The Russian Quagmire

Posted on June 19, 2007 | 26 Comments

Here’s the essence of the Russian quagmire: Russia ranks #71 in the world per capita income, yet Moscow ranks #1 in the world in cost of living. 70 of the world’s countries are better-positioned to sustain life in Moscow than the place where it actually is located. Britain, which has the #2 most expensive city, has the #12 per capita income. And that’s not even the worst of it, because Britain does a far better job of spreading GDP as salary than Russia does, where oligarchs and an oligarchical state gobble up most of the proceeds, leaving the impoverished population with even less than superficially appears.

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26 responses to “The Russian Quagmire”

  1. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 10:54 am | Reply

    At least, finally, we do agree on something. It’s a shame. And what’s a bigger shame is that illegal or legally gray-area privatisations occured at the beginning of the ’90 in Russia are not likely to be investigated, although this was a strong item in mr Putin’s election campaign.

    To many Russians are have been disappointed in the last years. I personally hope, the next president will really take people’s wellbeing in his hand.

    As Massimo Fini once said in a loose translation: “Nations are becoming progressively richer, while people are falling into poverty at the same pace. Let’s stop competition between nations and think about the people they are composed by”.

  2. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 12:11 pm | Reply

    At least, finally, we do agree on something. It’s a shame. And what’s a bigger shame is that illegal or legally gray-area privatisations occured at the beginning of the ’90 in Russia are not likely to be investigated, although this was a strong item in mr Putin’s election campaign.

    To many Russians are have been disappointed in the last years. I personally hope, the next president will really take people’s wellbeing in his hand.

    As Massimo Fini once said in a loose translation: “Nations are becoming progressively richer, while people are falling into poverty at the same pace. Let’s stop competition between nations and think about the people they are composed by”.

  3. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 12:14 pm | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    If we agree, then perhaps you can answer a question: Why don’t the Russian people hold President Putin accountable for it?

  4. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 1:10 pm | Reply

    As far as I know, some are.

    The majority blames it on Eltsin.

    Some on the oligarchs.

    Some (old people) on Gorbachev.

  5. Anonymous | June 19, 2007 at 1:44 pm | Reply

    Your data is too old. Russian GDP is at least twice bigger in current dollar-to-rouble terms and four times bigger in PPP terms.

  6. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 2:55 pm | Reply

    As far as I know, some are.

    The majority blames it on Eltsin.

    Some on the oligarchs.

    Some (old people) on Gorbachev.

  7. Anonymous | June 19, 2007 at 2:55 pm | Reply

    Your data is too old. Russian GDP is at least twice bigger in current dollar-to-rouble terms and four times bigger in PPP terms.

  8. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 2:59 pm | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    You are utterly demented. The amount of Russia’s GDP has NOTHING to do with this post. What is at issue is the RANK of its PER CAPITA INCOME. It makes no difference whether Russia’s GDP changes unless it changes faster than the countries ranked above it.

    If you have data that shows Russia’s per capita income rank is not #71 but higher than that, THEN LINK TO IT you ape. Your failure to cite alternative data makes you look like a total fool.

    What’s more, you don’t even try to address the point of this post, which is that Russians have far lower personal incomes than any of the other countries with cities among the most expensive, meaning they are least able to afford their expensive city.

  9. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 2:59 pm | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    You are utterly demented. The amount of Russia’s GDP has NOTHING to do with this post. What is at issue is the RANK of its PER CAPITA INCOME. It makes no difference whether Russia’s GDP changes unless it changes faster than the countries ranked above it.

    If you have data that shows Russia’s per capita income rank is not #71 but higher than that, THEN LINK TO IT you ape. Your failure to cite alternative data makes you look like a total fool.

    What’s more, you don’t even try to address the point of this post, which is that Russians have far lower personal incomes than any of the other countries with cities among the most expensive, meaning they are least able to afford their expensive city.

  10. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 3:00 pm | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    In other words, it’s a a nation of morons?

    Maybe they blame Ivan Grozny for Russia’s loss in World War I?

  11. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 3:00 pm | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    In other words, it’s a a nation of morons?

    Maybe they blame Ivan Grozny for Russia’s loss in World War I?

  12. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 4:06 pm | Reply

    You’re using your favourite word again: moron.

    Of course, they wouldn’t be, if they blamed Putin for everything, right?

    Just because YOU think, it’s all his fault, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re right.

    I see your sarcasm, but I cited Gorbachev for older people, like 70-80 years old pensioners, not for the whole Russian population. Does that make a “nation of morons”?

    And you’re to narrow-minded if you think, all the blame can be put on Putin. He certainly has his share, but he’s not the only one.

