- Russians: Unauthentic and Offensive
“Unauthentic and offensive” is how ice skating critic Maggie Hendricks describes them.
The people they are trying to honor, Australian Aborigines, can only gape slack-jawed and remark: ‘They have got the whole thing wrong. Look how stupid these fellas are.”
They’re Russians, of course. Specifically, they are Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin, performing at the European Championships in the so-called “sport” of ice dancing.
Required to celebrate a national culture with one of their routines, the pair painted themselves in the ridiculous, childish, crude and gaudy getups depicted at left, complete with plastic leaves, and made a foreign culture the butt of many jokes.
Nice work, Russians.
Well, I don’t really think they intended to offend the aborigines. Most likely, it’s due to lack of taste
I agree. Do they really think that these leaves sticking out from everywhere are visually pleasing?
RV, you are wrong. Just look at the leaves on their costumes: that’s military camouflage! Clearly, Domnina and Shabalin dressed like this in preparation for the planned Russian military invasion of New Zealand.
Their costumes are totally unauthentic. Here are the real costumes:
http://dragonslayery.blogspot.com/2010/01/aboriginal-dance.html
Sorry to burst your bubble, BUT THE SKATERS THEMSELVES FREELY ADMIT that the costumes are not accurate. Pay a little more attention next time.
Isn’t that exactly what I said:
“Their costumes are totally unauthentic”
Gosh, since you routinely defend and rationalize for Russia, we understood you to be doing so again. If you admit that these costumes are as objectionable as if an American pair bastardized and caricatured Russian traditional dress, then we are happy to apologize for our misunderstanding.
What I am saying is that Linichuk and Karponossov have made a big mistake this season: given that Domnina and Shabalin are reigning World champions, the choice of this unorthodox dance and music is unwise in the Olympic season; and the leaves on the costumes are idiotic and distract form the skating.
Contrast that with Linichuk and Karponossov’s other dance pair: Belbin-Agosto, to whom Linichuk and Karponossov gave the haunting music of Ave Maria and Stabat Mater. If I were Shabalin, I would question his coaches’ decisions.
I don’t follow this sport; I doubt that dancing is even a sports activity in the first place. But I know something about music, and I always thought that Ave Maria was “given” by Schubert (and some versions by other composers) and Stabat Mater by Pergolesi (and some versions by other composers as well). I never heard the name “Karponossov” among those other composers.
The whole topic is silly — that Russian pair lacks taste and the entire thing is just tacky — that’s all there is to say about this
FYI, Linichuk and Karponossov are their coaches. They are the ones that select music and choreography. I should have used “chose” instead of “gave”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennadi_Karponossov
Gennadi Michailovitch Karponossov (Геннадий Михайлович Карпоносов, born in Moscow) is a Russian former competitive ice dancer and current ice dancing coach. Along with his partner, Natalia Linichuk, he was the 1980 Olympic gold medalist and a two-time World Champion. After the 2007/2008 season, they took on two of the top ice dancing teams in the world as their students: Americans Tanith Belbin/Benjamin Agosto and Russians Oksana Domnina/Maxim Shabalin.
[I always thought that Ave Maria was “given” by Schubert (and some versions by other composers) and Stabat Mater by Pergolesi (and some versions by other composers as well). ]
These are not “versions”. These are totally separate and independent compositions intended as traditional religious music:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ave_Maria
Ave Maria (Latin) is a traditional Catholic prayer asking for the intercession of the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus. Ave Maria in Latin has been set to music numerous times. Among the most famous settings is the version by Charles Gounod (1859), adding melody and words to Johann Sebastian Bach’s first prelude from the Well-Tempered Clavier. Antonín Dvořák’s version in 1877, Ave Maria by Giuseppe Verdi for his 1887 opera Otello. Russian composer César Cui set the text at least three times: as the “Ave Maria”, op. 34, for 1 or 2 women’s voices with piano or harmonium (1886), and as part of two of his operas: Le Flibustier (premiered 1894) and Mateo Falcone (1907). Settings also exist by Mozart, Byrd, Elgar, Verdi, Saint-Saëns, Rossini, Brahms, Stravinsky and Perosi as well as numerous versions by less well-known composers, such as J.B. Tresch. Anton Bruckner wrote three different settings. In Slavonic, the text was also a popular subject for setting to music by Eastern European composers. These include Rachmaninov, Stravinsky, Bortniansky and several others. This text was also very often set by composers in the Renaissance, including Josquin Desprez, Orlando di Lasso, and Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina. The much anthologized Ave Maria ‘by’ Jacques Arcadelt is actually a 19th century arrangement by Pierre-Louis Dietsch. Franz Schubert’s Ellens dritter Gesang (D839, Op 52 no 6, 1825) [14] is often performed with the Ave Maria prayer sung in place of the original text; this is misidentified as “Schubert’s Ave Maria”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stabat_Mater
Composers who have written settings of the Stabat Mater include Josquin des Prés, Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina and Giovanni Battista Pergolesi. Joseph Haydn’s Stabat Mater… Others who have written settings are Steffani, Clari, Emanuele d’Astorga, Winter, Raimondi, Vito, Lanza, Neukom, Gioacchino Rossini, Antonín Dvořák, Karol Szymanowski, John Browne, Marc-Antoine Charpentier, Antonio Vivaldi, Charles Villiers Stanford, Charles Gounod, Krzysztof Penderecki, Francis Poulenc, Alessandro Scarlatti (1724), Domenico Scarlatti (1715), Pedro de Escobar, František Tůma, Arvo Pärt, Josef Rheinberger, Franz Schubert, Giuseppe Verdi, Zoltán Kodály, Trond Kverno (1991), Pawel Lukaszewski (1994), Frank Ferko (1999), Salvador Brotons (2000), Hristo Tsanoff, Bruno Coulais (2005), the black metal band Anorexia Nervosa, Karl Jenkins, Stabat Mater (Poulenc), Stabat Mater (Pärt), Stabat Mater (Jenkins)
……………….
