, its government makes commitments on economic and financial policies—a requirement known as conditionality. Conditionality is a way for the IMF to monitor that its loan is being used effectively in resolving the borrower’s economic difficulties

  6. Saying that Saaka has whipped anyone is a joke. He mounted a poorly planned, poorly-executed campaign that cost him his entire professional army. Everything that the US has paid for in the past 4-5 years has been lost, he is growing more unpopular every day in his home country. Operation Чистое Поле failed dramatically.

    Only the good will of european countries and the US is keeping this guy around. On a more positive note, no one really cares about him or his people in any case; the US simply needs an ally в Кавказе to pipe some oil around Russia and kill a russian or two at the same time.

    American contractors that worked in Georgia left saying that they wouldn’t trust those guys to make a burger, much less carry out a military operation. I would be more than happy to tell (with sources) about some of the pathetically stupid errors comitted by Georgian troops in this campaign… but the bottom line is that they were not ready and lost a good opportunity to embarass the Kremlin.


    Your comment is remarkable for its neo-Soviet obtuseness. The whole point is that Saakashvili has whipped Russia in courting “the good will of european countries and the U.S.” — Putin has made Russia hated and ridiculed by the world.

    You’re in classic neo-Soviet denial.

  7. La Russophobe –

    As someone who left the ussr, for a reason mind you, I can’t possibly be in denial… But that’s not the point I was making. I WAS trying to say that Saaka is not competent enough to conduct a military campaign OR a publicity campaign. International good will for him was a given – but a successful war in SO would have allowed european good will to actually have teeth! Since he failed, all that occurred was some blustering of european politicians on TV. And that’s it. No real sanctions, no reduced oil/gas purchases from russia, nothing like that at all. Saaka is simply not a figure anyone particularly wants to get behind internationally.

  8. I have to agree with Vadim. I’ve been speaking to a Georgian friend of mine who lives in Berlin on the subject. Even now, Russia is accused of violating the cease-fire, and still maintain full control over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The International “Court of Justice” is just an institution the offers moral and political support to Western puppets, and if this ruling is legitimate, chances are that it won’t amount to more than just more hot air coming from Western politicians. So Spain came out in favor of Georgia joining NATO, so what? I still don’t see any “victories” or “Georgia, Dominating Russia”. Just more politican whining.

  9. Vadim, are you trying to say that rome was built in a day, or that wars are won overnight. A low popularity rating means nothing unless he is about to run for reelection. Even then, his opponent is required to be more trustworthy. If you expect europe to have teeth, you are not a good student of history.

    Lincoln had one of the lowest approval ratings of any president in the history of the united states, if that gives you any perspective.

  10. TB, I understand that possession is 9/10ths of the law, but breaking and entering is a felony.

    I agree that the Internation Court of Justice is a joke, that is exactly the reason homeowners should be allowed to own shotguns.

  11. seanquixote ,
    I agree that the events of several weeks are not a complete measure of a person or a country. The trouble is that the Georgians have been scavenging droppings from the Czars, Soviets, and up to recently the Russians since 1801, when Georgian князи petitioned the russians to take them under the Czar’s protection. Alone amongst the christian caucasian nations they were unable to withstand the muslims on their own. This is a group of people where corruption is the way of life; they were a money pit for the USSR and now are a money pit for the USA – Georgia was one of the few places that were funded directly by the RSFSR, and not through regional sources like the other 14 rebuplics! Does anyone really think that the billion we are giving them for “reconstruction” will actually stick?!

    My only point is that it is unfortunate that we must associate with these people to have leverage against modern russia. During the cold war the US guaranteed the safety of her NATO allies. Bonn and West Berlin, London and Rome, an attach on those places was like an attack on New York – and would have been treated that way in a nuclear confrontation, MAD-style. The russians knew this. With Georgia in NATO (and that’s the only way to keep the russians out of Кавказ) – are Americans prepared to confront a nuclear power over Saaka and his Tbilisi????

  12. Vadim, If Georgia was a “moneypit”, why would Russia make a strategic decision to occupy this particular territory. It wouldn’t have anything to do with the oil pipelines would it, or control over the eastern bank of the Black Sea. Of course not.

    Russia has always acted on behalf of the benefit of humanity. They even deprived themselves of human resources for the sole purpose of giving more food to other countries or something.

    By the way, with Russia’s deteriorating weapon systems, along with American missile defense systems, Russia should really walk softly.