    I’ll probably receive bad words from you now as a response, and you complain that I don’t compliment you.

    And anyway, if you think Russians are all morons, what do you care about the political situation in Russia? They certainly don’t need YOUR help.

  13. Kaptur | June 19, 2007 at 5:29 pm | Reply

    You’re using your favourite word again: moron.

    Of course, they wouldn’t be, if they blamed Putin for everything, right?

    Just because YOU think, it’s all his fault, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re right.

    I see your sarcasm, but I cited Gorbachev for older people, like 70-80 years old pensioners, not for the whole Russian population. Does that make a “nation of morons”?

    And you’re to narrow-minded if you think, all the blame can be put on Putin. He certainly has his share, but he’s not the only one.

    I’ll probably receive bad words from you now as a response, and you complain that I don’t compliment you.

    And anyway, if you think Russians are all morons, what do you care about the political situation in Russia? They certainly don’t need YOUR help.

  14. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    (a) Moron is not our favorite word. Our favorite word is Russophobe. That is why our blog is called what it is called.

    (b) You’re the one who said Russians blame others for Putin’s failures. That is the act of a moron.

    (c) We didn’t say it is ALL his fault, but he is the president so he bears SOME responsibility yet, by your own admission, Russians give him NONE. Your attempt to twist our words is shameless propaganda and uttelry ineffective. You’re way out of your depth trying such tactics here.

    (d) A nation of morons armed with nuclear weapons and a large supply of oil is a very dangerous prospect, threatening to America’s national security. That’s one reason. Another is that we care about Russian people and don’t want to see them exterminate themselves. Mabye if you see a stupid child playing in traffic you ignore it, but that is a callous Russian attitude. It might be difficult for you to understand, but in the West we try to take steps to solve such problems rather than simply watch people suffer and perish.

  15. La Russophobe | June 19, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    (a) Moron is not our favorite word. Our favorite word is Russophobe. That is why our blog is called what it is called.

    (b) You’re the one who said Russians blame others for Putin’s failures. That is the act of a moron.

    (c) We didn’t say it is ALL his fault, but he is the president so he bears SOME responsibility yet, by your own admission, Russians give him NONE. Your attempt to twist our words is shameless propaganda and uttelry ineffective. You’re way out of your depth trying such tactics here.

    (d) A nation of morons armed with nuclear weapons and a large supply of oil is a very dangerous prospect, threatening to America’s national security. That’s one reason. Another is that we care about Russian people and don’t want to see them exterminate themselves. Mabye if you see a stupid child playing in traffic you ignore it, but that is a callous Russian attitude. It might be difficult for you to understand, but in the West we try to take steps to solve such problems rather than simply watch people suffer and perish.

  16. Kaptur | June 20, 2007 at 12:22 am | Reply

    a) You use MORON to apostrophe people in almost every answer of yours, not RUSSOPHOBE. And of course you’re not going to name you blog “Moron”, are you?

    b) Look who is trying to twist others’ words…I said people are blaming the current difficult situation in Russia on different people and one of them is the country’s president.

    c) Where did I say that noone gives him any responsibility?? Quote my exact words where I said that. Again, you’re the one twisting words. You may actually find me saying that many Russians are disappointed by his way of governing, and not just on this page. By the way, sorry if I understood that you’re accusing Putin of everything, but I’m pretty sure many other people understood the same thing.

    d) Let me understand: Are you saying that common Russian people are armed with nuclear weapons and a large supply of oil? I hope that’s not what you’re saying (I thought of that because you repute Russians to be a nation of morons, and you said that a nation of morons has nuclear weapons and oil). And even if you mean the Russian government, which is a quiet different thing, I’ve never seen or heard the Russian government making threats to the US, except from the last couple of months, when the Russian government felt being threatened by US activity (and anyway it threatened military objectives IN EUROPE, which is quite scary anyway, but what do you care about our problems?) Show me any other instance, apart from both sides’ rhetoric of the last two or three months. So are you basing your convintion of being threatened by Russia on something the US government provoked in the first place?

    And don’t make ma laugh please. You do nothing, but spread hate about everything is Russian. Do you remember your own page on this blog ” Why be a “Russophobe”? You certainly show how much you “care” about Russians on that page! Russia is not getting any better by the hate propaganda on that page!

    If you wanted to do something, you could go to volunteer for any NGO which is REALLY trying to help Russian people, like, for instance, Everychild, which I personally volunteered for. But of course you better enjoy sitting on your butt in front of your screen and doing bla bla on a blog. So don’t even try to tell me how much Russia is benefiting from your activity!