Belbin/Agosto dance to Ave Maria by Caccini and Stabat Mater by Rossini.
What do the Aborigines think of this?
Unfortunately, we might see this sort of thing the world over. People think they have a handle on good taste/multiculturalism/ect. only to discover they don’t.
And what an eye-sore the results are!
[What do the Aborigines think of this?]
I suspect that our Andrew will blast Russians for this, as usual.
Other Aborigines? They probably have bigger concerns than whether some figure skaters put green leaves on their costumes.
You don’t have to suspect. An Aboriginal IS QUOTED IN THE POST. It is THEIR objection that is being reported.
Good point. However, are you sure that average Aborigines agree with this “Sol Bellear” character that dancing Aboriginal dances on ice is “yet another example of the Aboriginal people of Australia being exploited”?
Could this Sol Bellear be simply fishing for media attention for himself?
Yes, pretty sure retard, see the article from the telegraph posted below.
Apparently,
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60K46320100121
The Russian world champions were surprised to learn that elders had accused them on Thursday of stealing an Aboriginal dance idea and causing serious cultural offence.
Sol Bellear of the New South Wales state Aboriginal Land Council told Reuters earlier in the day: “It’s very offensive. We see it as stealing Aboriginal culture and it is yet another example of the Aboriginal people of Australia being exploited.”
…………………..
And they have a point here. Dancing folk dances is theft and “exploitation”. Imagine how much outrage there would be if anybody outside of Poland danced a polka, or somebody outside of Argentina danced a tango!
Dancing foreign folk dances is politically incorrect!
Well Arthur, something that the culturally offensive Russian people such as yourself forget is that Aboriginal dance is also a relfection of their religious and cultural beliefs, unlike the Polka, Waltz, or that strange dance you Russians do.
Of course, given the Russian tradition of racism this is not surprising.
If the Russian team had bothered to ask for Aboriginal assistance in devising its routine they would have found them more than happy to assist, like an Australian pair that did the same thing a couple of years ago, gee the Russians stole the idea, what a surprise (not like you are good at coming up with original concepts as a people….)
“Domnina and Shabalin plan to perform the routine at next month’s Winter Olympics in Vancouver.
The routine, complete with ceremonial dance steps and dark-toned bodysuits with “authentic” Aboriginal paint markings and eucalyptus-style leaves in bunches, has deeply affronted indigenous Australians, who complained they were not consulted over the performance.
“I am offended by the performance and so our other councillors,” Bev Manton, chair of the NSW Land Council, told the Sydney Morning Herald.
“Aboriginal people for very good reason are sensitive about their cultural objects and icons being co-opted by non-Aboriginal people – whether they are from Australia or Russia.
“It’s important for people to tread carefully and respectfully when they are depicting somebody else’s culture and I don’t think this performance does.”
Australian ice-skaters were also upset by the Russian’s choice of theme.
Danielle O’Brien and Greg Merriman, from Sydney, first performed an Aboriginal-inspired dance at a Korean competition in 2008. Before deciding on their costume or the details of the routine, the pair spent a year in consultation with the indigenous community to ensure their performance, music and outfits were appropriate and respected Aboriginal culture. The resulting costumes, which incorporated elements of Aboriginal art, was vastly different to the Russians’ interpretation.
Belinda Noonan, an Australian skating commentator, said there was no “integrity” to Domnina and Shabalin’s work.
“Given Danielle and Greg performed their version some time ago, it’s at the very least suspicious where they got their inspiration,” she said.
The music the Russians used to accompany their routine has also raised questions. Ice-skating fans have identified the track as being composed by Sheila Chandra, a Briton of Indian descent.
But Domina, 25, and Shabalin, 27, have denied their motivations for using Aboriginal culture as inspiration for the routine were anything other than honourable.
“We did not want to create another Slavic dance and have considered a lot of options, including Scottish folk,” Domnina told the website GoldenSkate. “But eventually we settled on this one. I thought it was just crazy, but once we have tried it, we immediately fell in love with it.”
Asked about their research of Aboriginal culture, Domnina said: “We’ve watched video clips on the internet of these dances and it is really like this – complete with the leaves around the knees.”
While the routine has its critics, it has impressed the judges. The pair won their national ice dance competition with ease three weeks ago at their first performance of the routine, making them favourites for the Olympic gold.
The routine itself bears little resemblance to a traditional Aboriginal ceremony. Domnina and Shabalin glide across the ice, waving their arms, jerking their bodies and stomping intermittently. Then they execute a complex finale that involves Domnina clambering over Shabalin before performing a moving somersault and ending with both skaters touching noses – perhaps in reference to the traditional greeting of New Zealand’s Maori people.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/iceskating/7044990/Australians-angry-over-Russian-ice-skaters-Aboriginal-routine.html
[Australian ice-skaters were also upset by the Russian’s choice of theme. Danielle O’Brien and Greg Merriman spent a year in consultation with the indigenous community]
I am sure that they indeed spent a year in consultations. Maybe if they instead spent this year learning how to skate, they wouldn’t be quite as pathetic:
http://www.isufs.org/events/cat00006130.htm
World Championships 2008
Final Not Reached
Danielle OBRIEN / Gregory MERRIMAN AUS
BTW, why are Australians and New Zealanders so bad at figure skating? Even the tiny and near-tropical Israel is better.