  13. On the weapons note, Russia has arguably the most advanced missile technology in the world. The Brahmos (India-Russia cooperation) missile and the Brahmos-2 are far faster than any American counterparts. The S-300 is the match of almost all American anti-air systems, and the S-400 goes beyond even those. The Sineva nuclear-capable submarine-launched missile is in active service and is capable of traveling 11k miles(or kilometers?), which makes it impossible for the US to detect launch. The Topol-M and it’s currently-broken submarine-launched Bulava are able to avoid defense systems by changing direction in flight, releasing diversions, etc. No country can defend itself from Russia’s missiles. It doesn’t have to walk softly.

    Georgia is really a moneypit, as Vadim pointed out. I’m not familiar with how it’s been in the past, but during the last three months they’ve lost most pieces of military weaponry given to them by the US and suffered $1billion in infrastructure damage. And what did it gain? Russia expanded it’s regional influence and is winning a pseudo-confrontation with the west.

    Spain coming out for Georgia is nothing. It’s one country out of 27. The heavyweights, Italy, France and Germany are firmly opposed to drastic action against Russia, so no such action must be taken.

    The international court doesn’t do much. If a country like Russia decides not to comply, nothing anyone can do about it. As Bolshevik said, it just tries to decide what’s right and modify world opinion in its direction.

    The not resuming discussion.. well, that’s nice. They’ll give in eventually, and Sarkozy and Merkel are already showing interest in resuming talks. They are for the most part content with Russia’s withdrawal. It’ll happen.

    Monsieur Russophobe, I find myself wondering how you would respond to the standard argument that for some reason the US gets to invade Iraq, but Russia doesn’t get to invade anyone. Especially considering that the US propped up Saddam Hussein in the first place.

  14. 2 seanquixote :
    Russia iccupied Georgia in the 19th century for the same reasons that any empire takes over a territory – to further its own ambition, and to encroach on another imperial neighbor, the Turks in this case. Imperialistic ambition is something the US has been engaged in truly for a century. These people have been doing it for nearly a millennium, back and forth.

    2 Anon :
    Since you are not familiar with the missile systems you speak about, do not attempt to discuss them. For your information, speed alone is not particularly relevant to a anti-ship missile’s performance. In fact, this relates to the overall strategy that the US uses vs. Russia, starting from the Cold War. US missiles are significantly lighter, smaller, and carried by smaller craft – a Harpoon is also much cheaper than the BrahMos, or the Базальт SS-N-2X series missiles. American strategy was to use carrier groups and silent attack subs for anti-ship work. Russian strategy was to counter these systems with large amounts of heavy and fast missiles launched from heavy surface ships – like Киров class Peter the Great, Слава, , Москва, etc. Both approaches have their merits, it is stupid to bash one without taking into account the weakness of the other.

    With that being said, the S-300 is a system comparable to the PAC-2 Patriot. The S-400 is a more modern system that is still PROTOTYPED!!! The russians DO NOT have this working yet, all units are still operated by CIVILIAN factory contractors! For now, any statement to the contrary are Kremlin bulls#it. With that in mind, the european/US MEADS system (utilizing the PAC-3 missile w/ new guidance radar) and the all-american THAADD upper tier are in the same state of development and will be superior to any variant of the S-400 for some time.

    Russia CANNOT have a lead over the US simply because for the past 20 years their work hs been completely unfunded, their best people have immigrated, and the extremely sophisticated facilities for this work have not been maintained. There’s a reason why the russians partnered with the Indians, after all… Semiconductor and electronics manufacturing in russia is zero. Their foreign orders are simply enhancements of what as existed in Soviet times – the T-90 tank for instance is but a modernized T-72B with French fire control systems – the russian thermal sights failed in the heat…

    The key thing is to not give russians the petro-dollars to recover. They must be kept down – as consumers of BMWs and TVs, but NOT as producers of anything other than raw materials. The West absolutely must find alternatives to buying their oil and gas. Conservation, solar, nuclear, fusion – I don’t care; the point is we have an opportunity to keep them down perpetually… Another 15 years of what they had in the 90s and russia will be third world technologically, politically, as well as morally.

  15. Yes Russia has exceptional missles, but for some reason they do not hit their targets.


    They are not so exceptional that the Russian people can eat them.

  16. Folks, talk of missile by dilettantes is silly and vaguely Freudian. Russian missiles hit targets fine, the Tochka (Точка) short-range missile hit Georgian positions successfully in the recent conflict. Russian spacecraft also continue to work as they always had. Designing a high-performance missile system for a modern country is a matter of financing, not technology.