    By the way, I AM a “Westerner”, but luckily not of your kind, full of fake sense of superiority. So don’t try to teach me what is done in the “West”, I’m fully aware of it! And I’d like to know again what steps are you taking. Are saying that Russian cuisine, culture and generally people completely suck your steps? That’s what you do, instead of only criticising the government. It’s kind of sad thinking that people will stop suffering and perishing if you spread hate, stereotypes and misrepresentations about them.

    I could understand if your blog criticised the Russian government and it’s behaviour, but in most of your comments you’ll throw in some hate propaganda against common people who did nothing to you, have never threatened you and your country and just try to make it in their everyday life.

    P.S.: By the way, what annoys me is that we’re becoming a “dispute theater” for the two big guys again, like it was some decades ago. Why don’t you argue somewhere in the Bering Strait and put your own territories at risk, instead of using us as a proxy?

  17. Anonymous | June 20, 2007 at 5:42 am | Reply

    Now I can see that you are a paranoid idiot. You say that “The amount of Russia’s GDP has NOTHING to do with this post” yet your link states exactly the amount of GPD per capita, just look at it closely. And I repeat: it is too old. Learn to behave, your manners give away your Russian origin.

  18. Kaptur | June 20, 2007 at 9:01 am | Reply

    a) You use MORON to apostrophe people in almost every answer of yours, not RUSSOPHOBE. And of course you’re not going to name you blog “Moron”, are you?

    b) Look who is trying to twist others’ words…I said people are blaming the current difficult situation in Russia on different people and one of them is the country’s president.

    c) Where did I say that noone gives him any responsibility?? Quote my exact words where I said that. Again, you’re the one twisting words. You may actually find me saying that many Russians are disappointed by his way of governing, and not just on this page. By the way, sorry if I understood that you’re accusing Putin of everything, but I’m pretty sure many other people understood the same thing.

    d) Let me understand: Are you saying that common Russian people are armed with nuclear weapons and a large supply of oil? I hope that’s not what you’re saying (I thought of that because you repute Russians to be a nation of morons, and you said that a nation of morons has nuclear weapons and oil). And even if you mean the Russian government, which is a quiet different thing, I’ve never seen or heard the Russian government making threats to the US, except from the last couple of months, when the Russian government felt being threatened by US activity (and anyway it threatened military objectives IN EUROPE, which is quite scary anyway, but what do you care about our problems?) Show me any other instance, apart from both sides’ rhetoric of the last two or three months. So are you basing your convintion of being threatened by Russia on something the US government provoked in the first place?

    And don’t make ma laugh please. You do nothing, but spread hate about everything is Russian. Do you remember your own page on this blog ” Why be a “Russophobe”? You certainly show how much you “care” about Russians on that page! Russia is not getting any better by the hate propaganda on that page!

    If you wanted to do something, you could go to volunteer for any NGO which is REALLY trying to help Russian people, like, for instance, Everychild, which I personally volunteered for. But of course you better enjoy sitting on your butt in front of your screen and doing bla bla on a blog. So don’t even try to tell me how much Russia is benefiting from your activity!

    By the way, I AM a “Westerner”, but luckily not of your kind, full of fake sense of superiority. So don’t try to teach me what is done in the “West”, I’m fully aware of it! And I’d like to know again what steps are you taking. Are saying that Russian cuisine, culture and generally people completely suck your steps? That’s what you do, instead of only criticising the government. It’s kind of sad thinking that people will stop suffering and perishing if you spread hate, stereotypes and misrepresentations about them.

    I could understand if your blog criticised the Russian government and it’s behaviour, but in most of your comments you’ll throw in some hate propaganda against common people who did nothing to you, have never threatened you and your country and just try to make it in their everyday life.

    P.S.: By the way, what annoys me is that we’re becoming a “dispute theater” for the two big guys again, like it was some decades ago. Why don’t you argue somewhere in the Bering Strait and put your own territories at risk, instead of using us as a proxy?

  19. Anonymous | June 20, 2007 at 9:01 am | Reply

    Now I can see that you are a paranoid idiot. You say that “The amount of Russia’s GDP has NOTHING to do with this post” yet your link states exactly the amount of GPD per capita, just look at it closely. And I repeat: it is too old. Learn to behave, your manners give away your Russian origin.

  20. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:04 am | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    The link is not to the AMOUNT of GDP it is to the RANK that results. This does not necessarily change when GDP does. If other countries’ GDPs change by the same amount, then rank doesn’t change. Try to think a little before you post, honey, and give yourself a name as we’ve asked. If you can’t follow our rules we won’t post your comment.

    Meanwhile, you total buffoon, you STILL haven’t linked to any more “recent” data. You babble like a helpless drunken child.