We play real sports, like Rugby.
Actually Georgians play rugby too, and routinely kick Russia’s arse.
Of course, Russians are just bully boys, and any real sport like Rugby makes them come over all squirmy and looking for the exits….
Oh, and New Zealand are in the Football world cup in South Africa this year, while Russia was eliminated already.
Now where are the Russians in the rowing, or sailing for that matter?
Then there is Judo, oops, Georgian win that.
And so on.
Meanwhile, on the subject of ice skating, Elene Gedevanishvili won bronze for Georgia at the European Championships, and the best bit is that she and her family were deported from Russia in 2006 when the Russian government went on one of its routine racist pogroms against Georgians living in Russia.
Russia has its own great Georgian figure skating heroes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Sikharulidze
Anton Tarielyevich Sikharulidze (born October 25, 1976 in St. Petersburg) is a Russian pair skater. With Elena Berezhnaya, he is the 1998 Olympic silver medalist and 2002 Olympic champion.
But I do feel sorry for Elene Gedevanishvili: it was indeed a horrible cruelty to force her to live to Georgia. No wonder she almost immediately caught one of those illnesses that plague Georgia. Worse yet, there is no competent medical doctors left in Georgia, so her illness went undiagnosed for several month. Luckily, she survived and ran away from Georgia again, this time to New Jersey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elene_Gedevanishvili
Gedevanishvili formerly trained at CSKA Moscow in Moscow, Russia with Elena Buianova and Tatiana Tarasova. At the 2005-2006 Junior Grand Prix event in Estonia, she became the first Georgian skater to win a Junior Grand Prix event. In November 2006, Gedevanishvili was forced to leave Moscow when the authorities claimed that her mother’s visa had been improperly obtained[2]. Shortly thereafter, she contracted a case of whooping cough that went undiagnosed for several months. With these problems, Gedevanishvili withdrew from both of her Grand Prix events. She moved to Wayne, New Jersey to train with coach Galina Zmievskaya. She then moved to train with coaches Roman Serov and Viktor Kudriavtsev.
…………………………………………….
Well my retarded slavic propagandist, Elene loves her country and is proud to represent Georgia at international competitions.
Besides, Georgia does have competent doctors, unlike Russia where they can’t even give anti-tb drugs properly, and have a massive HIV-AIDS epidemic due to doctors re-using needles and other forms of corruption in the health sector.
Intersting to note that Georgians have a much higher life expectancy than Russians too.
I don’t think they’ve meant to offend anyone.
Now here is some traditional Russian music (not the stolen Ukrainian stuff) which I’m sure you will find NO-ONE copying!!!
Now for the finale.. Russia’s answer to the Backstreet Boys: Do you think any of the mothers of these children drank whilst pregnant? I think so!
I don’t understand the lyrics, but it is hard to tell whether it is atrocious or hilarious. Perhaps, both. And we hear on this board about that Great (with the capital G) Russian Culture (with the capital C). Mr. Tchaikovsky is probably turning in his grave
RV,
First of all, I pity you and Eddie for your wasting your lives searching out for bad songs.
Second, I pity you and Eddie for your stupidity, in htat you think that only Russians post bad songs to Youtube.
As you continue your quest for bad songs, you will find millions of laughably bad Youtube songs sung, for example, by Brits and Americans.
And speaking of Tchaikovsky, Rakhmaninov, Moussorgsky etc – yes, Britain is truly unique among major European countries in that it has not contributed a single truly great classical composer. Even tiny Finland has contributed more.
You can find a lot of trash by Americans and others, but Americans never made a claim of being carriers of greatest art and culture. Russians do, all the time, so, I think higher standard should apply to them.
I am not a Brit, but don’t be ridiculous. Haven’t your heard of Handel, Gustav Holst, Ralph Vaughn Williams, Sir Edward Elgar, John Field, Benjamin Britten? Or maybe they are not on the Kremlin-approved list of “truly great” composers
Well said RV, however we must remember that “Arthur” claims to be from the Russian “imtelligentsia” which means the poor wee chap is retarded.
Have pity on him, it’s not his fault.
I don’t even know what to say. He used to claim he was an American, and there is no American adolescent boy or girl who would not know Elgar. No high school graduation ceremony takes place without his “Pomp and Circumstance #1.” Most colleges use that, too
Maybe, the KGB spy school should pay more attention to cultural facts; speaking English is not enough to pass oneself as an American
Sorry Arthur,
The videos I posted are of current, POPULAR Russian music. In fact, Butirka represent the tragic and pathetic Russian male in more ways than you think, singing solely about prison, crime and missing ‘Mama’ with a distinct misogynistic undertone.
Perhaps we can discuss some more contemporary Russian composers who aren’t dead?
You can crap on all you want about ‘intellligentsia’ but the sad fact is, the ratio of ‘intelligensia’ to ‘unintelligensia’ in Russia is off the scale.
PS: Rakhmaninov was a Californian.
After seeing this particular atrocity, I now thing that Mr. Rachmaninoff is also turning in his grave, in addition to Mr. Tchaikovsky.
And yes, Rachmaninoff lived in Beverly Hills for many many years and is buried in L.A.
You, animals, are right: a person’s nationality is that of where he died. Handel was an Englishman, Rakhmanimov was a Californian, Chaplin was Swiss, Lord Byron was a Greek, Joseph Brodsky was a Venetian, Alexander the Great was Babylonian, Marx ans Engels were English, and Leonhard Euler was a Russian.