    The key here is that while the russians, even in the cash-strapped 90s, spent money on the Topol-M systems while ignoring the basic needs of their army and navy. One of the characteristics of a Soviet citizen is the extreme inferiority complex he/she has. The soviets went to an extreme to show the world just how successful they were, and a lot of the tech they developed served that purpose. After all, they could put a man in space, make solid space stations, yet they couldn’t build a decent automobile for their people…

    By pouring money into ballistic missile dev, russians ultimately lose. ICBMs do not win wars; existing missile systems in russia are fine for assuring MAD parity with the US for many more years. However, unprofessional army servicemen, poor conditions, old terrestrial equipment – these are the things that the West needs to exploit.

    Georgia was thought to be an excellent place to have a showdown with a portion of the russian army. Unfortunately, the Georgians are even poorer than the russians in modern conflict, and the half-hearted support from the West does nothing. The Bush administration does not give the conflict with russia enough priority, all of our resources are spent on Iraq… After all, how could have Saaka invaded Georgia without our consent? Why, then, would we have given consent for the Georgians to fight being so ill-prepared????

  17. U.S. ‘IMPERIALISM’ is based on supporting democracy around the world. A far cry from Russian imperialism, which is about invading and conquering your neighbors, then unleashing the looters and why not a little raping and pillaging, it’s good for the troops morale. To equate the Russian invasion of Georgia to the U.S. invasion of Iraq is down right moronic. I can say from experience that the U.S. military is appreciated most places, and leave when asked. Such as the pullout of Thailand in 1975, (of which I participated) and Phillipines in early 90s. There’s a reason the eastern European coutries are scrambling to get into NATO, to protect them from the Russian rapist, such as what happened in Germany after WWII. A fact that is never spoke of in Russia, along with thousands of other atrocities committed by the Soviet’s who were dominated by Russia. Some people never learn right from wrong, it’s a simple concept which starts with the ‘golden rule’. In Russia that must mean “do unto others before they do unto you”.

  18. US Imperialism is based on furthering US interests throughout the world. No more and no less. Sometimes, it means supporting un-democratic and despotic regimes, if that’s what it takes. If you renember the 70-s so well, Bill, how come you don’t mention US support for Pinochet in Chile? Was he “democratic” when he had thousands of his countrymen killed? What about the other wackos in african and s. america we supported over the years? Apartheid s. africa comes to mind…

    The other problem is, you, like many Americans, no nothing about russia or its recent history. Russians (soviets, actually) did not perpetrate atrocities in eastern europe after WW2. Communism in europe was certainly unpleasant, but the russians themselves suffered as much as anyone. Do not forget that the baltic countries and ukraine – places that were reoccupied by soviet forces after the war – SUPPORTED Hitler… Ukrainians had JOBS in the death camps, Lithuanians FOUGHT in the SS… Did your family suffer in the Holocaust, Bill? ‘Cause mine sure did. Executing the “Forest Brothers” – Лестные Братья – baltic groups that fought the USSR and supported Hitler – after the war is not a crime, nor is it an atrocity.

    The other thing is, Bill, around the same time when your buddies were executing villagers in Vietnam, the soviets were marching through Czechoslovakia. I don’t see america being any better or even different here.

    You mention that American troops were appreciated in most places… That’s just plain funny. Were marines appreciated in the carribean in the first half of last century? Appreciated in south america? Why then do the Iraqis want us out now? Is it because we gave them a “better life”? Don’t be ridiculous, and don’t talk about countries you know nothing about… You make claims regarding what is and isn’t talked about in Russia today that are blatantly wrong. I am from russia, I am an American, and yes, I DO talk about these things with russians. If you knew the language, knew the people, you’d realize you’re wrong, but you don’t… So pipe down in the meantime.

    While you’re at it, consider thanking a russian or two that their fathers and grandfathers sacrificed their lives such that your buddies and fathers didn’t have to go into Nazi Germany until AFTER the majority of the german army was shot up and destroyed in Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk.

    Crackers talking about russia is ridiculous.