  21. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:04 am | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    The link is not to the AMOUNT of GDP it is to the RANK that results. This does not necessarily change when GDP does. If other countries’ GDPs change by the same amount, then rank doesn’t change. Try to think a little before you post, honey, and give yourself a name as we’ve asked. If you can’t follow our rules we won’t post your comment.

    Meanwhile, you total buffoon, you STILL haven’t linked to any more “recent” data. You babble like a helpless drunken child.

  22. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:06 am | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    Please link to published material in which the people of Russia by a majority blame Putin at least partly for the wealth disparity.

    All opinion polls we’ve seen show the public overwhelmingly supporting Putin, by 70-80%. That’s not blame. Meanwhile, you yourself have not said one single critical word about Putin, only that it’s a “shame” generally. You don’t call the “president” personally to account for what happens during his “presidency.” Shame indeed. Shame on YOU!

  23. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:06 am | Reply

    KAPTUR:

    Please link to published material in which the people of Russia by a majority blame Putin at least partly for the wealth disparity.

    All opinion polls we’ve seen show the public overwhelmingly supporting Putin, by 70-80%. That’s not blame. Meanwhile, you yourself have not said one single critical word about Putin, only that it’s a “shame” generally. You don’t call the “president” personally to account for what happens during his “presidency.” Shame indeed. Shame on YOU!

  24. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:26 am | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    According to Wikipedia, using more recent data than Nationmaster, Russia ranks #59 in per capita income whilst Britain ranks #13.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    Britain has the #2 city and Russia has the #1 city in terms of cost of living. This is the same huge gap reflected in our post.

    Referring to PPP is simply stupid. Under that theory, a Russian and an American get the same value from a visit to the doctor even though the American doctor studies twice as long and is paid 100 times more. It’s pure unadulterated garbage.

    Your idiocy is very offensive, and clearly the mark of a Russophile propagandist trying to protect the Putin administration by hiding the truth. You totally ignore our point about Russia having a personal income much lower than any other country with an expensive city, meaning that Moscow imposes a far greater burden on Russia than any other expensive city on its home country, and insteady try to nitpick our data. That’s the silly, childish tactic of the Soviets, and it destroyed the USSR. Keep it up and you’ll destroy Russia too. But then, maybe that’s your goal. If so, why do you hate Russia so much?

    According to Wiki’s more recent data, Russia’s per capita income is behind the impoverished AFRICAN nation of BOTSWANA. But Botswana does NOT posess one of the world’s most expensive cities and force its poor people to live there.

    Meanwhile, Russian poverty results in the net loss of up to 1 million people from the population every year, and you help this to continue. Nice work!

  25. La Russophobe | June 20, 2007 at 9:26 am | Reply

    ANONYMOUS:

    According to Wikipedia, using more recent data than Nationmaster, Russia ranks #59 in per capita income whilst Britain ranks #13.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

    Britain has the #2 city and Russia has the #1 city in terms of cost of living. This is the same huge gap reflected in our post.

    Referring to PPP is simply stupid. Under that theory, a Russian and an American get the same value from a visit to the doctor even though the American doctor studies twice as long and is paid 100 times more. It’s pure unadulterated garbage.

    Your idiocy is very offensive, and clearly the mark of a Russophile propagandist trying to protect the Putin administration by hiding the truth. You totally ignore our point about Russia having a personal income much lower than any other country with an expensive city, meaning that Moscow imposes a far greater burden on Russia than any other expensive city on its home country, and insteady try to nitpick our data. That’s the silly, childish tactic of the Soviets, and it destroyed the USSR. Keep it up and you’ll destroy Russia too. But then, maybe that’s your goal. If so, why do you hate Russia so much?

    According to Wiki’s more recent data, Russia’s per capita income is behind the impoverished AFRICAN nation of BOTSWANA. But Botswana does NOT posess one of the world’s most expensive cities and force its poor people to live there.

    Meanwhile, Russian poverty results in the net loss of up to 1 million people from the population every year, and you help this to continue. Nice work!

  26. Kaptur | June 20, 2007 at 12:12 pm | Reply

    There won’t be that kind of links. But you can try to speak to the people. Not all of them, but at leas some will say they’re disappointed, and basically it’s because Russia’s president promised to the people that illegal privatisations would be investigated, and illegally privatised national wealth taken back and redistributed. But Russian citizens have never witnessed this. And that’s why many of them are disappointed, and feel betrayed to a certain extent.

    As I already said on the “Why to be a russophobe” page, Putin enjoys that kind of support because the dark memories of president Eltsin’s years are still alive in people’s minds. I personally hope, the next president will try to succeed, where the current one failed.

    What I call shame, is that oligarchs have all that wealth that they’ve stolen from the country.

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