Oooh, showing his Russian tendency towards neo Nazi pronouncements, what a surprise……
Why would calling a hateful animal like yourself “an animal” be a “neo Nazi pronouncement”?
What do you want? That I use “clown” instead of “animal”? You got it, clown.
Well Arthur, you are the one who is a typical neo nazi (like most “modern” Russian “intelligentsia” one might add).
What the hell ar you talking about, retard?
You, Arthur.
Describing people as “animals” is a typical nazi attitude, and considering that Russians (or should that be RuSSians) are the greatest modern supporters of fascism, well you fit the mould Arthur.
Then there is all your use of Russian racist propaganda, and quotes from idiot magazines like Pravda (of which Goebbels was quite envious I might add)
What’s your problem, Andrea? Your own role model and hero LR calls people “apes” and “animals” left and right. E.g.:
http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/editorial-russians-yearn-to-breathe-partly-free/
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
Please stop lying you wretched, illiterate little animal.
Have you just told us that you consider LR to be a “neo nazi”? Wow.
Andrew, just a small correction. You stated “and ending with both skaters touching noses – perhaps in reference to the traditional greeting of New Zealand’s Maori people.”
The very proud New Zealand Maori people actually touch their foreheads and noses at the same time as a form of traditional greeting.
Actually that was the newspaper article.
As for Maori greetings, you are right, we used to do that at school when practicing cultural awareness and learning traditional Maori songs and dances, such as haka’s while the girls studied poi making and dancing.
To the Maori, anything to do with the head is tapu (sacred) so touching noses and foreheads is a sign of mutual respect.
BTW, I was born and raised in New Zealand.
Andrew wrote:
[BTW, I was born and raised in New Zealand.]
As were and are most other sheep. No surprise there.
Ice skating is serious business.
OK, I’ll write something ACTUALLY “offensive towards the native population” that involves Russian sport – and not only Russian, as this si about Sochi 2014 farce, exactly 150 years after something that happened right there (and this “something” was the end to the war of conquest and genocide).
The Russian imperial government, in an attempt to drive the Turks out of the Caucasus and Black Sea and trying to prevent Britain and France from gaining control over the region, waged a long and violent war against the Caucasian indigenous populations. The Circassians resisted longer than anyone else: the conquest of Circassia took 101 years all in all ending only in 1864 when their last stronghold was defeated in what is today known as Krasnaya Polyana ski resort popular with the Russian leadership.
http://www.circassianworld.com/new/war-and-genocide/1372-circassians-holocaust-in-paradise.html
The Circassian question is closely related to the Sochi Olympics in several symbolic ways. By an irony of history, the 2014 Olympic Games will mark the 150th anniversary of the Circassian defeat in 1864, when, after over a century of fighting, Tsar Alexander II declared victory for Russia. Every year on May 21, Circassians around the world light 101 candles and observe a minute of silence in memory of the 101-year war. Sochi itself was the site of the war’s last battles, and its port was the place from which the Circassians were deported to the Ottoman Empire. Krasnaya Polyana (Kbaada in Circassian), the area that will be the center of the 2014 Olympic Games, was where, on May 21, 1864, a parade of Russian troops celebrated the end of the war with Circassians.
http://www.circassianworld.com/new/general/1382-circassian-dimension-2014sochi-szhemukh.html
“Krasnaya Polana” is apperently named so because of all the blood that was spilled there.
The genocide committed against the Circassian nation by Czarist Russia in the 1800s was the biggest genocide of the nineteenth century. Yet it has been almost entirely forgotten by later history, while everyone knows the later Jewish Holocaust and many have heard about the Armenian genocide. “Rather than of separate, selectively researched genocides, we should speak of a general genocidal tendency that affected many – both Muslim and Christian – people on a wide scene between 1856 and 1956, continuing in post-Soviet Russia until today”, writes Antero Leitzinger.
http://www.circassianworld.com/new/war-and-genocide/1121-circassian-genocide-leitzinger.html
LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS:
Actually, it IS very serious. It’s one of the things Russians are most arrogant about, so it’s a huge national focal point. And here we see their latent racism being flaunted for all the world to see.
Robert,
US Olympics have been held in places that used to belong to the Native Americans, who all perished in a horrible holocaust caused by the white Anglo invaders, who sold them infected blankets and stole their lands.
Ironically, the 1960 Winter Olympics was held at Squaw Valley. “Squaw” means “woman” in some Native American dialects, and many Native Americans take offence at the American use of this ethnic slur.
Andrew – Dear Kiwi friend, I mean no disrespect to you in my reply! As I believe that your articles are credible and to the point whenever you reply – keep up the excellent work, you are an asset to La Russophobe!
By the way I have a very soft spot for your country and the Maori nation. One of my fondest memories is the two weeks my wife and I spent in beautiful North Island – next cab off the rank will be South Island. Cheers mate!
No offence taken at all, in fact I congratulate you on your knowledge!
My family are from the South Island, and I can firmly recommend a trip to fiordland, and particularly to the glowworm caves at Te Anau.
Then there is the Queenstown region in the Southern alps in Otago, and of course the vineyards of Marlbourough and the whale watching off Kaikoura!!
Have fun!!