  19. Vadim,
    U.S. interests around the world benefit the world as a whole (at least the non-criminal world). Things like open sea lanes, the free flow of trade and open democratic governements. Democracies don’t invade their neighbors. Doing business creates wealth and opportunity, I guess being a Russian you don’t see the connection. Your right, I don’t speak the Russian language, but I have done some reading. Also spent 20 years in the U.S. Air Force, and have known people from just about every where. Of the millions of GI’s that have been stationed overseas, the vast majority were appreciated instead of feared. Sure you can find a few rare cases. Just like you can find cases of us on the same side as undemocratic countries, someone realized you can’t change the world over night, just like we have trade with China, with the hope of influencing their system to change to democracy, at least that’s the hope, but things don’t always work the way we would like. But to say the Soviets didn’t commit atrocities in Germany, I guess it was American GI’s in the Russian zones dressed in Russian uniforms, speaking Russian and raping all those German women, of which hundred’s of thousands committed suicide. Hitler and Stalin and their tyranical idea’s deserved each other in WWII, and I don’t see how my family not being affected by the holocaust has anything to do with this discussion. You are right in saying the western allies would have never set foot on Europe’s shore’s if the German army hadn’t already been significantly weakened by their battle with Russia, they lost at least 75% of men and equipment on the eastern front. Unfortunately for Russia, Stalin’s paranoid purges of his military is what made Hitler think he could win in the east. So, in a way, the stupid communist Stalin brought on the attack. Do you read about the Katyn forest massacre in Russian newspapers today? Do you read about the millions of Ukrainians starved to death in the 30s in the Russian papers? Putin is bringing back Stalin like he was a hero, from what I’ve read. I’m sure there are some people talking about things, but Russia doesn’t admit in public or let stories surface in Putin’s Russia, or am I wrong there too? I would hope we could have a civil discussion without name calling. We have a saying, “everyone has an opinion, like everyone has an asshole”.

  20. Bill,

    I apologize for the slur, and yes, I am aware of the saying. Being American, I can see that while promoting free trade, creating wealth and opportunities is great, I do not for a minute believe talk of democracies not fighting democracies. We have fought many countries to further our interests, we simply do not call them democracies! Our aggression in Serbia is certainly an example.

    Firstoff, I DO read about the massacre of Polish soldiers in Poland in 1940 (in russian media today), if that’s one incident you’re referring to! In fact there is a lot of research going on that may confirm that the murder was Goebble’s ploy, and the Poles have recently started doing work on their own that has not officially disproved that theory! Do not believe everything you read on wikipedia, Bill, this story is not over.

    The hundreds of thousands of german women raped in Berlin is a myth – it has been disproven, and NO ONE has ever claimed that “hundred’s of thousands committed suicide” (quoting you). Atrocities occurred during the war, yes, but seeing what the nazis did in russia it would have been impossible to control. After the war this DID NOT occur, and the standing order in the red army was to execute perpetrators of rape. This was carried out in post-occupation years.

    As far as millions of ukrainians that died in the 30s – Golodomor – yes, it is an extremely hot topic now in russia, with tensions with the Ukraine and all. Definitely in papers and TV. I can toss you some articles from lenta.ru, but in russian… Funny thing, that golodomor – my father’s born in ukraine, my mother is from russia. Both have family that died in the hunger. The collectivization scheme was lopsided and cruel in the extreme, but it did not single out Ukranians any more than anyone else. Everyone suffered, and that is what the Russians are saying right now.

    Nonetheless, ukrainians served in Галичниа – the ukrainian SS division, and served as armed guards in the concentration camps. Particularly the western ukrainians, the ones that clamor to join NATO most. These are the people we’re trying to help, do not forget this.

    About “stupid communists” and the purges – Hitler wrote about Lebenstraum and Drang nach Osten a decade before the purges. Claiming that the russians brought this on themselves is idiocy. Hitler was going to invade rusia iregardless of purges or not, they needed to protect their oil, and get the ukrainian grain.

    The other thing you have to consider, Stalin is not made out to be a hero in Russia. Certainly not by Putin – he’s not that stupid. Bear in mind that he [Stalin] changed Russia from an agrarian country to a modern industrial power that defeated the Nazis, and created the second nuclear power on earth. This is a big deal – russians really dig the fact that someone made their country feared. Most russians are willing to put up with GULAGs and repressions for order and power. That is something the West will never understand, but it is no one’s concern but their own – indeed people deserve the Czar they have, that is a russian saying as well.

    Bill, I have been a DoD contractor for some time and have had a chance to travel a bit in that capacity. Being on overseas bases – american troops aren’t loved. Anywere. The europeans appreciated them in europe during the cold war – when russian tanks were staring down the Fulda Gap. The Japs too – looking at china and ussr both. Koreans – when NK was a real power. Not anymore – people everywhere are downright hostile, its all about “what you’re doing for me lately”. Many people in south korea view US troops as virtual occupiers – and we created the country and everything in it!!!