RV wrote:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85w3X_AxCQ4&feature=related]
These two groups represent a style of songs called “outlaw music” or “chanson”. It is somewhat related to the American country music. While country music is usually about the lives of poor people in the rural areas, chanson is about the lives of urban underclasses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_chanson
Russian chanson (from French “chanson”) is a neologism for a musical genre covering a range of Russian songs based on the themes of the urban underclass and often criminal underworld. This song style, called blatnaya pesnya (“criminals’ song”), has been popular in Eastern Europe ever since its first appearance in the beginning of the 20th century. Chanson can be seen as one of two genres stemming from 19th century Russian city romance songs (русский городской романс), the other genre being the author song. The two genres are now quite distinct, but have overlapped significantly throughout the 20th century.
The earliest criminal songs in this style largely came about due to the crumbling Tsarist regime, but the style has changed significantly after the rise of Stalin, when both innocents and criminals were massacred and sent to labor camps. Yet another change occurred during the Khrushchev Thaw, when the songs from the camps started reaching the public, performed by artists like Arcady Severny and Vladimir Vysotsky. Lyrically, Chanson songs are usually narrative-driven and are more similar to ballads than pop songs. In fact, this is one of the reasons for naming the genre after the French Chanson (the other being musical similarity).
……………………
The nmaes of these two groups tell you all: “Butyrka” is the name of the most notorious prison in Moscow, while “Vorovaiki” is Ukrainian for “thievettes”, “little female thieves”.
[I don’t understand the lyrics]
Of course, you don’t. Pompous fools never comment on subjects that they understand.
[but it is hard to tell whether it is atrocious or hilarious. Perhaps, both]
It is virtually impossible to translate poetry well, but here is a rough Google translation:
Little Lad – by Butyrka
Who said this is the end?
This little lad is still alive!
Only he is in in the cage now, this youth is a convict now.
All you do is wave your fingers
And dole out harsh sentences, as a lesson to others.
The Law had sentenced this lad to GULAGs,
Where he can cry or he can howl like a wolf.
What do you care about the fate others!
You are not humans, you are executioners!
He grew up in an orphanage, his whole life completely screwed up
But as the years pass by, he will keep his dignity.
He’ll lend you money, he will never sell out friends.
But as of now, to you – he is simply just another inmate.
What do you care about the fate others!
You are not humans, you are executioners!
…………………..
This is the kind of tragic songs and lyrics that the lower classes in Russia like. You won’t like these lyrics. here is a typical American song classic that you will like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musique_(Patrick_Adams)
http://www.answers.com/topic/musique
Musique (Patrick Adams)
Musique was a studio project by Patrick Adams, best known for the song, “In the Bush”. It consisted of four singers, Christine Wiltshire, Angela Howell, Gina Tharps and Jocelyn Brown. Musique reached the mainstream popularity thanks to their suggestive 1978 single “In the Bush.” The song became a surprise hit.
“In the Bush”
Lyrics
Push, push in the bush (Say are you ready too)
Push, push in the bush (You know I like to jump)
Push, push in the bush (You know I want to get down)
In the bush, in the bush (I like it)
In the bush, in the bush (Yeah, yeah, I like it, I like it)
In the bush, in the bush (I like it)
In the bush, in the bush [Get down, get down]
In the bush, in the bush [Oh... get down, get down]
In the bush, in the bush (I like it) [Yeah... hea...]
In the bush, in the bush (I said I like this, yeah)
In the bush, in the bush [Oh... ho... ho...]
In the bush, in the bush [I said I want it]
In the bush, in the bush
In the bush, in the bush (Are you ready for this) [You like it]
In the bush, in the bush (Ooh)
In the bush, in the bush (Are you ready for this)
In the bush, in the bush (Sock it to me, sock it to me)
Ow, we like it, we like it
……………………
Thanks Arthur,
I’m now convinced the Russian male is just misunderstood.
Regards,
Wal
Wal,
To be honest, I don’t give a hoot what a slimy ignorant russophobe is or is not convinced of. You already came to this group as an ignorant bigot, and y nothing with move you.
To wit, your remark to a lady who wrote to find out a recipe for her favourite Russian cookies:
Wal // September 25, 2009 at 10:37 pm
[I hate to break it to you Corey but the delectable ‘grey pastries’ you consumed were actually 3 month old frozen pierogi covered with fungus. ]
FYI, retard, pierogi are a Polish dish. The Russian potstickers is called pelmeni, and Ukrainian – vareniki.
Let me express understanding of the sensitivities of Australian and New Zealand Aboriginees. Their main contact with Europeans was with the English – the nation that has spread death and slavery to tens of millions of locals all over the World.
As the result of the English occupation, the vast majority of Aborigines were dead, and their lands stolen by the English:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians
British colonisation of Australia began with the arrival of the First Fleet in Botany Bay in 1788.
A small pox epidemic, which is believed to have been introduced by the macassans [20] is estimated to have killed up to 90% of the local Darug people in 1789 and has often been attributed to be caused by white settlers.
A consequence of British settlement was appropriation of land and water resources, which continued throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries.
During the 1860s, Tasmanian Aboriginal skulls were particularly sought internationally for studies into craniofacial anthropometry. Truganini, the last Tasmanian Aborigine, had her skeleton exhumed within 2 years of her death in 1876 by the Royal Society of Tasmania, and was later placed on display. Campaigns continue to have Aboriginal body parts returned to Australia for burial.
By 1900 the recorded Indigenous population of Australia had declined to approximately 93,000.
As opposed to the RuSSians who brought death and slavery to millions in the 20th century alone (killing around 61,000,000 people as a mid range estimate) and are universally reviled in their former slave states, the UK is actually remarkeably popular in its former empire, just look at the countries that make up the commonwealth.
By the way, Britain was the driving force behind the ABOLITION of slavery my retarded Russian gimp.
The Royal Navy was foremost in the interdiction of the slave trade at a time when in Russia serfs were still the personal property of the land owner.
Whereas Russia was its foremost proponent until around 1991.
By the way, the largest collection of shrunken Maori heads is in the Hermitage in St.Petersburg.
Now lets compare the fate of indiginous populations in Russia, like the Circassians, the indiginous tribes of Siberia etc, who were the subjects of genocidal campaigns by Russians in the 19th centuries. Real genocide that is, mass deportations, mass killings etc.
Try again Arthur.
Andrew,
You are spamming off-topic again. This thread is about how Russian skaters hurt the highly painful feelings of the Australia Aboriginees, and why the Aboriginees are so sensitive when Europeans attempt to dance their dances.
And this reason is: because more than 90% of Aboriginal people died as the result of the English conquest, the Brits treated them like zoo animals, and the English stole their lands.
Now Arthur, its not like the British deliberately infected the Aboriginal population with smallpox. This is a terrible tradgedy yes, but not deliberate.
However compared to the Circassian genocide which was a deliberate attempt by Russia to exterminate the indiginous population by murder and deportation from their native lands, Russia (and Russians) once again shoes its true evil nature.
Andrew,
Look, this is not the place to discuss whether Brits and other colonial powers were justified in exterminating, robbing and/or enslaving Native Americans, Aborigines, Africans, Indians, etc.
Here we are discussing why the Aborignees are so bitter at Europeans that they lash out even at those figure skaters who skate to their music. And clearly, this is because of the English.
Even if you are right, and the British never mistreated or stole any land from the Aborigines and instead of sorrow, the Aborigines should be honoured to have been mistreated by the “great” and “superior” English people, who robbed them because they felt the “White Man’s Burden” – still there is no doubt that if the British had never occupied Australia, the Aborigines wouldn’t be upset at others’ dancing their dances, would they?
Oh Arthuretta,
The aboriginies would be upset anyway, because as previously noted, these dances convey their spiritual beliefs and culture.
Yes the British did things wrong in the colonisation of Australia, but the difference is that they were not deliberately attempting to exterminate the native population, and their attitudes evolved over time to the point where they became focused on preserving the varied cultures within the empire they had created.
Compare this, as I have previously said, with Russian deliberate and planned genocide against its ethnic minorities, and the repulsive programme of “Russification” that continues to this day.
Andrew,
Are you saying that the English never “anglicised” the ir colonised peoples like Scots, Welch and Irish?
Compare that to Georgians, Latvians, Uzbeks and all others who happily speak their own languages, even after centuries of the Russian colonial rule.
No, I am saying that the English learnt from their mistakes, and that the revival of the Irish, Welsh, and Scottish languages was a central plank of Gladstones government programmes in the late 19th century.
Meanwhile, the Russian attempt to eradicate minority languages was a long process.
The Georgian language was in danger of complete dissapearance until the late 19th century when Georgians revived it under the tutelage of leaders such as Ilya Chavchavadze, as a sign of resistance to Russian rule.
Under the Tsarist system, Georgian was banned from public life, including schools, Churches, and government institutions.
Under the Soviet system Georgian was tolerated, but the Russian language was required for higher education and anything other than labouring jobs.
A simple look at any soviet era building that has been left untouched will show you all signs are in Russian, not Georgian.
The Georgians, Ukrainians, Uzbeks etc all speak their native languages DESPITE the Russian colonial policy, rather than because of it.
“[edit] Late 1950s to 1980s: Advanced Russianization
[edit] 1958-59 education reform: parents choose language of instruction
An analysis of textbook publishing found that education was offered for at least one year and for at least the first class (grade) in 67 languages between 1934 and 1980.[16] However, the educational reforms undertaken after Nikita Khrushchev became First Secretary of the Communist Party in the late 1950s began a process of replacing non-Russian schools with Russian ones for the nationalities that had lower status in the federal system or whose populations were smaller or displayed widespread bilingualism already.[17] Nominally, this process was guided by the principle of “voluntary parental choice.” But other factors also came into play, including the size and formal political status of the group in the Soviet federal hierarchy and the prevailing level of bilingualism among parents.[18] By the early 1970s schools in which non-Russian languages served as the principal medium of instruction operated in 45 languages, while seven more indigenous languages were taught as subjects of study for at least one class year. By 1980, instruction was offered in 35 non-Russian languages of the peoples of the USSR, just over half the number in the early 1930s.
Moreover, in most of these languages schooling was not offered for the complete 10-year curriculum. For example, within the RSFSR in 1958-59, full 10-year schooling in the native language was offered in only three languages: Russian, Tatar, and Bashkir.[19] And some nationalities had minimal or no native-language schooling. By 1962–1963, among non-Russian nationalities that were indigenous to the RSFSR, whereas 27% of children in classes I-IV (primary school) studied in Russian-language schools, 53% of those in classes V-VIII (incomplete secondary school) studied in Russian-language schools, and 66% of those in classes IX-X studied in Russian-language schools. Although many non-Russian languages were still offered as a subject of study at a higher class level (in some cases through complete general secondary school – the 10th class), the pattern of using Russian language as the main medium of instruction accelerated after Khrushchev’s parental choice program got under way.