  21. Bill, you gotta understand something. I am not russian. I do not live there – hell, I’ve lived longer in DC than I have in moscow. I wish those people, and their country ill. For the way the’ve trated themselves, other, Jews, and so on. But most importantly – because they compete with my country, and have a shot at beating it in the overall scheme of things. However, I do not think we’re any better than them, nor do I think that in similar circumstances we’d act any different. That is key – our interests do NOT match up with the worlds. We exploit third-world countries, we invade if necessary and that is our right – one I work to preserve. Being in the military you have helped preserve that as well. The “democracy” you speak of – its a hoax, its not even valid here at home.

  22. Vadim,
    It’s nice to have a discussion with you, I appreciate another person’s perspective, especially one with foreign experience. I don’t use Wikipedia for a source. I think you have been subject to some propoganda when it comes to the german rapes and the Katyn forest (but I understand you will defend your nationality, and always give them the benefit of the doubt). I don’t doubt that all Russians suffered under the collectivization scheme, but I don’t think there was an area of more concentrated starvation than in the Ukraine. They were particulary hard headed against Stalin’s orders, so I guess they suffered the worst. I was in the Air Force, we were liked a lot more than the Army or Marines, so my experiences might be skewed a bit. We also don’t have near as many people in Europe or Korea as we used to. It could be that our younger generation doesn’t show as much respect as my generation did, the discipline is almost a joke these days, from what I’ve heard.
    Many of the countries basing our troops, the younger generation has benefited from our presence, yet doesn’t understand how, and protests out of ignorance, we have the same idiots at home, they run their mouth because they can, not knowing how fast that could be taken away. I would like to tell them to go run their mouth in Iran, and see what happens.
    May I ask where you live? I live in South Dakota, near the Black Hills. Far away from any big city. A Hick from the sticks.

  23. Hi Bill,

    I actually live in suburban DC, and work for a contractor there. We are an OEM producing hardware for the military (primarily the Army, but selling to the other branches as well), and I’ve had a chance to work with guys getting our stuff up and running, wherever it may be. I never figured I was the military type, but this is as close as one gets and still be a civilian i suppose.

    Believe me, I’m not really biased towards russia or russians – I just don’t feel better than them or anyone else, and try not to delude myself thinking that I or my country have an implicit advantage – morally or otherwise. I do however resent that we’re giving up our money to them and others that do nothing but exist on oil deposits. I firmly believe that energy independence will break these guys – governments like Iran’s, Venezuela, or Russia could not exist in a climate of $25/barrel oil. But that’s neither here nor there.

    As far as the ukraine thing goes, the matter is simply that this region is the breadbasket of the ussr, and has been that way for some time. Imagine, if you will, the same things happening here – which states would be most affected? It woudn’t be mid-atlantic or the northeast so much – but there would be a lot of problems in places like ohio or the midwest. In a time of agricultural uphevals the farmers get slammed, and ukrainians were and are agrarian. So of course they suffered more.

    Stalin, despite his evils, didn’t take sides – he made the whole country suffer. Modern Ukrainian politicians try to use this issue to their advantage, that is why they are attempting (this year) to equate Golodomor to genocide. This generates a lot of traffic in russian media, btw.

    One thing I do expect in th near term is that countries that are becoming anti-american will realize that the alternatives are a good bit worse – russia, china, or jihad. I am interested in what will happen in W. Europe when they finally ask us to leave, meanwhile having a growing muslim minority that does not even want to remotly integrate themselves in the great EU “brotherhood” of socialist states.

    I think I’m going off on a tangent here, so I’d better stop on this one :-)

  24. Vadim,
    Sorry to hear you have picked up the cynical left wing view point. You’ve lived to long in DC, that’s for sure. You don’t think we would do anything different? Come On…..The U.S. developed the bomb first. We could have chased Russia out of eastern Europe if we were like them, but we didn’t. Truman did chase them out of Iran with a bomb threat, and Ike threatened the Chinese, which ended the Korean war. But to say the U.S. is no better than Russia, and would do nothing different in the same circumstances, is absolutely ridiculous. We’ve done just about everything different, that’s why we have a huge economy, and an effective military, and I am free to own firearms, which I have 10, and know how to use them. Do you think if our guys thought they were just cannon fodder, would they join the military? That’s why Russian’s have to draft, because the average guy knows his life doesn’t mean squat to those in charge. Our military is all about treating the people right and encouraging their education, etc. We don’t take over little coutries and exploit them. Building a factory in India, brings jobs and improves the peoples lives, even if their getting paid less than we would except, it’s still a step up for them. Look at where Japan was 40 years ago, they were the source of cheap labor, same as Taiwan and Korea, now those countries are thriving economies looking for cheap labor somewhere else. You need to move away from the big city and all the America hating liberals, their idiots, like a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. Sure, there is no perfect system, but this one is better than anything else on planet earth, and if that weren’t the case, why are so many people trying to get here?

  25. Heh – me a liberal… That’s funny. Seriously, Bill I don’t buy into that. I don’t even vote democrat… But here’s the thing though – I don’t feel that we have earned our prosperity here for being different or “right”. We eraned it through ruthless exploitation of our natural resources, our immigrant populations, and the fact that we are an ocean away from everyone else except a desert in the south, and frozen tundra in the north. up until recently that distance meant something.

    Incidentally, you can own a gun in russia, too… And living in DC I have two weapons – a P.226 and a blued SKS… Butthat’s not the point either.

    I completely agree with you that we are responsible for the welfare of a number of nations, both in europe and the pacific rim, but it wasn’t particularly good natured. Take the case of the marshall plan – the sole reason that was done was to discourage communism. The russians had their own version of this – some would say it was not successful… But 20 years after the wall fell, East Germans (ossies) have exctreeemly fond memories of the USSR and in fact would welcome that environment once again… Their (and finnish, hungarian, bulgarian, and rumanian) lives were better then than they are now. Want me to toss you results of a poll of Berliners who wish that the Wall was back up? The numbers may surprise you.

    As far as cannon fodder goes, I hear that the military is having trouble meeting its recruitment quotas… The guys getting blown up by IEDs in unarmored humvees probably felt shafted by the Govt. that sent them in harm’s way without thinking through the long-term consequences. I’m not voting for Obama, never will, but it was a Rebublican – Conservative administration that started that operation, was it not? The way I look at it, we get shafted by both sides of the aisle. That makes voting very difficult, mind you.

    I do agree that this is the “worst system on earth, with the exeption of all the others”.

    As far as moving away goes, I have a nice spot in Jackson Hole, WY picked out for myself. One day, I hope…

  26. Hi Vadim,
    Have to disagree with you again, we gained our prosperity from freedom and hard work. Yes, we used our resources, but that’s a no brainer. We’ve cleaned up our messes better than any place else and I don’t see how giving an immigrant a job is exploiting him. He’s better off than he would be otherwise. I guess I was exploited when I was 15 years old and worked for a farmer for 7 dollars a day hauling hay bales. I was at least working and off the street and not causing trouble, and learned some things too. Like they say, it builds character. As far as the recruiting goes, sure it’s harder to recruit a volunteer army when people are getting their asses shot off, that’s why the all volunteer deal really doesn’t work that well with a prolonged war. The Air Force and Navy aren’t having any problems getting top quality recruits, that’s because their REMF’s (rear echelon mother f_ckers). Bush did what he thought was right, and I think history will be very kind to him, because a democratic Iraq in the middle of the despotic middle east will cause more change than anything else we could do, at least that’s the hope. We couldn’t just sit here and wait to be attacked, we had to take the fight to the enemy, and once we were in Iraq, they flocked in to kill the infidels, and we killed them by the bushel, unfortunately there are casualties in war. I’m retiring next year, I work with the Weather Service and hit 56 next year and am calling it quits. Jackson hole’s not that far, maybe we’ll run into each other some day. Take care.

  27. Vadim,
    After some reflection, I’ve convinced myself that you aren’t who you say you are. Every point you made gave Russia and even Stalin the benefit of the doubt, and every subversive communist lie I’ve ever heard about the U.S. was supported by you. You can own a gun in Russia? What are you, an FSB agent? It was interesting having a debate yesterday, but I doubt I could change your mind, and I can assure you, that your arguments did nothing to change my thinking. Best wishes.

  28. Vadim, “Russian missiles hit targets fine, the Tochka (Точка) short-range missile hit Georgian positions successfully in the recent conflict. ”

    Short range, successfully, would you priveledge me with details?

  29. I with a bottle rocket, Short range, and successfully, shot someone in the ass when I was fifteen. True story!

  30. True story, I guess I could have been sixteen.

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