Pressure to convert the main medium of instruction to Russian was evidently higher in urban areas. For example, in 1961-62, reportedly only 6% of Tatar children living in urban areas attended schools in which Tatar was the main medium of instruction.[19] Similarly in Dagestan in 1965, schools in which the indigenous language was the medium of instruction existed only in rural areas. The pattern was probably similar, if less extreme, in most of the non-Russian union republics, although in Belarus and Ukraine schooling in urban areas was highly Russianized.[20]
[edit] Doctrine catches up with practice: sblizhenie-sliyanie (rapprochement and fusion of nations)
The promotion of federalism and of non-Russian languages had always been a strategic decision aimed at expanding and maintaining rule by the Communist Party. On the theoretical plane, however, the Communist Party’s official doctrine was that eventually nationality differences and nationalities as such would disappear. In official party doctrine as it was reformulated in the Third Program of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union introduced by Nikita Khrushchev at the 22nd Party Congress in 1961, although the program stated that ethnic distinctions will eventually disappear and a single lingua franca would be adopted by all nationalities in the Soviet Union, “the obliteration of national distinctions, and especially language distinctions, is a considerably more drawn-out process than the obliteration of class distinctions.” At the present time, however, Soviet nations and nationalities were undergoing a dual process of further flowering of their cultures and of rapprochement or drawing together (сближение – sblizhenie) into a stronger union. In his Report on the Program to the Congress, Khrushchev used even stronger language: that the process of further rapprochement (sblizhenie) and greater unity of nations would eventually lead to a merging or fusion (слияние – sliyanie) of nationalities.[21]
Khrushchev’s formula of rapprochement-fusing (sblizhenie-sliyanie) was moderated slightly, however, when Leonid Brezhnev replaced Khrushchev as General Secretary of the Communist Party in 1964 (a post he held until his death in 1982). Brezhnev asserted that sblizhenie would lead ultimately to the complete “unity” (единство – yedinstvo) of nationalities. “Unity” was an ambiguous term because it could imply either the maintenance of separate national identities but a higher stage of mutual attraction or similarity between nationalities, or the total disappearance of ethnic differences. In the political context of the time, sblizheniye-yedinstvo was regarded as a softening of the pressure toward Russification that Khrushchev had promoted with his endorsement of sliyanie.
The 24th Party Congress in 1971, however, launched the idea that a new “Soviet people” (Советский народ) was forming on the territory of the USSR, a community for which the common language – the language of the “Soviet people” – was the Russian language, consistent with the role that Russian was playing for the fraternal nations and nationalities in the territory already. This new community was labeled a people (народ – narod), not a nation (нация – natsiya), but in that context narod implied an ethnic community, not just a civic or political community.[22]
Thus, until the end of the Soviet era, a doctrinal rationalization had been provided for some of the practical policy steps that were taken in areas of education and the media. First of all, the transfer of many “national schools” (национальные школы) to Russian as a medium of instruction accelerated under Khrushchev in the late 1950s and continued into the 1980s.[23]
Second, the new doctrine was used to justify the special place of the Russian language as the “language of internationality communication” (язык межнационального общения) in the USSR. Use of the term “internationality” (межнациональное) rather than the more conventional “international” (международное) focused on the special internal role of Russian language rather than on its role as a language of international discourse. That Russian was the most widely spoken language, and that Russians were the majority of the population of the country, were also cited in justification of the special place of Russian language in government, education, and the media.
At the 27th CPSU Party Congress in 1986, presided over by Mikhail Gorbachev, the 4th Party Program reiterated the formulas of the previous program:
Characteristic of the national relations in our country are both the continued flourishing of the nations and nationalities and the fact that they are steadily and voluntarily drawing closer together on the basis of equality and fraternal cooperation. Neither artificial prodding nor holding back of the objective trends of development is admissible here. In the long term historical perspective this development will lead to complete unity of the nations….
The equal right of all citizens of the USSR to use their native languages and the free development of these languages will be ensured in the future as well. At the same time learning the Russian language, which has been voluntarily accepted by the Soviet people as a medium of communication between different nationalities, besides the language of one’s nationality, broadens one’s access to the achievements of science and technology and of Soviet and world culture.”
So as we can see, the pressure on their native languages, and the continuing attempts Russify the ethnic minorities was one of the major reasons for the collapse of the USSR.
Foe example, the protests that began in Georgia in 1988-89 in favour of independance were provoked by the Soviet governments attempt to make Russian the state language of the republic.
And of course lets not forget the attempt by Moscow to downgrade the status of the Georgian language in 1978, and again in 1981.
So Arthuretta, try again old girl.
Andrew, thanks for that list of places to see in South Island. Have noted them to see on our visit there.
I have to disagree here. I feel the Russian artists are free to do as they wish. If they wish to incorporate a certain dance and alter it to suit their tastes or skills.
The aboriginal dance is not cast in stone. It never was and it never will be. I can guarantee that each tribe performs its with variations.
Some peoples think that they own a culture when it was certainly not they, but others, who developed it and who settled it into some modern form.
Were I the aboriginals, I would thank the artists, even if imperfectly, for bringing attention to their customs and practices. If it is not good enough for them, then let them produce the papers of ownership to such rituals and the attendant copyrights.
Regards,
Gary Marshall
Come on, Gary! If some foreigners ever tried to play or dance a polka or a mazurka – millions and millions of Poles would be demonstrating!
Andrew wrote:
[No, I am saying that the English learnt from their mistakes, and that the revival of the Irish, Welsh, and Scottish languages was a central plank of Gladstones government programmes in the late 19th century.]
Sounds great. I am sure the English were very sincere, and now the peoples of Ireland, Scotland and Wales all speak their native tongues as their first languages. Or do they?
Arthur wrote;
and now the peoples of Ireland, Scotland and Wales all speak their native tongues as their first languages. Or do they?
in Ireland and Wales their languages are on a par with English all signs of any kind are in both languages, both nations teach their Gaelic languages from an early age both have dedicated radio TV stations the Irish parliament conducts much of its business in Gaelic as does the Welsh assembly, Unfortunately Scottish Gaelic is not widely spoken and could be lost.
R John,
It’s too late now. The centuries of British colonisation have murdered the Gaelic language forever. It will never become the main language of Ireland. It will remain as purely as a pointless school subject, like Latin in many catholic and classic schools here in USA, something that students study for their teacher and forget as soon as the class is over.
No matter how the Irish try to revive their own Gaelic language, it is dead and nothing will bring it back. All Irish people – barring a thousand or two – think in English and will never think in Gaelic, ever.
Ditto for the Welch and Scottish people.
As usual Arthur does not know what he is talking about.
Irish
Gaeilge
Spoken in Ireland (Republic of) (538,283)
Canada (Newfoundland) (unknown)
United Kingdom (95,000)
USA (18,000)
EU (Official EU language)
Region Gaeltachtaí, but also spoken throughout Ireland
Total speakers 355,000 fluent or native speakers (1983)[1]
538,283 everyday speakers (2006)
1,860,000 with some knowledge (2006)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_language
However, since Irish is an obligatory subject in schools, many more are reasonably fluent second-language speakers. Furthermore, a much larger number regard themselves as competent in the language to some degree: 1,656,790 (41.9% of the total population aged three years and over) regard themselves as competent Irish speakers. Of these, 538,283 (32.5%) speak Irish on a daily basis (taking into account both native speakers and those inside the education system), 97,089 (5.9%) weekly, 581,574 (35.1%) less often, and 412,846 (24.9%) never. 26,998 (1.6%)
Irish is a living language, and so is Welsh.
I think both the Irish and Welsh would disagree.
You need to visit and see for yourself
He is incapable of rational thought R John.
Le alone honesty.
I suggest you are correct, if he trots off to Ireland and makes that sort of statement he will get a rather hostile reception.
Most Irish I know speak Gaelic to one degree or another.
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080726230920AAQggH4
Do you speak Gaelic or Irish in Ireland?
In Ireland, Irish as a language is ‘Gaeilge’.
Its spoken daily in Gaeltacht areas but thats only a small % of the population. We learn it in school and its translated everywhere eg. signposts, legal papers etc but its extremely difficult and hardly anyone can speak it properly.
Source(s):
Native Irish person
I’m pretty sure Irish and Gaelic are the same. Most Irish people, as far as I know, speak English though Irish is taught in school as to keep the language alive. During England’s control of Ireland the language was mostly underground and English was the only accepted language.
I think that these are the same thing. Im pretty sure actually. Most people in Ireland speak English though and a small minority of people actually speak Irish.
Only a very small number of people would actually use it in everyday language.
some do although during the english occupation it was banned so most people especially around Dublin speak english as a first language.
English Occupation Of Ireland
In the 12th century English invaders began to lay siege to Ireland. This was to be the start of seven centuries of bitter Anglo-Irish conflict.
http://our-ireland.com/articles/irish-history/history-of-ireland/
History Of Ireland
The occupation and repression of the people gave birth to a sense of Irish nationalism. (Theobald Wolfe tone is noted in the Irish historical annals as being the farther of Irish Nationalism). Ireland’s bloody resistance and struggle against British occupation was bitter and difficult.
There were many Irish rebellions over the centuries, but the one that most dramatically changed the course of Irelands history as an occupied country was the 1916 Easter Rising.
In 1948 Ireland withdrew from the British Commonwealth, and in 1973 the Republic of Ireland joined the European Community, finally taking it’s place among the nations of the world.
Arthur your 16 lines of Irish history from the 12th century to 1948 was a “really” fascinating read, I am sure it kept the readers on this site enthralled, your in-depth analysis of Anglo/Irish relations should be published it could well be “the definitive” historical evaluation of this complicated cultural religious political relationships. Well done Arthur a master’s degree is winging its way to you as we speak.
R John,
The 16 short lines of quotes from various Irish people describing the fate of their language are not meant as a dissertation on Ireland. However, they are much more knowledgeable than your own ignorant posts on Russia.
Andrew there’s an old saying,
“you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink”
Russian Arthur is that “Horse”
Arthur, RaSSiyan influence, such as language and Kremlin Crime Organizations have become intolerable on countries in the neighborhood.
Having RaSSiyan language is not endearing since there are native languages that are older and more evolved and local.
English is being studied nowadays as it is more Universal. Rasha and it’s language and culture so hated by its neighbors is being Sh!t Canned.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=100181025
Arthur accuses me of being “ignorant”
Well lets take a look at the quality of posts made on this site from the holier than thou Arthur.
On January 23rd I posted
Our female tennis players are woeful; Andy Murray has half a chance of winning a grand slam, but for us that’s about it.
Holier than thou Arthur retorted on January 24th
You should blame it on Putin. Accuse him of poisoning your tennis players with Polonium and demand extradition.
Now I will leave it to the reader to evaluate the intelligence and character of our Mr. Arthur. After this evaluation you may decide like me to treat this buffoon with the contempt he so richly deserves.
The stupidity of russophobes here is a good illustration of the trivial fact that xenophobia is the product of inferior minds.
Buffoon;
One who makes course, rude, or inappropriate comments
11th September 2001 was an inside job
Serves the Yank baboons right, whoever the perpetrators were. May there be many more suchlike “fireworks” — the more fatalities, the better.